2.5 updated changes

[IInox]

2.5 changes on pts:

 

Maul costs 40 Force. Damage is unchanged.

Thrash: 4.84% damage increase

Lacerate: 6.15% damage increase

Voltaic Slash: 10.95% damage increase

Devour prevents Madness DoTs from being cleansed.

 

http://www.madsithassassin.com/2013/11/swtor-patch-25-assassin-dps-buffs.html

 

what do u think about?

[ishbindeinvater]

nothing about madness spec

 

changes to lambast or changes to force regeneration are totally missing

[IInox]

well on t site the player said that Madness has a boost dps equivalent of a stim. Madness has a good dps actually... but boring...

 

Btw I don't know why they reduce Force cost of maul... I'd liked to see a reduced cost at VS.

[Master-Nala]

Decent changes for Deception; Madness still need help in force generation. Strange, DoT specs are usually very easy on power.

[IInox]

Decent changes for Deception; Madness still need help in force generation. Strange, DoT specs are usually very easy on power.

 

mm well, or buff force generation or buff dmg..not both

[ConCube]

I don't get why they decreased Maul force-cost, nobody will still use it in their rotation (PvE-wise), PvP-wise its pretty insignificant ...

 

Edit: I mean without proc ..

Edited November 15, 2013 by ConCube

[IInox]

I don't get why they decreased Maul force-cost, nobody will still use it in their rotation (PvE-wise), PvP-wise its pretty insignificant ...

 

Edit: I mean without proc ..

 

+1

 

no sense

 

reduce CS!

[thejollygreenone]

+1

 

no sense

 

reduce CS!

 

disagree, i thought the VS buff is the worst possible thing to do for our class. make us spam it more, when we should be getting procs for maul and discharge to use in place of a third VS between shocks, **** IT MORE VS THATLL HELP.

 

i can't help but be a dick about this, i'm so incredibly mad about these changes i'm seriously on the verge of switching classes altogether. kitru had the right idea when he quit because of assuming half assed changes like this would occur.

Edited November 15, 2013 by thejollygreenone

[KeyboardNinja]

disagree, i thought the VS buff is the worst possible thing to do for our class. make us spam it more, when we should be getting procs for maul and discharge to use in place of a third VS between shocks, **** IT MORE VS THATLL HELP.

 

i can't help but be a dick about this, i'm so incredibly mad about these changes i'm seriously on the verge of switching classes altogether. kitru had the right idea when he quit because of assuming half assed changes like this would occur.

 

With the proc, now Maul/Shadow Strike will cost only 10. That doesn't sound like much of a change, but it might just be enough to make LS > SS worthwhile again. I need to look at the math. Increasing the damage from VS does strike me as lazy class balance, but it does have an overlooked effect: what is it that you spam when RNG goes against you? If you aren't Discharging, you're pretty much going to be using CS in that GCD. Of course, this does nothing to abate the awful reliance on crit, but that's a bigger project.

 

So, I agree with you that these changes really aren't enough and they largely miss the point, but I think there are some silver linings here. Pyro Mercs were saying the same sort of things pre 2.4 when the "nerfs" were announced, and now look where they are. Let's give it a serious try and then see how things look.

[IInox]

Mah IMHO LS on sustained rotation can be there..still too much force

 

jolly I sad that i'd like to see a reduced cost of CS cause we spam it..so we are saying the same thing.

 

and I agree that isn't enough..

 

ps: changing class doesn't have a sense just because you want to be at first place of dps meter? idk..who cares, we can do hm and inghtmare? it's enough.

Edited November 15, 2013 by IInox

[ConCube]

I'm not really informed about the PTS but could some decent geared Deception-player parse a few times and show off the differences?

[PapaRodin]

Overcharge Lightsaber giving a small heal on Charge Procs might be noteworthy, too if it aplies to every Spec and will have the greatest impact for Madness Assassins.

 

Depending on how strong that heal turns out to be, Lambaste became a little bit better.

[thejollygreenone]

With the proc, now Maul/Shadow Strike will cost only 10. That doesn't sound like much of a change, but it might just be enough to make LS > SS worthwhile again. I need to look at the math. Increasing the damage from VS does strike me as lazy class balance, but it does have an overlooked effect: what is it that you spam when RNG goes against you? If you aren't Discharging, you're pretty much going to be using CS in that GCD. Of course, this does nothing to abate the awful reliance on crit, but that's a bigger project.

 

So, I agree with you that these changes really aren't enough and they largely miss the point, but I think there are some silver linings here. Pyro Mercs were saying the same sort of things pre 2.4 when the "nerfs" were announced, and now look where they are. Let's give it a serious try and then see how things look.

 

way to the optimist, that point about pyro mercs gives me a slight shred of hope. however, your point with what you spam when RNG goes against you, that's the exact problem that i see. how monumentally often that RNG shows up to ruin dps sessions.

 

i guess my idealist brain tells me that a buff to CS is just enabling that problem to continue, only less horrible. i would like to think there would be a way to do that which doesn't make my rotation even more CS-spam than it already is. having to spam CS when rng is unfavorable tends to hurt us because of low damage and force costs piling up after using 3 in a row frequently. this problem will generally still exist after these changes methinks.

 

beyond that, i didn't even think about your point about it possibly making LS>SS combo more attractive, i just cant imagine such a small force decrease to make it worth it, but who knows. i'll reserve judgement till the math is done ^.^

 

i still hold my position that it SEEMS like an insignificant class balance. but i owe it to quite a few to give it some testing time before making a hasty decision to reroll classes ;P

[ZentheSecond]

Is the PTS open for all or is it in a closed testing phase still with inv only settings? I know it was for the space PvP, guildie of mine got in and was playing it.

 

I would love to get in there and see somethings firsthand, but last time I checked the PTS was down.

[ShadowMudkip]

While on the topic of 2.5, I have heard a lot of QQ about how assassins in tank gear are going to be OP. Now, this might be the case, but lets look at what is changing.

1. Assassin tanks are getting higher DR values, along with a change to HD

2. HD will no longer heal us, and I believe we lose the 75% damage increase to Force Lightning.

 

So we will be tougher to kill, but what made us OP in 1.2 will be gone. But please, hold off with the QQ storm till these things go live.

[THoK-Zeus]

While on the topic of 2.5, I have heard a lot of QQ about how assassins in tank gear are going to be OP. Now, this might be the case, but lets look at what is changing.

1. Assassin tanks are getting higher DR values, along with a change to HD

2. HD will no longer heal us, and I believe we lose the 75% damage increase to Force Lightning.

 

So we will be tougher to kill, but what made us OP in 1.2 will be gone. But please, hold off with the QQ storm till these things go live.

 

So far, patch notes indicate that we are not losing the 75% damage increase from Force Lightning

Edited November 16, 2013 by THoK-Zeus

[KeyboardNinja]

So far, patch notes indicate that we are not losing the 75% damage increase from Force Lightning

 

I would need to double check, but I'm pretty sure dropping the 75% boost on FL would alone be sufficient to make assassins unviably behind the other tanks in terms of both threat and DPS. So, good thing that isn't happening. :-)

[Maudril]

They sorta missed the point on deception. Force management and ****** proc chances still plague the class

 

However, the reduction of cost to Maul makes some sense. It shows they tried to tackle the force management issues in some way across all 3 specs (Insignificant, but still its better than buffing its damage.) I really don't see why they are dead-set on doing something about Maul. Its only lacking in one spec (Madness), which granted this change benefits Madness more than the other two. Tanks dont give a F about this change because of Conspirators Cloak and their awesome force regen rate, Deception because of Duplicity (rarely played deception, so my terms may be off), but Madness still needs more help than both of these specs combined, especially now.

[IInox]

They sorta missed the point on deception. Force management and ****** proc chances still plague the class

 

However, the reduction of cost to Maul makes some sense. It shows they tried to tackle the force management issues in some way across all 3 specs (Insignificant, but still its better than buffing its damage.) I really don't see why they are dead-set on doing something about Maul. Its only lacking in one spec (Madness), which granted this change benefits Madness more than the other two. Tanks dont give a F about this change because of Conspirators Cloak and their awesome force regen rate, Deception because of Duplicity (rarely played deception, so my terms may be off), but Madness still needs more help than both of these specs combined, especially now.

 

absolutely not. Madness doesn't need any help about buff. just a review case it is boring.

 

Madness dps is good enough!

[DarrelK]

I don't get why they decreased Maul force-cost, nobody will still use it in their rotation (PvE-wise), PvP-wise its pretty insignificant ...

 

Edit: I mean without proc ..

 

You realize that proc takes 75% from cost? So lowered cost means lower cost with proc, too.

[Maudril]

absolutely not. Madness doesn't need any help about buff. just a review case it is boring.

 

Madness dps is good enough!

 

Good enough, but overshadowed. All it is is "meh" DPS and boring as hell doing so.

It may be good enough, but it is outclassed by its sorc bretheren. Its just a sorc wannabe.

 

I've already made a post elsewhere about how I believe Madness assassins should be self-healing debuffers. Allow them to debuff enemy defenses along with their DOT's, and give them selfheals that are worth something (around the potency of the old tank selfheals I would think would be a good place to start) so that way they have some good survivability provided they dont say catch the eye of a carnage marauder or something that will just ruin anyone without damage mitigation's day. (Mitigation + selfheals together are hard to balance, alone they are much easier)

 

As far as melee goes, I think they should have greatly reduced cost to their melees, but make them weaker than the other two specs, and give them some melees in their rotation other than Thrash and Assassinate(once target is below 30%) Maybe attach some DOTs/debuffs to a cost-reduced Lacerate

 

But that is just speculation. I tried Madness for two days and hate the current implementation with a passion. Such potential for a cool spec, wasted on some 10m range wannabe sorcerer.

[IInox]

Good enough, but overshadowed. All it is is "meh" DPS and boring as hell doing so.

It may be good enough, but it is outclassed by its sorc bretheren. Its just a sorc wannabe.

 

I've already made a post elsewhere about how I believe Madness assassins should be self-healing debuffers. Allow them to debuff enemy defenses along with their DOT's, and give them selfheals that are worth something (around the potency of the old tank selfheals I would think would be a good place to start) so that way they have some good survivability provided they dont say catch the eye of a carnage marauder or something that will just ruin anyone without damage mitigation's day. (Mitigation + selfheals together are hard to balance, alone they are much easier)

 

As far as melee goes, I think they should have greatly reduced cost to their melees, but make them weaker than the other two specs, and give them some melees in their rotation other than Thrash and Assassinate(once target is below 30%) Maybe attach some DOTs/debuffs to a cost-reduced Lacerate

 

But that is just speculation. I tried Madness for two days and hate the current implementation with a passion. Such potential for a cool spec, wasted on some 10m range wannabe sorcerer.

 

yeah that what I meant, good enough dps but really boring...the pre 2.0 madness was really fun..

[HoboWithAStick]

I would still really like to see them making Assassins competitive with marauders or lethality ops. Makes me sad in how they deal with this class.

[ShadowMudkip]

One thing I don't really understand is why Darkness has Conspirators Cloak, that should be moved to the madness tree, its not like darkness suffers from a dps perspective.

[HoboWithAStick]

Its not really a dps boost for Sin tanks just switches up the rotation and makes it interesting. If you remember when 2.0 came out Mr.Wonderful said that they "streamlined" Madness and made it less complicated. Not that it was a hard rotation before, they just took all the interesting things out of it and maul happen to be one of those things.