New Tank spec

[Methoxa]

I was testing on alternative tankspecs and currently i am using one that kinda seems better than the traditional spec (36/8/2).

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101GMRbddM0MZcGrMb0sobZo.3

 

Let me explain :

First of all you can use Force scream all 9 seconds. Also its shield will therefore absorb dmg all 9 seconds.Increasing your hps from the shield from 120hps to 160hps.

 

The use of Smash doesnt cost any rage ( but does less dmg and has a higher cd compared to the traditional spec)

 

You have 4% Damage reduction passively ( Traditional spec gives you 3% when using crushing blow)

Impale does good damage ( your threat and your dps increase they can be compared to an assa tank dps)

 

Bigges drawback in my optinion is that you have 5% less internal/elemental dmg reduction.

 

Furthermore your rageconsumption is higher, still have to find out a rotation.

 

This build is more a single target spec, but in Hardmodes you wont hold aggro when it comes to aoe regardless which build you have so why bother with aoe tanking build?

 

I tested this build in several (Storymode) Ops and my dps was always more than 1200. Maybe this build is the way to go for Nim operations as dps are crucial there and the tank also has to deliver good dps. Even tanking 3 or 4 mobs wasnt a problem without mass taunt as impale generates enough threat to bind them on you.

 

I would like some discussion about the 2 speccs especially for Nim content.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Methoxa

[anwg]

Not only your rage consumption is higher, your rage generation will be worse as well. I'm not convinced it'll do more damage than full immortal.

[KeyboardNinja]

I actually already have a profile for this spec in my tanking math. It uses the same itemization as full Immortal, which is nice because it means you don't need different gear, but the mitigation profile is different. Here's the kicker: in general, this spec is more survivable than full Immortal. For example, with a stat budget of 2700 and full 75 armorings (higher is better):

 

• Immortal - 72.01%
  
• Hybrid - 72.55%
  

 

For comparison:

 

• Assassin - 72.39%
  
• Powertech - 73.91%
  

 

The big downside is that threat is lower, especially snap threat and AoE. Losing out on Crushing Blow is really, really unfortunate, and it makes tanking against high-burst DPS a lot harder. It's quite good for high-damage bosses though (most notably, Nefra).

[Marb]

This isn't anything new, it's almost the same hybrid tank spec from pre 2.0.

 

It comes with some severe drawbacks after they supercharged the full immortal tree in 2.0. Less dps; crushing blow is not even comparable to impale after 2.0, retaliation has longer cd and no guaranteed proc, no backhand, no sweeping fury, only 1/2 decimate. No cooldown reduction on invincible or duration extension/threat on saber reflect (we are already too reliant on these cooldowns).

 

Interesting how the shield specialization can be included now due to the restructuring of the trees, pre 2.0 it was too high up to attain for hybrids.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Marb

[Methoxa]

I didnt say it was a new specc but a new spec for me^^

 

I changed my former spec so that i have backhand now but 0/0 in decimate. Aoe aggro isnt a problem with saber reflect + mass taunt. My single target dps is higher than full immortal. Having 1200dps and its burstier due to impale. Impale does more damage than crushing blow but produces less aggro as crushing blow is a high threat talent. I made up a good rotation including the skill which builds up 2 rage (forgot its name). No more rage dumps . Single target threat isnt a problem either as i am using a taunt rotation. So the only real downside might be the 4% less elemtal/internal reuction.

 

btw. Saber ward still produces threat even though its not skilled. The talent only gives threat when it is activated, but the damage it produces isnt producing a high amount of threat when it is skilled.

 

The invincible thing you said is true thats really a drawback, but for that you get a new def cd giving you 15% defense reduction and a seslf heal ( not as strong as invincible).

Edited December 20, 2013 by Methoxa

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

I didnt say it was a new specc but a new spec for me^^

 

I changed my former spec so that i have backhand now but 0/0 in decimate. Aoe aggro isnt a problem with saber reflect + mass taunt. My single target dps is higher than full immortal. Having 1200dps and its burstier due to impale. Impale does more damage than crushing blow but produces less aggro as crushing blow is a high threat talent. I made up a good rotation including the skill which builds up 2 rage (forgot its name). No more rage dumps . Single target threat isnt a problem either as i am using a taunt rotation. So the only real downside might be the 4% less elemtal/internal reuction.

 

btw. Saber ward still produces threat even though its not skilled. The talent only gives threat when it is activated, but the damage it produces isnt producing a high amount of threat when it is skilled.

 

The invincible thing you said is true thats really a drawback, but for that you get a new def cd giving you 15% defense reduction and a seslf heal ( not as strong as invincible).

 

Problem is, when you use Enraged Defence you lose threat. So you would have to use a Taunt or something to get that threat back. In Pre 2.0 my dad used a build where he took Unstoppable and the rest in the tank tree, it worked really well, then he had to switch to full immortal because BW decided, Let's take away Unstoppable from the other classes! It actually made me really sad, cause i was going to use the same build when i got around to my juggernaut...

[Jahar]

Aoe aggro isnt a problem with saber reflect + mass taunt.

 

Wrong. You're not even spec'd into the talent that adds a high threat modifier to Saber Reflect.

 

This build might be viable where even the smallest increase in raid dps is needed, but otherwise the dps gained does not make up for the talents lost in full immortal.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Jahar

[Lymain]

I actually already have a profile for this spec in my tanking math. It uses the same itemization as full Immortal, which is nice because it means you don't need different gear, but the mitigation profile is different. Here's the kicker: in general, this spec is more survivable than full Immortal. For example, with a stat budget of 2700 and full 75 armorings (higher is better):

 

• Immortal - 72.01%
  
• Hybrid - 72.55%
  

 

For comparison:

 

• Assassin - 72.39%
  
• Powertech - 73.91%
  

 

The big downside is that threat is lower, especially snap threat and AoE. Losing out on Crushing Blow is really, really unfortunate, and it makes tanking against high-burst DPS a lot harder. It's quite good for high-damage bosses though (most notably, Nefra).

 

Does that math factor in cooldowns at all? I imagine Enraged Defense would be quite nice on Nefra with the hybrid while obviously the shorter cooldown on Invincible and longer duration on Saber Reflect are advantages for full Immortal.

[lordbadtamaru]

Being a threat drop that reduces threat when taking damage, enraged defense is horrid for pve tanking. In addition is already horrid for DPS as a threat drop as I'm sure all the vocal guards/juggs know ^_^.

 

mmmm as a PVP cooldown, I can see the benefit in some ways, at the cost of complete castration of damage.

[KeyboardNinja]

Does that math factor in cooldowns at all? I imagine Enraged Defense would be quite nice on Nefra with the hybrid while obviously the shorter cooldown on Invincible and longer duration on Saber Reflect are advantages for full Immortal.

 

It doesn't take into account cooldowns. If you consider defensive cooldowns, even a conservative estimation of their value pushes full Immortal above the hybrid. My calculations are specifically looking at passive (with active procs) survivability of each tank.

[Methoxa]

Thanks for the feedback, switched back to full immortal because i saw that the threat generation was a problem. Having 0,5% less dmg income on nefra isnt that good as i am only getting 1400dtps with full imortal, 100dps less isnt much there. The dps however were quite good in most fight i was able to sustain more than 1k dps however 200dps more shouldnt make a real difference even not in Nim operations. But still its an interesting build and when juggernauts will ever be changed it would be a nice idea to try that build again.

[Marb]

Thanks for the feedback, switched back to full immortal because i saw that the threat generation was a problem. Having 0,5% less dmg income on nefra isnt that good as i am only getting 1400dtps with full imortal, 100dps less isnt much there. The dps however were quite good in most fight i was able to sustain more than 1k dps however 200dps more shouldnt make a real difference even not in Nim operations. But still its an interesting build and when juggernauts will ever be changed it would be a nice idea to try that build again.

 

I'm still not convinced that a hybrid would be doing more dps, unless you aren't maximizing retaliation in full immortal. I wouldn't dismiss the hybrid entirely though. Like Lymain said, consider off-tanking nefra, one of the few situations where a jugg off-tank should be using enraged defense on cooldown.

 

Along with the higher passive reduction, you would be getting 15% reduced damage for 10 seconds every 45 seconds in addition to the heal. A hybrid jugg off-tank would take significantly less damage assuming they could generate the rage to feed enraged defense. At least on nefra, hybrid has the advantage over full immortal.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Marb