Let the hate fly, but I still say Bioware should allow you to change your AC

[Spatology]

How does anyone know that they hate their AC if they just want to pay money to switch and dont actually play the other classes.

 

Also, if they have lower level alts, it would behoove them to finish the leveling process to gain some understanding of the new class.

 

Assumeing people wont stay because they cant magically change their character even when they dont actually or never had the opportunity to change them in the past makes me wonder about the legitimacy of this entire thread.

 

Hypothetically speaking, i could make the same statement about mounts having flying capabilities.

[shadowrouge]

Don't really care one way or the other any more. What the hell give it to them make it a 25OO CC cost and

"A ONE TIME CHANGE PER CHAR. PER ACCOUNT" in other words you pay for it for One toon and do the change. Never will you be able to use this again for that character on that account.

 

Does two things. 1} gives those that want it the chance to do it. Cost a butload so they better think about it.

2} once you have done it there is NOW no going back. This will prevent people from buying AC switch to meet the flavor of the month that surely happens with each class tweek.

 

Just my two cents

[Uruare]

The only way I'd say Bioware should allow this is if you have both advanced classes at max level, so say you have a lvl 55 assassin and a lvl 55 sage. You could then change your Sin to a Sorc or the other way round for the sage - turning him into a shadow.

 

This way you have experience in both classes and you aren't just thrown into a brand new world with absolutely no idea what you're doing and ruining everybody else's experience in the process.

 

And to further make sure that in-case you have no idea what you're doing you should have a stamp beside your name for a few months indicating you have had an AC change as a warning for those playing with you.

 

Considering that one can effectively master any given class in mere hours if they sit down and mean to, marking someone 'for months', or at all, would be less a thing motivated by anything resembling sense and more a thing motivated by pure, unmitigated desire to punish.

 

That is, in any event, all such a doing would accomplish. There's exactly nothing that someone suddenly playing a Gunslinger from a Scoundrel wouldn't be able to go wander around doing their dailies one good time and learn. Someone paying $10-20 USD for an AC change would probably also have the motivation to maybe ask about rotations, or google it, or even look on this very forum's class sub-forums and read up on their new AC.

 

I sincerely doubt the community would up and implode, or probably very much notice, in any case.

 

Certainly not enough to go branding people with your digital equivalent of some sort of scarlet letter for daring to impugn something.

[Spatology]

Don't really care one way or the other any more. What the hell give it to them make it a 25OO CC cost and

"A ONE TIME CHANGE PER CHAR. PER ACCOUNT" in other words you pay for it for One toon and do the change. Never will you be able to use this again for that character on that account.

 

Does two things. 1} gives those that want it the chance to do it. Cost a butload so they better think about it.

2} once you have done it there is NOW no going back. This will prevent people from buying AC switch to meet the flavor of the month that surely happens with each class tweek.

 

Just my two cents

 

I really like this idea honestly. A money maker for bioware, and a "no going back" type restriction.

 

If you are really not willing to level another character and must change your AC, i will laugh when you dont "like" it either and come back to cry.

[Uruare]

I really like this idea honestly. A money maker for bioware, and a "no going back" type restriction.

 

If you are really not willing to level another character and must change your AC, i will laugh when you dont "like" it either and come back to cry.

 

Emphasis mine.

 

You're really just looking for an excuse to punish then. Be honest; you don't like the idea at all, but you do like the idea of inflicting your idea of 'the right way to play' onto others for, as far as I can tell, no reason at all beyond a desire to turn your lip up and sneer at them when they sometimes find it less comfortable or likeable than you yourself do.

 

Your demonstrated logic and system of reasoning obviates this. Don't bother attempting refutation unless you'd like to also be dishonest, as well as malicious.

[Spatology]

Considering that one can effectively master any given class in mere hours if they sit down and mean to, marking someone 'for months', or at all, would be less a thing motivated by anything resembling sense and more a thing motivated by pure, unmitigated desire to punish.

 

That is, in any event, all such a doing would accomplish. There's exactly nothing that someone suddenly playing a Gunslinger from a Scoundrel wouldn't be able to go wander around doing their dailies one good time and learn. Someone paying $10-20 USD for an AC change would probably also have the motivation to maybe ask about rotations, or google it, or even look on this very forum's class sub-forums and read up on their new AC.

 

I sincerely doubt the community would up and implode, or probably very much notice, in any case.

 

Certainly not enough to go branding people with your digital equivalent of some sort of scarlet letter for daring to impugn something.

 

I disagree, Scoundrels and Gunslingers dont play alot alike.....at all. You might garner the basics, but no type of "mastery" is gained from "doing a couple of hours of dailies"

[Spatology]

Emphasis mine.

 

You're really just looking for an excuse to punish then. Be honest; you don't like the idea at all, but you do like the idea of inflicting your idea of 'the right way to play' onto others for, as far as I can tell, no reason at all beyond a desire to turn your lip up and sneer at them when they sometimes find it less comfortable or likeable than you yourself do.

 

Your demonstrated logic and system of reasoning obviates this. Don't bother attempting refutation unless you'd like to also be dishonest, as well as malicious.

 

I am not looking to punish anyone. The option being available even after they are warned that it is permanent should be reason enough for some form of "punishment". Since you like that word so much when speaking in refrence to a mechanic that would be needed.

 

Since it hasent been glossed over yet, id like to remind people that AC change would devalue the Smuggler/Knight because they cannot fill all 3 roles of the trinity.

 

I think this is the major reason some type of penalty is needed to restrict people from bounceing around all the time.

 

Not some unreasonable hate you have perscribed me.

[micnevv]

Considering that one can effectively master any given class in mere hours if they sit down and mean to, marking someone 'for months', or at all, would be less a thing motivated by anything resembling sense and more a thing motivated by pure, unmitigated desire to punish.

 

That is, in any event, all such a doing would accomplish. There's exactly nothing that someone suddenly playing a Gunslinger from a Scoundrel wouldn't be able to go wander around doing their dailies one good time and learn. Someone paying $10-20 USD for an AC change would probably also have the motivation to maybe ask about rotations, or google it, or even look on this very forum's class sub-forums and read up on their new AC.

 

I sincerely doubt the community would up and implode, or probably very much notice, in any case.

 

Certainly not enough to go branding people with your digital equivalent of some sort of scarlet letter for daring to impugn something.

 

You seem to misunderstand what the word "master" means. Especially since a considerable amount of 55's haven't even come close to mastering their class after months of playing. And let's be honest here - those are the ones who want to have an AC change, the ones who still can't be bothered to learn something new and would rather skip to the end.

 

So would you want a bunch of people who at least know the basics of their class? Or some chickens pressing buttons.

Edited January 12, 2014 by micnevv

[Uruare]

I disagree, Scoundrels and Gunslingers dont play alot alike.....at all. You might garner the basics, but no type of "mastery" is gained from "doing a couple of hours of dailies"

 

All I can say to that is that I've done it umpteen-teen times in this game and others alike. These classes aren't rocket science to play. If you mean to figure them out, even coming cold and utterly unfamiliar into a totally new class should only leave one fumbling for a few hours at most.

 

Granted, if someone's not willing to actually read their powers and doesn't have a good grasp of the game's mechanics to begin with, they're going to suck at their new AC...probably just as much as their laziness and unfamiliarity made them at the one they departed.

 

Preventing AC switching isn't going to make anyone suck less, in short. People that just aren't good at these games, or are lazy, are already not good at their AC and lazy. They're already doing all the damage they're ever going to do playing their Focus Sentinel in Juyo form with their points spread wildly across things that 'sounded neat' in the talent trees and their Rage juggernauts in tank gear that argue vehemently that shields are broken because they won't read anything but WILL argue with anyone that tries to tell them different.

 

The people that are running around as a level 32 shadow and begging for help to complete their class mission, only for it thence to be found that they're in level 16 gear and angrily refuse to switch their lightsaber because the one they've got is PRETTY?

 

They're not going to get smarter if they're prevented from giving Bioware almost-free money to be just as foolish on another AC.

 

So, this argument's kinda...got nowhere to go, ya know? All the stupid's already stupiding it up. AC swapping won't make anyone stupider than they already are, but it WILL give a probably-considerable number of people incentive to help fund this game even further and drag some alts they abandoned out of mothballs, or to turn that Sentinel they hate playing into a Guardian so they can do some Guardian tanking instead of just Shadow tanking all the time.

 

I'd predict that the vast majorities of users for such a feature would know exactly what they were getting themselves into and have little to no problems dealing with the consequences of quite possibly needing to regear, no longer qualifying for wearing certain set pieces and so on.

 

I sincerely doubt anyone with gear specialized enough to worry about it is going to also be so stupid as to not know that their smug healer gear isn't the right stuff for going slinger anything.

 

And if someone is derpy enough to stick themselves in such a position as that they somehow have no gear and they've switched classes and oh woe is them? (An actually impossible circumstance, I think)?

 

Then we could all point and laugh at them, 'cause there's really no harm in laughing at inanimate objects, and it'd about take a mental midget with the overall intelligence of a fencepost to pull that off.

 

So naturally someone'd be doing it somewhere out there every day.

 

More money for Bioware. A good warning before clicking 'yes, I really want to reset my Advanced Class' ought to cover that.

[Uruare]

You seem to misunderstand what the word "master" means. Especially since a considerable amount of 55's haven't even come close to mastering their class after months of playing. And let's be honest here - those are the ones who want to have an AC change, the ones who still can't be bothered to learn something new and would rather skip to the end.

 

So would you want a bunch of people who at least know the basics of their class? Or some chickens pressing buttons.

 

Actually, if we're being honest, its probably mostly the people that know what they're doing and are sick and tired of doing the boring level-grind to get to the endgame to do what they actually want to be doing that'd make the most use of something like this.

 

I'd use this AC swap on a couple of my toons. I have a sentinel I'd totally switch to Guardian because I got sick of Sentinel two Marauders ago, and I rather like my Juggernaut better, and Guardian's the same thing. I'd also switch my smuggler to a gunslinger so I could actually enjoy playing it again.

 

I know a good few people. Everyone I know that salivates when this topic comes up is a fellow vet, usually wanting to switch something they're bored of having too many variants of. One of my girlfriends has three marauders and two sentinels, and she'd love to switch one of her marauders to juggernaut after having leveled a guardian and found that she really enjoyed pvp on a split-tree tank/dps build of that, whereas she hates it on sent/mar.

 

I just can't agree with your supposition there. It doesn't match up what so ever with either what I'd do with such an option, or what anyone I know that's ever chimed up about it would do with such an option.

 

Only that 'I wish I could switch X to Y' comes up often enough in my assorted guilds that I'd be hard pressed not to suppose that there's a lot of money just waiting for Bioware to claim it on this one, and its not in the grubby hands of people that are too stupid to fish.

[Vagari]

This would make me extremely happy and I would pay for this. Also they need Dual specs. That is all i ask for.

[Spatology]

Actually, if we're being honest, its probably mostly the people that know what they're doing and are sick and tired of doing the boring level-grind to get to the endgame to do what they actually want to be doing that'd make the most use of something like this.

 

I'd use this AC swap on a couple of my toons. I have a sentinel I'd totally switch to Guardian because I got sick of Sentinel two Marauders ago, and I rather like my Juggernaut better, and Guardian's the same thing. I'd also switch my smuggler to a gunslinger so I could actually enjoy playing it again.

 

I know a good few people. Everyone I know that salivates when this topic comes up is a fellow vet, usually wanting to switch something they're bored of having too many variants of. One of my girlfriends has three marauders and two sentinels, and she'd love to switch one of her marauders to juggernaut after having leveled a guardian and found that she really enjoyed pvp on a split-tree tank/dps build of that, whereas she hates it on sent/mar.

 

I just can't agree with your supposition there. It doesn't match up what so ever with either what I'd do with such an option, or what anyone I know that's ever chimed up about it would do with such an option.

 

Only that 'I wish I could switch X to Y' comes up often enough in my assorted guilds that I'd be hard pressed not to suppose that there's a lot of money just waiting for Bioware to claim it on this one, and its not in the grubby hands of people that are too stupid to fish.

 

Been playing the 2 years, never once heard the statement about switching AC. Ever.

 

Also, i know of exactly 0 people that have 3 marauders and 2 sentinels. This sounds like crazy talk.

 

Regardless, allowing AC change without some restriction devalues knights and smugglers.

 

Until knights can heal and smugglers can tank, the flexibility under such a system gifted to consulars/troopers would make them the only choice for a majority of players.

[Defecter]

Buying max level classes means no experience actually playing the class through the leveling experience and thus not learning the class properly. It's not like leveling in this game is hard to begin with. But it does teach you the basics of a class. And those claiming that classes are 'easy' to learn, a single peek into any non-premade PvP team pretty much proves otherwise for a great deal of the game's population.

 

And yes, I use 'class' as a substitute for 'AC', because that's what it basically is. In no MMO ever, which wasn't some utter asian grindfest and Buy-To-Win fail MMO, have I seen an option to buy your way to max level. If you want another class at max level, level it. Hell, this game provides excellent replay value just by playing it's mirror class instead. And if you can't even be bothered to play the mirror class and enjoy another story in order to break the monotomy of leveling again, this is simply not the game for you.

 

And really, if you can stand the monotomy of dailies, PvP and Ops (none of which are really dynamic content) at max level, you shouldn't have any problem with taking a bit of time to level up another character. Using the argument 'leveling is boring' is a crap argument. I find dailies far, far, FAR more boring. But I'm not going to get all the rep and rewards by buying them with CC, am I?

 

No, subscription + exp potions + legacy exp boost = insane leveling speeds. It's enough.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Defecter

[Kane_Ren]

Yeah I want to run a hm op with someone who has just swopped class, has no experience with their new class and has no relevant gear. Pugs will be infested with them.

[micnevv]

Buying max level classes means no experience actually playing the class through the leveling experience and thus not learning the class properly. It's not like leveling in this game is hard to begin with. But it does teach you the basics of a class. And those claiming that classes are 'easy' to learn, a single peek into any non-premade PvP team pretty much proves otherwise for a great deal of the game's population.

 

And yes, I use 'class' as a substitute for 'AC', because that's what it basically is. In no MMO ever, which wasn't some utter asian grindfest and Buy-To-Win fail MMO, have I seen an option to buy your way to max level. If you want another class at max level, level it. Hell, this game provides excellent replay value just by playing it's mirror class instead. And if you can't even be bothered to play the mirror class and enjoy another story in order to break the monotomy of leveling again, this is simply not the game for you.

 

And really, if you can stand the monotomy of dailies, PvP and Ops (none of which are really dynamic content) at max level, you shouldn't have any problem with taking a bit of time to level up another character. Using the argument 'leveling is boring' is a crap argument. I find dailies far, far, FAR more boring. But I'm not going to get all the rep and rewards by buying them with CC, am I?

 

No, subscription + exp potions + legacy exp boost = insane leveling speeds. It's enough.

 

This is the problem that most people aren't seeing when it comes to AC swaps - It's an entirely different class with only 10'ish shared abilities that are then modified to have different mechanics upon choosing a different AC.

 

Just imagine if a sniper changed to an operative or vice versa with no previous experience.

Edited January 12, 2014 by micnevv

[Glower]

This would make me extremely happy and I would pay for this. Also they need Dual specs. That is all i ask for.

 

Yeah!

[Andryah]

1) There are a lot of valid reasons NOT to do this.. as already expressed by others in this thread already (AND every other drive by thread wanting AC change in the forum the last two years).

 

2) I continue to see one, and only one, valid reason for it (from a player perspective) ------> player is too lazy or indifferent to level up a new AC in a game where the leveling process is streamlined such that it's easier then most other MMOs to do so.

 

You want to experience a particular AC..... then roll the AC and level it up. That is the best way to learn the AC and all the skills that unlock for it through the leveling process. If you don't have the patience for it, or the desire, then I also do not believe you will make good use of the AC if it is handed to you via an AC_Change feature.

 

When the game is years down the road, and entering twilight then maybe... along with the instant cap level characters OLD ARSE MMOs give you as well (like EQ2 and WoW do). But that time has not yet arrived, IMO.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Andryah

[Tsillah]

Been playing the 2 years, never once heard the statement about switching AC. Ever.

 

Also, i know of exactly 0 people that have 3 marauders and 2 sentinels. This sounds like crazy talk.

 

Regardless, allowing AC change without some restriction devalues knights and smugglers.

 

Until knights can heal and smugglers can tank, the flexibility under such a system gifted to consulars/troopers would make them the only choice for a majority of players.

 

I dunno about marauders and sentinels but I have 3 sorcs and 2 sages...

 

Having said that, I don't need to be able to switch AC, I also have 2 assassins and a shadow so for me this is not needed at all. I really wonder if enough people really would pay for it and therefore would it be worth the investment to set this up. Considering other prices it'd be 2-3k CC to do so and there are little issues like gear and storyline issues, not to mention companions, their affection rating and such. And I'm sure I am only touching on some of the issues here. And what's next then? People complaining they can't change their jedi into a sith or vice versa? So yeah I don't see this as good way to go either.

 

I will say this though. I've been here since the beta's and this subject has passed by here various times. You may never have seen it (by chance perhaps) but I most certainly have seen this brought up more often. It sticks its head up now and again. I don't have the impression though that many people would care about this too much.

[Savej]

This is the problem that most people aren't seeing when it comes to AC swaps - It's an entirely different class with only 10'ish shared abilities that are then modified to have different mechanics upon choosing a different AC.

 

Just imagine if a sniper changed to an operative or vice versa with no previous experience.

 

I don't see your point. Imagine what happens when a dps operative flips to heals...? Imagine what happens when a smash jug flips to tank? New gear required, new rotation, new priorities, lots of new things. It's exactly the same as a skill tree switch. Many many things are still shared but yeah, someone has to do a bit of research and practice before doing high end competitive stuff - whether that player flips trees, ACs or just takes a couple months off. So what?

 

I've got well over 10 55s including at least 1 of every (non-faction-specific) AC other than sage/sorc. The people arguing (some vehemently) against AC respecs sound narrow minded and extremely petty to me. Personally I play one or two characters most of the time - I would like to occasionally swap AC with my main rather than dig up another character with a different name, different rep, different contacts/friends/ignores/etc.. Why do I have to do that? In the trailers for this game -and- the movies, when the jedi wanted to switch from using one sword to two he did not have to change his name.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Savej

[NogueiraA]

I'm playing Guild Wars 2 and they have something SWTOR should implement.

There's a PVP lobby where everybody is level 80, can buy the pvp gear free. No gear advantage, what really matters is your skill to how you build your class and weapons, very mature.

So you're able to create a new toon, level 2 you can go to this pvp lobby and see how your toon would be at level 80, you can use the skills, skill tree and everything. You can pvp there all day long, there's no XP envolved.

 

So, when I leveled my Assassin I really disliked it, then I had to level up another Inquisitor, my sorcerer. If I could use the class at level cap BEFORE leveling, I'd know if I would like it or not.

I agree with AC change.

[Spatology]

I dunno about marauders and sentinels but I have 3 sorcs and 2 sages...

 

Having said that, I don't need to be able to switch AC, I also have 2 assassins and a shadow so for me this is not needed at all. I really wonder if enough people really would pay for it and therefore would it be worth the investment to set this up. Considering other prices it'd be 2-3k CC to do so and there are little issues like gear and storyline issues, not to mention companions, their affection rating and such. And I'm sure I am only touching on some of the issues here. And what's next then? People complaining they can't change their jedi into a sith or vice versa? So yeah I don't see this as good way to go either.

 

I will say this though. I've been here since the beta's and this subject has passed by here various times. You may never have seen it (by chance perhaps) but I most certainly have seen this brought up more often. It sticks its head up now and again. I don't have the impression though that many people would care about this too much.

 

oh ive heard it on the boards....numerous times....

 

during live play? never.

[DarknessInLight]

Agreed. Or better yet stop being lazy.

 

Those two kinda tie into each other, don't they?!

[Tsillah]

oh ive heard it on the boards....numerous times....

 

during live play? never.

 

Oh I've had discussions with people about it before also in game. But really, let's be honest...it's not really relevant whether you or I ever heard it or not or where. That's hardly representative, but I do agree that I don't think it's something BW is really interested in doing for various reasons, one being that overall there isn't that much interest in it, because even here on the boards it's not something that has a lot of people wanting it. So even the discussions that do exist have been rather limited from what I've seen.

 

I personally think that the investment of creating the service, plus the cost involved in CC will make this a very unlikely feature. I won't say never, but very unlikely for sure.

[Sibenice]

Re-posting because I ended up at the bottom of a page right before this thread died for a bit last night.

 

I really don't see why this is such a "sky is falling" topic, honestly.

 

The ability to change your AC isn't suddenly going to turn a good player into a bumbling idiot who can't play their class to save their life. If someone is dumb enough to hop into group content without learning their other AC then they probably weren't exactly competent at the other one either. Lol

 

I also don't see how this is any different than changing (bear with me here) specs in WoW on some classes. Example, druid. One melee, one ranged, one healing and one tank spec. All with significantly different move sets and roles. And yet, somehow, tons of people are able to learn and use more than one of those at the same time while still playing just fine!

 

Also, the people who are saying it could mess up raid groups. What kind of raid groups are you talking about here? This would only help the guild groups and such because if people are able to fulfill more than one/diverse roles then you open up greater opportunities for better fight comps, switches when people are absent, etc. The only place I can see this being an issue are pug groups where someone goes in as one and decides to switch to the other, affecting the group. But did you really want to run with someone like that anyways?

 

Now, I don't really care if they implement this or not. I'm perfectly capable of leveling things. However, I do understand why people want to. Some people like to do everything on one character, some people don't enjoy leveling, some people don't have time, etc. And that's fine. Personally, I don't see how more options like this would actually hurt anything where people wouldn't just be acting like douche bags anyways.

 

And to add to this, on the gear topic. Lets take my druid example from earlier. The druids have four specs and four (Well, three and a half... bear and kitty can share a lot of gear and be decent) entirely different gear sets. One of each spec. And somehow, people manage to figure out how to gear (usually) at least two of them so that they can be more useful to the groups they join. In fact, many of the higher up the ladder guilds require people to have gear for/be proficient at more than one of their specs from hybrids to pures because in WoW each spec on a pure dps class is widely different from the other, usually don't share more than a couple spells, if that, in their main rotation and often calls for a different variance of stats meaning if you're running both you need two sets of gear (or you're going to be spending a lot of money altering them ).

 

I just do not understand why you guys are convinced that people wouldn't be capable of handling switching ACs when it's really no different from what tons of people do in another game. It's not like your average player over there is far more advanced than those here and it's common place in that game. The average player over there usually has the gear and knowledge to play at least two of their specs competently on at least their main character. Honestly, I just don't understand where you're coming from. It's not rocket science.

[Prototypemind]

I just think the tradition should continue. I've never played a D&D variant where I could change my AC, though I guess technically that would be at the discretion of the DM. It certainly doesn't make sense from a RP/Lore perspective. "I've dedicated myself to being a dual saber master, focused on combat to the exclusion of other Force techniques, but now I am truly in tune with the Force, and at will, I can take on the abilities of my counterparts and take on any challenge thrown my way, standing against whatever I may have to face." I know we truly aren't seeing characters mature over years, but that's the underlying idea, that you have become this person in-game. The arcane abilities you have are based on the path you chose and are tied to your character.

 

Basically players want to be able to test the waters with a class, then change as the mood strikes, or as patch and roll out changes suddenly make another class the FOTM and more desirable than current. There's also the loss of motivation to actually roll new characters when you want to try something new. I'm going to finally make a Sorc and try healing, meaning there's one more toon on lower planets to group up and play with others. There's a social/longevity concept that is definitely hurt by an ability to change ACs. Keep things as they are.