Top 10 most under-rated Force Users

[Aurbere]

And this is coming from the Anti-Revan-Fanboy club president!

 

Pretty sure that's me.

[tunewalker]

The ancient sith and Exar Kun would have also known how to stop Force Drain, also likely the One Sith, I have no problem believing that Vitiate knows it being an ancient Sith himself (after all Traya learned it from their holocrons) and Revan very likely could know it as well learning it from Vitiate Same with Malak as Malak was clearly skilled in the Application of Force Drain as shown in the Star Forge.

 

 

Also Traya specifically says "there are some techniques within the force for which there is no defense." she does not specifically say Force Drain, that is a misinterpretation by the fans, it is more likely she is talking Sever Force which has no documented Defense that I know of other than stopping it before it happens. Also it generally takes multiple people to pull off something that Sion and Nihilus could have taken advantage of when facing Traya. All-in-all Force Drain's nature is largely speculative, its thought that its undefendable is false we know this, the idea that its undefendable from all but a few is unfounded as there is no direct quote saying such. All of it is just fan interpretations which of course are the most likely to be and easiest to be WRONG they are N-cannon.

[Selenial]

OK by so practically we are talking dust mote size. OK that's cool.

 

Come up with some evidence to support your argument, then we can talk. Or put him on the list.

 

Lol, Vader gets nominated for #1 but Malak gets rejected. I should be laughing, but it ain't funny.

 

The guy is so gosh darn underrated he doesn't make the underrated list.

 

Well, I don't think malak is Underrated.

Oh, and I rejected Vader too.

 

How about this? Revan became more and more powerful after his fight with Malak. Especially as Revan Reborn. And even amped by the star forge, Even after replenishing his health multiple times, Revan still beat him.

 

Sure it would have been a tough battle for Revan, a very tough one, but put them together somewhere like Dantooine, and Revan would beat him. With ease.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Selenial

[Aurbere]

Lol, Vader gets nominated for #1 but Malak gets rejected. I should be laughing, but it ain't funny.

 

The guy is so gosh darn underrated he doesn't make the underrated list.

 

So, because people don't think he should be at #1 means that he won't make the list at all?

 

Reel it back in, friend.

[Selenial]

The ancient sith and Exar Kun would have also known how to stop Force Drain, also likely the One Sith, I have no problem believing that Vitiate knows it being an ancient Sith himself (after all Traya learned it from their holocrons) and Revan very likely could know it as well learning it from Vitiate Same with Malak as Malak was clearly skilled in the Application of Force Drain as shown in the Star Forge.

 

 

Also Traya specifically says "there are some techniques within the force for which there is no defense." she does not specifically say Force Drain, that is a misinterpretation by the fans, it is more likely she is talking Sever Force which has no documented Defense that I know of other than stopping it before it happens. Also it generally takes multiple people to pull off something that Sion and Nihilus could have taken advantage of when facing Traya. All-in-all Force Drain's nature is largely speculative, its thought that its undefendable is false we know this, the idea that its undefendable from all but a few is unfounded as there is no direct quote saying such. All of it is just fan interpretations which of course are the most likely to be and easiest to be WRONG they are N-cannon.

 

I swear, if you weren't facing Traya next, you would not be saying this

 

Just because they knew Force Drain doesn't mean they knew how to stop it.

 

Uliq Qel Droma is the only documented case of stopping it, other than Anankin.

 

I find it amusing you rage in your post about complete speculation on our part, and then completely guess about the ancient sith and the rest of them.

[Beniboybling]

The ancient sith and Exar Kun would have also known how to stop Force Drain, also likely the One Sith, I have no problem believing that Vitiate knows it being an ancient Sith himself (after all Traya learned it from their holocrons) and Revan very likely could know it as well learning it from Vitiate Same with Malak as Malak was clearly skilled in the Application of Force Drain as shown in the Star Forge.

 

 

Also Traya specifically says "there are some techniques within the force for which there is no defense." she does not specifically say Force Drain, that is a misinterpretation by the fans, it is more likely she is talking Sever Force which has no documented Defense that I know of other than stopping it before it happens. Also it generally takes multiple people to pull off something that Sion and Nihilus could have taken advantage of when facing Traya. All-in-all Force Drain's nature is largely speculative, its thought that its undefendable is false we know this, the idea that its undefendable from all but a few is unfounded as there is no direct quote saying such. All of it is just fan interpretations which of course are the most likely to be and easiest to be WRONG they are N-cannon.

There is no misinterpretation, whatever Nihilus used against Traya, and whatever you like to call it, it was most certainly and most definitely the same power Traya used against the Jedi Council. This could not be more patently obvious, not only does Traya make it abundantly clear that all the Sith use this same technique - but the effects are the same.

 

Check Wookieepedia if you like, and while your at it look up Sever Force - its a light side power.

 

So lets not go any further with that line of thought.

 

Anyway, concerning Revan's connection to this ability. The Sith Emperor never taught Revan or Malak any powers so I don't see any connection there, and despite Traya being a practitioner of Force Drain and leader of a brand of Sith who effectively revolved around this power in every possible, she had no defense against it - and what's more believed their to be no defense against it. So I don't think Revan and Malak's knowledge of Force Drain would help either.

 

Altogether its not only unlikely that Revan had a defense against this power, buts its pure speculation.

[tunewalker]

There is no misinterpretation, whatever Nihilus used against Traya, and whatever you like to call it, it was most certainly and most definitely the same power Traya used against the Jedi Council. This could not be more patently obvious, not only does Traya make it abundantly clear that all the Sith use this same technique - but the effects are the same.

 

Check Wookieepedia if you like, and while your at it look up Sever Force - its a light side power.

 

So lets not go any further with that line of thought.

 

Anyway, concerning Revan's connection to this ability. The Sith Emperor never taught Revan or Malak any powers so I don't see any connection there, and despite Traya being a practitioner of Force Drain and leader of a brand of Sith who effectively revolved around this power in every possible, she had no defense against it - and what's more believed their to be no defense against it. So I don't think Revan and Malak's knowledge of Force Drain would help either.

 

Altogether its not only unlikely that Revan had a defense against this power, buts its pure speculation.

She never said Force Drain had no defense, she said "there are some techniques in the force for which there is no defense" there is no guarantee that she was force drained at all that is speculations. If you look at the 2 scenes Traya clearly has a visual of Force drain when she drains the council, yet Nihilus and Sion just walk in and put her up against a wall and drop her there is no visual Force Drain used so we can not speculate that it was the same, doing so again is a mis-interpretation of the events. Like I said Rampant and it will never go away, because the idea that force drain was defendable (documented evidence that it was even being there) just doesn't sit right with people even though they can never nor will ever find a quote saying such. We all know where Wookie edits come from that is also an interpretation. Like I said Traya definition of Over-estimated because of interpretations and liberties taken by fans rather then taking events and words at face value, people take them to mean more then they do.

 

Emperor taught them nothing and yet both knew the ability, there was no where they could have learned it save for in the Sith Empire Traya wasn't around to teach them that at the time. We also know that the mental influence of The emperor works 2 ways its very possible Revan and Malak would have learned some of his abilities through this mental Link.

 

8:40 clear force drain.

 

no force drain present. Just force push and a force rage choke out. Edited December 16, 2013 by tunewalker

[S_W_LeGenD]

Cutscene? Or gameplay?

It is a coded-sequence and Revan disappears afterwards.

 

OK, but that doesn't mean he can defend against Force Drain.

Look dear, it is not wise to jump to conclusions with pure assumptions. It is rather wise to analyze stuff holistically.

 

In case of Revan, we have some useful hints (from canon sources) to consider for the argument in favor of his defense against Force Drain related talents.

 

Hint 1:

 

"Led by a woman named Kreia, the rogue Jedi turned to the dark side teachings uncovered by Malak and Revan. Kreia took the name Darth Traya, and her followers called themselves the Sith after the long-lost species that had invaded the Republic a millennium before." (From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

 

Darth Traya knew what Revan was capable of and this is why she was in awe of his abilities:

 

"Revan was power. Staring into his eyes was like staring into the heart of the Force. Even then, you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul."

 

Hint 2:

 

"She still wasn’t sure what to make of Lord Scourge. She had sensed that his offer to work together was sincere, though she wondered how much of that was Revan's doing. It was easy to understand how Scourge could be drawn to him; Revan's command of the Force was greater than that of anyone else she had ever met. And she knew how charismatic he could be. Even though he was a prisoner it wasn’t hard to imagine him being in total control of the situation." (From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

 

Hint 3:

 

Revan's incredible mastery of defensive applications of the Force (including the capability to form a protective bubble around himself with which he could make himself virtually invincible or close).

 

Gameplay.

 

Also, not even gameplay, because you can get around it and actually kill him

How exactly is a coded-sequence, a gameplay element?

 

Also, Revan disappears from the arena. You cannot strike him down, unless it is a bug. Once Revan forms a protective bubble around himself, he is virtually immune at that point.

 

That power to stop Force Drain was completely unprecedented in the Jedi order, especially around that time.

 

If it was knowledge the Jedi knew of, none would have died on Katarr, if it was knowledge of the Sith, Sion would not have fallen to Nihilus.

 

Oh, and as for the Kreia quote, yes, makes sense now. But all it's saying was they fell to the darkside from those teachings, not everything they knew was from them.

I am not implying that it is common knowledge but that their is a good case for Revan having such knowledge. See above.

 

*facedesk*

Of course XD

 

When I said Vitiate, I meant who's overrated now

 

But yeh, Revan's a bloody close Second.

Vitiate most overrated? No.

 

This award goes to Luke.

Edited December 16, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

[Wolfninjajedi]

In regards to the whole Sion and Nihilus vs Traya thing...I found this..

 

But Traya underestimates her disciples' depravity. They turn on her and drain her Force powers.

 

--Taken from the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

 

Also Tune I am getting a little confused, are you saying there is a way to defend against Force Drain or no?

[Selenial]

In regards to the whole Sion and Nihilus vs Traya thing...I found this..

Also Tune I am getting a little confused, are you saying there is a way to defend against Force Drain or no?

 

God damnit you beat me to it.

[tunewalker]

In regards to the whole Sion and Nihilus vs Traya thing...I found this..

 

 

 

Also Tune I am getting a little confused, are you saying there is a way to defend against Force Drain or no?

 

I was saying there was a way to defend it, but you did find a quote showing that they used it, but that doesn't mean it was specifically force dran she was talking about when she said there was no Defense. (Ulic knew it, Anakin knew it Kun likely knew it, the ancient sith that developed it knew it, the ability itself likely had limits, more specifically individuals that used it had limits likely to how much they could drain and from the number of people they could drain it from so on and so forth. Honestly I think at this point I am just saying there is an Overestimated Force power in Force Drain its not the I win button every one makes it out to be.

 

Like traya can some how 1v1 any one in Star Wars that cant use Force drain, because force Drain is so LEETS and has no defense and the only people who knew the defense were Anakin and Ulic (Ulic learned it from Kun, Kun Learned it from the Ancient sith, Anakin could have taught others. The entire Sith Empire is one big group of "ancient Sith", The Banite Sith studied Force Sorcery all over the place and had access to Ulic's, Kun's and Ancient Sith teaching. So on and So forth the ability to defend against it could have been spread out all over the place. With Revan going to Face the Sith Empire (some of which know force drain) and being able to beat all but the Emperor himself shows his ability to face Force Drain wielders and have no issues. Malak used force Drain and yet didn't even attempt it on Revan so on and so forth.

Edited December 16, 2013 by tunewalker

[Wolfninjajedi]

I was saying there was a way to defend it, but you did find a quote showing that they used it, but that doesn't mean it was specifically force dran she was talking about when she said there was no Defense. (Ulic knew it, Anakin knew it Kun likely knew it, the ancient sith that developed it knew it, the ability itself likely had limits, more specifically individuals that used it had limits likely to how much they could drain and from the number of people they could drain it from so on and so forth. Honestly I think at this point I am just saying there is an Overestimated Force power in Force Drain its not the I win button every one makes it out to be.

 

Ahhh alright then.

[Aurbere]

It is a coded-sequence and Revan disappears afterwards.

 

You're talking about that? I don't think that's an ability.

 

Look dear, it is not wise to jump to conclusions with pure assumptions. It is rather wise to analyze stuff holistically.

 

In case of Revan, we have some useful hints (from canon sources) to consider for the argument in favor of his defense against Force Drain related talents.

 

Hint 1:

 

"Led by a woman named Kreia, the rogue Jedi turned to the dark side teachings uncovered by Malak and Revan. Kreia took the name Darth Traya, and her followers called themselves the Sith after the long-lost species that had invaded the Republic a millennium before." (From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

 

Darth Traya knew what Revan was capable of since and this is why she was in awe of his abilities:

 

"Revan was power. Staring into his eyes was like staring into the heart of the Force. Even then, you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul."

 

Hint 2:

 

"She still wasn’t sure what to make of Lord Scourge. She had sensed that his offer to work together was sincere, though she wondered how much of that was Revan's doing. It was easy to understand how Scourge could be drawn to him; Revan's command of the Force was greater than that of anyone else she had ever met. And she knew how charismatic he could be. Even though he was a prisoner it wasn’t hard to imagine him being in total control of the situation." (From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

 

[/b]Hint 3:[/b]

 

Revan's incredible mastery of defensive applications of the Force (including the capability to form a protective bubble around himself with which he could make himself virtually invincible or close).

 

Dear? Sir or Lord will do, peon.

 

But as to your quotes, they don't really suggest that Revan knew how to defend against Force Drain.

 

Vitiate most overrated? No.

 

This award goes to Luke.

 

Not really. He is canonically the most powerful Jedi ever. Overrate him more, we must.

[Selenial]

Dear? Sir or Lord will do, peon.

Not really. He is canonically the most powerful Jedi ever. Overrate him more, we must.

 

I love you <3

 

[Aurbere]

I love you <3

 

 

I know.

[S_W_LeGenD]

You're talking about that? I don't think that's an ability.

Here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Protection_bubble

 

Dear? Sir or Lord will do, peon.

Yes, Sir.

 

But as to your quotes, they don't really suggest that Revan knew how to defend against Force Drain.

But those hints strongly suggest a possibility at minimum.

 

Something is better then nothing. As far as your argument is concerned, it is nothing but an assumption.

 

Not really. He is canonically the most powerful Jedi ever. Overrate him more, we must.

Really?

 

"Luke Skywalker, the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, was being accused for the millions of deaths the second civil war supplied?"

 

"Luke Skywalker is still the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy. I think we should assume he has a plan."

 

"...but rather a fight with one of the most powerful Jedi in history"

Edited December 16, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

[tunewalker]

Another under-rated one I think should be Lumiya, she is rarely talked about and often considered not very skilled only using a "novelty" weapon. I think any one that has made a top-blank list in the past should almost be disqualified, after all they clearly are known to be strong by just being on that list.

[S_W_LeGenD]

Lets deal with the facts here, no conventional defense has proven capable of defending against Force Drain. Revan uses conventional defenses. Nor is this just Traya's word (which in fact is the cleverly disguised words of the writers) but is confirmed as such by Ulic Qel Droma who tells Anakin he must learn a special technique to defend against its power. Revan is never said to have learned this technique nor did he possess the means.

Define "conventional defenses."

 

Revan's defensive abilities range from a simple shield to protective bubble with a large number of abilities in-between.

 

Revan was more powerful and well-versed in the ways of the Force then Traya ever was (Check my post # 133 on page 14 for useful hints). Revan might be able to significantly reduce the impact of her most lethal powers on him, if not outright tank all of them. Revan also have the option to counter-drain Traya in return since he also uses this talent. Revan even have the option to send Traya packing with his light-dark combo burst of energy in split-second period, disrupting her from any action she would be employing in the process.

 

All in all, I think Traya is more than enough to challenge Revan. Anyone saying otherwise just reasserts her candidacy.

She does not holds a candle to Revan actually.

 

Do you recall Revan's encounter against Darth Nyriss? She have superior performance then Traya (like this or not) and she was still outclassed by Revan, thanks to his amazing command of defensive aspects of the Force and raw power. Now before you come up with nexus argument, keep in mind that Traya was also on a nexus when she fought Meetra Surik (Malachor V). Revan is far more powerful then Traya and Meetra Surik.

Edited December 16, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

[Selenial]

Do you recall Revan's encounter against Darth Nyriss? She have superior performance then Traya (like this or not) and she was still outclassed by Revan, thanks to his amazing command of defensive aspects of the Force and raw power. Now before you come up with nexus argument, keep in mind that Traya was also on a nexus when she fought Meetra Surik (Malachor V). Revan is far more powerful then Traya and Meetra Surik.

 

Bahaha...

Bahahahaha.....

 

BWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

 

Omg, that's such a good one, mind if I re-use that at the office christmas part? :rolleyes:

[S_W_LeGenD]

Bahaha...

Bahahahaha.....

 

BWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

 

Omg, that's such a good one, mind if I re-use that at the office christmas part? :rolleyes:

Trust hurts? I know.

 

Darth Nyriss defeated the duo of Meetra Surik and Lord Scourge. She would have slaughtered both, if Revan had not interfered.

 

In contrast, Darth Traya went one-on-one against Meetra Surik and still lost.

[Aurbere]

Here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Protection_bubble

 

I am aware of the ability, I still doubt that this was an ability and not just some forced instance so Karpyshyn's love child could come back.

 

Yes, Sir.

 

That will do. Now continue.

 

But those hints strongly suggest a possibility at minimum.

 

Something is better then nothing. As far as your argument is concerned, it is nothing but an assumption.

 

An assumption. We've seen that few actually know how to defend against it. Such a technique is rare. Revan knowing it is an assumption.

 

Really?

 

"Luke Skywalker, the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, was being accused for the millions of deaths the second civil war supplied?"

 

"Luke Skywalker is still the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy. I think we should assume he has a plan."

 

"...but rather a fight with one of the most powerful Jedi in history"

 

Um... Thanks?

[Aurbere]

Another under-rated one I think should be Lumiya, she is rarely talked about and often considered not very skilled only using a "novelty" weapon. I think any one that has made a top-blank list in the past should almost be disqualified, after all they clearly are known to be strong by just being on that list.

 

Well that's an interesting choice.

[Selenial]

Trust hurts? I know.

 

Darth Nyriss defeated the duo of Meetra Surik and Lord Scourge. She would have slaughtered both, if Revan had not interfered.

 

In contrast, Darth Traya went one-on-one against Meetra Surik and still lost.

 

Trust generally doesn't hurt, no.

 

Edit: As for the post, we've discussed it before. Completely different circumstances.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Selenial

[S_W_LeGenD]

I am aware of the ability, I still doubt that this was an ability and not just some forced instance so Karpyshyn's love child could come back.

Revan formed a protective bubble around himself, preventing the Imperial Strike Team from killing him, before he decided to vanish.

 

Retry the associated flashpoint or check youtube for videos.

 

An assumption. We've seen that few actually know how to defend against it. Such a technique is rare. Revan knowing it is an assumption.

Yours is pure assumption while mine is based on canon hints. Their is difference.

 

Also:

 

Revan's defensive abilities range from a simple shield to protective bubble with a large number of abilities in-between.

 

Revan was more powerful and well-versed in the ways of the Force then Traya ever was (Check my post # 133 on page 14 for useful hints). Revan might be able to significantly reduce the impact of her most lethal powers on him, if not outright tank all of them. Revan also have the option to counter-drain Traya in return since he also uses this talent. Revan even have the option to send Traya packing with his light-dark combo burst of energy in split-second period, disrupting her from any action she would be employing in the process.

 

---

 

Um... Thanks?

You're welcome.

 

Trust generally doesn't hurt, no.

 

Edit: As for the post, we've discussed it before. Completely different circumstances.

Completely different circumstances? How exactly?

 

Meetra Surik fought Darth Traya on Malachor V (entire planet is a nexus) and she had to fight many Sith or Dark Jedi prior to reaching her position (including Darth Sion). In contrast, she was fresh when she met Darth Nyriss.

Edited December 16, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

[Aurbere]

Do you recall Revan's encounter against Darth Nyriss? She have superior performance then Traya (like this or not) and she was still outclassed by Revan, thanks to his amazing command of defensive aspects of the Force and raw power. Now before you come up with nexus argument, keep in mind that Traya was also on a nexus when she fought Meetra Surik (Malachor V). Revan is far more powerful then Traya and Meetra Surik.

 

It's actually likely that Revan was able to benefit from the dark side nexus as well. Considering that he can draw from either side, that seems possible to me.