Why does curshing fist talent and sundering assault not stack

[Barzarel]

Why on earth do the 2point talent crushing fist armor debuff not stack up with sundering assault, I mean serious most single enemy mobs can almost instantly stack up 3-5 rounds of armor debuff and if they ranged sometimes even throw grav round debuff ontop, so why on earth can't my juggernaut not have a stackable Crushing fist/sundering assault combination debuff? Just asking what makes it worth 2points if its only purpose a glorified AOE armor debuff with a very short duration while very few of our companions can actually do any AOE damage at all?

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Ok, Let me tell you a tale of Pre 2.0.

 

Before 2.0 Juggernaut's armor debuff stacked up to 5 times to get 45% Armor penetration. And Crushing Fist and Sundering Throw would grant 1 stack per. Then 2.0 Hit, and made it be 1 stack only, Crushing Fist and Sundering Throw would now only refresh the Sunder effect. Mobs though, would not be changed by this. the only difference is that it's a stacking debuff of up to 45% compared to your 1 "stack" that is already 45%. Crushing Fist acts like an AOE version of Sundering Assault, and if a target already has sundering assault's debuff, then Crushing Fist will just re-fresh the Sundering assault de-buff duration.

 

That should answer your question.

[Elyx]

yup. they're not different debuffs. same debuff, can only reapply, not stack. its just one more way of getting our (very nice) debuff up on several mobs

[Barzarel]

Ok, Let me tell you a tale of Pre 2.0.

 

Before 2.0 Juggernaut's armor debuff stacked up to 5 times to get 45% Armor penetration. And Crushing Fist and Sundering Throw would grant 1 stack per. Then 2.0 Hit, and made it be 1 stack only, Crushing Fist and Sundering Throw would now only refresh the Sunder effect. Mobs though, would not be changed by this. the only difference is that it's a stacking debuff of up to 45% compared to your 1 "stack" that is already 45%. Crushing Fist acts like an AOE version of Sundering Assault, and if a target already has sundering assault's debuff, then Crushing Fist will just re-fresh the Sundering assault de-buff duration.

 

That should answer your question.

Just Feel still like its slightly unfair, commando just to take a example have armor piercing rounds that stack armor debuffs on top of that they can put on grav rounds with a least 2 stacks if they are talented in that direction. Mobs as I mentioned before can put on several armor debuffs at a given time. Having what seems to be a low armor debuff makes eating through mobs even with a dps companion sometimes take forever, especially if its some the elite droids which have a damage reduction that resembles that of a Bulwark or titanium wall. I am not saying that Juggernaut should be stacking extremely high armor debuff just don't get why there could not be a sort of mid point.

[Elyx]

I can see where your coming from. But I think it's dangerous to try and compare direct skills from another class, since most classes are not designed around one or two skills. i.e., our overall DPS and potential are based on only one debuff of that sort, whereas the PT needs talent points in different areas (and they aren't complimentary btw), and are balanced around those being in place.

 

Plus Crushing blow is already an amazing talent. even if the debuff didn't exist. creating a separate debuff would necessitate reducing its other bonuses, which I am not OK with. I do understand your frustration with the "wasted stack" though, but the problem is they couldn't really add more to CB...they'd just end up taking something else away, so I'd rather just keep the debuff.

 

perhaps add something different to another talent? like increasing our persona damage to any target affected by our sunder by 5% in soresu form? then it's double good to make sure that sunder is on as many mobs as possible. but they can't add it to CB. already too many good things in it.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Elyx

[Marb]

Just Feel still like its slightly unfair, commando just to take a example have armor piercing rounds that stack armor debuffs on top of that they can put on grav rounds with a least 2 stacks if they are talented in that direction. Mobs as I mentioned before can put on several armor debuffs at a given time. Having what seems to be a low armor debuff makes eating through mobs even with a dps companion sometimes take forever, especially if its some the elite droids which have a damage reduction that resembles that of a Bulwark or titanium wall. I am not saying that Juggernaut should be stacking extremely high armor debuff just don't get why there could not be a sort of mid point.

 

All player applied armor debuffs, no matter which class, applies a single debuff that provides the full -45% armor debuff. It is functionally identical to how it used to be when it was 5 stacks.

 

Commandos, Mercs, Snipers all have the exact same armor debuff. I think you are confusing gravity vortices and stance armor pen with the armor debuff. They are entirely separate effects.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Marb

[verfallen]

It was mostly a QoL change.

 

The actual effect pre 2,0 (debuff not stacking) remained the same. Now however there is no ramp up, and jug tanks can simply smash/Crushing blow for the aoe, rather than also setup sunder assault.

 

You can also sunder assault/CB for aoe that ignores cced enemies, when you can't use smash.

 

Imo its much less of a pain now.

[Arlanon]

You know a QoL I'd like to see? Remove the range restriction on Force Charge.

 

Now we're talkin'!

[Elyx]

You know a QoL I'd like to see? Remove the range restriction on Force Charge.

 

Now we're talkin'!

 

And saber throw.

 

Having to use a set bonus to complete a class is silly. range should be 0-30, not 10-30. and replace the set bonus with a damage boost or something.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

All player applied armor debuffs, no matter which class, applies a single debuff that provides the full -45% armor debuff. It is functionally identical to how it used to be when it was 5 stacks.

 

Commandos, Mercs, Snipers all have the exact same armor debuff. I think you are confusing gravity vortices and stance armor pen with the armor debuff. They are entirely separate effects.

 

Actually, the Sniper Armor debuff is only 20%, I checked the tooltip, Flourish Shot/Shatter Shot is only 20% armor penetration, to balance it for it having 9 seconds of Trauma debuff (which is useless in PvE)