Evasion shouldn't work if you aren't moving.

[NathanielStarr]

It is annoying that you can miss ships that aren't moving at all and they have evasion builds. Evasion means you are dodging and such. There should be a huge bonus to hit not moving targets, but there does not appear to be one.

 

If we are to be victims of the RNG in what was supposed to be a twitch game at least try to make it somewhat representative of reality.

[Sadishist]

Evasion should be more effective at higher speeds.

[Brewski]

It does make logical sense. I would support an evasion multiplier based on your rate of movement. Full speed? 100% of you evasion skill. Cruising at two thirds your max speed? .67 of your evasion skill. Dead stop? 0% evasion

 

So passive 41% for scouts would actually be:

41% if you are boosting or at full throttle. (holding down W.)

27% at cruise speed. (No throttle controls)

14% at slow speed. (Holding down S)

0% at a dead stop.

[Brilo]

 

That is all.

[Kuciwalker]

Evasion shouldn't be in the game.

[Zharik]

I've posted this elsewhere but it is worth repeating. It is so difficult to imagine a system that spoofs your targeting system into thinking that they are 50m to the left? And it take a few seconds for your targeting system to recognize the error and correct?

 

Evasion is fine and there are plenty of counters. (Think debuffs, people.)

[Brilo]

Oh, is this another thread where we all post our opinions and then complain that we don't agree with each other? I wanna play!

 

Ahem.

 

I think Evasion shouldn't work if you aren't moving, and if you don't agree then you may very well have a different opinion.

 

[DakhathKilrathi]

You know, I can admit that I abuse distortion field while I'm stopped. And it's very, very effective.

 

That said? It shouldn't be. If not 'not working', there should be a penalty to evasion for stopping.

[Sharee]

You know, I can admit that I abuse distortion field while I'm stopped. And it's very, very effective.

 

That said? It shouldn't be. If not 'not working', there should be a penalty to evasion for stopping.

 

What you have is an ability that makes a craft hard to hit. They could have called it 'evasion', or 'distortion', or 'alien shield from hell'. It does not matter. Its just flavor text. Fluff. Eye-candy. With no impact on how the ability functions.

 

Sure, in the real world, evasion on something that stands still makes no sense. But we are not talking real world, we are talking MMO mechanics, where abilities are balanced against each other, not against some sort of imaginary 'realism'.

 

Making evasion not working if the craft stands still makes about as much sense as making marauder undying rage not work if the marauder stands still. Because what's the difference? That one is called 'evasion' and the other isn't?

 

Flavor text.

[NathanielStarr]

Meh it's just annoying that RNG plays a part in what was supposed to be at least somewhat of a twitch space experience. It also looks pretty *********** dumb when ships park next to each other and start firing because that is the best thing to do in the situation. It makes the "flavor" of the game overall less tasty.

 

We should also note that undying rage is not called undying dodge.

Edited January 9, 2014 by NathanielStarr

[archifikoss]

It is annoying that you can miss ships that aren't moving at all and they have evasion builds. Evasion means you are dodging and such. There should be a huge bonus to hit not moving targets, but there does not appear to be one.

 

If we are to be victims of the RNG in what was supposed to be a twitch game at least try to make it somewhat representative of reality.

 

I agree... But I agree even more with this:

 

Evasion shouldn't be in the game.

 

Coming from a (primarily) scout pilot of both variants. I'm not a fan of crits either. However I recall reading on the forums that evasion is there due to some technical issues with hitboxes and that it is not actually a flat % to miss... Still I don't like RNG in any form.

[Morien]

Evasion shouldn't be in the game.

 

I agree as well. I came to the forums to check after I played a few games to find out how the lag worked and where I was supposed to aim. Mixing twitch and skills is always a bad idea. Parked ships with evasion ability is the worst idea of all time in any game.

[DEATHICIDE]

My problem with players sitting still and popping evasion, is that it encourages lame gameplay, and more so, it is just plain stupid.

 

If my rapid fire lasers are locked right on the ship, it is stopped, we are at close range, I want to know just how this thing is making laser fire miss.

 

A missile lock, sure, makes sense, but when we can see something with no guidance system like a manually fired laser hit dead on and just have no effect, the idea of that being due to evasion is whack.

 

Call it like it is, name it immunity shielding, just to make my logic box stop imploding on itself.

Of course, label it immunity shielding and the perception of this buff changes to "immunity? oh what garbage NERF IT"

 

If this is an evasion field, I 100% support the idea of diminishing returns on the buff from lowering speed, right down to 0% at full stop.

 

With the addition of bombers, it also makes more sense that since there will be AI controlled turrets in the sky as well as on nodes, that evasion could work on these while at full stop, as perhaps it messes with the AI or something.

 

End of the day, dodging full on laser fire from another player while you are at a full stop does not meet the definition of evasion, and falls under the category of immunity.

 

It is complete clown shoes.

Edited January 9, 2014 by DEATHICIDE

[Altheran]

I've posted this elsewhere but it is worth repeating. It is so difficult to imagine a system that spoofs your targeting system into thinking that they are 50m to the left? And it take a few seconds for your targeting system to recognize the error and correct?

 

Evasion is fine and there are plenty of counters. (Think debuffs, people.)

 

If you think of systems that tells you where to fire given their trajectory and speed, like we have now, yes it's possible to think of a defensive systems which messes with enemy aiming systems (reducing radar echo, jamming...).

 

But someone who has no speed can be aimed at sight. No informatic systems, just eyes. How would explain how such a system can mess with the pilot's natural aiming ?

 

Same thinking could be applied to firing a ship from his six, or from his noon... But that's another story.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Altheran

[Bloodybones]

I think the big portion of this that everyone is missing in regards to "Evasion" is how long it last.

 

With a fully upgraded Distortion field you have a choice to increase from the starting 3 seconds to an additional 3 seconds. ( GRAND TOTAL 6 sec. ) and if the NAME evasion doesnt work for you, perhaps they should rename it to Frequency shift ( matching your lasers frequency for 6 sec.)

 

What Im seeing is people dont want to have to make a tactical retreat or just fly around the corner and wait for the effect to wear off. ( There are visuals and also you can see the buffs on the target window) People would rather get upset because they got a good solid line up on the target and didnt watch the visuals or buff windows.

 

Lets not just pick on evasion either, What does everyone think about the Sting ability to 1 shot someone ( Pretty lame IMO) I can be at full sheilds , hull and POP my evasion , I've had a sting fly right in and stop almost on top of me, and BOOM insta death . (and no the times Im refering to there were no Gunships around) I can only assume its the Burst Cannons at close range , with Overcharge

[Brilo]

Making evasion not working if the craft stands still makes about as much sense as making marauder undying rage not work if the marauder stands still. Because what's the difference? That one is called 'evasion' and the other isn't?

 

Flavor text.

 

Why do you suppose Magic the Gathering had pictures on the cards? Why does flavor text exist? Why is every single game we play themed?

 

Flavor text isn't "just" flavor text, ever. It's part of a theme that makes the fantasy more fun. When the theme falls apart, so does the player base and your theory about realism.

 

Your seemingly random example misses the point.

The name "Undying Rage" doesn't have any flavor text and it doesn't imply anything aside from the idea that it's a defensive ability that will prevent you from dying, while presumably being angry about something.

If "Undying Rage" said it increases your defense but instead was a ranged CC that made another player fall madly in love with you and follow you around with flowers for 6 seconds, that would be a more relevant comparison. Oh, and we would all be wondering what the hell the devs were thinking about that too.

 

Realism, whether you acknowledge it or not, contributes significantly to what makes roleplaying games fun. The "ism" part means that they try their best to remove things that are similar to reality but aren't fun, like pooping in public bathrooms and people that talk in the theater. Oddly enough, human beings actually seek out things that are both fun and realistic, and we tend to gravitate away from games that emulate paying your bills. The "real" part means that they attempt to keep elements of reality that create challenges that we can reason through and act accordingly to overcome.

 

No, realism is not necessary for a game to be fun, but when an ability is both overpowered and it doesn't realistically make sense within the theme and presents identically to a glitch or latency, you shouldn't be as surprised as you appear to be that so many players take notice.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Brilo

[Altheran]

What Im seeing is people dont want to have to make a tactical retreat or just fly around the corner and wait for the effect to wear off. ( There are visuals and also you can see the buffs on the target window) People would rather get upset because they got a good solid line up on the target and didnt watch the visuals or buff windows.

 

The problem I see with that solution, is that unlike in ground PvP where you can switch target and come back again in no-time, here, given how GSF works, if you do a "tactical retreat" or do something else, the opponent can start the engine and track you, and you end putting yourself in the "prey" position instead of the "hunter".

And most of the time, you can't get out of this position, unless you're a scout and the opponent is not.

[DEATHICIDE]

The problem I see with that solution, is that unlike in ground PvP where you can switch target and come back again in no-time, here, given how GSF works, if you do a "tactical retreat" or do something else, the opponent can start the engine and track you, and you end putting yourself in the "prey" position instead of the "hunter".

And most of the time, you can't get out of this position, unless you're a scout and the opponent is not.

 

That one sort of messes with my head as well.

Why would the predator be the one evading? is that not the role of the prey???

[Sharee]

Why do you suppose Magic the Gathering had pictures on the cards? Why does flavor text exist? Why is every single game we play themed?

 

The cards are balanced by their powers/abilities, not by the pictures that are painted on them.

 

Similarly, MMO abilities are balanced by what they do, how they interact with each other. Not by the flavor texts attached to them.

 

Demanding that a MMO ability should be nerfed solely because of what it is called makes no sense. Your argument is like demanding that operative melee range should be 1m, not 4m, because a vibroknife is realistically shorter than a lightsaber.

 

Flavor text/graphics/card picture is there to add flavor, not to affect/determine game mechanics.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Sharee

[Altheran]

The cards are balanced by their powers/abilities, not by the pictures that are painted on them.

 

Similarly, MMO abilities are balanced by what they do, how they interact with each other. Not by the flavor texts attached to them.

 

Demanding that a MMO ability should be nerfed solely because of what it is called makes no sense. Your argument is like demanding that operative melee range should be 1m, not 4m, because a vibroknife is realistically shorter than a lightsaber.

 

Flavor text/graphics/card picture is there to add flavor, not to affect/determine game mechanics.

 

But "flavor text" give hints on the devs' philosophy when they created the mechanic.

 

In an environment with lasers, metallic hulls and energy shields, they could as well call the avoidance mechanic "deflection chances". But yet they called it "evasion chance".

One has a name implying that even though your aiming was right, it did not affect your target, and the other one imply an action from your target to make you miss. And you know the arguments of the pro-change here that explains how the actual mechanic and its name are illogical...

 

So, in my (neutral) opinion, they could either change the name of the mechanic or change its behavior. I think you can admit that for now, it's not optimal.

 

 

 

But that aside, I think that if distortion field which bases its mechanic upon "evasion" weren't as powerful as now (let the flame begin), allowing to win fights standing still with an outrageous success rate, we probably wouldn't have this discussion in the first place.

"If you think an ability is OP and you happen to be right, then it comes from either the numbers of the ability, or its core mechanic". Two ways to look at things (people tend to forget that balance is not only numbers in some abilities) and two way to resolve the problem when one occurs. I think in this thread many people support this suggestion because they plan to solve their problem with Distortion field by taking the latter point of view.

 

So if the devs were to change Distortion field into something different of less powerful, I think that most of the people here would live well with this little "incoherence".

[kalkasari]

I find stationery ships easy kills, evasion or not. The problem is the range. I think the game has a minimum weapons range built in (correct me if I'm wrong) making it very hard to get hits on close targets, say less than 500m and near impossible when moving (and yes the targeting indicator is being nailed).

 

Even taking into account the focal point of your weapons in an x-wing style laser setup, it shouldn't be so bad. Players should be rewarded with more damage when shooting at close range, especially at stationery targets.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

I agree as well. I came to the forums to check after I played a few games to find out how the lag worked and where I was supposed to aim. Mixing twitch and skills is always a bad idea. Parked ships with evasion ability is the worst idea of all time in any game.

 

Agreed. Accuracy tracking penalties I get since FPS games these days have movement/stance penalties to accuracy. But they don't have things like evasion type mechanics cause it just doesn't blend well (how much rage would there be if you missed your shots in Battlefield because the enemy had an ability to make your weapon less accurate even when the enemy is absolutely still).

 

The name "Undying Rage" doesn't have any flavor text and it doesn't imply anything aside from the idea that it's a defensive ability that will prevent you from dying, while presumably being angry about something.

If "Undying Rage" said it increases your defense but instead was a ranged CC that made another player fall madly in love with you and follow you around with flowers for 6 seconds, that would be a more relevant comparison. Oh, and we would all be wondering what the hell the devs were thinking about that too.

 

And this is perhaps the most funny thing I've read today. Maybe they could implement this as a special temporary retooling of abilities for Valentines Day?

Edited January 10, 2014 by Gavin_Kelvar

[SithAceI]

Boy evasion sounds a lot like the sorces lightning shield when it first came out. And everybody hated on it too. Eventually they fixed it even before game launch. GSF hasn't launch yet either. They will change it. Have patience all.

[Sharee]

But "flavor text" give hints on the devs' philosophy when they created the mechanic.

 

Writing flavor texts is rarely the job of the same person who actually develops the game mechanics, and they are often written long before the mechanics get their final balancing pass.

 

And even if the flavor text *was* written by the same person, actually implemented game mechanics are a far stronger statement of intent than any flavor text accompanying them.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Sharee

[DarkeyedSeer]

The problem is there should not be a skill that basicly makes you miss in this kind of game. its twitch meaning you can get out of the line of fire and avoid damage, if you better you can dodge pull a counter move and shoot them down. there is no need for a dodge bullets button. there should be no form of RNG in a twitch game even if it is in a MMO.