How to solve the problem of XP leaches? Players who do nothing all match!

[abercromb]

My real concern over this is does it help or make things worse? Even though it's small, leeches would become free points for the other side. I just don't think the solution is to turn them from useless members to useless members feeding free points to the enemy. This also only works for one single type of match, if we get things like a death match, or a non-objective point match afkers become a devastating liability.

 

Not sure the leaches would simply turn into free points for the opposition. My guess that once players could not get an easy reward by sitting next to the spawn point they would join in or stop signing up.

[Grayseven]

It would not seem to be too hard to only give credit when certain actions have taken place.

 

Fights take place around the objectives. Even if you are flying a GS, you will most likely come within 15k of the objectives but give a bit of a buffer zone and call it 20k. If a ship does not enter the conflict envelope around an objective they get no credit.

 

Now, this would not prevent people from just flying to the outer edge of the A or C objectives and parking within 20k hoping no one bothers them which is why you could also require a certain number of medals earned. Even when I pull pure GS suppression duty I can get 4 medals and it would seem to be an easy fix to add...call them "combat hours" medals...that you would have to have a minimum number of before you got credit for the match. You would earn one of these every 30 seconds that you either do damage or are damaged in combat or are within 3k of an objective. They wouldn't even have to show up on the list, but you would have to have a combination of these and regular medals in order for the match to qualify. Even the worst pilot in space can do or get damaged every 30 seconds even if they are horribly confused about the whole system and at the least they will head to where the action is.

 

It's sad that there are people so lame and lazy that they can't even spend 20 minutes actually earning their rewards. I'm sure these are the same types of people that still have their mommies put out their clothes before they go to wherever losers go during the day.

[GooseGrims]

cant even play my empire toon on shadowlands now cause half the team is always afk. i just dont understand it they want to grind the points and upgrade their ships that they never actually use?!

 

getting to the point im only going to do the daily on that character now and play my sage. and i do still try in vein but when it gets to the point its at 800-50 i park too and wait for it to end so i can Q again and hope im not with those ppl.

 

this is such a fun expansion and makes me all nostalgic for SWG but these ppl are sucking the fun right out of it. pls Mr and Mrs Dev''s bring down the hammer!

[abercromb]

I play on Red Eclipse and have found it is worse in the afternoons. Any time within a few hours of the daily coming up can be bad. By the time it get's into the evening though apart from the odd one it's pretty much normal players.

 

It goes back to my idea that it is players just there for the daily, two losses and they change character. What I can't understand though is why the Dev's didn't think of this. If I could walk into any operation or flashpoint and complete my daily and weekly by killing nothing, doing nothing. It would be classed as an exploit and there would be a fix of some sort incoming fast. So I hope someone in the star fighter team is looking at this thread. If this stays until the next two releases of Star fighter to players, including free to play people. It is going to get much worse and put a lot of people off.

[wishingwell]

My real concern over this is does it help or make things worse? Even though it's small, leeches would become free points for the other side. I just don't think the solution is to turn them from useless members to useless members feeding free points to the enemy. This also only works for one single type of match, if we get things like a death match, or a non-objective point match afkers become a devastating liability.

 

While I do see what you mean, by the time you're all in a group together, they're already a potentially devastating liability. Even with a vote kick system, that is valuable time wasted and a member lost for a (most likely) large part of a match. The only way to stop them from being a liability is to prevent them from entering the match flat out, and I don't think that's plausible.

 

In other words... you are already screwed once one of these people gets on your team. How they are removed is largely irrelevant, so you may as well stick with the simplest method.

 

Forcing the players to leave spawn by means of an automated system is, in my opinion, the fairest option. It's also the simplest option, and it has a built-in deterrent -- forcing the AFKer to participate, even if it's only by moving, dying, and moving again, will most likely lower the number of AFKers. If I have to choose between giving someone a free ride or annoying someone who wants a free ride... I'll take annoying them.

 

As for the whole vote kick system idea, I've been thinking about it some more. Honestly, I don't see how a vote kick system is going to work in GSF anyhow, given the controls. Unless, of course, it means you could vote while dead or at a standstill with a list in front of you, which are both going to take a long time to rack up enough votes. Maybe it's just me, but when I play GSF I'm fully involved in shooting and turning and trying to stay alive... I don't see how I'd reliably have time to check someone's stats and vote yes or no to kick them. Not only that, but there's potential to abuse it and I'd really rather not add another headache into the game. I know some people will blindly vote "yes" on a kick without even knowing why. I also know the vote kick system for PVP has been bugged at times (long story short -- player was sitting in the corner in stealth during an Arena match and not contributing; we couldn't kick them out... happened once with a Sin and once with a Smuggler so far, and I'm not even that into ground PVP any more).

 

Having a reduced chance to be teamed with someone who is on your Ignore list would be nice, though. I understand why it's not impossible, as one person could be holding up a whole team simply because their Ignore list is bloated... but it would be nice to have a reduced chance, at least. Maybe shove the ignored player to the back of the line or something. Would increase the incentive to not be a jerkface, maybe.

[Yorumi]

While I do see what you mean, by the time you're all in a group together, they're already a potentially devastating liability. Even with a vote kick system, that is valuable time wasted and a member lost for a (most likely) large part of a match. The only way to stop them from being a liability is to prevent them from entering the match flat out, and I don't think that's plausible.

 

In other words... you are already screwed once one of these people gets on your team. How they are removed is largely irrelevant, so you may as well stick with the simplest method.

 

Well that's why I was arguing for a system that punishes them for going afk. If they got 0 req and no quest credit, or better yet lost req, for not meeting certain minimum standards you'd put an end to afk real quick.

[GooseGrims]

Well that's why I was arguing for a system that punishes them for going afk. If they got 0 req and no quest credit, or better yet lost req, for not meeting certain minimum standards you'd put an end to afk real quick.

 

that could ruin it though, in every pvp game you have good players, you have your bad players, and everyone in between. if the bar is set too low than it doesnt fix the issue, if its set to high than your punishing ppl for not being good.

[Yorumi]

that could ruin it though, in every pvp game you have good players, you have your bad players, and everyone in between. if the bar is set too low than it doesnt fix the issue, if its set to high than your punishing ppl for not being good.

 

I know I addressed that the first time I posted it. You set it so stupidly low no one is that bad, but it makes everyone at least engage in combat some. The idea is not to make an invincible, perfect system, it's to make defeating the system not worth the effort. With an afk timer and a few flags you make it more difficult to go afk than to just play the match and the people who are already playing don't notice the system at all. And before we rehash anymore I already addressed the ease of implementing a system like this. The programing is simple and the most difficult task is just selecting the metrics.

[abercromb]

I know I addressed that the first time I posted it. You set it so stupidly low no one is that bad, but it makes everyone at least engage in combat some. The idea is not to make an invincible, perfect system, it's to make defeating the system not worth the effort. With an afk timer and a few flags you make it more difficult to go afk than to just play the match and the people who are already playing don't notice the system at all. And before we rehash anymore I already addressed the ease of implementing a system like this. The programing is simple and the most difficult task is just selecting the metrics.

 

I'm with him

[GooseGrims]

I know I addressed that the first time I posted it. You set it so stupidly low no one is that bad.

 

but if its set too low its easy to work around it, im not a programmer ( i know your shocked lol ) so there could be many ways to detect afkers im not thinking of but what if they just kept it a secret and have multiple ways of detecting them and really not make it worth the effort.

[Yorumi]

but if its set too low its easy to work around it, im not a programmer ( i know your shocked lol ) so there could be many ways to detect afkers im not thinking of but what if they just kept it a secret and have multiple ways of detecting them and really not make it worth the effort.

 

Well of course they'd keep it secret but it wouldn't remain so for long. I've mostly covered this already but here's a simple system:

 

monitor assists, damage, dps, time within x distance of spawn, time within x distance of satellites, total distance traveled, and objective points. At the end of the match each one of these trips a flag(ie. if(damage < 3000) set flag). Then you check if a number of flags are tripped. So if(totalFlags >3) then punish player. Might be better with the logic reversed but that's a minor detail and irrelevant to the current discussion.

 

Obviously those values are just examples and would be determined on implementation, as well as what the punishment is(no exp/quest credit, or lose req etc). It's also obviously done in an extremely simple and unpolished manor. What it creates though is a highly adaptable system that works on all match types(i'm sure we'll get more in the future), is entirely unobtrusive because it doesn't lock you into one single activity, while also making it cumbersome enough for those trying to beat it that it is easier to just simply play the match.

 

You could combine it with an afk timer and maybe other things but i doubt it would be necessary. Afkers get punished, regular players don't even really know it's there, it's easy to implement, adaptable, and it should solve the problem.

[Grayseven]

X actions every Y seconds earn Z credit, count medals, damage done and damage taken and you have a system that anyone actually playing the game can easily get while ensuring people not actively engaged in the game get nothing.

[Kain_Turinbar]

It is difficult to think of a way to prevent this without penalising players that have lagged out or simply have yet to master how to fly. But you should not be able to complete a daily by sitting at the base ship all match.

 

I did think of a minimum damage requirement to complete a daily? But that would penalise those players who defend the sat's and may not do much damage in a match. Of course those players do get medals. So what about a minimum damage or medals to complete dailies? Just an idea.

 

As it stands if you d/c during a match you get nothing. It's happened to me 3 times so far and all when victory was all but assured (team at 900+, in control with huge lead).

[DEATHICIDE]

Noob and/or generally skill-less player flys into a GSF match,

 

Said waste of space gets absoutely schooled on a regular basis,

 

Noob has a false sense of pride and really doesn't like it when the scoreboard shows that they have 10 deaths and 1 kill with 1 assist,

 

Noob learns that the capital ship has some big guns that destroys anything within range, so

 

What does the noob do once it starts to lose????

 

Camps the capital ship area hoping to cherry pick the odd kill, and turns tail and runs the second an enemy with intact shields gets anywhere near firing range.

 

Could this be what is being witnessed?

 

Waiting out an entire match and racking up ignores from angry players hardly seems like an efficient use of time as far as XP gains go, but cowardice would explain it all.

[renegadeimp]

Noob and/or generally skill-less player flys into a GSF match,

 

Said waste of space gets absoutely schooled on a regular basis,

 

Noob has a false sense of pride and really doesn't like it when the scoreboard shows that they have 10 deaths and 1 kill with 1 assist,

 

Noob learns that the capital ship has some big guns that destroys anything within range, so

 

What does the noob do once it starts to lose????

 

Camps the capital ship area hoping to cherry pick the odd kill, and turns tail and runs the second an enemy with intact shields gets anywhere near firing range.

 

Could this be what is being witnessed?

 

Waiting out an entire match and racking up ignores from angry players hardly seems like an efficient use of time as far as XP gains go, but cowardice would explain it all.

 

What does the good gunship pilot do? Destroy the turrets then the player.

[DEATHICIDE]

What does the good gunship pilot do? Destroy the turrets then the player.

 

You can't destroy the capital ship's turrets... what game have you been playing?

[MrShmoove]

Would suggest to say remove all XP gain from PvP completely, would solve some of the issues out there.

 

For the daily/weekly only grant req. no coins or XP.

 

You will only get coins from the GSF area if you have 4 medals and above, and maybe a bunch of XP as well if you get to have 10 medals or more.

 

Mentioned suggestions would eliminate freeloaders in general, would benefit both the Dirt side and space PvP in general with some more quality time.

 

It would also remove the exploit of people pvping to level 55 creating more life on the quite abandoned planets we already have by now as it is.

 

Ewww that's a HORRIBLE suggestion! I only level my toons via WZ pvp, now starfighter pvp and class quests. So your saying to players like myself your sol?

[abercromb]

Wasn't so bad on my server yesterday. Could be that I didn't start playing until late in the day and I missed them. Had a really good win though, with us controlling all 3 satellites for most of the game. Not any easy thing when it is 8 vs 8. May be they had some leaches?

[wishingwell]

Camps the capital ship area hoping to cherry pick the odd kill, and turns tail and runs the second an enemy with intact shields gets anywhere near firing range.

 

Could this be what is being witnessed?

 

Maybe some are doing this, but you can mouse-over the green dots on the map and see which player is which dot. You can even see when someone hasn't even clicked "ready" and are just sitting on the ship select portion (they'll have a pink hourglass next to their name I believe... if not an hourglass, then something else that isn't green). If I see someone is sitting at spawn while I'm waiting to redeploy, I'll check the chatbox to see if they also died recently. It gets real easy to tell who just sat at the spawn and who actually moved out onto the map once you know to look for these things.

[Galtin]

During one match very early in the match with maybe 1-2 minutes elapsed my dog started throwing up all over the carpet so I immediately got up to take him outside and then clean up the carpet. When I got back to my computer a few minutes later I was on the Ship Select screen so I selected the Ready button. The match ended a few seconds after I got back. I got roughly 300 requisition for essentially doing nothing. I'm guessing one of the first enhancements that will be added to GSF is some form of anti-AFK code similar to WZs where you need to get X amount of medals to get any requisition.

[abercromb]

During one match very early in the match with maybe 1-2 minutes elapsed my dog started throwing up all over the carpet so I immediately got up to take him outside and then clean up the carpet. When I got back to my computer a few minutes later I was on the Ship Select screen so I selected the Ready button. The match ended a few seconds after I got back. I got roughly 300 requisition for essentially doing nothing. I'm guessing one of the first enhancements that will be added to GSF is some form of anti-AFK code similar to WZs where you need to get X amount of medals to get any requisition.

 

Yeah I would think so. We after all in the 1st stage of the release. Lots need to be added. Some sort of balance system so new or newish players don't get put against people with loads of upgrades. We also need to sort out the issue of sitting at the start point and getting a reward.