Revan vs Darth Maul

[XSUPREMESKILLZX]

I'd just like to share these quotes from Drew Karpyshyn stated in one of his emails:

 

"though he was skilled in all of them - he was always more of a generalist than a specialist."

- Drew, on Revan's skill with lightsaber forms.

 

"And, if the situation was right he might be able to collapse a building; it would really depend on his state of mind and the circumstances."

-Drew, on Revan's TK

 

also, here are some other random questions and answers:

 

Questions:

1. What does it mean that Revan is ''heart of the Force?''

 

2. Is Revan really more powerful than Nihilus, as is suggested by the Exile in Revan novelization?

 

3. Did Revan reach oneness state when he released a combination of light side and dark side against Sith Emperor in Revan novelization?

 

4. In Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil novelization, it is noted that on Ambria, the nexus is trapped within the lake, but Zannah, when spawning dark-side tendrils, draws nexus energy from the soil and stone. How does this work?

 

5. If Darth Bane had opportunity to choose if he could wear the orbalisks in Darth Bane: Rule of Two novelization, do you think he would decline?

 

6. Is Darth Bane the Sith'ari?

 

Answers:

 

1. It doesn't mean anything specific; only that he is very connected to the Force.

 

2. I don't like to say A is stronger than B; I explain why on my FAQ page. They were both very powerful, though not in the exact same way.

 

3. I'm not sure what you mean by a "oneness state". Revan is a powerful Force user who draws on both the light and dark side of the Force, but he was always kind of like that.

 

4. The Force permeats all things, and while much of the power is concentrated in the lake, it seeps through everything. Zannah basically was drawing on the power trapped there for thousands of years.

 

5. It's hard to say; they gave him great power but they also almost destroyed him. I'm not sure what he would do, to be honest.

 

6. I like to leave this open to interpretation. Some people say yes, some say no; it depends on who you define the various prophecies. But I don't believe this has a definitive answer; it's always open to interpretation.

[Beniboybling]

In your opinion.

 

With no backing.

 

Consider this, Marek did not have powerful enough Lightning to breach Vaders suit in their final duel, it simply wasn't enough, he needed the Pylons power. Therefore, the Pylons Electricity > Mareks Lightning, but Marek was still able to channel it through him like a conduit.

 

Revan is no different, and I fail to see how you do not understand that.

No backing? May I ask again what yours is? That some people have more iron in their bodies than others and therefore are better conduits? It just makes logical sense, clearly when the whole block his lightning with your hands thing comes about the direct-contest-of-power-like-in-Harry-Potter-trope is being invoked.

 

Consider the facts, Sidious and Yoda where equally matched because they are nigh equal in the Force at that point, Sidious overwhelmed Marek, Vitiate overwhelmed Revan etc. etc.

 

I'm not sure why Vader is being brought up here, aside from in game mechanics (in which Vader would lose if you mashed the right buttons) Vader has never tried to or successfully blocked Marek's lighting.

 

I'm also confused as this pylon business, quite obviously Marek used the lightning to increase his own power, not just throw it at Vader's. Because the Force is the ultimate power in the Star Wars universe and is certainly not topped by Mother Nature. But again even if that was the case it still bears no relevance...

 

...given the fact that Revan did not absorb Nyriss' lightning and then use that power to attack her with his own (which makes it different) he just overcame it - that's all that's important - forget the rest. Revan blocked Nyriss' attack and threw it back at her, just like one would block a sword attack and throw it off. The lightning could not have charged him in anyway because 1. if it had he would have channeled it into some kind of attack 2. the lightning would dissipate or at the very least not be strong enough to disintegrate Nyriss.

 

Noting of course that if Nyriss was more powerful, it would have been too hard for him to handle. Else Galen Marek would have knocked Sidious on his butt and Yoda would have blasted him into dust. That didn't happen.

 

Overcoming power is overcoming power, spin whatever way you like.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

Oneness isn't something he could just pull out whenever he wanted, is what I am getting at. It's not his own power to do so and pull it out whenever he is in trouble.

 

Ok yes I see, but Revan meanwhile hasn't shown himself to make himself Immobile with The Force, nor able to manipulate electronics or show beast control. Has he moved something the size of a starship or comparable?

 

I'm not talking about Force Barriers here or w/e, just what they are able to do using The Force is what I'm saying here.

And my point is that it is a definite demonstration of his power then compared with other feats of Oneness.

 

Being able to do things Revan can't do doesn't make him stronger. Its what both of them can do and who can do it better that's important i.e. telekinesis and yes, Force barriers - which are entirely relevant as they are closely related to one's power in the Force. The stronger you are the stronger your barriers, clearly Kenobi isn't that.

 

And as I have already said, Revan was able to lift and launch multiple miniature asteroids simultaneously, combined I am sure they are heavy than a starship and then some.

[Beniboybling]

Yeah, it's a game mechanic.

Given that it hasn't been replaced by any superior material, I'd say its relevant.

 

Game mechanics are after all not officially N-Canon. Too be taken with a pinch of salt perhaps, but I don't think we can just pretend that Revan never threw space rocks, perhaps not tonnes of space rocks, but he threw em.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

I'd just like to share these quotes from Drew Karpyshyn stated in one of his emails:

 

"though he was skilled in all of them - he was always more of a generalist than a specialist."

- Drew, on Revan's skill with lightsaber forms.

 

"And, if the situation was right he might be able to collapse a building; it would really depend on his state of mind and the circumstances."

-Drew, on Revan's TK

 

also, here are some other random questions and answers:

 

Questions:

1. What does it mean that Revan is ''heart of the Force?''

 

2. Is Revan really more powerful than Nihilus, as is suggested by the Exile in Revan novelization?

 

3. Did Revan reach oneness state when he released a combination of light side and dark side against Sith Emperor in Revan novelization?

 

4. In Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil novelization, it is noted that on Ambria, the nexus is trapped within the lake, but Zannah, when spawning dark-side tendrils, draws nexus energy from the soil and stone. How does this work?

 

5. If Darth Bane had opportunity to choose if he could wear the orbalisks in Darth Bane: Rule of Two novelization, do you think he would decline?

 

6. Is Darth Bane the Sith'ari?

 

Answers:

 

1. It doesn't mean anything specific; only that he is very connected to the Force.

 

2. I don't like to say A is stronger than B; I explain why on my FAQ page. They were both very powerful, though not in the exact same way.

 

3. I'm not sure what you mean by a "oneness state". Revan is a powerful Force user who draws on both the light and dark side of the Force, but he was always kind of like that.

 

4. The Force permeats all things, and while much of the power is concentrated in the lake, it seeps through everything. Zannah basically was drawing on the power trapped there for thousands of years.

 

5. It's hard to say; they gave him great power but they also almost destroyed him. I'm not sure what he would do, to be honest.

 

6. I like to leave this open to interpretation. Some people say yes, some say no; it depends on who you define the various prophecies. But I don't believe this has a definitive answer; it's always open to interpretation.

Awesome stuff! That actually helps clear up quite a few unanswered questions.

 

Also finally clears up that whole heart of the Force clap trap lol.

[Wolfninjajedi]

And my point is that it is a definite demonstration of his power then compared with other feats of Oneness.

 

Being able to do things Revan can't do doesn't make him stronger. Its what both of them can do and who can do it better that's important i.e. telekinesis and yes, Force barriers - which are entirely relevant as they are closely related to one's power in the Force. The stronger you are the stronger your barriers, clearly Kenobi isn't that.

 

And as I have already said, Revan was able to lift and launch multiple miniature asteroids simultaneously, combined I am sure they are heavy than a starship and then some.

 

I never said it made Obi-Wan stronger, what I am saying is that they both have shown things the other can't. When I meant Force Barriers I was speaking of natural defense, and when I was speaking of that I was saying not to include it.

 

As for the asteroid thing, that's game mechanic...not something to be taken as hard evidence. Though even if we are to take that, those meteors didn't look big.

 

But anyway i'll just end this here, all I am saying is they seem roughly comparable with some catagories going to one and some catagories going to the other.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

Given that it hasn't been replaced by any superior material, I'd say its relevant.

 

Game mechanics are after all not officially N-Canon. Too be taken with a pinch of salt perhaps, but I don't think we can just pretend that Revan never threw space rocks, perhaps not tonnes of space rocks, but he threw em.

 

I don't think he threw them. Granted my computer has the processing power of a potato (or maybe it's been too long since I did that FP), but weren't they already falling?

 

I also remember him fighting whilst doing that, so, if anything, it's likely he only altered their trajectory (because I remember space rocks moving through the area).

 

Going to have to level my newbie Merc some more...

[XSUPREMESKILLZX]

6:15 and on.

[Wolfninjajedi]

6:15 and on.

 

They don't look very big looking at them.

[Selenial]

They don't look very big looking at them.

 

And weren't even being moved by him, all in all, mauls done better...

[Beniboybling]

And weren't even being moved by him, all in all, mauls done better...

Erm, I'm not sure he has... they didn't just move my themselves Revan had to pull them out of whatever gravity field they were been held in - pull then into the arena and then launch them at his enemies. Clearly he did not just drop them given the increased velocity they were moving at which was enough that they exploded on impact.

 

And I don't know about you guys, but I'd define any rock three times as big as me as quite big. The rocks you see in the background at least are gigantic.

 

All in all, I think it would require more strength than dragging a fighter of a cliff, which is not only lighter but he never actually lifted the thing off the ground or propelled it, he just dragged it and let it fall.

 

Regardless I don't think Maul being more powerful than Revan was ever being seriously considered...

 

EDIT: We also have the fact that Revan is probably more powerful than Traya, for whatever that's worth.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

I never said it made Obi-Wan stronger, what I am saying is that they both have shown things the other can't. When I meant Force Barriers I was speaking of natural defense, and when I was speaking of that I was saying not to include it.

 

As for the asteroid thing, that's game mechanic...not something to be taken as hard evidence. Though even if we are to take that, those meteors didn't look big.

 

But anyway i'll just end this here, all I am saying is they seem roughly comparable with some catagories going to one and some catagories going to the other.

Which means nothing, really. And concerning Force barriers, the very fact that they are a natural defense is why they are important. As a passive power they are far more reliant on one's own ability than one's skill. Again the more powerful the Force User the more powerful the barrier, Kenobi's barriers are clearly much weaker than Revan's.

 

That's what makes them relevant and why they should definitely be considered.

 

And no the asteroid thing isn't to be taken without a pinch of salt, but in the end we can't pretend it didn't happen and Kenobi to my knowledge has never lifted and launched a object three times his size, let alone several.

 

All in all, I don't think there is a single category that Kenobi even begins to rival Revan in. Which, bringing it back to the debate would mean he would not be overcome by Maul's speed and probably able to overwhelm him with strength or blast him away with the Force.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

I don't think he threw them. Granted my computer has the processing power of a potato (or maybe it's been too long since I did that FP), but weren't they already falling?

 

I also remember him fighting whilst doing that, so, if anything, it's likely he only altered their trajectory (because I remember space rocks moving through the area).

 

Going to have to level my newbie Merc some more...

They were in some gravity field, I'd assume they have to be pulled out of that field and at that point would be under the influence of gravity, so Revan would end up having to suspend them.

 

And given that they were in a field, they were moving very slowly - if he altered the trajectory they would never reach their targets. Given the fact that they came directly from above I'm assume he pulled some out from the top and them flung them down and let gravity do the rest, still very impressive in terms of telekinesis I feel.

[RTCBrad]

Read thisNot let's stop derailing this thread shall we.

 

Sadly it still means nothing. Stop trying to use every Revan thread in a poor attempt to argue Meetra is better when she quite clearly as per canon is considerably weaker. Despite all of your assumptions and things she had previously and whatever else, fact is she could totally stomped by a council member even with help from Scourge.

 

While Revan completely annihilated said council member with ease and even referred to her as nothing before him. By doing this they have put Revan in a totally different league to Meetra. At this time in the Galaxy there is no being more powerful than Revan, save perhaps the Emperor, though I am 100% confident when the Emperor is actually defeated (not his avatar) Revan will be the one that does it not a PC.

 

Anyway off topic.

 

Maul honestly wouldn't stand a chance. There isn't even much else to say, look at what Revan can do and look and what Maul has done how could anyone ever imagine a situation where Maul would even be a threat to Revan let alone beat him.

Edited November 28, 2013 by RTCBrad

[LadyKulvax]

Can't let it go can you? simply put, you trying to state that I use every thread Revan is involved in to assert my opinions on the matter is flatly false, you are barely even around here, so dont throw blatant accusations at me, but hey if you want to take an all-out lightsaber duel as a fact of over-all resounding superiority, then Mace Windu was clearly as powerful as Darth Sidious. *eye-roll* Edited November 28, 2013 by LadyKulvax

[RTCBrad]

Difference is I'm not trying to deny/fight canon, you are

[Selenial]

Difference is I'm not trying to deny/fight canon, you are

 

No, you're blindly ignoring canon.

[Selenial]

Erm, I'm not sure he has... they didn't just move my themselves Revan had to pull them out of whatever gravity field they were been held in - pull then into the arena and then launch them at his enemies. Clearly he did not just drop them given the increased velocity they were moving at which was enough that they exploded on impact.

 

And I don't know about you guys, but I'd define any rock three times as big as me as quite big. The rocks you see in the background at least are gigantic.

 

All in all, I think it would require more strength than dragging a fighter of a cliff, which is not only lighter but he never actually lifted the thing off the ground or propelled it, he just dragged it and let it fall.

 

Regardless I don't think Maul being more powerful than Revan was ever being seriously considered...

 

EDIT: We also have the fact that Revan is probably more powerful than Traya, for whatever that's worth.

 

The rocks are always falling, so that's a no, and smaller rocks fall faster due to Aerodynamics (assuming the entire chamber was containing air, which is likely) Oh, and it wasn't a fighter, it was a large shuttle, that'd be as heavy as any asteroid, all revan did was... Nothing, he either tilted already falling rocks, or nothing at all......

[RTCBrad]

No, you're blindly ignoring canon.

 

Elaborate, where exactly have I ignored canon?

[Darkelefantos]

The rocks are always falling, so that's a no, and smaller rocks fall faster due to Aerodynamics (assuming the entire chamber was containing air, which is likely) Oh, and it wasn't a fighter, it was a large shuttle, that'd be as heavy as any asteroid, all revan did was... Nothing, he either tilted already falling rocks, or nothing at all......

 

Alright, I don't see why you would assume the "chamber" to be filled with air - it was open to space, and any rocks would be stopped by a shield if there was one.

 

And then, Revan directs the asteroids at targets with basically pinpoint precision. That's actually way more impressive then it seems at first. Consider the effort it took someone as powerful and gifted as Galen Marek to even slightly tilt a falling Star Destroyer just enough not to kill him.

 

But alas, this is not the Revan vs Obi-Wan thread, but the Revan vs Maul thread. And so far, Maul never showed any successful defenses against Force Lightning, which is a power Revan uses with extreme proficiency. Revan would certainly be able to create an opening to employ that technique. He does it in the Foundry against 4 very skilled enemies. At that point, Maul will have difficulty reacting appropriately. He was shown walking through weaker Force Lightning, which is clearly outclassed by the one Revan employs, but he had no defense against Sidious' Lightning, who obviously didn't use all his power. That might be one of the decisive moments of such a battle - if it ever came down to it, anyway.

[Beniboybling]

Sadly it still means nothing. Stop trying to use every Revan thread in a poor attempt to argue Meetra is better when she quite clearly as per canon is considerably weaker. Despite all of your assumptions and things she had previously and whatever else, fact is she could totally stomped by a council member even with help from Scourge.

 

While Revan completely annihilated said council member with ease and even referred to her as nothing before him. By doing this they have put Revan in a totally different league to Meetra. At this time in the Galaxy there is no being more powerful than Revan, save perhaps the Emperor, though I am 100% confident when the Emperor is actually defeated (not his avatar) Revan will be the one that does it not a PC.

 

Anyway off topic.

 

Maul honestly wouldn't stand a chance. There isn't even much else to say, look at what Revan can do and look and what Maul has done how could anyone ever imagine a situation where Maul would even be a threat to Revan let alone beat him.

Calm down, and stop treating other people's opinions as inferior to your own.

 

There is no canon statement as of yet that definitely states Revan to be a superior Force User to the Exile - its your opinion against hers, so don't say silly and insulting things and tell people to stop doing this and that.

 

You have an opinion, she disagrees, let it go.

[Beniboybling]

The rocks are always falling, so that's a no, and smaller rocks fall faster due to Aerodynamics (assuming the entire chamber was containing air, which is likely) Oh, and it wasn't a fighter, it was a large shuttle, that'd be as heavy as any asteroid, all revan did was... Nothing, he either tilted already falling rocks, or nothing at all......

I think your missing my point here. The rocks are clearly in some kind of gravity field considering the speed at which they are falling - and the fact that they are inside where rocks don't fall from the sky - inside an asteroid mining facility no less. Given that simply tilting them would do nothing, the gravity field would keep them in place as it is designed to do and then would come at angles rather than downward. It simply doesn't make logical sense.

 

The only explanation is that Revan pulled them from the gravity field and into the arena, that action in itself would demand that he has the strength to simultaneously lift several asteroids as once out of the field they would be under the influence of gravity. Now at this point he either dropped them, or threw them, its not really relevant, all that matters is that he lifted them into place with the Force. He did not tilt them and let the invisible mass driver cannons do the rest. And given the speed at which they moved he probably do propel them.

 

Concerning the shuttle, like I said, he did not lift it, simply drag it off a cliff - and let gravity do the rest. That requires significantly less effort as one only has to influence the weight of the shuttle, and not its gravitational pull. Regardless the combined weight of all the rocks Revan projected (which he did so simultaneously) is heavier than that shuttle.

 

That and Revan managed to perform while being attacked by four powerful opponents, while Maul did not. I mean really, would Maul be capable of anything that Revan has done, of course he would not.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Beniboybling