Hyfy Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 If you go down the tank tree, then yes you will be more survivable than an Operative and likely more HP, however you are half the tank you could be as a Juggernaut or Powertech. How much DPS do you give up compared to an Operative? An incredibly large amount, the DPS difference between Darkness and Deception trees is very marked. You can obtain equivalent survivability as a DPS/hybrid juggernaut than you can as an Assassin. If memory serves me, the Operative has 2 CC breaks and equivalent CC's and interrupts as we do, the juggernaut is a much more capable tank. The area where your logic is falling down is that a stealth based Operative still retains its medium armour and healing whilst maximising it's DPS, giving it much more survivability and even team utility without a loss to DPS. The point of my post is that there is no niche/area where an Assassin shines as much, never mind better, than one of the other classes. And where your argument still holds no water is I don't have to be in Darkness spec to retain my heavy armor stance. I can go Into the DPS trees and still have my heavy armor class that continually heals me on every melee swing. So yes the Assassin shines just as much if not more than Maras and Ops because they can retain their DPS and be a much more survivable "tank". Again I would put my Assassin up against any equally leveled Op or Marauder anyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adhok Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 PvE Tanking - We tank well. We aren't quite as strong as Jugg's due to some of their longer defensive CD's. Single target we can hold our own, but multi target becomes a bit more difficult. It's rather easy to deal with though in Hardmodes. Wither is awesome. PvP Tanking - Awesome. 31/0/10 is amazing. Swapping guards to stop burst damage, spiking every 20 seconds out of stealth, wither and discharge spam. You do a decent amount of damage and can turn fights in your favor with a decent healer around. PvE Deception - great dps, voltic is great and the rotation is a ton of fun. PvP Deception - Decent. It's certainly not bad but you will have issues in sustained fights in regards with staying on target. Force slow and sprint are great but with the amount of CC in the game it's a big problem on maps like Hutt Ball. The other two aren't so bad but Hutt ball will make you want to pull you're hair out at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchy Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 And where your argument still holds no water is I don't have to be in Darkness spec to retain my heavy armor stance. I can go Into the DPS trees and still have my heavy armor class that continually heals me on every melee swing. So yes the Assassin shines just as much if not more than Maras and Ops because they can retain their DPS and be a much more survivable "tank". Again I would put my Assassin up against any equally leveled Op or Marauder anyday. If you think acheiving a 60-100 point heal once every 1.5 seconds is in anyway comparable to being able to dish out 3k heals on yourself then you are sadly mistaken. If you tihnk it is comparative to the damage shields that Marauders can pop then you are sadly mistaken. You are also not retaining your DPS. The Assassin DPS comes from Surging Charge and its effect on Discharge and shock, I have played both Darkness and Deception trees, and whilst Deception is notably behind the Operative, it is miles in front of Darkness. I will also take the liberty to post now on the inevitable follow up post on switching stances; if you want to use half your force power in the middle of combat to switch stance please feel free, it will cost you more than you gain. What you are trying to advocate is some horrible hybrid that has minimally increased survivability at the cost of a huge DPS loss, and will still never be as effective as the other classes which are specifically designed for those roles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchy Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 PvE Tanking - We tank well. We aren't quite as strong as Jugg's due to some of their longer defensive CD's. Single target we can hold our own, but multi target becomes a bit more difficult. It's rather easy to deal with though in Hardmodes. Wither is awesome. PvP Tanking - Awesome. 31/0/10 is amazing. Swapping guards to stop burst damage, spiking every 20 seconds out of stealth, wither and discharge spam. You do a decent amount of damage and can turn fights in your favor with a decent healer around. PvE Deception - great dps, voltic is great and the rotation is a ton of fun. PvP Deception - Decent. It's certainly not bad but you will have issues in sustained fights in regards with staying on target. Force slow and sprint are great but with the amount of CC in the game it's a big problem on maps like Hutt Ball. The other two aren't so bad but Hutt ball will make you want to pull you're hair out at times. A balanced view, but without a healer for PVP tanking you will be in trouble given 50% player damage reflects back to you. Bear in mind though that Bpunty Hunters and Juggs can both Guard as well, and the Jugg can leap to a friendly player and reduce their damage at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 No melee lives very long in melee without a healer so the fact that you can die often even as a tank isn't really that important. In fact you don't really want your HP to appear like 18K+ because then people know you're not actually going to do significant damage, and in that case you'll live very long because people will ignore you, but that's survival in the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fife Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Use the keyboard with my right hand and mouse with my left:D weird binds are weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabrielcab Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 "Assasins are good once you hit 50 and get super impresive hard to found gear" "Assasins are good if you spent a lot of time reading and studying your rotations and keep a good eye on your cooldowns" If another class have the same gear and study their character like an assasin have to train his, do Assasins still shines? i don't think so. I think Assasins need real love from BW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiza Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Even as a dps they seem drastically inferior to maruader/operatives (the two "closet" classes too them). Maruaders have a ton of survival abilities/gap closing abilities on short cooldowns + better armor. Operatives have better armor + healing + comparable (+ imo better) offensive abilities. Truthfully I think of the 8 major advanced classes this is by far the most underrepresented and most useless one out there, period. What game do you play again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 "Assasins are good once you hit 50 and get super impresive hard to found gear" "Assasins are good if you spent a lot of time reading and studying your rotations and keep a good eye on your cooldowns" If another class have the same gear and study their character like an assasin have to train his, do Assasins still shines? i don't think so. I think Assasins need real love from BW. No they don't because even if play with awesome skill, a Commando is still limited just spamming Grav Round as that's actually their optimal attack if they're not under pressure. Now a very good player will find a way to be able to spam Grav Round even under pressure most of the time, but they're still not actually any more powerful than a guy who is just left alone and gets to spam Grav Rounds. However it is valid to say that it is not balanced if to be balanced you need skills that is well out of reach out of the average player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranded_Law Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) You have no idea at all what you're talking about. This was going to be my post regarding Buchy's comments as well. Just because you're bad, doesn't make the Jugg a better tank. The Assassin is a situational single-target tank, that can excel as an off-tank during multi-target encounters. Not all tanks have to be as good in every situation. And we deal more damage in our Darkness tree than the Juggy does in his pure tank tree. In pvp, Darkness tanks can still place top spot in damage with incredibly high numbers. Just learn how to not get gibbed by Scoundrels/Ops and you're fine. If your opposing team sends 4-5 to kill you, that means your team is brutally kicking their *** everywhere else. By dying, you've done your job brilliantly. And it's hilarious to think they can ignore you once they realize you're a tank spec...our damage isn't nearly as bad as you like to think it is. And if you think the only way to reach sick damage is by using Surging Charge, you're not good at being an Assassin. Speaking of which, the problem most people have with Assassin is the name. It shouldn't have been called "Assassin", it just confuses people. It's more to do with Sith Culture, and your title, than a style of how you kill. The melee AC should have been called Inquisitor, while the original class was called something different, like Harbinger. (Harbinger means "something that heralds (a) change") Then they could have named the Deception tree "Assassin". Harbinger -> Inquisitor ------------ -> Sorcerer With Darkness and Darkness/Madness Hybrid, I tend to think of myself as an Inquisitor anyway, rather than 'an Assassin'. Edited January 15, 2012 by Stranded_Law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceington Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 That's like comparing Rogues to Warriors, rogues come in, do the job, and leave without a trace. Warriors leave blood footprint trails Untill warriors got a vanish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deamonpoop Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I tank very well with my assassin. You just need to play a certain way to like it and be good at it. I almost always come in top 3 with my tank spec assassin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirixis Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 i have no issue destroying ppl with my sin. i use a hit n run tac with 2 other sins in warfronts. team work is by far the best way as a sin. 1v1 is not so bad if u use the right cooldown and dont keyboard turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuschell Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Why did you necro this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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