Holocron Legacy

[DarthTHC]

My most rational argument against it is that it removes content rewards for other people. Currently, the group of people who regularly go after datacrons for the stat bonus(which given is probably not all that large a group) only receives the reward of the stat bonus for their efforts. Removing that reward would be akin to removing gear drops from raids or commendations from pvp for that group of people. Again, they are a very small group of people, but we're still talking about something that dramatically affects that gameplay experience.

 

I wouldn't mind having datacron bonuses on all characters, but I'm not supporting the removal of content rewards for these people, even though I don't play the content.

 

How does it remove content rewards for other people? I see how it removes the advantage people with infinite time to play the game over those who do not have that luxury, but I don't see how it invalidates any legitimate content reward.

Edited December 13, 2013 by DarthTHC

[mikebevo]

I really love how someone is against this, so anyone that is for it is lazy.

 

I have gotten all the datacrons on 4 toons, the characters I use in operations. I suck a platform jumping, but I went through the process of getting the datacrons to give my groups the best chance for success. I am anything but lazy in game. However, I would love to see datacrons legacy wide. They could be unlocked only after reaching level 50 and level 55 (lower level planets unlock at 50 and then the last two unlock at 55, while you still have to get the +10 the old fashion way of grouping). That would still give people the incentive to get them earlier if they wanted the extra stats while leveling. I would also be for making so you have to be legacy 50 and have at least 4 to 6 toons with all the datacrons before it unlocks for the rest.

 

I would also like to see social legacy wide. My healers have been social 10 coming up on 18 months, while my dps are only social 5 or less. I am about ready to tell groups I can’t heal or deleting my healers.

[PetFish]

As far as understand bw thinks that this would be a good adition to a game.

 

Not really. One developer said a long time ago that it's on her personal wishlist which, to the Pro-Legacy Datacron people, meant that they were going 100% absolutely implement it... which just isn't true.

[morfius]

If you are asking that BW make some changes to the datacrons to reduce the amount of jumping, etc. needed to reach the datacrons, that I would support, as long as each character still needs to find the datacrons to receive the stat bonuses.

 

If you are asking to be able to find the datacrons on ONE character and receive those stat bonuses on EVERY character, present and future, that I do not support.

 

Both can work, issue with datacrons currently is that jumping and waiting is not well implemented... and add annoyance to play after first solved puzzle/found location.

So legacy (to have done it once) grapple skill unlocked on every character after you done all of them with two (one per faction), similar to item used for fleet one and points near each datacron (with jumping or waiting included) that make it work would be good and easy to implement solution.

[dazednconfuzed]

What about the people that find leveling, doing OPS or PVP too tedious or challenging yet do those things multiple times, in spite of the combination of computer specs, network latency and possible physical handicaps, to receive the benefits those activities provide?

 

Then they're idiots. This is a computer game. You play it for fun. Why would they do an actvity that they didn't enjoy, just for some shiny pixels?

 

Snipped the rest of your post off because it was all just more of the same crap you've been spouting since page 1.

 

You're the one who wants the new feature. I'm happy with things as they are.

 

Or, in other words 'Damn, they've taken away the PvP imbalance excuse. What other reasons can I come up with... Uhhhh...'

 

The datacrons are completely OPTIONAL. The bonuses have been called a "rounding error", implying that they are minimal and insignificant. The lack of those bonuses will have minimal impact on a player's game.

 

So, what is the big problem with Legacy datacrons? If all you get are lore entries and extremely minor stat bonuses, what is the problem with unlocking them per legacy? Don't come out with more garbage about EARNING them. The stat bonuses were your big problem with that, and that has now been taken out of the question by showing exactly how minor they are.

 

As for one of your other questions, all these convenience items I was talking about a few pages back. Yourself, or someone else from the anti-legacy crowd asked me how having convenience quick travel affects your character stats. Simple. It's a matter of time. I can either spend 15 minutes staring a loading screens trying to move from, say, the fleet to the Black Hole zone, or I can use a quick travel perk, and spend those 15 minutes getting half of the dailies done there. Now add those 15 minutes up every time you go to a daily world. 4 worlds, you've saved yourself an hour. That's a whole extra 60 minutes to put towards something else. Over a week, or a month, that adds up, and the player with the convenience perks soon has an advantage over someone who has to travel via their ship every time, simply because they have had more time to develop their character and gear.

 

The datacrons are exactly the same. You have had the time to spend collecting them all on multiple characters, other people haven't, so they are asking for them to be made more convenient, and you are whining that that your 'hard work' is meaningless.

 

Personally, on the subject of meaningless hard work, I feel sorry for all those people who completed the level 50 raids at level 50. Now, that is meaningless.

Edited December 18, 2013 by dazednconfuzed

[Asden]

Then they're idiots. This is a computer game. You play it for fun. Why would they do an actvity that they didn't enjoy, just for some shiny pixels?

 

Snipped the rest of your post off because it was all just more of the same crap you've been spouting since page 1.

 

 

 

Or, in other words 'Damn, they've taken away the PvP imbalance excuse. What other reasons can I come up with... Uhhhh...'

 

 

 

So, what is the big problem with Legacy datacrons? If all you get are lore entries and extremely minor stat bonuses, what is the problem with unlocking them per legacy? Don't come out with more garbage about EARNING them. The stat bonuses were your big problem with that, and that has now been taken out of the question by showing exactly how minor they are.

 

As for one of your other questions, all these convenience items I was talking about a few pages back. Yourself, or someone else from the anti-legacy crowd asked me how having convenience quick travel affects your character stats. Simple. It's a matter of time. I can either spend 15 minutes staring a loading screens trying to move from, say, the fleet to the Black Hole zone, or I can use a quick travel perk, and spend those 15 minutes getting half of the dailies done there. Now add those 15 minutes up every time you go to a daily world. 4 worlds, you've saved yourself an hour. That's a whole extra 60 minutes to put towards something else. Over a week, or a month, that adds up, and the player with the convenience perks soon has an advantage over someone who has to travel via their ship every time, simply because they have had more time to develop their character and gear.

 

The datacrons are exactly the same. You have had the time to spend collecting them all on multiple characters, other people haven't, so they are asking for them to be made more convenient, and you are whining that that your 'hard work' is meaningless.

 

Personally, on the subject of meaningless hard work, I feel sorry for all those people who completed the level 50 raids at level 50. Now, that is meaningless.

 

I feel bad for people completing raids at 55 since 70 is right around over that hill but that is the name of MMO game . So your argument is invalid my friend

[Hassat-Hunter]

Wow, this thread is still going strong. That must be the most objections to a QOL feature if I ever saw one. I guess some people just hate fun...

The pro-Legacy Datacron people always seem to say this yet have no problem doing the same dailies/flashpoints/raids/levelng missions/etc over and over and over again. It feels like it's just one giant hypocritical conspiracy theory cuz I can't believe they don't see this giant flaw in their logic.

You're playing the game. Why? Why isn't it then that you also do this annoying jumpy (with bad controls)/waiting (with lots of zzzzzz) side-activity every time again. Why would you want to play the game so much more? What's this game so fun for. It's being a hypocrite if you play the game, but not like spending hours of time well leveling leaving the trotted paths for the most annoying time of your life. Who likes fun anyway these days. Work dammit. What is this, a game???

A dev did make that statement 7 months ago, but there has been NOTHING further from any dev about legacy datacrons.

Space stuff didn't take 2 years or something. BW isn't the fastest bunch. Game development takes time.

More non-news (that somehow still surprises people) at 9!

What about the people that find leveling, doing OPS or PVP too tedious

"But what about the people NOT PLAYING THIS GAME?"

Oh, right, they might do Galactic Starfighter now, but seriously. Someone not liking leveling, pvp AND endgame pve? That's like asking 'Why does no one think of the FPS player making this RTS?'

Point me to one, ONE person who ONLY plays this game for the datacron hunt. You can't find it you say, how odd.

I personally like GSF, but I would have objected if it gave base boosts in the main game since I can understand others may not like it as much. Sad to see such skill to life yourself into others is missing in Ratajack still.

They've made a horrible mistake adding permanent boosts to a side-activity. Here's their chance to rectify it. That they didn't make the same mistake with the bino's, seeker droid or GSF already made us aware they learned it was a bad idea in the first place. But the original failure is still kept intact ingame.

 

Now I am AGAINST making it legacy lvl 50 requirement. Which would only add the boost for longtime players, leaving a distinct advantage over new players. Somewhat the same to P2W so incorrectly used here, but still an unfair advantage. I'm against unfair advantages, so obviously I would not support that (while staying pro Legacy-datacron obviously). It should remain a convience, not an unfair advantage...

 

Also, I find it quite funny Ratajack basically agrees with us, and states so (if you got it on one char, add a thingie to make it easier for alts)... and still had 31 pages of anti-posts.

Seriously dude, ***?

[AlrikFassbauer]

I still don't know which Datachrons I did for my Sage - I simply lost track of it because the last Datachron I found for him, I found a few months ago ...

[branmakmuffin]

Or, in other words 'Damn, they've taken away the PvP imbalance excuse. What other reasons can I come up with... Uhhhh...

What reason do you have for adding it, other than "My 'OCD' won't allow me to not have the datacrons on all characters?" It's agreed upon by both "sides" that the bonuses are pretty minor, so "I need the bonuses to be competitive" is a failed argument.

[Hassat-Hunter]

No, I don't agree the bonusses are minor.

[branmakmuffin]

No, I don't agree the bonusses are minor.

Then I guess to you it's worth spending the play time to get the datacrons.

[mikebevo]

I still don't know which Datachrons I did for my Sage - I simply lost track of it because the last Datachron I found for him, I found a few months ago ...

 

Look at your Codex and compare it to the this. http://www.swtor-spy.com/codex/achievement-datacrons/11/ Doesn't have the ones on Makeb, but you should be able to figure those two out.

[Hassat-Hunter]

Then I guess to you it's worth spending the play time to get the datacrons.

Yeah... no. I don't particularly want me to die of boredome. And I know you want me to ragequit TOR and leave forever, but that wont do BioWare any good.

 

So, the chars just go in dissuse. Again, not that good for BioWare for keeping me (or other players) around. If only there was some easy way to make everyone happy...

(well, besides Ratajack then, but I'm not quite sure why he has a whole crusade against this)

[branmakmuffin]

Yeah... no. I don't particularly want me to die of boredome.

Then I guess it's not worth the play time to get them. So what's the issue?

 

And I know you want me to ragequit TOR and leave forever, but that wont do BioWare any good.

I don't care what you do. I don''t know who you are nor do I care.

 

So, the chars just go in dissuse.

If you mothball a character because your "OCD" can't deal with not having all the datacrons on it,. that's your business.

 

Again, not that good for BioWare for keeping me (or other players) around. If only there was some easy way to make everyone happy...

(well, besides Ratajack then, but I'm not quite sure why he has a whole crusade against this)

Well, then vote with your $ and quit. Don't just fret and fume and threaten to do it. Do or do not.

 

We both know you're not gonna quit over this, though.

Edited December 19, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Hassat-Hunter]

Then I guess it's not worth the play time to get them. So what's the issue?

It isn't. However due to the stat-rewards, you pretty much are forced or gimp yourself intentionally. I much rather want my group to be fully functional, and making them all go through such a repetitive task once, okay, twice, okay... 8 times. No. I want people to be at their peak efficiency while playing fp's, op's, pvp, when playing together.

Why should this be tied to a boring, horrible, singleplayer jumping platform waiting game is beyond me.

I don't care what you do. I don''t know who you are nor do I care.

I know you don't. Interest in other players, don't caring for other players are seen quite obviously in your post.

Except of course if they want to spend their game rather hunting datacrons once, and then not go through the same process they already proved they can do, just for the benefit on other chars.

Then you somehow do care. Cause, woe befoe how others want to play their game. That should be illegal or something!

If you mothball a character because your "OCD" can't deal with not having all the datacrons on it,. that's your business.

No OCD, I just don't want to burden my potential teammates with a sub-par character build due to some decent lacking bonusses.

It's called 'caring for other peoples gameplay'... It's fun, I suggest you try it. I think most people would appreciate it too.

Well, then vote with your $ and quit. Don't just fret and fume and threaten to do it. Do or do not.

I'm a preffered player, only sub during an action. It's funny you go "vote with your wallet" on a player playing primarily free.

Which however does not mean BW wont have income due to me. I buy passes off the GTN, CC items of the GTN. Others obviously have bought to offer me, and get credits in return. Which in turn generates money for BioWare. So indirectly I do generate an income-stream to BioWare by remaining playing and active. Something I probably doubt they want to loose. Specially seeing how the Cartel Market makes more money than the Subs-system.

We both know you're not gonna quit over this, though.

Still got a few storylines to go through, yeah. Beyond that though...

[branmakmuffin]

It isn't. However due to the stat-rewards, you pretty much are forced or gimp yourself intentionally.

Forced. Gotcha. You are being forced to not get the datacrons.

 

I much rather want my group to be fully functional, and making them all go through such a repetitive task once, okay, twice, okay... 8 times. No. I want people to be at their peak efficiency while playing fp's, op's, pvp, when playing together.

Why should this be tied to a boring, horrible, singleplayer jumping platform waiting game is beyond me.

Well, as I said, either it's worth the play time or it's not. If the stat bonuses are that valuable to you, then I guess it's worth the play time. If it's not worth the play time, then I guess the stat bonuses are not that valuable. There's really no way you can win this argument.

 

I know you don't. Interest in other players, don't caring for other players are seen quite obviously in your post.

Except of course if they want to spend their game rather hunting datacrons once, and then not go through the same process they already proved they can do, just for the benefit on other chars.

Then you somehow do care. Cause, woe befoe how others want to play their game. That should be illegal or something!

I's a game. Play it or don't. Getting the datacrons is a game within the game. Do it or don't.

 

No OCD, I just don't want to burden my potential teammates with a sub-par character build due to some decent lacking bonusses.

No, this is not for the benefit of other players. That's patently disingenuous.

 

It's called 'caring for other peoples gameplay'... It's fun, I suggest you try it. I think most people would appreciate it too.

If you really think that having the datacron bonuses is that important to the game play of other players, then go get the datacrons. If you can't be bothered to get them, then I guess having the datacrons for the sake of other players is really not all that important. There really is no way you can win this argument.

 

I'm a preffered player, only sub during an action. It's funny you go "vote with your wallet" on a player playing primarily free.

Nice try. Only subs (or recent un-subs whose posting privileges have not been turned off yet) can post.

 

Bottom line, this is about completionism, nothing else.

Edited December 19, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Hassat-Hunter]

It's worth the play time or it's not. If pvp is that valuable to you, then I guess it's worth the play time. If it's not worth the play time, then I guess pvp is not that valuable. There's really no way you can win this argument.

Well, great argument. PvPer should now forever shut up, not expect anything new, should stop whining about balance and accept what they have. Because if they like it, they do it. If not they don't. The fine line missing inbetween, liking but wanting improvements is completely oblivious to you!

And the same here. There are shades of grey between your pure black & white thinking. But yeah, if you conviently disregard them. And ad hoctem make it a pure yes/no binary statement, with nothing inbetween sure I can't win the argument.

But that has more to do with your way of argumentation or your rather shallow view than the argument itself. It's hard winning an argument from a wall. Doesn't mean the wall is right or the winner.

I look forward to the mass wronly interpretation of above words btw...

 

I's a game. Play it or don't.

Wow, again, your options are very very deep. Play it or don't. Love all of it or nothing. There is no wanting improvements. If you think one feature needs tweaking, the obvious solution would be to stop playing completely. There isn't any other way after all. There should be no suggestion on games to improve the things you dislike, no, you should stop playing completely. If the entire playerbase followed your suggestion, no one would be playing anymore, I am sure.

And no, GSF is a game within a game. Because datacrons are so heavily tied to PvP and PvE, they are definitely not falling in the same category.

 

As for your last part, L2R (Learn to Read).

I'm a preffered player, only sub during an action.

[branmakmuffin]

It's worth the play time or it's not. If pvp is that valuable to you, then I guess it's worth the play time. If it's not worth the play time, then I guess pvp is not that valuable. There's really no way you can win this argument.

Exactly. The rewards PvPing offers are not worth it to me, so I don't PvP.

 

I's a game. Play it or don't.

Wow, again, your options are very very deep. Play it or don't. Love all of it or nothing.

It's a game, not a heart-lung transplant.

 

There is no wanting improvements. If you think one feature needs tweaking, the obvious solution would be to stop playing completely.

Or, you know, do what I do: accept that it's just a game and deal with the fact that it's never going to be 100% awesome.

 

And no, GSF is a game within a game. Because datacrons are so heavily tied to PvP and PvE, they are definitely not falling in the same category.

The only thing datacrons are heavily tied to is some players' need to "complete."

 

As for your last part, L2R (Learn to Read).

I'm a preffered player, only sub during an action.

You might drop back to Preferred, but if you're posting, you're a sub. I have no idea what you mean by "an action" (I suspect you're not entirely clear on it, either; I also suspect English is not your native language).

 

L2 whatever it is you need to L2.

Edited December 19, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[Ratajack]

No, I don't agree the bonusses are minor.

 

Then EARN those bonuses. Don't expect them to be handed to you.

[Ratajack]

Wow, this thread is still going strong. That must be the most objections to a QOL feature if I ever saw one. I guess some people just hate fun...

 

You're playing the game. Why? Why isn't it then that you also do this annoying jumpy (with bad controls)/waiting (with lots of zzzzzz) side-activity every time again. Why would you want to play the game so much more? What's this game so fun for. It's being a hypocrite if you play the game, but not like spending hours of time well leveling leaving the trotted paths for the most annoying time of your life. Who likes fun anyway these days. Work dammit. What is this, a game???

 

Space stuff didn't take 2 years or something. BW isn't the fastest bunch. Game development takes time.

More non-news (that somehow still surprises people) at 9!

 

You go through the side activity to EARN those stat bonuses that you claim are not minor and are necessary if you do not want to "gimp" yourself.

 

 

"But what about the people NOT PLAYING THIS GAME?"

Oh, right, they might do Galactic Starfighter now, but seriously. Someone not liking leveling, pvp AND endgame pve? That's like asking 'Why does no one think of the FPS player making this RTS?'

Point me to one, ONE person who ONLY plays this game for the datacron hunt. You can't find it you say, how odd.

I personally like GSF, but I would have objected if it gave base boosts in the main game since I can understand others may not like it as much. Sad to see such skill to life yourself into others is missing in Ratajack still.

They've made a horrible mistake adding permanent boosts to a side-activity. Here's their chance to rectify it. That they didn't make the same mistake with the bino's, seeker droid or GSF already made us aware they learned it was a bad idea in the first place. But the original failure is still kept intact ingame.

 

Now I am AGAINST making it legacy lvl 50 requirement. Which would only add the boost for longtime players, leaving a distinct advantage over new players. Somewhat the same to P2W so incorrectly used here, but still an unfair advantage. I'm against unfair advantages, so obviously I would not support that (while staying pro Legacy-datacron obviously). It should remain a convience, not an unfair advantage...

 

Also, I find it quite funny Ratajack basically agrees with us, and states so (if you got it on one char, add a thingie to make it easier for alts)... and still had 31 pages of anti-posts.

Seriously dude, ***?

 

Where did I say that there were people playing the game solely for the datacrons?

 

For the reading challenged, let me break my question down into separate questions.

 

What about the people that don't like doing OPS but want the BIS gear? Should ALL of their characters automatically be handed a BIS piece if they get one from an OP on ONE character? After all, they already proved they can do it once. Why make them go through something they don't like on every character?

 

What about the person who doesn't like PVP but wants the PVP outfits because they like the look? Should ALL of their characters automatically be handed an equivalent piece of PVP gear when they purchase a piece on ONE character? After all, they already proved they can do it once. Why make them go through something they don't like on every character?

 

What about the person who plays this game for the endgame OPS but doesn't like the leveling process? SHould they be able to create max level characters since they already leveled one to max level? After all, they already proved they can do it once. Why make them go through something they don't like on every character?

 

You're against a legacy level 50 requirement? I'm gonna bet that you are not legacy 50 and that your objection to that suggested requirement likely has nothing to do with any concern for other players.

 

Finally, please explain how I'm even remotely agreeing with you.

[Seireeni]

What about the people that don't like doing OPS but want the BIS gear? Should ALL of their characters automatically be handed a BIS piece if they get one from an OP on ONE character? After all, they already proved they can do it once. Why make them go through something they don't like on every character?

 

What about the person who doesn't like PVP but wants the PVP outfits because they like the look? Should ALL of their characters automatically be handed an equivalent piece of PVP gear when they purchase a piece on ONE character? After all, they already proved they can do it once. Why make them go through something they don't like on every character?

 

Ops gear is gear that you aquire through ops and it helps you in ops.

Pvp gear is gear that you aquire through pvp and it helps you in pvp.

Datacron stats are stats that you aquire through datacron hunting that help you in pvp and ops(/pve overall), not datacron hunting.

 

See the difference? If datacron stats helped you with datacron hunting, not pvp and pve, or you could aquire them through other means (i.e. pvp), I'd have no complaints. But it doesn't. As I mentioned earlier, they are like completing HM DP would give 20+ to expertise.

[Ratajack]

Ops gear is gear that you aquire through ops and it helps you in ops.

Pvp gear is gear that you aquire through pvp and it helps you in pvp.

Datacron stats are stats that you aquire through datacron hunting that help you in pvp and ops(/pve overall), not datacron hunting.

 

See the difference? If datacron stats helped you with datacron hunting, not pvp and pve, or you could aquire them through other means (i.e. pvp), I'd have no complaints. But it doesn't. As I mentioned earlier, they are like completing HM DP would give 20+ to expertise.

 

You want to claim that since PVP gear helps you in PVP that it should remain earned per character and since OPS gear helps you in OPS it should remain earned per character but that PERMANENT stat bonuses that help you in ALL aspects of the game should be handed to EVERY character for doing it ONCE?

 

Do you not see how illogical that is?

[Seireeni]

You want to claim that since PVP gear helps you in PVP that it should remain earned per character and since OPS gear helps you in OPS it should remain earned per character but that PERMANENT stat bonuses that help you in ALL aspects of the game should be handed to EVERY character for doing it ONCE?

 

Do you not see how illogical that is?

 

I'm claiming that since the way datacrons are aquired differences so much from how pvp/pve gear is aquired, they really shouldn't be compared. The way they are aquired isn't similiar at all. With i.e. pvp gear, the stats help you to do better in pvp. They don't make you better at ops or some other part of the game, so one could say if you don't like pvp, you don't do much with that pvp gear. But datacrons are a different case. You don't like datacron hunting? Well, too bad, since it's the only way to aquire those stats, which will help you in other things than datacron hunting (while absolutely nothing helps you to make datacron hunting easier).

[Aries_cz]

Ops gear is gear that you aquire through ops and it helps you in ops.

Pvp gear is gear that you aquire through pvp and it helps you in pvp.

Datacron stats are stats that you aquire through datacron hunting that help you in pvp and ops(/pve overall), not datacron hunting.

 

See the difference? If datacron stats helped you with datacron hunting, not pvp and pve, or you could aquire them through other means (i.e. pvp), I'd have no complaints. But it doesn't. As I mentioned earlier, they are like completing HM DP would give 20+ to expertise.

 

See here, but you have to acquire PvE/PvP gear on each character as well (unless you play only one stat classes). So why should datacrons be legacy wide? Do you also want each character to get Dread Forged gear because you got it on one character?

[Seireeni]

See here, but you have to acquire PvE/PvP gear on each character as well (unless you play only one stat classes). So why should datacrons be legacy wide? Do you also want each character to get Dread Forged gear because you got it on one character?

 

You are missing my point. Datacron stats and pve/pvp gear are not very comparable at all. What datacrons are comparable with would be getting experise +20 from completing HM DP. It would be a stat that wouldn't help you with ops at all, but you'd aquire it through ops. It would also be something pvp players would do, but it would take them a lot of time and many of them wouldn't enjoy it at all (after all, they would rather be pvping, not dying over and over again). I bet they would be asking an alternative way to get this stat - either through pvp or as a legacy unlock.