Scoundrel DPS competitive for high end PVE raids?

[Galtin]

My scoundrel has been a scrapper since Day 1 and I enjoy the scrapper style of gameplay. I abhor healing in raids because it gives me a headache so if I want to do PVE raids, its either scrapper or dirty fighting. I know neither top the DPS charts compared to other classes but is their DPS competitive enough that they can pull their weight and not be a drag on the raid team?

[Thorriin]

My scoundrel has been a scrapper since Day 1 and I enjoy the scrapper style of gameplay. I abhor healing in raids because it gives me a headache so if I want to do PVE raids, its either scrapper or dirty fighting. I know neither top the DPS charts compared to other classes but is their DPS competitive enough that they can pull their weight and not be a drag on the raid team?

 

Dirty Fighting? Yes.

 

Scrapper? No.

[banehammer]

Yeh DF pulls impressive numbers. Up there with the best. I struggle with the playstyle too, and much prefer scrapper.

 

However, opposite to you I enjoy sawbones in large group situations. Rolling hots on everyone

[Falver]

Dirty Fighting is competitive in virtually every fight. Scrapper is... for some fights. Both have rather high skill ceiling though, and you will need to play rather well to match up to your sentinel and vanguard rivals. But yes, a scoundrel DPS is very viable in end game raiding.

[RougeBeaver]

Scrapper is slightly better for short fights like between-boss trash, but generally not worth it.

 

DF pulls out vastly superior sustained numbers and doesn't depend on finnicky stealth and positioning requirements at all times. It probably still won't beat Gunnery Commandos, Sages or Sentinels but it's decent. Assuming your group doesn't force you to go heals.

 

Word of advice on that subject - do NOT gear out a heal set or mention you're willing to go heals because that's literally all your group will make you do. Unless you're perfectly fine being a fulltime healer, go for it.

[spartancam]

As the previous post says, dont let them know that you can heal untill you've proven yourself as a valuable dps.

My main is a Lethality (DF) Operative, and at this point my raid lead wont let me heal because he dosnt want to give up the dps. I personally use one set of gear for dps and healing, running with the 2 piece pve dps, and 2 piece pve healing set, and just use the accuracy whenever I happen to swap to healing. The accuracy vs alacrity hasnt made much difference, and I personally almost never use orbital unless theres a group of ads, which I find the 2pc sniper bonus to be worthless because by the time the 4th tick comes down the ads are almost always dead anyhow, plus I like having the extra mainstat and hp from the pve armorings vs the pvp ones, which rumor has it they will eventually change anyhow, and finally i find that trying to use os on cooldown messes with energy and the fluidity of the rotation too much,

 

TLDR; Dont tell them you can heal till they know your a good dps, eventaully use the 2+2 dps/healing bonus so you can use 1 set of gear for when you might need to heal, and finally orbital strike is overated for lethality/df ops/scoundrels, its usefull but only in certain situations.

[KeyboardNinja]

and finally orbital strike is overated for lethality/df ops/scoundrels, its usefull but only in certain situations.

 

I know we've had this argument before, but I still disagree on this. I've parsed both with and without orbital in rotation. Removing it is a very noticeable DPS loss. The math supports this too. With the sniper pvp 2pc, there's simply nothing in your rotation that hits as hard for the energy and cast time.

 

It's definitely somewhat difficult to use it "on cooldown". Generally, it comes down to RNG. You need to get the double Cull proc when Weakening Blast has less than 3 seconds on its CD and your DoTs have more than 7 seconds on their duration, and ideally also when your energy is in the low-mid 80s. When that coincides with the CD on orbital, you have a godlike parse on your hands, but it rarely happens that way. Usually, I have to delay orbital by about 15-20 seconds (at least).

 

As Philosoraptor proves, it's certainly possible to get very very good DPS without using Orbital in rotation. The majority of the skill elements of the spec have nothing to do with Orbital, and frankly it does feel a lot nicer not to use it rotationally (3 seconds of casting really sucks), but not using it at all is just leaving DPS on the table.

[spartancam]

Yes, keboardninja and I have talked about this in the past lol, and I do agree, in a purly theoretical perfect scenario the orbital strike definatly helps, I didnt say not to use it, but I dont use it on single target fights. Fights with lots of ads absolutly use it, Titan 6 after each jump is a good example, theres enough time during the hiding phase that you can recoup energy. The raid group I play with puts out lots of damage, and lots of aoe damage, so I find the 4th tick ends up being wasted most of the time. Its 2 different schools of though with no real right answer, most operatives use the 2pc sniper bonus and use orbital lots. I personally dont, find what works best for you, if it works stick with it.

 

The other major reason I dont have the 2pc sniper set bonus is because its a pvp bonus, and I hate pvp, Ill never get around to getting the bonus, which makes orbital that much less important to me.

[JamieKirby]

Oh well, scrapper as a scoundrel is so much fun, so obviously bioware has made it meh to compensate with its overwhelming coolness.

 

Also, if one advanced class is better then the other, then something has to be done to balance it...ie. Buffing the weaker one.....because the AC selection should be based on how much fun you find it, not on which tree is most viable.

Edited November 27, 2013 by JamieKirby