Joystick support needs to be a high priority for GS

[Swerto]

OP: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=699705

 

EDIT:

 

Upvote the reddit thread, keep this thread bumped, let Bioware know we are *not* a minority they can just ignore.

EDIT2: More or less every argument against boils down to "I don't want this because I think it gives an advantage to people who can afford joysticks/gamepads" or "I don't want this, because I think it's dumb, and therefore there should not be an option." or "I don't want this, because it takes development time away from X"

 

Response to number 1: People say that about fight sticks in Fighting games, yet you'll still see people at tournaments using both a controller and a fight stick.

 

Reponse to number 2: You are what is wrong with this community. Just because you won't use something doesn't mean it shouldn't be there. It's an option that will bring in more customers and increase options to the customers already here. It doesn't hurt anyone who doesn't want to use it, and only helps the people who do.

 

Response to number 3: No, it doesn't. Video game design doesn't work like that. The people doing interface coding aren't the people doing art assets, or level design, or class design/balance. Video game design is full of specialists and people who can do general things. Interface coding is usually done by people who do a lot of under the hood stuff, as in not the people who are making new content for the game.

 

 

Hear me out.

 

You are creating an online vehicle combat game. While it is possible to control these things with a mouse and keyboard, people who prefer precision when it comes to moving with a vehicle will often vote for a joystick/flight stick, and maybe even a controller.

 

Additional input support with a gamepad isn't difficult, xinput is natively supported in windows machines which allows all xbox 360 (and now xbone controllers) to be used as a PC controller. There are multiple bindings available already, and if you separate flight controls from on ground controls, this allows multiple bindings for each.

 

I know there is very little reason to have a joystick on the ground part of SWTOR, awesome you've gotten away with it forever, but when you create a flight section of the game where people want to move - a controller is a great addition.

 

Mouse smoothing/etc. can work, it's possible - but you are shutting yourself off from a large crowd of enthusiasts who prefer (and dare I say demand) controller/joystick support.

 

As is, this is how the current control scheme works. Your mouse x and y control your x and y flight by sending your ship moving towards your cursor (which is also your firing arc). You can turn to a maximum around a big circle that is around the center of the screen, after that you can't shoot any further or turn any faster.

 

This could be done on a joystick simply by removing the big circle (because at this point it's just clutter) and forcing the circle to reset (either immediately or slowly) to the center when the joystick goes neutral, and when it is at it's max, be where that circle would be.

 

This would create balanced joystick support without giving an inherent advantage to either party.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Swerto

[Gavin_Kelvar]

Well I do think having the blaster firing arc on your HUD is useful and not clutter in the current form. Primarily because of how accuracy/evasion currently works so knowing exactly how close you are to the edge of the firing arc is useful if you want to maximize your chance to hit. Remove that firing arc indicator and it will become much harder to judge whether you'll be firing with a harsh tracking penalty.

 

What'd I'd like to see is a "lock crosshair to center" button that you can toggle on/off while in flight. If you're starting a straffing run you can release your crosshair but if you start a dogfight you can lock it to center. Even with the mouse I've found the moving crosshair is less than ideal in a dogfight and sometimes having a crosshair locked to center would be advantageous. I think doing that would benefit both control schemes and allow sticks to be used without having to design an entirely new way of controlling a ship when using a stick.

[Swerto]

Just copy pasted the OP, I've got a billion replies in the other threads. Just like to see this get more recognition so hopefully bioware can make it a priority.

[mr_sim]

While I have an old but good joystick collecting dust that I probably last used to play Tie Fighter, I'm not really missing it all that much. I have been ale to perform high quality not crashing with my mouse and keyboard.

 

I certainly would try swapping them mouse for a joystick but it's fine either way.

 

I will say that I have indeed encountered a number of players who have claimed to be vetoing GSF because of no Joystick support, though I don't know if I actually believe that they will actually become GSF players if they did get joystick support.

[Mallorik]

I still cant believe someone thought it was a good idea to make a flight game with no first person view and only mouse controls.

 

The noobs were always going to quit playing gsf in frustration after they were constantly shot down before they could do anything, not allowing joystick support was not going to change that. The only thing it did is guarantee people who really like flight games and play them all the time wont play gsf.

[Ayershole]

guess it's time for all you joystick heroes to reinstall your fav flight sim games. this GSF works fine as is. joystick lovers just wanna justify the $180 they spent on hardware that their parents/spouse said was a waste of money.

[Sindariel]

Hardly any pc gamer nowadays owns a joystick or gamepad.

Implementing joystick/gamepad support would only give a minority of the playerbase a significant advantage against the rest, which would severely hurt the already wonky balance in GSF.

 

So, NO to joystick and gamepad support!

 

However, mouse controls need big improvements.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Sindariel

[TezMoney]

Good luck sniping on a gunship w/ a joystick

[Slivovidze]

Yeeah once again it is time to say this:

 

In GSF, we don't control the ship. We control the aiming recticule. Ship just follows it. Kinda like in any shooter game. And since of course it is possible to play shooter games on consoles with gamepad, I need to ask a rhetorical question: Why are shooter multiplayer servers separate for consoles and PC? One of the reasons is that mouse is so much faster and more precise that consolers would be beaten very very hard. That's why GSF won't likely see gamepad support anytime soon.

 

Joystick is the same story, pretty much.

 

This is not a space sim, just a damn arcade shooter.

[Icebergy]

High priority? No. But it would be nice if they did implement it for the very vocal minority that care.

[Swerto]

guess it's time for all you joystick heroes to reinstall your fav flight sim games. this GSF works fine as is. joystick lovers just wanna justify the $180 they spent on hardware that their parents/spouse said was a waste of money.

 

Cheapest gamepads are $20 at the locla wal*mart. You can get yourself a cabled 360 controller, or PS3 controller for that price. Not to mention there are actual flight sticks on the market now for $50-60.

 

$180 my ***.

[Swerto]

Yeeah once again it is time to say this:

 

In GSF, we don't control the ship. We control the aiming recticule. Ship just follows it. Kinda like in any shooter game. And since of course it is possible to play shooter games on consoles with gamepad, I need to ask a rhetorical question: Why are shooter multiplayer servers separate for consoles and PC? One of the reasons is that mouse is so much faster and more precise that consolers would be beaten very very hard. That's why GSF won't likely see gamepad support anytime soon.

 

Joystick is the same story, pretty much.

 

This is not a space sim, just a damn arcade shooter.

 

Time to say this again: So was Rogue Squadron, Rogue Squadron was built on a controllerr (The N64 controller) and its sequels were built for the Gamecube. It ran amazingly well, it flew well, and it felt well. You controlled the reticle in that too.

[Swerto]

Hardly any pc gamer nowadays owns a joystick or gamepad.

Implementing joystick/gamepad support would only give a minority of the playerbase a significant advantage against the rest, which would severely hurt the already wonky balance in GSF.

 

So, NO to joystick and gamepad support!

 

However, mouse controls need big improvements.

 

Just because you don't doesn't mean you get to say "hardly any". I don't know a PC gamer who also doesn't have access to an Xbox controllre or some form of gamepad, and those that don't can go get one at the local store for less than they'd pay for a decent mouse or keyboard.

 

And even if they didn't - here's a list of recently released games that have joystick support:

 

- Anything that comes out on steam with a Big Picture sticker (most of it)

- Anything else made by EA (Battlefield, Dead Space, Mass Effect, Dragon Age) with exception to the sims series.

- Planetside 2 (MMOFPS, Works great in vehicles, wouldn't use it on foot or in a turret)

- War Thunder (MMO flight game)

 

Plain and simple controllers are great for driving/flying, mouse/keyboard is good for shooting and point and clicking. As of right now, a lot of games are offering things SWTOR does not in the basic interface approach. There is *zero* reason to not make something as simple as a supported input function a high priority. It takes very little development time, and doesn't take any skilled coders or developers away from the content development team.

[Brewski]

GSF was designed to be a part of TOR, and therefore specifically created with keyboard and mouse controls in mind. Joystick support is not needed, and putting it in will just give people the (false) impression that you need a joystick to play GSF, which will then drive fewer people to play it, hurting it in the long run. It's not worth it when the controls are fine as is.

[Swerto]

GSF was designed to be a part of TOR, and therefore specifically created with keyboard and mouse controls in mind. Joystick support is not needed, and putting it in will just give people the (false) impression that you need a joystick to play GSF, which will then drive fewer people to play it, hurting it in the long run. It's not worth it when the controls are fine as is.

 

Battlefield and Planetside are made to be played with a mouse and keyboard.

 

Joystick/Gamepad still an option.

 

Argument invalid.

[fungihoujo]

But why would Bioware do something that would please a large portion of their playerbase? That wouldn't be characteristic of them.

[MColes]

"Large portion". Vocal maybe. Only folks who want it are those who think they'll do better with it, regardless of how they do now. No thanks, keep everyone on the same playing field.

[SithAceI]

Just starting to wonder if the difference in opinion on this subject is a generational thing.

 

What I am proposing is 30 + something's have and want to use sticks/gamepads and under 30 something's could care less. Or something to that effect. I have only flown with a stick. Using a mouse is counter to what I know. ( I am 30+ lol) Younger players would not know a flight stick if they fell on one lol. Its not their fault growing up on FPS type games. The flight games have been on the decline due to companies making FPS to the masses.

 

I think having the "option" of a stick/pad is reasonable to make everyone happy.

Edited January 10, 2014 by SithAceI

[Verain]

Like the title says, joystick support needs to be a high priority for GS. The game will control better with a joystick, especially if the reticule is controlled by the top nub whilst the joystick directly controls the ship.

 

 

It's not generational as much as, fps gamers want mouse/kb, sim players want a joystick. The fps gamers want it because it is what they know, and they are in this thread (and others) QQing because they don't want to have to learn a superior control method. The sim players want a joystick, not just because it is what they know, but because it is straight effing better. Banking right whilst shooting left: joystick with nub at top says hi.

[Sharee]

You are creating an online vehicle combat game. While it is possible to control these things with a mouse and keyboard, people who prefer precision when it comes to moving with a vehicle will often vote for a joystick/flight stick, and maybe even a controller.

 

You are not controlling a vehicle in GSF. You are controlling the position of a round-shaped mouse cursor within a big circle. The ship just follows it. Whenever it comes to placing a mouse cursor at a precise spot, mouse is far superior for the job to any joystick.

 

Have you ever tried to use joystick for everyday computer use? Say, for working with excel? Precision? Pah.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Sharee

[Hambunctious]

You are not controlling a vehicle in GSF. You are controlling the position of a round-shaped mouse cursor within a big circle. The ship just follows it. Whenever it comes to placing a mouse cursor at a precise spot, mouse is far superior for the job to any joystick.

 

Have you ever tried to use joystick for everyday computer use? Say, for working with excel? Precision? Pah.

 

Do fighter pilots on this planet use a mouse/keyboard to fly their planes, or use a flight stick? You should be controlling your ship, and aiming your ship as if the blasters were fixed in a forward firing position like a WW2 fighter plane. As they're supposed to be according to lore.

 

That could have been accomplished with a mouse as well. As was demonstrated in JTL.

 

What they have here is barely any different than the tunnel shooter, and it's almost as lame.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Hambunctious

[Swerto]

You are not controlling a vehicle in GSF. You are controlling the position of a round-shaped mouse cursor within a big circle. The ship just follows it. Whenever it comes to placing a mouse cursor at a precise spot, mouse is far superior for the job to any joystick.

 

Have you ever tried to use joystick for everyday computer use? Say, for working with excel? Precision? Pah.

 

The last time I"m going to say this.

 

You fly at your reticle.

 

Other games use thsi to fly, namely rogue squadron. Rogue Squadron has joystick and controller support considering it was made on a console.

[Sharee]

Other games use thsi to fly, namely rogue squadron. Rogue Squadron has joystick and controller support considering it was made on a console.

 

Well thats the thing you see. A console game does not have a mouse, therefore it *has* to use joystick as controller.

 

I am not saying using a joystick to control what is essentially a mouse cursor is impossible, just that using an actual mouse for that task is much better, and the claim that using a joystick instead would somehow result in better precision is... well.

[Brewski]

Battlefield and Planetside are made to be played with a mouse and keyboard.

 

Joystick/Gamepad still an option.

 

Argument invalid.

 

Those games are not TOR.

 

TOR was not designed for Joystick/Gamepad.

 

Argument Invalid.

 

See what I did there? Dismissing an argument because you don't agree with it without addressing the real points is silly and condescending, and accomplishes nothing.

 

It doesn't matter if other games were designed with other controllers in mind any more than it matter if another MMO was designed to be piloted with your butt. We are talking about this MMO, and specifically about a single type of PvP in this MMO. This MMO was designed around keyboard and mouse movement. That's what's relevant.

 

Adding controllers would give the impression (false or otherwise) that you now need a controller to stay competitive. It adds a need that should not be there, especially not when so many people who already play GSF seem to get by just fine without it. It's quite simply not needed.

[Samwyse]

A lot of the arguments spoken here in this thread have merit and I value and respect most opinions and perspectives. That being said however I feel that IMHO whether or not someone wants to fly with a controller, Flight stick (as is my preference), Mouse/Keyboard, or their thumbs firmly planted up their backside it shouldn't matter to anyone else. The option to use (most) of these methods SHOULD be available. If you don't want to spend the money on a controller, don't! If you don't want to use a joystick...guess what DON'T! But do NOT tell other people what they can or can not use just because you don't like it or won't utilize it. I do not feel nor expect a greater advantage while using my stick to fly, but I do PREFER that form of control. Its a preference, clean, simple. Spend and play your 14.99 a month and play your game the way you want to but let me play/spend mine.