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Kaggath Tournament - Felonious Empire vs Ascending Empire

Beniboybling

By Beniboybling
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Selenial

Selenial

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Anyway, we are treating the criminal underworld as a political group again, and again making the bizarre assumption that Garm or Mothma or anyone would condone the murder, robbery and extortion of their citizens. There was no criminal uprising against the Empire, there was no criminal uprising against anyone. Just as many criminals were prepared to work for the Empire as they were the Rebellion. Aside from smugglers and the occasional pirate criminals are cut throat, self-centered individuals with no respect for other people. And no interest in politics, who runs the galaxy makes no difference to them. They are lawless, unpredictable individuals and will always be enemies of the state.

 

All they care about, and I cannot stress this enough, is money. No government is ever going to be soft on crime unless they are corrupt, or lack a moral compass. The AE certainly don't represent that, the FE perhaps a little more so given their ties to Aruk and the Empire's past history of having flexible morals and a do-whatever-it-takes attitude. But not significantly. So really there is no question of political preference here, but simply who is prepared to pay for their services. Who is prepared to contact and pay for the services of murders, thieves and extortionists.

 

That is the question we should be asking here, not who the non-existent political entity known as the Underworld will decide to support at their annual conference after discussing the moral and political merits of each faction.

 

I'm also not totally convinced that every Coreillian regards himself a paramilitary hero who will pick up his blaster and take the fight to the enemy, we are talking civilians here, they'll cower in their homes like the government will tell them to. If they don't they'll be slaughtered by trained killers and military specialists.

 

3rd times the charm?

 

First off, I've made it perfectly clear not every Criminal will chose the AE. The point is, same amount of pay, who are they going to pick, the rampaging guy who's killed crime bosses for no apparent reason, who chokes people who fail him and acts irrationally at the mention of a Jedi.... Or the diplomats who never managed to control the underworld, who failed pretty miserably and even endorsed using them.

 

Oh, Garm and Mothma happily use Criminals. Garm would do anything to save correllia, Mothma also hates the loss of life so much, sees the blood on her hands so badly, that she'd do anything to stop wars lasting and tearing planets apart.

 

I never said every correllian would fight, but think about it... Billions of people. Compare Correllia to America, if some Mafia declared all out war, how many americans do you think would wap out their guns and start saving their country? Hmm? A lot, I'd say.

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Canino

Canino

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Posted (edited)

Sel, please don't compare my Corellia plan to some Mafia vs America. Completely different scenarios.

 

In case you haven't noticed, America has multiple "Mafias" against us. Al Queda, the entirety of North Korea, the Taliban (not as bad anymore), and you know, the entire war on drugs. The war that pretty much says "any and all drugs are illegal, and we will arrest anyone who uses them, makes them, smuggles them, or has information about them".

 

Oh. Don't forget the Bloods and the Crips and any white supremest groups. Can't forget them.

 

Do Americans go out everyday and shoot people for being involved with any of that? No. We arrest them, IF THEY DO SOMETHING ILLEGAL. We don't just shoot them. Cause, then they are a murderer, too. And that is also against the law.

 

Oh America....

 

EDIT: Same amount of money? I think the IGBC takes the cake. Unless you plan to tax all of your planets, which will only push those who disagree to the FE. And those whom can't pay.

Edited by Canino
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Selenial

Selenial

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Sel, please don't compare my Corellia plan to some Mafia vs America. Completely different scenarios.

 

In case you haven't noticed, America has multiple "Mafias" against us. Al Queda, the entirety of North Korea, the Taliban (not as bad anymore), and you know, the entire war on drugs. The war that pretty much says "any and all drugs are illegal, and we will arrest anyone who uses them, makes them, smuggles them, or has information about them".

 

Oh. Don't forget the Bloods and the Crips and any white supremest groups. Can't forget them.

 

Do Americans go out everyday and shoot people for being involved with any of that? No. We arrest them, IF THEY DO SOMETHING ILLEGAL. We don't just shoot them. Cause, then they are a murderer, too. And that is also against the law.

 

Oh America....

 

EDIT: Same amount of money? I think the IGBC takes the cake. Unless you plan to tax all of your planets, which will only push those who disagree to the FE. And those whom can't pay.

 

Absolutely none of those have flat out invaded America to the point where all it's military has to be recalled.

 

And if America was getting bombed, attacked by people with guns and just all out Chaos, I have no doubt americans with guns would defend their homes.

 

And the IGBC can't waste all it's money, it just doesn't work like that, there'd be huge consequences. To put this in perspective for you, one Super Star Destroyer (executor) About 1 billion, 150 million credits. Criminals would need a few thousand to just sit and shoot.

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tunewalker

tunewalker

Posted
Posted (edited)

On this Corellian thing.

 

No criminal on Corellia is going to work for Vader. Period end of story. The only way Corellian criminals will work with off worlders is if it.

 

A. Did not harm Corellia in any way

B. One of their Heroes were involved in some way.

C. unrest was cause by long drawn out dispute.

 

Corellian's are all family and they act like that. The Criminals on the planet will pick on you steal and claim "territory" but the moment some off-worlder comes in and starts messing with the Corellian people, even then Criminals will get pissed at those people. Its the idea of "no one picks on my family but me."

 

The SWTOR incident is VASTLY different then now, the Republic abandoned them and the war had been going on for decades (60+ years) and the Sith still barely infiltrated them. The kind of plan Canino is talking about would take months to organize the Kaggath would be over long before that.

 

Murders are also generally not an organized crime group, most organized crime is pirates and Smuggling operations which in some ways can potentially be seen as trying to help Corellia at times.

 

 

All-in-all any idea that takes a turning any Corellian civilian (criminal or otherwise) to the side of the FE should be considered laughable as they aren't that type of people. The fact that its being taken seriously.....scares me.

Edited by tunewalker
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Aurbere

Aurbere

Posted
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Absolutely none of those have flat out invaded America to the point where all it's military has to be recalled.

 

And if America was getting bombed, attacked by people with guns and just all out Chaos, I have no doubt americans with guns would defend their homes.

 

And the IGBC can't waste all it's money, it just doesn't work like that, there'd be huge consequences. To put this in perspective for you, one Super Star Destroyer (executor) About 1 billion, 150 million credits. Criminals would need a few thousand to just sit and shoot.

 

I'm pretty sure paying criminals is bad for business anyway.

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Selenial

Selenial

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Posted
Beni said no elite fighters, I'm assuming that would include the Defender. He only said TIE fighters, bombers and interceptors.

 

Well, I think he meant Aurbere can't use any ship ever used by the Imperial Navy, like all the prototypes and Stuff. But Thrawn like Defenders, used them a lot.

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Aurbere

Aurbere

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Ahh. Not like the OCF had any special or amazing wings anyway, so I aint missing out :p

 

Well, if you had Jedi Aces you would be golden. Half a dozen of them performed rather well during the First Battle of Kamino.

 

But you don't, so that's a moot point.

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Wolfninjajedi

Wolfninjajedi

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On a rather humorous yet interesting note, during a space battle. Vader could just do...

 

This

 

Also this..

 

Yes...that is Vader in space, scaling a *********** Star Destroyer and breaking into the bridge.

 

If there is a chance, he could always do that. Not saying he would because in that comic he had to considering the bay was vented and he was sucked out, but still...just something to take note that he could do and also show that he can use The Force on starfighters that are already flying n all that.

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Aurbere

Aurbere

Posted
Posted
On a rather humorous yet interesting note, during a space battle. Vader could just do...

 

This

 

Also this..

 

Yes...that is Vader in space, scaling a *********** Star Destroyer and breaking into the bridge.

 

If there is a chance, he could always do that. Not saying he would because in that comic he had to considering the bay was vented and he was sucked out, but still...just something to take note that he could do and also show that he can use The Force on starfighters that are already flying n all that.

 

So awesome.

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Wolfninjajedi

Wolfninjajedi

Posted
Posted (edited)
If Vader started to do that, the crew of the ship would likely set to self destruct and evacuate, like Kenobi did at the Battle of Saleucami...

 

Because the crew of that ISD certainly went for the self destruct method rather then **** their pants, plus I don't think they would have time for that given once the window got breached they all went flying out(except for 1, but he was secure)...but anyway, Vader doesn't have to do it as I don't think he would. But it's something that he could.

 

Anyway...me thinks it be time to call this, unless there is more to go over?

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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tunewalker

tunewalker

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Because the crew of that ISD certainly went for the self destruct method rather then **** their pants, plus I don't think they would have time for that given once the window got breached they all went flying out(except for 1, but he was secure)...but anyway, Vader doesn't have to do it as I don't think he would. But it's something that he could.

 

Anyway...me thinks it be time to call this, unless there is more to go over?

 

I believe there is likely more to go over, honeslty (sorry wolf) I mean to me we have barely scratched the surface of military engagements. People keep getting hung up on betrayals both sides have to WIN a major engagement WITHOUT support from a large Criminal Body or Difections before any kind of Large body or Diffection is going to happen. Argue Might vs Might and we still don't have many details on how Vader is going to die, though Canino has given ways to kill Mothma (assassination though unlikely possible) and (winning the War, same could be said for Vader, but few ways have been talked about on either front other then Difection possibilities rather then the talk of the first engagement with 0, nada, Zilch, outside help or interference as the first engagement none of that will be present and the winner of the engagement will take the advantage of people coming to their Cause.

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