If GbtF/UR is really a problem...

[waterboytkd]

Then maybe Sentinels/Marauders should just lose it and gain the abilities that we're currently lacking that ALL OTHER classes get. This post sums up my thoughts fairly well:

 

In addition to being the ONLY class without a hard stun, we're also the only melee without full stealth or heavy armor. Our passive defenses are weak. People complain about Force Camouflage, but it only lasts 4 seconds (up to 6 with Watchman) and it has already been nerfed once. Elsewhere I already laid out how the defensive cooldowns work for people who complain, but they seem to assume that our durability just happens.

 

It is very easy to waste Rebuke--six seconds of no one attacking you and it's gone. Further, Rebuke is not on the Sentinel a MINIMUM of 30 seconds of every minute. Saber Ward is great--with a very long cooldown. Force Camouflage lasts only four seconds and is down for 45 seconds. GbtF takes half of our remaining life and only lasts four seconds. What makes it a real kick to the teeth is that, and this is from Bioware, they are nerfing it because of Focus and because of the synergy with healers. I read that to mean that on our own we're balanced--but add a healer to the mix and people complain. Twice this evening ability lag prevented me from hitting GbtF.

 

I think we should ask for better passive defenses and just get rid of GbtF if this nerf hits. It's absurdly crippling and serves only to appease the whiners about a SPEC that will STILL be the strongest of the three.

 

First, that last sentence was in regards to a 99% heal debuff. Though this nerf wasn't as extreme as also reducing incoming healing by 99%, like some cried for, it's still an AC-wide nerf, despite that it was only 1 spec in that AC that was considered OP. And it's a nerf that makes the weakness of GbtF/UR even more glaring: we can still be stunned while it's active.

 

Not sure how others played it, but I kept GbtF/UR right next to my medpacs, so right after I popped it, I also chugged a medpac. That way, even if I got stun-locked out of my GbtF/UR 4 second window, I'd at least have a hp cushion to fight on afterwards. But now? As soon as my opponent sees GbtF/UR go up, if they're smart, they'll just wait a few seconds and then stun me. What does that do? My hp cuts in half WHILE I'm stunned, I can't use my medpac, and they can get the very quick finishing blow in.

 

If the only issue with GbtF/UR was in conjunction with other healers, this is a weird nerf, as there are TONS of abilities that are busted in conjunction with a healer in PvP, including just another healer. If the issue is we have 4 seconds of "invulnerability" (we don't, as we can still be rooted, stunned, knockbacked), that hasn't changed. If it was in how often we could pop the buff...well, the problem spec, Focus/Rage, can still pop it as often as the other specs could pre-nerf.

 

Really, if it's such a problem ability, just remove it from the class and give us a 4-second hard stun as well as a knockback. I'd be alright losing my good defensive buff for those.

[Sappharan]

Gimped by the Farce needs to go. Give us heavy armor. Done. Dispose of Force Camouflage and I will happily take a four second stun too.

[MGNMTTRN]

mfw sentinel is the overall best melee AC by far

mfw people roll classes that have specific differences from other classes and then complain that because their class is not superior in every way, they need a buff

mfw bioware will never ever give this AC or gunslingers the nerfs they deserve

[Sappharan]

mfw sentinel is the overall best melee AC by far

mfw people roll classes that have specific differences from other classes and then complain that because their class is not superior in every way, they need a buff

mfw bioware will never ever give this AC or gunslingers the nerfs they deserve

 

yeah?

 

How about playing one now that the draconian nerf is in place. Yeah, doubt you could handle it.

[waterboytkd]

mfw sentinel is the overall best melee AC by far

mfw people roll classes that have specific differences from other classes and then complain that because their class is not superior in every way, they need a buff

mfw bioware will never ever give this AC or gunslingers the nerfs they deserve

 

Calling us the overall best melee AC by far is a stretch. Maybe we're the best melee AC, but it certainly wouldn't be "by far" as we can only fulfill one role: damage. We certainly fall short of being the best when a tank is wanted, unlike the other 2 melee ACs, which can switch to that. Which brings me to the second point: we're the best out of...three. There are only 3 melee ACs.

 

Your second line confuses me greatly. I didn't ask for a buff. In fact, I enjoyed the class, despite lacking a 4 second hard stun or a knockback, because I felt like I could still be competitive. GbtF/UR was our replacement for lacking those STANDARD ABILITIES that all other classes get. I enjoyed the difference, and never asked for us to be superior CCers. Never even asked for us to be average CCers prior to the nerf. But since our replacement ability no longer functions well, I would rather just have the STANDARD ABILITIES that all other classes get. My original point: if GbtF/UR is really such a problem, get rid of it, and give us the STANDARD ABILITIES that all other classes get because evidence suggests that they are not a problem.

 

As for your last line, what nerfs do they deserve? You do realize that they are the only 2 ACs without a second role, right? So they focus on damage and damage only. If it seems like they are some of the best dpsers out there, it's because it's the only thing they do. Nevermind that the right tools to utterly destroy both classes exist. There are rocks to their scissors out there.

 

For example, you know what hurts my carnage mara/combat sent more than anything? Stuns/knockbacks/roots when GbtF/UR goes up, or knockbacks/stuns/roots when either Gore/Precision Strike or Ravage/Master Strike are activated. You want to watch my dps and performance plummet? Use a modicum of well-timed CC--you know, that thing that every AC but one has access to. That spec is so dependent on a narrow window of performance.

 

As for a sniper, make use of LoS and stealth options to neutralize them. When they put up their Entrench, LoS them so they have to break it to fight. When they do, CC to your heart's content.

 

Gimped by the Farce needs to go. Give us heavy armor. Done. Dispose of Force Camouflage and I will happily take a four second stun too.

 

Truthfully, I don't mind the idea of being a bit of a glass cannon. Just losing GbtF/UR gives us less defensive options, while being stuck in medium armor means our total damage mitigation is much lower. Considering that one of the big complaints about the AC (whether justified or not) is that it's too survivable, that would, I hope, kill those complaints.

 

Gaining a stun and knockback (single target knockpack is fine) would, meanwhile, give us more utility AND the presence of one more 4 second hard stun would help make the field just a touch harder on healers, especially Scoundrels/Operatives (as the best way to kill them is to beat them to 30% health, then hit them with the hard stun and finish them--an option that maras/sents don't have).

[Vodrin]

Gimped by the Farce needs to go. Give us heavy armor. Done. Dispose of Force Camouflage and I will happily take a four second stun too.

 

So all the DPS guardians that claim their survivability sucks because they lack sentinel defensive cooldowns are just whining then? And the last thing this game needs is more crowd control.

[Ottoattack]

Calling us the overall best melee AC by far is a stretch. Maybe we're the best melee AC, but it certainly wouldn't be "by far" as we can only fulfill one role: damage. We certainly fall short of being the best when a tank is wanted, unlike the other 2 melee ACs, which can switch to that. Which brings me to the second point: we're the best out of...three. There are only 3 melee ACs.

 

Your second line confuses me greatly. I didn't ask for a buff. In fact, I enjoyed the class, despite lacking a 4 second hard stun or a knockback, because I felt like I could still be competitive. GbtF/UR was our replacement for lacking those STANDARD ABILITIES that all other classes get. I enjoyed the difference, and never asked for us to be superior CCers. Never even asked for us to be average CCers prior to the nerf. But since our replacement ability no longer functions well, I would rather just have the STANDARD ABILITIES that all other classes get. My original point: if GbtF/UR is really such a problem, get rid of it, and give us the STANDARD ABILITIES that all other classes get because evidence suggests that they are not a problem.

 

As for your last line, what nerfs do they deserve? You do realize that they are the only 2 ACs without a second role, right? So they focus on damage and damage only. If it seems like they are some of the best dpsers out there, it's because it's the only thing they do. Nevermind that the right tools to utterly destroy both classes exist. There are rocks to their scissors out there.

 

For example, you know what hurts my carnage mara/combat sent more than anything? Stuns/knockbacks/roots when GbtF/UR goes up, or knockbacks/stuns/roots when either Gore/Precision Strike or Ravage/Master Strike are activated. You want to watch my dps and performance plummet? Use a modicum of well-timed CC--you know, that thing that every AC but one has access to. That spec is so dependent on a narrow window of performance.

 

As for a sniper, make use of LoS and stealth options to neutralize them. When they put up their Entrench, LoS them so they have to break it to fight. When they do, CC to your heart's content.

 

 

 

Truthfully, I don't mind the idea of being a bit of a glass cannon. Just losing GbtF/UR gives us less defensive options, while being stuck in medium armor means our total damage mitigation is much lower. Considering that one of the big complaints about the AC (whether justified or not) is that it's too survivable, that would, I hope, kill those complaints.

 

Gaining a stun and knockback (single target knockpack is fine) would, meanwhile, give us more utility AND the presence of one more 4 second hard stun would help make the field just a touch harder on healers, especially Scoundrels/Operatives (as the best way to kill them is to beat them to 30% health, then hit them with the hard stun and finish them--an option that maras/sents don't have).

 

Just read this line "Truthfully, I don't mind the idea of being a bit of a glass cannon" and rolled on the floor laughing so hard. What type of glass cannon runs 30-31% armor (both combat and focus) on top of multiple passive and active DCDs? Almost everything in this post is incorrect, between weak DCDs to lack off CCs. As for the second roll, I can assure you that dps shadows, guardians and VGs do not and can't tank in dps trees (except tactics VG) and scoundrels, sages and commandos do not heal in dps trees. This argument is moot.

[waterboytkd]

Just read this line "Truthfully, I don't mind the idea of being a bit of a glass cannon" and rolled on the floor laughing so hard. What type of glass cannon runs 30-31% armor (both combat and focus) on top of multiple passive and active DCDs? Almost everything in this post is incorrect, between weak DCDs to lack off CCs. As for the second roll, I can assure you that dps shadows, guardians and VGs do not and can't tank in dps trees (except tactics VG) and scoundrels, sages and commandos do not heal in dps trees. This argument is moot.

 

First, never said we had weak DCDs. Not sure where you got that from. Also, lack of CC is incorrect? Sent/Mara can't get a 4 second hard stun. Also, can't get a knockback. How is that incorrect?

 

Second, your comment about tanking in dps tree, or healing in dps tree, is a non sequitur. I never once said that anyone performs any role in a dps tree other than dps. What I said is that Guardians and Shadows have the ability to switch their spec if needed. Granted, they can't do that in the middle of a WZ, but they could do it while forming a 4-man team for Ranked Arenas, and they can also do it any time while PvEing. Switching to a different role is something that Sent/Maras and Sniper/Gunslingers can never do. Those ACs are always dps.

 

Third, Sents/Maras are not currently glass cannons. That comment was in response to the quoted text, implying I don't mind the idea of BECOMING "a bit of a glass cannon", by losing one of our defensive abilities (GbtF/UR) and gaining no extra defense to compensate, as opposed to, say, the heavy armor suggestion in the quoted text.

 

See, the thing about forums is that they're meant to be a conversation, thus some comments are in response to others and aren't meant to be considered in a vacuum. So if you're going to attack something someone said, you should make sure they actually said what you think they said.

 

In this case, you could have responded with something like, "If they lost just GbtF/UR, they still would be too survivable to be considered a glass cannon, even a 'bit of a glass cannon'." Then we could have a discussion. But since you just latched onto soundbite, completely ignored its context, and tried to be insulting and dismissive, I don't think there's any hope of that.