Good Pilots need a nerf

[Brewski]

Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that Good Pilots are ruining Galactic Starfighter?

 

Now I know that there are tweaks that need to be made to this component or that skill, and I'm not debating those, at least not in this thread. Beneath all of this, though, is a rather startling, and as yet unmentioned, common theme.

 

1. Good Pilots dominate matches when they fly gunships.
   
2. Good Pilots dominate matches when they fly scouts.
   
3. Good Pilots dominate matches when they fly strike fighters.
   

 

Shocking, no? I mean when I start a match and I see the other side has a lot of Good Pilots, I know we're in trouble, especially if our side does not have at least as many Good Pilots as they have. Good Pilots are ruining the curve, and they need a nerf. I'm not sure how the Devs missed this in the beta, as many of us pointed the problem out, but it's only getting worse by the day.

 

What I propose may sound drastic, but I think it needs to be done.

1. For every third kill a pilot gets in a match without dying they should suffer a 10% debuff on armor and damage.
   
2. For every 10 wins they have above loses in their history, pilots should suffer a permanent -1% hit modifier and a -1% evasion modifier.
   
3. Pilots who are flagged by members of the opposite team as Good Pilots should immediately self destruct on leaving the spawn zone.
   

 

Now I know a lot of Good Pilots are going to come in here and try to deny their advantage, but to me it's very clear. Good Pilots need a nerf. Period.

[Danylia]

I smiled.

 

Of course, good pilots don't need a nerf. What they "need" is being matched against equal amount of equally good pilots, instead against not-so-good pilots or even new players trying GSF for the first time.

[RahzZalinto]

I smiled.

 

Of course, good pilots don't need a nerf. What they "need" is being matched against equal amount of equally good pilots, instead against not-so-good pilots or even new players trying GSF for the first time.

 

 

That suggestion is almost as bad as the joke thread lol.. bad pilots need to be reminded they are bad, by dying to good pilots.

[Imaslicer]

That suggestion is almost as bad as the joke thread lol.. bad pilots need to be reminded they are bad, by dying to good pilots.

 

I agree, if I don't get atleast 15 kills a match, how am I going to feel good about myself.

[RahzZalinto]

I agree, if I don't get atleast 15 kills a match, how am I going to feel good about myself.

 

Exactly. When I come home from lunch break and pwn noobs, it helps the rest of my day at work be more productive

Edited December 18, 2013 by RahzZalinto

[Svarthrafn]

I don't care how the matchmaking works. As long as there are people who still think coming to a complete stop is a good idea.

 

Love burning those guys down.

[Cashal]

I don't care how the matchmaking works. As long as there are people who still think coming to a complete stop is a good idea.

 

Love burning those guys down.

 

Mometarily coming to a complete stop? Useful (less if the other pilot is smart). . . .

 

 

Staying at a complete stop. . . Agree. Dumb =p

[Necriol]

Nerf everything. Revert to Pong.

[Cashal]

I smiled.

 

Of course, good pilots don't need a nerf. What they "need" is being matched against equal amount of equally good pilots, instead against not-so-good pilots or even new players trying GSF for the first time.

 

 

Heh, How would you do this? I would just make an alt to get put again in the lower tier

[paowee]

Heh, How would you do this? I would just make an alt to get put again in the lower tier

 

And would have to farm requisition again to get your upgrades

Edited December 18, 2013 by paowee

[Imaslicer]

I don't care how the matchmaking works. As long as there are people who still think coming to a complete stop is a good idea.

 

Love burning those guys down.

 

it IS a good idea, given the right circumstances.

 

Not only does it nullify your tracking penalty, but the idiot shooting at you usually come in a straight line, allowing me and my distortion field + blaster overcharge to smoke him and possible another fool before I have to take off again.

 

Yes, I've done this many times, and people don't learn...

[Merwanor]

They need a PvE version with bots or something so that I and other useless pilots can get some training... I can't seem to survive more than a maximum half a minute before I get blown up by missiles. And it is always freaking missiles.

[Danylia]

I smiled.

 

Of course, good pilots don't need a nerf. What they "need" is being matched against equal amount of equally good pilots, instead against not-so-good pilots or even new players trying GSF for the first time.

Heh, How would you do this? I would just make an alt to get put again in the lower tier

I posted the suggestion in one of the other threads. Don't base the matchmaking on the upgrade level (not primarily, at least), but base it on the matches played/matches won ratio which is legacy wide.

[ToMyMa]

Mometarily coming to a complete stop? Useful (less if the other pilot is smart). . . .

 

 

Staying at a complete stop. . . Agree. Dumb =p

 

Well, it's fun hunkering down under a satellite in a gunship with burst lasers when the opponents are too stupid to simply fly down under me and pummel me with missles and stuff

 

Gotta love it, reminds me of the good ol' days back when nobody knew how an interrupt worked, 'twas the supreme reign of mandos!

[Necriol]

While I realize this is a joke thread, I think OP, potentially unwittingly, touched on a salient point.

 

Much of the griping about 'balance' stems from GSF having a very low skill-floor and a very high skill-ceiling. Players that don't know what they're doing or don't have properly upgraded ships are pretty much totally ineffective, whereas it can seem at times that good pilots just god-mode around and rack up the kills. Some people realize they're not very good pilots and just want the skill-gap to be narrowed, and the only way they can think to achieve this is to 'nerf' the things that they perceive as being responsible for said skill-gap. Some people just can't come to terms with the fact that there are people out there who are better pilots than them, so the fact that someone was able to thwart them with X is evidence that X is overpowered.

 

Having a big skill-gap is an issue, that's why the goal of matchmaking systems is to cluster people of similar skill/gear levels together. Since I don't have any analytics on hand this is just a theory, but my guess is that the GSF population is just not large enough to always prevent the situation where exceptional pilots are matched up with total newbies, which of course is going to end in a massacre and create the perception that X is overpowered.

[archifikoss]

I posted the suggestion in one of the other threads. Don't base the matchmaking on the upgrade level (not primarily, at least), but base it on the matches played/matches won ratio which is legacy wide.

 

I don't think this would work. Imps lose 90% of the time so the skilled pilots on their side would inevitably wind up with the less skilled, and probably 9 out of 10 fights would turn out to be Pub - Pub and Imp - Imp simulations regardless of actual pilot skill "level" Winning in GSF is less about individual skill and more about coordination and proper team play - which favors the organized groups but not the typical PUG.

 

It's hard to be an Imp on GSF

 

The only thing that would help would be cross server queuing IMO, I think there are just not enough concurrent queuers for the matchmaking system to work as intended.

Edited December 19, 2013 by archifikoss

[NomineImperator]

Putting aside the fact that franky, this game doesn't have the numbers to support matchmaking - that's why Ranked PVP queues are often such deserts - it won't help new players learn to fly either. I went into GSF without doing the tutorial. All I did was read the keybindings, then launched. I died a LOT. But every time I did, I learned something I shouldn't be doing. I shouldn't fly in a straight line, I shouldn't linger in open space, I shouldn't try to do tight turns around antennae, I shouldn't try to go between the light-displays on satellites, I shouldn't fly straight at gunships. After I stopped dieing 10 times in a match, then I started learning what I should do to kill people. I shouldn't try locking missiles on a target doing circles around a satellite. I shouldn't joust with a fighter in a scout. I shouldn't ignore gunships.

 

Dieing is how people learn in games like this. People just need to get used to it and actually learn something. Matchmaking would make the bad get worse (and quit) and make the good get better (and bored and quit).

 

People need to stop doing what they think on paper is effective and start observing what actually works, too. People who waste minutes of time flying in asteroid fields or out in open space dogfighting instead of battling over objectives make me grind my teeth. People who try to use missiles without even resorting to blasters, ignoring them entirely, or try locking on missiles to people fighting at objectives at max range like they won't react. If you want to win, fly like you do. Don't expect other people to change how they fly to accommodate you.

Edited December 19, 2013 by NomineImperator

[BrianDavion]

ya know, as someone who is proably one of those better pilots the idea of a "handicap mode" is an intreasting idea. a mode where you take disadvantages and earn more "something" per point. no clue how it'd work and it screams as something that'd be exploited to me, but it's an intreasting idea non-the less

[Danylia]

I don't think this would work. Imps lose 90% of the time so the skilled pilots on their side would inevitably wind up with the less skilled, and probably 9 out of 10 fights would turn out to be Pub - Pub and Imp - Imp simulations regardless of actual pilot skill "level" Winning in GSF is less about individual skill and more about coordination and proper team play - which favors the organized groups but not the typical PUG.

 

It's hard to be an Imp on GSF

 

The only thing that would help would be cross server queuing IMO, I think there are just not enough concurrent queuers for the matchmaking system to work as intended.

Unfortunately, yes I think you are right. My suggestion would work in case of faction balance, but as things look now you would probably get three Republic groups with average ratio 0,9 0,7 and 0,6, and three Imperial groups with average ratio 0,6 0,4 and 0,1.

 

Dieing is how people learn in games like this. People just need to get used to it and actually learn something. Matchmaking would make the bad get worse (and quit) and make the good get better (and bored and quit).

I politely disagree. Not with the first sentence, that I agree with. However there is a (big) difference between dying because of inexperience, and dying because the other side farms me pretty much after I leave the spawn zone. In the first case I'll probably be willing to go and try again. In the second, not so much.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Danylia

[prokonto]

While I realize this is a joke thread, I think OP, potentially unwittingly, touched on a salient point.

 

Much of the griping about 'balance' stems from GSF having a very low skill-floor and a very high skill-ceiling. Players that don't know what they're doing or don't have properly upgraded ships are pretty much totally ineffective, whereas it can seem at times that good pilots just god-mode around and rack up the kills. Some people realize they're not very good pilots and just want the skill-gap to be narrowed, and the only way they can think to achieve this is to 'nerf' the things that they perceive as being responsible for said skill-gap. Some people just can't come to terms with the fact that there are people out there who are better pilots than them, so the fact that someone was able to thwart them with X is evidence that X is overpowered.

 

Having a big skill-gap is an issue, that's why the goal of matchmaking systems is to cluster people of similar skill/gear levels together. Since I don't have any analytics on hand this is just a theory, but my guess is that the GSF population is just not large enough to always prevent the situation where exceptional pilots are matched up with total newbies, which of course is going to end in a massacre and create the perception that X is overpowered.

 

This...

[CaliJoe]

So, how am I going to learn to *not* suck at zero kills? I think it's called "work" and "effort". Just like all the sports I have done in my lifetime. I sucked enough until I learned not to suck and be ...mediocre.

[RCSlyman]

Well, it's fun hunkering down under a satellite in a gunship with burst lasers when the opponents are too stupid to simply fly down under me and pummel me with missles and stuff

 

Gotta love it, reminds me of the good ol' days back when nobody knew how an interrupt worked, 'twas the supreme reign of mandos!

 

I do this in my scout sometimes when I'm guarding a node (hey, don't look at me like that, even I like to take it easy from time to time). In Lost Shipyards, I'll typically sit on the the sat at C, just racking up defense points, and watch my map for a blip headed my way. Quick target, wait out of LOS for them, line up the shot for when they clear the obstruction, and start firing. In Kuat Mesas, I'll actually bury up in a nook of the scaffolding and wait for someone to come in, then boost on after them. It's just fun ambushing people.

 

Putting aside the fact that franky, this game doesn't have the numbers to support matchmaking - that's why Ranked PVP queues are often such deserts - it won't help new players learn to fly either. I went into GSF without doing the tutorial. All I did was read the keybindings, then launched. I died a LOT. But every time I did, I learned something I shouldn't be doing. I shouldn't fly in a straight line, I shouldn't linger in open space, I shouldn't try to do tight turns around antennae, I shouldn't try to go between the light-displays on satellites, I shouldn't fly straight at gunships. After I stopped dieing 10 times in a match, then I started learning what I should do to kill people. I shouldn't try locking missiles on a target doing circles around a satellite. I shouldn't joust with a fighter in a scout. I shouldn't ignore gunships.

 

I started out much the same as you, but man... that list. You DON'T fly through the "solar arms" of the sats? That's like, one of those psychological things, when you slip between them and turn back on someone following you. Just like weaving through the scaffolding of Kuat Mesas' B node. Flying straight at gunships works, if you have the right upgrades. So does head-to-head with a strike fighter in a scout. Key is having the right build for it. People think "oh, a squishy scout is flying right at me, easy *BOOM!*.... f***." Start locking missiles while chasing someone around a sat. Why? It makes people panic, especially if you get that lock established. They hit their lock break, which sometimes makes them crash into that sat. Or they crash themselves as they try to fly tighter or faster. Play mind games with them, psychological warfare is FUN!

 

For clarification, when I said flying between the "solar arms" (my name for the light panels that show the objective status... because that's what they remind me of in a realistic sense), I didn't mean flying between two of those arms. I meant what I'm sure NomineImperator meant... that little gap in each of those arms.

Edited December 19, 2013 by RCSlyman

[Nomaad]

Okay, ill pretend to be bad all the time when someone is looking...

[Brewski]

While I realize this is a joke thread, I think OP, potentially unwittingly, touched on a salient point.

 

Much of the griping about 'balance' stems from GSF having a very low skill-floor and a very high skill-ceiling. Players that don't know what they're doing or don't have properly upgraded ships are pretty much totally ineffective, whereas it can seem at times that good pilots just god-mode around and rack up the kills. Some people realize they're not very good pilots and just want the skill-gap to be narrowed, and the only way they can think to achieve this is to 'nerf' the things that they perceive as being responsible for said skill-gap. Some people just can't come to terms with the fact that there are people out there who are better pilots than them, so the fact that someone was able to thwart them with X is evidence that X is overpowered.

 

Having a big skill-gap is an issue, that's why the goal of matchmaking systems is to cluster people of similar skill/gear levels together. Since I don't have any analytics on hand this is just a theory, but my guess is that the GSF population is just not large enough to always prevent the situation where exceptional pilots are matched up with total newbies, which of course is going to end in a massacre and create the perception that X is overpowered.

 

This is actually exactly the point I've tried to make in several of the other "balance" threads, and what lead me to post this (admittedly tongue-in-cheek) thread.

 

While I do think there are some minor balance tweaks needed, and a few minor exploits to be closed, I think the game itself is largely balanced. Are there a few changes needed? Probably yes, eventually, but nothing that I think is game breaking or time critical. Mostly the problem is the skill gap.

 

With such a small percentage of the user base (subscribers only) in the matchmaking pool, it's going to continue to be a problem. Once we add preferred players in, and definitely after we add FTP, you'll see better matches. In the mean time, the only solution is to die a lot and try to learn from it. If you run into a situation you can't figure out how to counter, ask on the forums and then try to put those ideas into use.

 

I do like the idea of making the matchmaking system work off your legacy matches and win/lose percentage, at least in part, if it doesn't already. It is a far better representation of player skill than current requisition levels.

[Danylia]

So, how am I going to learn to *not* suck at zero kills? I think it's called "work" and "effort". Just like all the sports I have done in my lifetime. I sucked enough until I learned not to suck and be ...mediocre.

The part about work and effort is undeniably true. However, anytime this argument is present, I like to ask: when you started with the sport, were you immediately competing against the best? (in tennis, for example, against the top X ATP players). Or did you start with a trainer and/or group of peers roughly of your level?