Gunshipes Ruining Starfighter

[Brewski]

Barrel roll and bypass...........all 3 ships types have access to these and can abuse them equally. Without barrel roll it would be very hard for strike fighters and gunships to deal with scouts.

 

While I agree that all three classes can abuse them equally (especially Bypass) I still think the fact that we all call it abuse points to the fact that they need tweaks.

 

Barrel Roll was not intended to be used as a travel tool. So although I don't consider it OP per se, I do think it needs to be modified so that it serves it's primary purpose (missile avoidance and escape) without also generating a significant bonus in movement that was not intended.

 

Bypass, while granting that every ship has equal access to it, is also OP in the hands of any ship. Not that it needs a big nerf. Reducing the shield penetration by a few points would be enough in my mind, but it's just too good an offensive ability right now. It buries any other offensive copilot skill out there, really, and it needs to be brought into balance with the other offensive skills.

[Eldrenath]

I, and many other pilots who never fly gunships, also think the complaints in these threads a re a bit overblown. Some tweaks are needed, but gunships are not game breaking as they are. The only tweak needed to gunships specifically is to nerf the Ion-tap effect. If the Ion gun required a full charge for full effect, it would be fine.

 

The other two issues, Barrel Roll being used for travel and the Bypass copilot ability, affect more than just gunships. These also need some adjustment, but they are not tied specifically to gunships.

 

I do not like gunships at all, but understand that they represent a different playstyle that is very appealing to some players, hence increasing the overall appeal of GSF as a whole. I definitely agree with your point that the main problem is the ion cannon love tap giving the full debuff effect. But I disagree with your opinion on barrel roll somewhat.

 

I have no problem with gunships having barrel roll, but I don't like that they can stop a barrel roll at any point by going to scope. One of the dangers of missile lock skills--and barrel roll in particular--is the danger of self-destructing when using it. All ships EXCEPT the gunship must be careful when using barrel roll, reverse thrusters, koigoran turn, etc. that they have the space to use them and won't blow up. Gunships can, at any point in the barrel roll, go to scope for their long-range weapon and stop the roll. That means that barrel roll for a gunship has a significant advantage over barrel roll for other ships.

 

I think the main reason people complain about barrel roll for gunships is the "escape to home base" maneuver. But there are other ways to resolve this rather than removing barrel roll from gunships altogether. I don't have a problem with gunships having barrel roll, but I believe that the gunship barrel roll scope-stop should be removed.

[Kain_Turinbar]

While I agree that all three classes can abuse them equally (especially Bypass) I still think the fact that we all call it abuse points to the fact that they need tweaks.

 

Barrel Roll was not intended to be used as a travel tool. So although I don't consider it OP per se, I do think it needs to be modified so that it serves it's primary purpose (missile avoidance and escape) without also generating a significant bonus in movement that was not intended.

 

Bypass, while granting that every ship has equal access to it, is also OP in the hands of any ship. Not that it needs a big nerf. Reducing the shield penetration by a few points would be enough in my mind, but it's just too good an offensive ability right now. It buries any other offensive copilot skill out there, really, and it needs to be brought into balance with the other offensive skills.

 

I don't see any way to remove its utility as a travel tool without making it crap to use compared to the other missile lock breaks. I guess I'm kind of partial to it since as a strike fighter pilot I need it for two things:

 

1. Staying alive when outnumbered, especially if a few scouts or gunships are involved.

2. Catching gunships that are spamming barrel roll to get away from me. THey will run out of engine power first so if they can't get to home base or friends they are dead. Usually if I can tell they are bugging out of the node altogether in search of easier prey though I just let them.

 

I agree with the poster about gunships using their scope though. Right clicking shouldn't cancel the barrel roll.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Kain_Turinbar

[Itkovian]

I don't see any way to remove its utility as a travel tool without making it crap to use compared to the other missile lock breaks. I guess I'm kind of partial to it since as a strike fighter pilot I need it for two things:

 

1. Staying alive when outnumbered, especially if a few scouts or gunships are involved.

2. Catching gunships that are spamming barrel roll to get away from me. THey will run out of engine power first so if they can't get to home base or friends they are dead. Usually if I can tell they are bugging out of the node altogether in search of easier prey though I just let them.

 

I agree with the poster about gunships using their scope though. Right clicking shouldn't cancel the barrel roll.

 

Personally I'm fine with barrel roll, and I think that it WAS intended to be a mobility enhancer. The other lock breakers have their own unique advantages, mostly related to enhancing dogfight maneuverability. Barrel Roll, meanwhile, is meant as a speed boost.

 

Furthermore, I find that barrel roll is vital for success as a Strike Fighter. We just don't have the mobility needed to survive gunships or scouts without it.

 

Either way, I doubt that the enhanced mobility was an unintended consequence.

[Kain_Turinbar]

Personally I'm fine with barrel roll, and I think that it WAS intended to be a mobility enhancer. The other lock breakers have their own unique advantages, mostly related to enhancing dogfight maneuverability. Barrel Roll, meanwhile, is meant as a speed boost.

 

Furthermore, I find that barrel roll is vital for success as a Strike Fighter. We just don't have the mobility needed to survive gunships or scouts without it.

 

Either way, I doubt that the enhanced mobility was an unintended consequence.

 

I hope not because like you said, we NEED it.

[cotelouis]

Yes, Gunships are way overpowered, period. As a fully upgraded strike fighter with proper crew members selected, I do expect to do fairly well in battle, but as a fully upgraded strike fighter that can get single or double shot killed within 2 seconds, before I even know there's a gunship there, I find that rather ridiculous.

 

I'm starting to /ignore players that clearly favor gunships for cheap gaming. When they finally nerf these silly ships, I'll remove the /ignore. At least now I can reduce queuing.

[Warhelm]

I'm starting to /ignore players that clearly favor gunships for cheap gaming. When they finally nerf these silly ships, I'll remove the /ignore. At least now I can reduce queuing.

 

AFAIK, that is only a PvE feature, and not available for PvP matches.

[cotelouis]

AFAIK, that is only a PvE feature, and not available for PvP matches.

 

Perhaps, but so far, I haven't been in a starfighter match with anyone I've ignored.

[Brewski]

Personally I'm fine with barrel roll, and I think that it WAS intended to be a mobility enhancer. The other lock breakers have their own unique advantages, mostly related to enhancing dogfight maneuverability. Barrel Roll, meanwhile, is meant as a speed boost.

 

Furthermore, I find that barrel roll is vital for success as a Strike Fighter. We just don't have the mobility needed to survive gunships or scouts without it.

 

Either way, I doubt that the enhanced mobility was an unintended consequence.

Well, if it was intended as a mobility aid, I'd be fine with that, but if so I'd like to see a dev come in and clarify it. I don't think it's nearly as OP as some people say., so I wouldn't really care For me it's more of a logic thing. Why should your ship have increased speed and range because it's spiraling? It just seems an odd place to put in a mobility booster.

 

Also, I think as it stands it's a bit too universally good. Very few Strikers and Gunships use anything else at the higher end if they have Barrel Roll available since they need the mobility. Heck, half the scouts I see still use it too. I'd personally rather see BR get a bit of a nerf, and Strikers get something else to increase their range.

 

I do agree that gunships should not be able to switch to sniper mode in the middle of a barrel roll. They should have to wait it out like the rest of us.

[Artharin]

I find it funny that everyone thinks it's okay to cry nerf when they can't figure something out. You don't see people on here crying nerf about the Burst spec for Scouts. You know the one that can destroy a fully master craft in 1 to 2 shots?

 

Yes, I'm primarily a gunship pilot. But I fly EVERYTHING scouts, strikers, gunnys. I fly them all. Why?

 

Knowing their strengths and weakness makes me better able to deal with the threat each ship represents.

 

So quit crying nerf....and learn to play. Seriously, it's not that hard.

 

What I find funny is that you know you wouldn't win without cheap tactics. They take away your barrel roll spam, Ion cannon debuff on an uncharged shot and bypass ability...I wonder how long you'd fly a gunship then. Also; I never said I had any trouble fighting against a gunship. It just gets old chasing you guys down.

 

As far as the scout burst cannon goes, well...you have to be in close for that to work not camping 15km away.

[Artharin]

Surprise surprise, the above post came from a gunship pilot. Keeping the stereotype alive...nice work.

[Zharik]

To me the biggest SMH about ion cannons is the tier 4 upgrade.... Why would anyone ever use the Crit increase? A full charge kills anyone's shield (ok except maybe a fortress shield in use) and does crap damage vs hulls. The other side is AOE (which is HUGE to start with) AND drains a LOT of power. Talk about overpowered?

 

Split those 2 powerful abilities into the two choices for tier 4 and that is a great start to fix the ion cannon power.

Choose between shield smashing AOE, or energy draining vs 1 target. Get rid of crit, it is pointless for ion.

[Ravenschild]

They're actually very easy to shut down if you learn to stop flying slow in a straight line at them.

 

I have to disagree with you here. We have 4-5 gunships camping just outside our spawn last night in a match. You get out,you get 1 shotted and you respawn to have it happen again. The base ships couldnt hit them as they were just out of range and we couldnt get to them because of focus firing. The base ships have guns supposedly to prevent such and the Devs when asked about ground pvp said the range increase for snipers was limited because this was such an issue. Yet they dont seem to have that issue in GSF where you can be killed with 1 shot or 2 shots focus fired (especially using the ion cannon) to where you cannot do anything. In ground a mara,jug,etc can close the gap with a leaping attack where in GSF we have to rush to close and even using the engine shunt,barrel roll and afterburners you cannot close the gap in the situation I had last night. 4 of us were in maxed out ships (2 scout,2 strike) and we still died virtually instantly. With that kind of extreme range that the GS has and the fact that scouts and strikes cannot close quickly their damage or range needs to be dropped so we at least have a chance to close or escape.

[SpeckV]

Yeah Gunships get old quick. They have no place in what's meant to be high octane starfighter combat. That said what can you do about it? They aren't going to take out a whole GSF class. Get use to to trying to chase down a GS that boosts to his fleet flagship the moment you get in attack position. fun

[NotThatOne]

What I find funny is that you know you wouldn't win without tactics. They take away your barrel roll spam, Ion cannon debuff on an uncharged shot and bypass ability...I wonder how long you'd fly a gunship then. Also; I never said I had any trouble fighting against a gunship. It just gets old chasing you guys down.

 

As far as the scout burst cannon goes, well...you have to be in close for that to work not camping 15km away.

 

 

There. I made your argument valid.

 

And as far as I know, I've never flown against you. I won't say I never use the love tap Ion, and I have flown over eager pilots into my capital ship's guns, but when I do so it's because I've been priority targeted by GOOD pilots on the other side. Besides, I'd prefer to blast you, and stay in the fight, not run away from you.

[Zharik]

Yeah Gunships get old quick. They have no place in what's meant to be high octane starfighter combat. That said what can you do about it? They aren't going to take out a whole GSF class. Get use to to trying to chase down a GS that boosts to his fleet flagship the moment you get in attack position. fun

 

I hate that tactic with a passion. I feel that it is quite unfair that they can run from the fight in a way that you cannot follow. I would like to see them shot by their own capitol ship's cannons for desertion at that point (you get insta-killed for flying out of bounds any other direction...).

[DarthVindictus]

Well, if it was intended as a mobility aid, I'd be fine with that, but if so I'd like to see a dev come in and clarify it. I don't think it's nearly as OP as some people say., so I wouldn't really care For me it's more of a logic thing. Why should your ship have increased speed and range because it's spiraling? It just seems an odd place to put in a mobility booster.

 

Also, I think as it stands it's a bit too universally good. Very few Strikers and Gunships use anything else at the higher end if they have Barrel Roll available since they need the mobility. Heck, half the scouts I see still use it too. I'd personally rather see BR get a bit of a nerf, and Strikers get something else to increase their range.

 

I do agree that gunships should not be able to switch to sniper mode in the middle of a barrel roll. They should have to wait it out like the rest of us.

 

I think they fixed going into sniper mode mid barrel roll, because I tried that once and ended up self destructing, it wouldn't let me go into sniper mode while I was still in the barrel roll.

 

Wasn't in any patch notes but hey, ninja fix.

 

Otherwise I think of barrel roll being absolutely vital pretty much to all the ships. it's a fast lock on breaker, and allows you to flee, and you can at least see where you're going. Retro thrusters or kolo turn .. you don't know where that's going to take you all the time.

[arkanone]

I hate that tactic with a passion. I feel that it is quite unfair that they can run from the fight in a way that you cannot follow. I would like to see them shot by their own capitol ship's cannons for desertion at that point (you get insta-killed for flying out of bounds any other direction...).

 

There shouldn't be capitol ship cannons at all. I'm sure the intent was to keep players from getting spawn-camped but in no other WZ are there cannons, turrets or anything at your spawn point that can be used against enemy players.

 

Right now the only counter is to bring a gunship to their side of the map and pop them as soon as they leave the spawn area. Gunships have incredible mobility so it's definitely possible.

[renegadeimp]

Good job the devs dont take notice of ideas like those in this thread. In other warzones, even on ground, the spawn points are protected. Why should you be able to spawn camp players? If a player runs to the ship, head the opposite way. Youll be well out of range of them before they even start to turn around and target you. It seems as if too many people value kills over the actual OBJECTIVE of the battle.

 

Leave domination matches alone. Youll have your deathmatches next month, where you can cry about other ships being massively OP simply because you dont want to counter them or put any effort in.

[LuxLumos]

Complaining about Gunships? Be complaining about bombers next.

[Brewski]

Surprise surprise, the above post came from a gunship pilot. Keeping the stereotype alive...nice work.

 

I hope you weren't referring to me (since I'm the poster above you), as I am in no a way a gunship pilot. I'd like to be able to fly them, but honestly I stink at it. I get off a few shots, mostly misses, and then die.

 

I'm a scout pilot. I fly strikers sometimes too, but 90% of my flight time is in a scout. I do occasionally jump into a gunship when a match is near the end if the score no longer matters just to try and unlock the achievement, but other than that me jumping in gunship only helps the other team.

 

To the point, though, I fly one of the ships that can be one shot by gunships, and I don't think they are OP. They need a few tweaks, but in general they are fine. It just goes to show that not everyone who defends gunships actually flies them.

[renegadeimp]

The ONLY thing about a gunship that needs to change is Ion railgun. it needs to scale with the charge. NOTHING else needs to change at all. Anyone who tries to say otherwise has not got a single clue what they are talking about.

[Sangrar]

Surprise surprise, the above post came from a gunship pilot. Keeping the stereotype alive...nice work.

 

generalizing that anyone who defends a gunship "must" be a gunship pilot. Nice work keeping THAT stereotype alive.

[Sangrar]

The ONLY thing about a gunship that needs to change is Ion railgun. it needs to scale with the charge. NOTHING else needs to change at all. Anyone who tries to say otherwise has not got a single clue what they are talking about.

 

quoted for truth

[Zharik]

The ONLY thing about a gunship that needs to change is Ion railgun. it needs to scale with the charge. NOTHING else needs to change at all. Anyone who tries to say otherwise has not got a single clue what they are talking about.

 

I would argue that the tier 4 ion upgrade is something that needs adjusted (I totally agree with full charge = full debuff, 50% charge = 50% debuff, etc). AOE AND massive energy drain... vs crit (on a shield breaker weapon?) Cause yeah... there might be one guy that clicked crit by accident.

 

Split the AOE and energy drain into separate choices so you get either AOE shield breaking... OR single target screw you buddy...