Breakdown of Gunship Issues and Suggested Fixes (from a confessed Gunship abuser)

[Nemarus]

I've been playing GSF since October, when I was invited into the closed beta. I've seen the game at its best and worst balanced. I survived the horror of Bombers, during the Drone Wars. I think that for the most part, GSF Early Access launched in a fairly decent state of balance.

 

That being said, I must confess that of late, I too have been spending most of my time playing the Gunship. This after I already spent significant time and resources upgrading Scout and Strike fighters. It's not that the Gunship alone allows me to defeat other players--anyone on Ebon Hawk can confirm that I usually do very well on my server, regardless of what I fly (mainly because I've been playing GSF since October). But the Gunship offers me such dominant power and versatility that there's really little point in me flying anything else--and that's an indication that something is out of balance.

I didn't want to "cry OP" until I'd had a chance to really experiment with the Gunship for a while and upgrade its various trees, but now that I have, I do believe there are several issues that deserve dev attention and consideration.

 

1) Ion Railgun: Once fully upgraded, the Ion Railgun's debuffs (6 second 40% slow or 6 seconds of no-regen) apply their full effect regardless of charge. That means I can give a "love tap" with my Ion Railgun that, while doing minimal damage, seriously cripples my target. In my case, I use the Slow upgrade. I fire multiple uncharged shots (as many as it takes for me to get a hit)--then once the target is slowed and easy to hit, I charge up another Ion Railgun shot which drops their shields and reapplies the Slow. Then I switch to Slug Railgun and finish them off.

 

Suggested Fix: All Railgun debuffs (whether from Ion, Slug or Plasma) should have a numerical magnitude, and that magnitude should be proportional to the amount of charge. For example, the Slow debuff above should only slow 40% if the shot is fully charged. If the shot is only half charged, the magnitude of the slow should be only 20% (half of 40%). If the shot has minimal charge, the slow should be 1% or less (i.e. not useful). The regen-block debuff would need to be changed to actually have a magnitude, represented as a regen penalty. For example at full charge it should be "6 seconds of 100% penalty to regen". At a quarter charge, it should be "6 seconds of 25% penalty to regen".

 

I do not recommend making debuff duration dependent on charge, as even a second or two of Slow can be lethally exploited/chained.

 

The above fix would apply to Plasma Railgun debuffs (armor reduction, evasion reduction) as well.

 

---

 

2) Barrel Roll: The Barrel Roll upgrade essentially gives the Gunship speed comparable to Scouts and Strikes. This seems counter to the in-game descriptions of the two Gunship classes. The Quarrel's "speed and maneuverability sit at the unimpressive gunship baseline" and the Mangler's "unimpressive speed is standard for the class". These descriptions seem to indicate that the Gunship should be slow and ponderous--and that is definitely true if you use any Engine Component besides Barrel Roll.

 

However, with Barrel Roll, you can:

* very quickly get from spawn to firing (or capture!) position with minimal engine cost

* very quickly get from one node to another

* very quickly evade a pursuer

* very quickly "pounce" on a node whose defenders you've wiped out from range

All of the above sound like activities that should be reserved for a Scout, but every Gunship can do them by default.

 

As such, it is very hard for non-Gunships to actually punish me. I fire at them or their node, and as soon as they close to blaster range, I Barrel Roll away. Often times I will firing at node defenders, and as soon as they leave the node to come chase me, I Barrel Roll to the node and get capture points on it while they try to catch up.

 

And if I do get overwhelmed and destroyed, my foes are offered only brief respite, because as soon as I respawn it takes me only a few seconds to get back into firing position. Barrel Roll is far superior/faster/cheaper for travel than using afterburners.

The issue is not that Barrel Roll gives missile evasion--it's that it effectively negates the need for afterburners because it throws you so far forward for so little engine cost. It also makes it so that there is no reason to even consider Interdiction Drive.

 

Bonus Issue: For most ships, using Barrel Roll involves a certain peril--it throws you forward, and once you start you can't stop and thus may end up colliding into something. But a Gunship further abuses Barrel Roll because it can stop on a dime by entering Railgun mode. This lets it Barrel Roll with much less risk of collision than other ships.

 

 

Suggested Fix: Remove Barrel Roll from Gunships and replace it with another missile-evading ability. Such an agile maneuver should be reserved for ships designed for dogfighting. I suggest replacing it with Retro Thrusters. This would give Gunships an option for a missile-evading maneuver, but Retro Thrusters would not pull double-duty as a means to travel swiftly across the map or evade pursuers.

 

And Gunship pilots who still want to be able to get away in a pinch can take Interdiction Drive, which seems to have been designed to allow Gunships to escape pursuers without giving them an inherent traveling speed boost, like Barrel Roll does.

 

---

 

3) Bypass and Slugs: Other threads have been posted about this, but in short, a fully-upgraded Slug Railgun, when combined with the Bypass co-pilot ability, can take out a Scout in one shot--regardless of how the Scout has built for defense.

Suggested Fix: Change Bypass to only work on primary weapons.

 

---

 

 

4) Burst Laser Cannons: Burst Laser Cannons give Gunships exceptional short-range power, which combined with Railguns gives them more too much versatility at any range. Gunships are one of two ship classes than can equip Burst Laser Cannons. For those that do not know, Burst Laser Cannons are extremely effective at short range, but very weak at longer range. This makes them ideal for close-combat fighting near objectives.

 

The problem is that by giving Gunships Burst Laser Cannons, you effectively negate what should be one of their weaknesses (i.e. when enemies get too close). Gunships are the only ship in the game which can equip both the most powerful long range weapon (railgun) and the most powerful short-range weapon (Burst Laser Cannons) and switch between them at will.

 

Not a lot of Gunship pilots take advantage of this yet, but I certainly do. I easily get as many kills using Barrel Roll to "pounce" on someone, and then using Burst Laser Cannons to finish them off, as I do by shooting them with a Railgun.

 

The combination of Railgun and Burst Laser Cannons means I am a one-man node-capturer. From long range, I can destroy three turrets with three shots. I can cripple any defenders I have line of sight on. And then I can Barrel Roll rush to the node and use my Burst Laser Cannons to clean up any orbiting defenders. Then I turn around and Railgun any incoming attackers before they can get close.

 

The only counter to me doing this is another skilled Gunship.

This is what lets me get 18 medals and single-handedly win matches for my team. I cannot do that in any of my other ships--they simply don't have the versatility.

 

Suggested Fix: Burst Laser Cannons should not be available for Gunships. It gives them too much short range power, when they already have maximum long range power. Instead, Gunships should be limited to the simpler short-range cannons, like Rapid Laser Cannons, Light Laser Cannons, and Laser Cannons. Basic weapons to use when you are forced to--not best-in-class weapons of choice for clearing nodes.

 

Sidenote: If any ship should have the ability to switch between long range weapons and Burst Laser Cannons, it should be the StarGuard/Rycer, as by their description they are supposed to be able to "engage foes at multiple distances" and "destroy foes at any range". Burst Laser Cannons should be added as an option to that ship to make them the kings of range versatility. Gunships should be long-range focused, with their primary weapon being a backup--not tool to focus on.

 

---

 

I hope that the above list is helpful. I'm sure some will agree with what I've posted, and others will disagree. Of those that disagree, I'm sure some will offer legitimate counters to aspects of the Gunships I've posted above. But I also suspect some will be Gunship pilots who don't want aspects of their gameplay nerfed or taken away.

 

I sympathize with them--I have a lot of fun dominating and winning in my Gunship as well. But at the same time, I also miss flying my other ships without feeling like I'm gimping myself and my team. And I know that right now, the state of Gunships is frustrating other players.

 

The fixes I have suggested, if implemented, will definitely significantly impact Gunship play. I would hope that BioWare would reset components that are substantially nerfed and refund any requisition that was used to upgrade them, so that players can reassess whether rebalanced components still fit with their desired playstyle and are worth requisition investment.

 

Or perhaps BioWare can find a way to buff other classes of ships to make them more appealing when compared to Gunships.

 

Thanks for your consideration and future discourse.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Nemarus

[Phantasym]

You make some very good points especially about the ion cannon debuff and the charge required. That needs looking at. Does anyone know if the plasma railguns DoT affect applies the full amount of DoT if it is not fully charged?

 

I also agree with what you said about barrel roll, I had always used rotational thrusters and never realized you could travel with Barrel roll that easily with a gunship so was always frustrated by how long it took to get to objectives and stuck with my scout which I have great fun hunting gunships on.

 

I disagree with you on the slug railgun and bypass though. I play a scout I have occasionally gotten 1 shot by one, but in over 150 matches it has happened maybe twice. I don't see this as a problem. There are several factors here. First only scouts can be one shot. 2nd all scouts have evasion which means there is a chance the shot will miss completely. Third it requires using a co-pilot ability in conjunction with an upgraded weapon, that co-pilot ability is on a 60 seconds cooldown. This means that once per minute they can get a very high armor piercing shot that may or may not hit. That doesn't sound over powered to me, and while no one like being blown up as a scout player I have no problem dealing with it, and respawning and going hunting for the guy that got me while he cooldown is not available.

 

Very constructive post, most of the antigunship post I see are just I don't like them they killed me type and don't include the same type of reasoning you posted.

[Uber_the_Goober]

SHHHHH!!! You're ruining it! This is the only way I can get anything done in that damnable twitch FPS in space!

[wilcou]

Wow, nice post mate! +1

 

I've seen this guy in action, one of the best pilots on my server. He knows what he's talking about

[wilcou]

I disagree with you on the slug railgun and bypass though. I play a scout I have occasionally gotten 1 shot by one, but in over 150 matches it has happened maybe twice. I don't see this as a problem. There are several factors here. First only scouts can be one shot. 2nd all scouts have evasion which means there is a chance the shot will miss completely. Third it requires using a co-pilot ability in conjunction with an upgraded weapon, that co-pilot ability is on a 60 seconds cooldown. This means that once per minute they can get a very high armor piercing shot that may or may not hit. That doesn't sound over powered to me, and while no one like being blown up as a scout player I have no problem dealing with it, and respawning and going hunting for the guy that got me while he cooldown is not available.

 

Bypass is extremely powerful, for any ship. It so far out-strips other co-pilot abilities that either it needs to be nerfed or the others need to be buffed

Edited December 16, 2013 by wilcou

[Cashal]

You forgot to mention the Barrel Roll / Aim Trick:

 

Meaning: While in mid barrel roll. You can force yourself to stop prematurely by zooming in the aim with your railgun. I doubt that was intended.

 

*Edit*

On Courtney's note of Bypass. . . It's one of the few ways I like to harass them as a gunship =p I can see why they dislikes it! I used it on her quite a few times the past day or two.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Cashal

[wilcou]

You forgot to mention the Barrel Roll / Aim Trick:

 

Meaning: While in mid barrel roll. You can force yourself to stop prematurely by zooming in the aim with your railgun. I doubt that was intended.

 

*Edit*

On Courtney's note of Bypass. . . It's one of the few ways I like to harass them as a gunship =p I can see why they dislikes it! I used it on her quite a few times the past day or two.

 

My hull! The shields do nothing!

[ObiWanJabroni]

I've been a strong supporter of the wait for more data crew, but if what you say is true about number one, I agree completely. You might have found the first thing that actually needs changed. A reasonable fix too, that doesn't break anything else.

 

I don't play a gunship often, so I wouldn't know. But I think we should wait longer for a nerf to bypass.

I flat out disagree about barrel roll. I completely **** on gunships when in my scout. Wouldn't even feel sporting if I didn't have to chase down my meal.

 

Really good catch on point number one though. Again, I rarely play my gunship, so it isn't anywhere near mastered. Also, just about every gunship pilot on my server must be horrible as well, because I've only encountered two with the slow.

[Itkovian]

Another winning post from Nemarus. Excellent work, and sums up my feelings concerning gunships extremely well.

 

Here are my comments to the suggestion:

 

1) Ion Railguns.

 

Completely agree. They're just FAR too effective at this point, basically putting anyone they can hit with an Ion Railgun at their mercy.

 

Gunships should be balance so that anyone who is hit by their attack has a chance to react and get away/engage the gunship. With the Ion Railgun as it stands, this is simply not the case, as you are more often than not rendered helpless by the first hit (which you of course don't know is coming and cannot defend against).

 

I would also suggest that the recharge delay debuff should NOT affect the "recently consumed" recharge. If someone wants to spec into regeneration to counter Ion weapon, they should still be able to reap that benefit (though they would be stuck at the "recently consumed" rate for a bit, of course).

 

2) Barrel Roll.

 

What an excellent suggestion, I completely agree with this. It would certainly make the Interdiction Drive more useful, and it is more appropriate. Barrel Roll should not be a gunship option.

 

3) Bypass and Slugs.

 

I agree that something must be done to prevent one-shots, for the same reason ion railguns need to be fixed. By definition, one-shots make it impossible to react to the unexpected attack (and anyone saying that you can defend against that first attack don't spend enough time fighting for objectives). How this can be fixed, however, I do not know.

 

4) Burst Lasers.

 

Completely agree. Combining the best long range and the best short range weapons is just the most baffling aspect of gunship balance. It makes no sense whatsoever. Gunships should be vulnerable at medium to short range, and giving them the best short-range weapon in the game is ridiculous.

 

Also, I agree with giving the Star Guard burst lasers, it makes much more sense for that chassis than the Gunship (though the proliferation of burst lasers might lead to further issues with domination, as you've already noted in a previous thread).

 

In any case, excellent post, and excellent suggestions. Well done.

[Brewski]

Well thought out and set up post. I actually agree with you on 1 (Ion) and 3 (Bypass), although I worry that people want more of a nerf than is necessary. I think you could fairly easily modify the Ion effect to only occur in the top X% of the charging bar rather than try to scale all effects, and I think a bypass nerf should be no more than 3%. (Down to 32% instead of 35%.) Any more than that, and the skill is no longer worth having at all.

 

As I've said in other threads, I have no issues with gunships being able to one shot most scouts, but I do think it needs to be paired down enough that scouts designed against gunships cannot be one shot without a critical and bypass both. The same should be true with strikers, where they cannot be one shot at all.

 

Anyway, as for 2 and 4, I'm doubting they will remove the equipment from already in place ships. That would be a pretty huge nerf to specific ship classes, and I just don't see it as likely.

[Itkovian]

 

Anyway, as for 2 and 4, I'm doubting they will remove the equipment from already in place ships. That would be a pretty huge nerf to specific ship classes, and I just don't see it as likely.

 

See, personally I see those as more feasible than the others, simply because it would not require any significant coding changes: it is a simple matter of removing access to these components.

 

Granted, they would need to code the functionality to return spent requisitions, but that's something they need to do anyway.

 

But the point is, it's a relatively easy fix that can easily be adapted to, as there are already valid components to pick instead of the ones removed (sure, they're not as good, but that's the whole point).

[Nemarus]

You forgot to mention the Barrel Roll / Aim Trick:

 

Meaning: While in mid barrel roll. You can force yourself to stop prematurely by zooming in the aim with your railgun. I doubt that was intended.

 

 

Oh yeah, good catch. Forgot about that. I've added it to #2.

[Osoygatitalove]

Really good post m8, i remember you from closed beta (gatita here)

 

This should become a sticky thread for most gunship fans.

[Vember]

Great post, however all of this was brought up prior to 2.5 going live and the devs chose to ignore it. who knows when we will see gunships balanced correctly. If it's anything like class balance, we may be waiting for awhile. As it currently stands, gunships are easymode for bad pilots to get high kill counts, and you're already seeing a lot of voracious defenders coming out whenever posts like these pop up. Edited December 16, 2013 by Vember

[Brewski]

Great post, however all of this was brought up prior to 2.5 going live and the devs chose to ignore it. who knows when we will see gunships balanced correctly. If it's anything like class balance, we may be waiting for awhile. As it currently stands, gunships are easymode for bad pilots to get high kill counts, and you're already seeing a lot of voracious defenders coming out whenever posts like these pop up.

 

How do you account for those of us who don't fly gunships at all?

 

Personally, I love bad gunship pilots, as they are easy kills for me. It's the good ones I have to watch out for, and there are rarely more than one or two of those in a match.

[Yorumi]

3) Bypass and Slugs: Other threads have been posted about this, but in short, a fully-upgraded Slug Railgun, when combined with the Bypass co-pilot ability, can take out a Scout in one shot--regardless of how the Scout has built for defense.

Suggested Fix: Reduce/Eliminate Bypass co-pilot ability, such that a defensively upgraded Scout can never be one-shotted.

 

This is a tricky one for me. I actually think the larger problem is armor ignore. As it stands armor is not that appealing because so many common weapons once upgraded ignore 100% of armor. Right now once upgraded, heavy and burst laser cannons, rockets, concussions, protons, and theremite missiles, as well as slug railgun all ignore armor.

 

This to me makes building for heavy armor far less appealing than evasion or raw hp. At least with bypass no matter what weapon you're using(other than the 2 with 100% shield ignore) your shields are still doing something to reduce the damage, and it's only active for 15 seconds out of a minute. However, with no ability needed, nearly every common weapon is totally eliminating all armor entirely.

 

Personally I'd rather see all armor ignore(save for protons and theremite) reduced to some percentage less than 100%. If the slug railgun only had say 50% armor ignore any scout would be able to choose to equip reinforced armor to avoid a one shot. This would also serve to make charged plating more appealing, specially when we get bombers for healing.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Yorumi

[Phantasym]

I saw another thread someone talking about removing the boost from barrel roll all together, have it be purely a maneuver which rolls you making you harder to shoot and evading missiles without boosting you thousands of meters forward. This would keep its affective for pilots without making it a means to travel, leaving that to boost and energy regen as intended.

 

It would fix #2 without having to refund points someone spent requisition on. I think most scouts and strike fighters might like the fact that they have a missile evad usable in tight spaces too, the majority of suicides I see come from this maneuver.

[Lord_Of_Sith]

1) Ion Railgun:...

 

Suggested Fix: All Railgun debuffs (whether from Ion, Slug or Plasma) should have a numerical magnitude, and that magnitude should be proportional to the amount of charge.

Excellent idea; I support this 100%.

 

2) Barrel Roll: ...

The issue is not that Barrel Roll gives missile evasion--it's that it effectively negates the need for afterburners because it throws you so far forward for so little engine cost. ...

Suggested Fix: Remove Barrel Roll from Gunships and replace it with another missile-evading ability.

I generally agree with your analysis of Barrel Roll, but I think the issue is more than just gunships. Your statement of "it effectively negates the need for afterburners" is dead-on and applies to all ships alike. I know I personally take it on my fast scout because it is the fastest form of travel. I think the ability needs some tweaking for all ships, to bring it back to what it is supposed to be: a missile evader, not the optimal form of travel.

 

An idea that I would propose: have barrel roll leave a 20s debuff on the player. If the player has the debuff, barrel roll is still usable but will only launch them ~2-3km rather than the ~8-10km or whatever the distance is right now. This leaves its missile evading and temporary dogfight relief 100% intact, and leaves its occasional use 100% intact, but would remove its utility as a spammable travel mechanism that leaves everyone else in the dust.

 

3) Bypass and Slugs: Other threads have been posted about this, but in short, a fully-upgraded Slug Railgun, when combined with the Bypass co-pilot ability, can take out a Scout in one shot--regardless of how the Scout has built for defense.

 

For others' reference, here is a link to one of my posts made in one of the many threads on this issue:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7022049#post7022049

 

My ultimate conclusion on the issue is that bypass should be reduced to 34% rather than 35%, which would remove a gunships ability to have guaranteed one-shots on scouts that are built for hp (wouldn't remove crit/RNG one-shots).

 

4) Burst Laser Cannons

I have no opinion here, as I have not used these or noticed them being used against me (thank you distortion field ). However, everything you said seems to make sense.

[Itkovian]

I saw another thread someone talking about removing the boost from barrel roll all together, have it be purely a maneuver which rolls you making you harder to shoot and evading missiles without boosting you thousands of meters forward. This would keep its affective for pilots without making it a means to travel, leaving that to boost and energy regen as intended.

 

It would fix #2 without having to refund points someone spent requisition on. I think most scouts and strike fighters might like the fact that they have a missile evad usable in tight spaces too, the majority of suicides I see come from this maneuver.

 

The main drawback with THAT fix is that right now Barrel Roll is the best defensive maneuver again Gunships. Boost alone is rarely enough to take you out of the killzone, whereas a judicious application of Barrel Roll will save your arse (unless Ion Railgun drains engine power, of course, but we already know that's a major issue). To remove the boost component of Barrel Roll would be a significant buff to gunships in disguise (who STILL would have Interdiction Field as their escape mechanism, while everyone else would lose a major approach/pursuit ability).

 

Of course, fact is that the reason Barrel Roll is so important right now is because of Gunships (without it you're making yourself a much easier target for gunships), which is yet another example of how Gunships need fixing. .

[Umbrex]

I am a SWTOR fan who is reluctant.

 

I came back with Starfighter because it looks awesome, and it awesome. I travel for work (No laptop yet) so I wasn't able to catch up on SWTOR-related things.

 

I come back a few days to find that nearly everyone (80%) has a gunship except me. And to top it off, its unbalanced and two shots me pretty universally.

[Phantasym]

The main drawback with THAT fix is that right now Barrel Roll is the best defensive maneuver again Gunships. Boost alone is rarely enough to take you out of the killzone, whereas a judicious application of Barrel Roll will save your arse (unless Ion Railgun drains engine power, of course, but we already know that's a major issue). To remove the boost component of Barrel Roll would be a significant buff to gunships in disguise (who STILL would have Interdiction Field as their escape mechanism, while everyone else would lose a major approach/pursuit ability).

 

Of course, fact is that the reason Barrel Roll is so important right now is because of Gunships (without it you're making yourself a much easier target for gunships), which is yet another example of how Gunships need fixing. .

 

I tend to fly a Sting (don't know republic version) and I use Retro thrusters on it and don't have a problem evading most gunships or catching up to them unless they are using barrel roll on spam to out distance me. I try to kill them before they have the chance with blaster overload and being weapon focused coming from somewhere other then the front or using distortion field if I have to approach from the front. I haven't really noticed a problem escaping from them without barrel roll unless I am facing multiple gunships by myself, and then its sorta my own fault for flying into that mess.

 

To me the point of barrel roll in dog fights is to avoid missiles already fired and also by making your ship spin it is harder to hit with lasers as well, there is already a defensive buff that makes it harder to hit in addition to the circular movement it grants. This way you are choosing do you want to have a maneuver that avoids but keeps going in the direction you were going, rotate 90 degree on one access, turn around with the 180 degree turn, or just brake and let them try to pass you

[Slivovidze]

Well, there is nothing to complain about in your post.

 

Though I'm a scout pilot and I don't think situation is much critical. If someone is so good pilot that they can exploit all of these, I don't mind being killed by them couple of times. Most of gunships are still a fodder, and even if all these fodder pilots started to exploit your points, they wouldn't be much successful.

 

The slow? I can barrel roll behind stuff. You will either wait me out, giving up opportunity to kill others, or you will switch to others, giving me opportunity to shoot you.

The barrel roll? I have it too, along with buttload more boost and speed. I will catch you anyways.

The instakill? Building scout defensively is like building a paper fortress. I build for agility, so if you manage to hit me with your bypass buffed full charge slug, enjoy your kill, you deserve it.

The burst lasers? If you and your ship agile as beached whale can outmaneuver me to shoot me with it, enjoy your kill, you deserve it.

 

That all said, there is still no invalid point on your post.

Also, I don't have a strike fighter's point of view as I am NovaDive only and when something hits me too hard, I usually manage to get the heck outta there, even if it is a black hole exploding. Guess the fighters can't really do that.

Also note that by "you" I mean the general gunship player, not you personally, I'm not bragging here that I'd kill you

Edited December 16, 2013 by Slivovidze

[Phantasym]

I am a SWTOR fan who is reluctant.

 

I came back with Starfighter because it looks awesome, and it awesome. I travel for work (No laptop yet) so I wasn't able to catch up on SWTOR-related things.

 

I come back a few days to find that nearly everyone (80%) has a gunship except me. And to top it off, its unbalanced and two shots me pretty universally.

 

Everyone has one available because they have been subscribers before Nov 1st. Not everyone uses them lately most matches have 0-2 in them being played some as many as 5 never seen more then that on my server. They are supposed to 2 shot you, that isn't unbalanced. The issues in this thread are about specific situations that can cause imbalance not the class in general being OP. You need to learn how to target them and get in cover after being hit once, or circle around and take them our or fly defensively rather then in straight predicable paths that make you easy targets.

[Fractalsponge]

I've been playing a fair bit of gunship on Shadowlands (Xi'ao) and did so as well during PTS (Xa'o). I've had a decent amount of success so far.

 

Most of the points from Nemarus I completely agree with.

 

1) Ion Railgun's debuff effects. Agreed that it should scale somewhat based on charge. I actually thought that it (and plasma's dot effect) did scale already until very recently, since that made intuitive sense. Maybe require 75% charge for full effect, or slightly increase the maximum possible effect but make it scale very closely to charge held?

 

3) Bypass should be adjusted so that a full HP scout should be able to withstand a non-crit slug railgun at full charge. Absolutely agreed, though it IS on a high CD, and for that reason I personally haven't used Bypass since the first few matches on 2.5 going live.

 

4) I haven't actually tried burst lasers on any build, but this point seems to make sense. The default light lasers have seemed perfectly fine to me, tbh.

 

However, I do disagree with Barrel Roll being removed from gunships. It IS the best way to move from position to position, but that's a problem with the ability, not gunships having access to it. It'd be fine to tone it down with a debuff mechanism on boost distance like Lord_of_Sith proposed, but removing it for one class seems like the wrong way to go about it. Gunships do need some way to escape destruction from close combat where they are at a disadvantage, in the same way that scouts should be able to escape being consistently one-shotted at distance due to Bypass.

 

However, the "zoom to end barrel roll trick" I didn't even existed until now - that seems to be a bug that needs to be fixed. Can't say I've seen many obvious (ab)uses of it though in the matches I've played to date.

 

As it currently stands, gunships are easymode for bad pilots to get high kill counts

 

On Shadowlands, I have VERY rarely seen players dominate matches in gunships. In fact groups with high numbers of gunships almost always lose matches, since the average player playing gunships do not do SO much extra damage with it as to overwhelm the loss of numbers on the satellites. As many others have noted, a GOOD gunship pilot is extremely hard to catch in the current meta, with the right build, but can be still held to minimal effectiveness by good play. However, BAD gunship pilots are just padding the other side's kill count, while contributing almost nothing to the ability to win a match by capturing and defending satellites. My experience has been that it is not an "easymode" spec in the sense that people that aren't already pretty good at Starfighter are using it to have a disproportionate effect on damage done and match outcomes.

 

I think some small changes in the mechanisms of Ion debuffs and Bypass are necessary, but it's important not to over nerf the class. Otherwise, every match would just be a bunch of scouts. And you know what? Even then, almost the exact same set of people would be high up on the scoreboard at the end of the match.

[Cashal]

3) Bypass and Slugs: Other threads have been posted about this, but in short, a fully-upgraded Slug Railgun, when combined with the Bypass co-pilot ability, can take out a Scout in one shot--regardless of how the Scout has built for defense.

Suggested Fix: Reduce/Eliminate Bypass co-pilot ability, such that a defensively upgraded Scout can never be one-shotted.

 

Since I switch between Pub and Imp players. . . I will also note that Republic have an advantage over imps . . .

 

Personally I want 3 things on my gunship - Killzone (+2 Degree), Pinpointing (+6 Accuracy), and Bypass. . . Republic is the only one who can get all three of these. (Due to companion differences)