Hacker / Cheater

[Michalrajtar]

Found today hacker Got video as proof but dont know where to link it here or in CS subforum to get it acknowledged by Devs? Basically guy have about 5 identical chars following him and every char did same ability as him in same timing as him and their companions used same skill in same splitsecond Edited November 8, 2013 by Michalrajtar

[AlrikFassbauer]

Send in a ticket to the customer service, including a link to your video.

I think this is called "multiboxing", but I have never seen such a thing.

[Joesixxpack]

IIRC from past threads it isn't considered cheating, in PVE anyway. Multi-boxing isn't hacking FYI. Edited November 8, 2013 by Joesixxpack

[Michalrajtar]

Saw it first time eiher. First thought - some guild mates made identical character but found out hacker case when they started casting everything in same second no delay.

 

If it is not considered cheating then what it is?

Edited November 8, 2013 by Michalrajtar

[Tatile]

Send in a ticket to the customer service, including a link to your video.

I think this is called "multiboxing", but I have never seen such a thing.

 

Considering that Bioware don't allow macros, that sort of multi-boxing would be of their interest because, IIRC, the type of behaviour OP is describing, while it does mean keystrokes, it also means an artificial setup to either have one keystroke go to five computers, or multiple instances of the game running on one PC.

 

But, of course, I do not multibox professionally, so I'm sure someone is going to come in and tell me how wrong I am, and how all it really needs are several straws, some tape, and some string.

[Michalrajtar]

Ticket sent with video. Hope they do something with it. Thanks!

[Joesixxpack]

Ah, here's the note on it... My earlier recollection was incorrect, sort of.

 

Personally I didn't realize /follow had been removed from WoW. It’s an interesting move on Blizzard’s part and (now that I ask internally) we are already looking at any possible negative aspects that might occur if multi-boxing within SWTOR was to become a ‘thing’. I'll be clear that certain ways of technically implementing multi-boxing are very much against the Terms of Service, so I would suggest erring on the side of caution and not depend on existing functionality staying static...

Edited November 8, 2013 by Joesixxpack

[JPryde]

If it is not considered cheating then what it is?

It is considered cheating, but it got absolutely nothing to do with hacking (neither the crew skill, not the computer science term).

 

For multiboxing, you need a number of accounts who are all running in their own legal client either all on the same machine or on virtual machines and you need to splice your keyboard inputs to reach each client as if that client were the one with the focus. You do not need to change anything on the client and not even know anything about the servers, so this cannot possibly be called a hacking issue.

 

it is cheating however.

[RixoFutu]

That isn't so rare. Well, i never saw 5 guys, but when leveling i often encountered char just followed by another char, which just followed and doing nothing more. I think that is the same case - multiboxing.

[AlexDougherty]

That isn't so rare. Well, i never saw 5 guys, but when leveling i often encountered char just followed by another char, which just followed and doing nothing more. I think that is the same case - multiboxing.

 

I think it's more about the simultaneousness than about two or five people hanging around, although I'm kind of curious about what the alleged would have done if some of them had been sent to another arena.

[ImpactHound]

I find it odd that it would by 5 guys and not 4 considering how the game is designed with grouping.

[Kurzaa]

I am not sure how this would be considered hacking or against the ToS. Obviously Blizzard wouldn't care because they are getting 5x times the subs. Can't really assume that with Bioware since SWTOR is f2p.

 

But I am pretty sure this is primarily an option for leveling. Specifically running missions. In PvP the player should get destoryed by even me...and I suck...just getting stunned or being scattered by a knock back would technically mess with most setups.

[Malastare]

I am not sure how this would be considered hacking or against the ToS. Obviously Blizzard wouldn't care because they are getting 5x times the subs. Can't really assume that with Bioware since SWTOR is f2p.

 

It's an issue because of the coordination software. From what I remember, you're allowed to multi-box, but you're not allowed to employ any software to automatically control the game. So, multi-boxing by using Follow is "legal". Multi-boxing by using software which automatically coordinates attacks is not.

 

In PvP the player should get destoryed by even me...and I suck...just getting stunned or being scattered by a knock back would technically mess with most setups.

 

Well, having 5 coordinated players attacking you in PvP would probably kill you fairly quickly. Of course, that would be five people on the team attacking just one opponent, leaving the a very angry 3 team members left to deal with the other 7 opponent. You might be able to take down a single target, but your team would be hopeless. And that's assuming that you've got some really advanced botting controls that know how to re-bunch. Without that, its just a carnival of fail, as botted characters get bumped off course and run through acid, walk off bridges, run into corners, and other forms of idiocy that manage to be slightly more embarassing than even the newest PvP players.

[GalacticKegger]

Ah, here's the note on it... My earlier recollection was incorrect, sort of.

Personally I didn't realize /follow had been removed from WoW. It’s an interesting move on Blizzard’s part and (now that I ask internally) we are already looking at any possible negative aspects that might occur if multi-boxing within SWTOR was to become a ‘thing’. I'll be clear that certain ways of technically implementing multi-boxing are very much against the Terms of Service, so I would suggest erring on the side of caution and not depend on existing functionality staying static...

Removing /follow would infuriate group players who alternate taking periodic breaks to bio or grab another beverage while one leads on to the next objective. /follow didn't work for the first month of release which became a serious point of contention in the game, not just in the forums. Taking it out of the game would be a very, VERY bad QoL choice imho.

 

What the OP saw where characters were mimicking the lead character's actions was not a product of /follow.

Edited November 8, 2013 by GalacticKegger

[Erasimus]

Ah, here's the note on it... My earlier recollection was incorrect, sort of.

Unless the quote was taken out of context, /follow has not been removed from WoW, only from Battlegrounds and the rationale was not to stop multi-boxing, but rather to eliminate some of the more simplistic BoTs.

 

WoW doesn't "officially" support Multi-Boxing, but that is mostly so they don't have to take it into consideration when making game changes.

 

Most MMOs tacitly permit multi-boxing. I mean, why not, it means more money in their pockets and, especially PvE, really doesn't have any negative impact. Personally I feel that multi-boxers are at a distinct disadvantage versus any organized group whether it is PvE or PvP, but that is a different discussion.

[Andryah]

It's an issue because of the coordination software. From what I remember, you're allowed to multi-box, but you're not allowed to employ any software to automatically control the game. So, multi-boxing by using Follow is "legal". Multi-boxing by using software which automatically coordinates attacks is not.

 

Thing is, this is a gray area. Why? Because you don't actually need software to do this. It can be done by simply connecting the output of one keyboard/mouse to multiple computers and mapping the client keymaps on each SWTOR client as required to achieve the goal. So, while it does not appear to violate MMO ToS, Bioware is of course within Biowares rights to publish a finding and then enforce it.

 

Generally, in PvP this is more likely to be seen as exploitive behavior as it creates focus fire play under one controlling device which violates the spirit of one person one character and team coordination.

 

But none of what is described here is in any way hacking. It's been done for years in MMOs, and for Bioware.. they have to consider that they have allowed this in DAoC forever.. and they own that MMO now. Personally, I don't see the point.. but... there have always been MMO players that are into this sort of thing.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Andryah

[Joesixxpack]

Removing /follow would infuriate group players who alternate taking periodic breaks to bio or grab another beverage while one leads on to the next objective. /follow didn't work for the first month of release which became a serious point of contention in the game, not just in the forums. Taking it out of the game would be a very, VERY bad QoL choice imho.

 

What the OP saw where characters were mimicking the lead character's actions was not a product of /follow.

 

Mmhmm, that was annoying trying to level with buddies. Context-wise WoW's /follow decision inspired that multi-boxer thread so the two are sort of blended in BW Phillip's quote; our /follow wasn't really under discussion. I haven't seen any indications then or now of our /follow edging towards the block.

[TheLexinator]

Found today hacker Got video as proof but dont know where to link it here or in CS subforum to get it acknowledged by Devs? Basically guy have about 5 identical chars following him and every char did same ability as him in same timing as him and their companions used same skill in same splitsecond

 

Pretty common actually. I see it all the time. I thought multiboxing was legal in TOR. It's certainly not discouraged.

[Joesixxpack]

Unless the quote was taken out of context, /follow has not been removed from WoW, only from Battlegrounds and the rationale was not to stop multi-boxing, but rather to eliminate some of the more simplistic BoTs.

 

WoW doesn't "officially" support Multi-Boxing, but that is mostly so they don't have to take it into consideration when making game changes.

 

Most MMOs tacitly permit multi-boxing. I mean, why not, it means more money in their pockets and, especially PvE, really doesn't have any negative impact. Personally I feel that multi-boxers are at a distinct disadvantage versus any organized group whether it is PvE or PvP, but that is a different discussion.

 

I know, and posted Phillip BWs quote since it's the only thing yellow text I've seen opining on multi-boxing in TOR. He doesn't give a flat yes or not but what isn't permissible is clear enough from reading the TOS.

[branmakmuffin]

Ticket sent with video. Hope they do something with it. Thanks!

You hope they do something? What if it's not "cheating" or "hacking?" I guess I can answer my own question with "Then that 'something' should be 'nothing'."

[Andryah]

I know, and posted Phillip BWs quote since it's the only thing yellow text I've seen opining on multi-boxing in TOR. He doesn't give a flat yes or not but what isn't permissible is clear enough from reading the TOS.

 

Yeah. Honestly, I don't expect them to ever come right out and say multi-boxing is fine with them. They might however say it's not actionable, or only actionable under x, y, z, circumstances.

 

What's the difference? Saying it's fine with them implies they will do things to support it (right or wrong, that will be the perception from players). Whereas saying they do not consider it an exploit or cheat just means they will ignore it completely. Phillip is pretty good actually at walking the fine line between the nuances of things like this. [Like back when he stated that Android Emulators on your PC for a security key was not supported and that they encouraged people to avoid them because they defeat the intended level of security of your account on your PC. He did not flat out tell you not to do and warn you that they would punish you for it, just that they did not want you to do it.]

Edited November 8, 2013 by Andryah

[dscount]

Yea.. Saw they same thing the other day.

 

Sadly they even all had the same outfits / class. At least be some what LESS OBVIOUS... jeez

 

Tried to screen shot, but that "not working bug" again happened.. So didn't waste my time reporting.

[branmakmuffin]

Like back when he stated that Android Emulators on your PC for a security key was not supported and that they encouraged people to avoid them because they defeat the intended level of security of your account on your PC. He did not flat out tell you not to do and warn you that they would punish you for it, just that they did not want you to do it.

In that instance, there's no way to tell if someone is using such a emulator. All they see on their end is 8 numerals entered (unless the software is so sophisticated that it can tell the difference between valid sequences generated by an Android vs. a physical key and then recognize "Hey, this person entered an Android key but doesn't have an Android phone registered with us").

[Andryah]

In that instance, there's no way to tell if someone is using such a emulator. All they see on their end is 8 numerals entered (unless the software is so sophisticated that it can tell the difference between valid sequences generated by an Android vs. a physical key and then recognize "Hey, this person entered an Android key but doesn't have an Android phone registered with us").

 

I agree with you. But my point remains valid as to his communications style.

[branmakmuffin]

I agree with you. But my point remains valid as to his communications style.

I was illustrating the difference between the two behaviors. One of them, they can see in action. The other, all they can do is say "We don't support it" because they can't do anything to stop people from doing it because there's no way on their end to tell that people are doing it.