To all the people claiming the class is underpowered.

[Jederix]

A competitive, well geared, and skilled sniper or gunslinger will make any Sentinel or Marauder cry for their mother. Denial is a strong emotion, it can cloud the mind as well as any senses.

 

I'm actually giddy about the prospect of Bioware adding arena's because once the pvp elites reach 50 will see who really does the most damage. My ten bucks is on Sniper and Gunslinger, and those ACs get to do it at 35 meters or more, and have more utility and tools to work with.

 

Is the Warrior or Knight unplayable? No. Is the Warrior and Knight underpowered? Yes. Underpowered isn't a term that suddenly denotes a lack of damage, and the fact the term is correlated to damage is sad. Though I do enjoy seeing this placebo effect going on because apparently the bolster effect equalizes everything.

 

A level 50 in pvp gear fighting a pug of random levels, and very few 50's is not balance at all. 50's need there own brackets, and then and only then will the player base be able to see what is seriously overpowered, underpowered, and simply broke.

 

A screen shot denoting a Warrior did top damage tells me next to nothing. I see an ego trip, and a lack of any proof other then a big number. Next time I highly suggest you back up your claims with a video OP of you fighting a full team of 50's in pvp gear.

 

Arena? What a joke. They can stay away from that unbalanced garbage and the game will be much better off. May just keep a few of the self-proclaimed "PvP Pros" out of the game as well. Win/Win.

[CorruptedKiller]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#1000cZhMbZGbRrzbRdGR.1

What I use atm.

 

Thanks mate

[derich]

Hi i am a lvl 26 Maurader Carnage i cant reach 250k usualy 190-230kis it cuz im bad or is it because im still 26? i dont usualy go into groups and smash because i like to surprise people when i attack Edited December 23, 2011 by derich

[jgarrettut]

Kricys, Did you level as rage? If so...can you give an idea of priorities/rotation and what I can expect leveling rage?

 

Thanks!

[indelible]

Frankly I felt this way about the Warrior in WoW (yes, yes, I know, compare and despair lol), but I don't feel this way about the warrior in SWTOR. Maybe because I'm used to it? I don't know. But I feel more than adequate for my level, and I'm at level 32 right now.

 

I don't agree. I'm not a bad player, but I'm certainly not the best. Right now - in moderate gear and with a firm understanding of what role I'm supposed to be fulfilling - I'm just not feeling it.

 

Case in point: I was talking to a friend on our guild TS about the Marauder, airing my woes and generally getting on a bit of a rant. My friend said that whenever he sees a Marauder, regardless of level, he toys with them. I can see what he's saying and I wholeheartedly agree. I feel like a very elaborate fly, buzzing in and around people but ultimately being swatted in a timely fashion. I can kill, I can drop decent damage etc fine, but I just feel so very impotent and so very underwhelming.

 

I'm not too sure what is wrong with the class right now. I don't want to jump on the "damage is too low" bandwagon because I'm not sure it is. I certainly think our survivability is far too reliant on active effects, that certain effects (such as Clock of Pain) should be switched over to proc based abilities. At base - without those effects - we're nothing. There's certainly a CC problem as well. Whilst some people here rant and rave about how it's easy for us to close the gap, it really isn't. We aren't competing with other classes on a level playing field when it comes to CC.

 

Personally I think the problem could be solved in one of two ways:

 

- Buff our survivability up, and move certain active effects over to proc mechanics (scaling them as appropriate). Give us more time to focus on our rotation ( or "earn rage, spend rage" as it's called). The reason I say this is two fold: firstly I signed on to play a warrior DPS archetype. Traditionally that means moderate damage, high survivability. That's not where we're at now. We're currently situational in both regards. MAYBE high damage, MAYBE high survivability given the right CDs and the right active effects. Outside of that 12 seconds window? All bets are off (at 30; entirely willing to admit things may change by 50). Secondly I think that the "easy to learn, hard to master" is getting lost in a barrage of "easy to learn, far too many keys to press" mechanics. I'm not usually one for passives as I feel they remove choice from the player, but on this class some reduction in key-time is required.

 

- Give us more CC. Make us more visceral in close quarters. We're a "get in and get it done" class, but we can't get it done if we can't close the gap on targets. Ranged classes as it stands are ultimately far superior to us, and Assassins seem to have enough CC to close down their targets without much trouble. Our CC is there (and I'm not arguing it isn't) it's just impotent.

 

Really I'm feeling slightly conned. I FEEL like a Rogue. I was under the impression that that archetype was filled by the Assassin. I FEEL like I should be playing like a Rogue, but I don't have any of the utility that you'd expect on a Rogue class. And I don't want to be playing a Rogue.

 

Whatever. Maybe I'm wrong and totally off mark; I'm not looking for patronising 50s to come along and tell me how wrong I am. As someone has already pointed out observations made at 50 right now are totally meaningless and boil down to idle boasting. Grats, you got highest DPS. Now go away and work on the metrics until you have something concrete to show me that contradicts my problems with the class.

[CrazyAl]

Hi i am a lvl 26 Maurader Carnage i cant reach 250k usualy 190-230kis it cuz im bad or is it because im still 26? i dont usualy go into groups and smash because i like to surprise people when i attack

 

It's because you are still level 26

 

You don't have most of your higher talents, and are still missing many good abilities

 

If your doing over 200k at level 26 you are doing quite well

[Majinr]

I don't agree. I'm not a bad player, but I'm certainly not the best. Right now - in moderate gear and with a firm understanding of what role I'm supposed to be fulfilling - I'm just not feeling it.

 

Case in point: I was talking to a friend on our guild TS about the Marauder, airing my woes and generally getting on a bit of a rant. My friend said that whenever he sees a Marauder, regardless of level, he toys with them. I can see what he's saying and I wholeheartedly agree. I feel like a very elaborate fly, buzzing in and around people but ultimately being swatted in a timely fashion. I can kill, I can drop decent damage etc fine, but I just feel so very impotent and so very underwhelming.

 

I'm not too sure what is wrong with the class right now. I don't want to jump on the "damage is too low" bandwagon because I'm not sure it is. I certainly think our survivability is far too reliant on active effects, that certain effects (such as Clock of Pain) should be switched over to proc based abilities. At base - without those effects - we're nothing. There's certainly a CC problem as well. Whilst some people here rant and rave about how it's easy for us to close the gap, it really isn't. We aren't competing with other classes on a level playing field when it comes to CC.

 

Personally I think the problem could be solved in one of two ways:

 

- Buff our survivability up, and move certain active effects over to proc mechanics (scaling them as appropriate). Give us more time to focus on our rotation ( or "earn rage, spend rage" as it's called). The reason I say this is two fold: firstly I signed on to play a warrior DPS archetype. Traditionally that means moderate damage, high survivability. That's not where we're at now. We're currently situational in both regards. MAYBE high damage, MAYBE high survivability given the right CDs and the right active effects. Outside of that 12 seconds window? All bets are off (at 30; entirely willing to admit things may change by 50). Secondly I think that the "easy to learn, hard to master" is getting lost in a barrage of "easy to learn, far too many keys to press" mechanics. I'm not usually one for passives as I feel they remove choice from the player, but on this class some reduction in key-time is required.

 

- Give us more CC. Make us more visceral in close quarters. We're a "get in and get it done" class, but we can't get it done if we can't close the gap on targets. Ranged classes as it stands are ultimately far superior to us, and Assassins seem to have enough CC to close down their targets without much trouble. Our CC is there (and I'm not arguing it isn't) it's just impotent.

 

Really I'm feeling slightly conned. I FEEL like a Rogue. I was under the impression that that archetype was filled by the Assassin. I FEEL like I should be playing like a Rogue, but I don't have any of the utility that you'd expect on a Rogue class. And I don't want to be playing a Rogue.

 

Whatever. Maybe I'm wrong and totally off mark; I'm not looking for patronising 50s to come along and tell me how wrong I am. As someone has already pointed out observations made at 50 right now are totally meaningless and boil down to idle boasting. Grats, you got highest DPS. Now go away and work on the metrics until you have something concrete to show me that contradicts my problems with the class.

 

 

well if you want survivabilty go Anni, caus in any 1 on 1 situation a Anni specced mara will not die, due to the self heals and "elemental" damage(btw ignores all armor) so its is th ebest spec, to go around and fight by urself against 2 people. You can pull it off if your really clever with no cd's up too (50 % of the time i come out on top in these situations, but really depends on a lot of factors)

 

I think compared to all other trees Anni is what you want for surviv - We are pretty much unkillable in 1 on 1 situations - HOWEVER we are not burstty, if you want huge burst go for rage as it is much better in dat department - BUT you will die a lot if you dont have support

 

That is the difference between the two trees imo - a Anni specd mara will take on any class 1 on 1, whereas a rage (carnage needs a buff IMO, it lacks compard to these 2 trees) has lots of burst, you can take your target out quickly, at the same time you'll be dead quick aswell if your not careful

 

Playstyle that's all. I prefer Anni, and top dps all the time and kills, almost never loose a 1 on 1 or even 2 on 1, but again if you have a friend running with you, then Rage would be a good choice caus of the quick burst

 

Also OP mentions Annihialte sucks in pvp , well I havnt tried it, but the beauty of Anni spec is, it does not rely on that one single move, its 2 main skills are rupture and deadly saber - which tick for way more than Annihilate would do in a single swing, so its more of a skill you use on top of the crazy dot ticks dats all

Edited December 23, 2011 by Majinr

[revial]

I'm not looking for patronising 50s to come along and tell me how wrong I am. As someone has already pointed out observations made at 50 right now are totally meaningless and boil down to idle boasting. Grats, you got highest DPS. Now go away and work on the metrics until you have something concrete to show me that contradicts my problems with the class.

 

I may be level 41 now, but here's a screenshot from when I was level 12:

 

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/f76v58oumLTaP1A2KQ_P-6nNE4TDTmFyVv1pzPyNVM0?feat=directlink

 

Take note of who outdamaged me.

 

There's a huge misconception on being a lowbie in a warzone. Yes, bolster can't make up for level 50 pvp gear, or level 40 pvp gear (on a level 40-43ish person), but otherwise, lowbies who are bolstered almost always have better stats than higher level players, which helps to mitigate he lesser diversity in skills. If you're unable to contribute well as a lowbie, well, that's entirely on you and not the class or the bracket system or whatever other excuse you want to think up of.

 

Some people are just bad at melee dps. Don't fret. There's a lot of ranged classes with simple mechanics for those who just can't play mdps in pvp well. Unless you're running with a pocket healer/pre-made all the time, then MDPS always has the highest skill cap to succeed at. That's just the natural flow of events stemming from the way MMOs work.

 

On to the spec topic. I actually run Carnage. I value mobility a lot, and Carnage is a lot more than Force Scream every 12 seconds. 100% Armor Penetration into a rooted Ravage does 40-60% of someone's HP, depending on crits or not. Removal of roots/snares on Camo is huge as well. Deadly Throw's root effect is another big ability. 15% passive runspeed boost in combat is more mobility.

 

When Ataru Form decides to proc-randomly-constantly, it can add quite the burst as well after a Massacre.

 

99% damage reduction on a short cooldown to be used when you're at like 200 health has allowed me to defy some pretty tall odds and matchups in isolated warzone maps.

 

Force Camoing into a Predation to nab health packs, etc.

 

Really, though, having played all three specs, they're all perfectly viable. They all pump out a lot of damage in the hands of a competent player, though it's important to point out that dealing damage isn't the only point of a warzone map.

 

The 'Objectives' scoring column on the chart has some issues (no points for scoring in Huttball, etc), but overall, I consider it a good game if I'm at the top or near the top of both Damage and Objectives. I'm an objectives first player, and if that means I sit at a door all alone in Voidstar bored out of my mind, then so be it. That said, even then, the only times I'm not at the top of both columns are:

 

1) Civil War, as I play the mobile quick reaction force, and you simply don't accumulate the ton of Objective points you gain by standing at one node all game.

 

2) I join midway in the battle.

 

Oh, once or twice a level I just let loose and run around killing things to release some stress. I try to only do that if our team has people I recognize as being competent enough for me to trust someone else will sit at a door in Voidstar all alone all game.

 

I'm hardly alone. I've seen numerous other Marauders/Sentinels who seem to know what they are doing. Yes, I've seen plenty who don't, but that just means those players (and you), have room for improvement, and learning how to play your chosen class well should be seen as a welcome challenge. What's the fun of playing at the same level from beginning to the end of your SWTOR career years down the road? I know I have plenty of room for improvement as well, which makes our current performance exciting, since it just means it's going to get a lot better.

 

It's my firm opinion that our skill cap is far higher than Sorc/Sages, for instance, so while I'm competing with good ones now, I'm suspecting I-and other Marauders/Sentinels-will surpass them quite a bit as time goes on and we all become more comfortable with our classes.

Edited December 23, 2011 by revial

[indelible]

I may be level 41 now, but here's a screenshot from when I was level 12:

 

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/f76v58oumLTaP1A2KQ_P-6nNE4TDTmFyVv1pzPyNVM0?feat=directlink

 

Take note of who outdamaged me.

 

Some people are just bad at melee dps. Don't fret. There's a lot of ranged classes with simple mechanics for those who just can't play mdps in pvp well.

 

What is it with this obsession with damage? As I quite clearly stated I AM NOT JUMPING ON THE "WE DON'T DO ENOUGH DAMAGE" BANDWAGON. I don't think it's true. We do plenty of damage.

 

I said that in the post you quoted, which you clearly ignored so you could get on your high horse.

 

PS. Your screenshot, yet again, means nothing. It is not a controlled or balanced assessment of the situation, and it does not reflect any facts or metrics that can be properly judged. As a furtherance I have played melee dps in several MMOs and never had the problems I feel I'm having on the Marauder. I'm not trying to overstate them either; they're not as bad as some people are making out (quite vocally). There is however something quite questionable about the class.

Edited December 23, 2011 by indelible

[revial]

What is it with this obsession with damage? As I quite clearly stated I AM NOT JUMPING ON THE "WE DON'T DO ENOUGH DAMAGE" BANDWAGON. I don't think it's true. We do plenty of damage.

 

I said that in the post you quoted, which you clearly ignored so you could get on your high horse.

 

PS. Your screenshot, yet again, means nothing. It is not a controlled or balanced assessment of the situation, and it does not reflect any facts or metrics that can be properly judged. As a furtherance I have played melee dps in several MMOs and never had the problems I feel I'm having on the Marauder. I'm not trying to overstate them either; they're not as bad as some people are making out (quite vocally). There is however something quite questionable about the class.

 

I suspect nothing will satisfy you. Here's a screenshot of Objectives, which is the closest metric that exists for contribution/effect in a warzone.

 

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/RtpTAEERE7VnzlstAjkXnKnNE4TDTmFyVv1pzPyNVM0?feat=directlink

 

Also, you clearly insinuated it was the 'level 50s who claim to do lots of damage and that opinion is moot'.

 

/shrug

 

Martyr complexes aren't healthy, btw.

Edited December 23, 2011 by revial

[indelible]

I suspect nothing will satisfy you. Here's a screenshot of Objectives, which is the closest metric that exists for contribution/effect in a warzone.

 

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/RtpTAEERE7VnzlstAjkXnKnNE4TDTmFyVv1pzPyNVM0?feat=directlink

 

Also, you clearly insinuated it was the 'level 50s who claim to do lots of damage and that opinion is moot'.

 

/shrug

 

Martyr complexes aren't healthy, btw.

 

I have said on a number of occasions in this thread (and in the post you quoted) that the functionality of the Marauder at end game is something >I< am waiting to experience. There are many fabled "holy grails" kicking around for the Marauder that everyone claims appear post-40. If post-40 the class opens up then I shall be perfectly happy.

 

My feedback has been based on my CURRENT level (which has always been made clear).

 

My problem with your screen shots - and this is the same problem any developer would have with them as well - is that they are NOT balanced metrics, and are heavily weighted in your favour. Showing me a screenshot of what you were doing in a couple of warzones at level 50 at a point in the game when the majority of your opponents are not level 50 (and before you mention scaling... no, it doesn't make up for it) isn't a good foundation for any argument. No, I WON'T be happy with ANY screenshots you provide UNLESS every single person in that Warzone is 50, they are all wearing comparable level gear and the situation is not weighted in your favour. Frankly if you were level 50 and you weren't pulling those scores at this point in the games life span you wouldn't get a grain of my time.

 

I'll accept what you are saying when I've experience level 50 (against other level 50s, might I add). Until then... you're perfectly right... your screen shots aren't acceptable in my opinion. They demonstrate some vague accomplishment for you as a player but very little beyond that.

[Shimlock]

Im a level 30 Marauder im currently annihilation but i was wondering if rage would be better for a pve pvp mix?

[Kricys]

I've tried all the trees numerous times and rage for me is simply the best for everything.

I leveled as carnage/annih going back and forth every few levels. Around 40s I switched to rage and never looked back.

[jgarrettut]

I've tried all the trees numerous times and rage for me is simply the best for everything.

I leveled as carnage/annih going back and forth every few levels. Around 40s I switched to rage and never looked back.

 

So being a low-level, would you recommend I use Anni and then switch to rage at 40, or do you think that Rage is viable for levelling at low levels.

 

Thanks.

[Rakaxs]

so you prefer the rage tree over carnage in pvp? God i'm confused. I was going rage and thought carnage would be better in PVP. again i'm not 50 so i'm not sure what particular skills ill be using the most.

[Rakaxs]

can u post up your skill tree from torhead? would like to see what points you went into.

[Switchfire]

I've tried all the trees numerous times and rage for me is simply the best for everything.

 

Could I see your tree? Im only level 20 now, but I wanna be decent on all levels.

 

Maybe throw me a bone and see your rotation? lol

[jgarrettut]

can u post up your skill tree from torhead? would like to see what points you went into.

 

Krycis posted his spec on the middle page of page 8.

Edited December 23, 2011 by jgarrettut

[Majinr]

so you prefer the rage tree over carnage in pvp? God i'm confused. I was going rage and thought carnage would be better in PVP. again i'm not 50 so i'm not sure what particular skills ill be using the most.

 

its preference, its playstyle, and its your choice and what you feel most comfortable with

 

I personally prefer Anni , some prefer carnage and some prefer Rage -

 

They all have their advantages and disadvantages in pvp - there is no so called BEST pvp spec

 

Anni is best survival spec for them 1 on 1's and even 2 on 1's, but lacks the burst

Carnage has huge burst but lacks survival compared to Anni,

Rage is very mobile compared to the other 2 trees and packs a punch too

 

Again its just choice and what you like

Edited December 23, 2011 by Majinr

[Rakaxs]

thanks at work and had yet to get to the page.

[jgarrettut]

Majinr,

 

Would you mind posting your spec?

[Majinr]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100MIbRrR0fGzZRG.1 - This is the spec im following right now, havnt reached 50 (currently 33)

 

I'm going for subjugation for the less cd time (on the interrupt esp), instead of close quarters as you can always strafe back if target is running away and force leap back onto them

 

I left the other 2 points out again is choice I would either put it in Enraged charge - for more rage , or stagger if for longer immobilize - bit this is preference really

 

Also I am not capping Dual wield mastery, as most of our damage comes from our Bleed effects , so no point wasting points there, instead cloak of pain generating more rage is better to keep ourselves from rage starvation.

 

Last point i wana make is the tier 1 talents where a lot of people prefer taking quick recovery rather than cloak of annihaltion - IMO is a waste caus our aoe sucks and gettin a lower cd on our best defensive cd by using a skill that is off gcd (can never miss or be parried) and always pops cause people are constantly hitting u is the wiser choice. - Again my opinion

Edited December 23, 2011 by Majinr

[revial]

I have said on a number of occasions in this thread (and in the post you quoted) that the functionality of the Marauder at end game is something >I< am waiting to experience. There are many fabled "holy grails" kicking around for the Marauder that everyone claims appear post-40. If post-40 the class opens up then I shall be perfectly happy.

 

My feedback has been based on my CURRENT level (which has always been made clear).

 

My problem with your screen shots - and this is the same problem any developer would have with them as well - is that they are NOT balanced metrics, and are heavily weighted in your favour. Showing me a screenshot of what you were doing in a couple of warzones at level 50 at a point in the game when the majority of your opponents are not level 50 (and before you mention scaling... no, it doesn't make up for it) isn't a good foundation for any argument. No, I WON'T be happy with ANY screenshots you provide UNLESS every single person in that Warzone is 50, they are all wearing comparable level gear and the situation is not weighted in your favour. Frankly if you were level 50 and you weren't pulling those scores at this point in the games life span you wouldn't get a grain of my time.

 

I'll accept what you are saying when I've experience level 50 (against other level 50s, might I add). Until then... you're perfectly right... your screen shots aren't acceptable in my opinion. They demonstrate some vague accomplishment for you as a player but very little beyond that.

 

I'm not level 50 in a single screenshot I posted. Level 12 in the first one, and level 40 in the second one. But, you really just want to hate the class and will make up any excuse to avoid self-responsibility for why you do so poorly or why the class 'sucks'. I get it. May I suggest playing something you hate is not healthy?

Edited December 23, 2011 by revial

[Kricys]

Well, I guess either someone loves me or I'm just plain lucky.

Got a little goodie in my champion bag today, best weapon currently available.

Here's my stats atm if anyone's curious.

 

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff435/Swsss/Screenshot_2011-12-23_17_08_07_498807.jpg

 

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff435/Swsss/Screenshot_2011-12-23_17_14_52_229957.jpg

 

 

First warzone I did with it I had a lot of low levels with me, went against a premade that had 3 50's. Didn't do so bad.

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff435/Swsss/Screenshot_2011-12-23_17_06_34_642496.jpg

Edited December 23, 2011 by Kricys

[XarenKilam]

You look like I do right now at level 33. Did you keep that gear updated with mods or is that fresh gear?