The (Un)Official PVP venting thread.

[Seireeni]

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You could say that, but in the other hand, I have no options if I want to play pvp at all. If I want to play pvp with my level 55 character while doing dailies, I don't have a button "Queue to warzones where there are no people with full augments and full pvp sets". More of a "I am forced to play at the same league with you if I want to play at all, but I can't really be bothered to put in the effort to equip my toon to be competitive with you." (Where "you" is the probably 1-4 people in full augments and pvp sets.) Because I don't do that much level 55 pvp. Or level 55 anything.

 

Think of you spending a lot of time and money to equip several toons, who are and will stay at level 20, no matter what you do. (Yes, I'm assuming you're the kind of person who's into endgame and doesn't really care for leveling.)

[L-RANDLE]

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You could say that, but in the other hand, I have no options if I want to play pvp at all. If I want to play pvp with my level 55 character while doing dailies, I don't have a button "Queue to warzones where there are no people with full augments and full pvp sets". More of a "I am forced to play at the same league with you if I want to play at all, but I can't really be bothered to put in the effort to equip my toon to be competitive with you." (Where "you" is the probably 1-4 people in full augments and pvp sets.) Because I don't do that much level 55 pvp. Or level 55 anything.

 

Think of you spending a lot of time and money to equip several toons, who are and will stay at level 20, no matter what you do. (Yes, I'm assuming you're the kind of person who's into endgame and doesn't really care for leveling.)

 

Do understand how bolster works? The devs already gave you a viable option to avoid gearing in PvP. And while "unwritten" its common knowledge that augments and stims are required for endgame activities. You got "time" for all those toons but, not crafting anything, and complaining about credits?

/facepalm

 

Why PvP @55 then? You are screwing people over intentionally. Are u ok with that?

 

U into fashion and epic mounts huh? You are the shining beacon of my rant.

Edited November 8, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[Seireeni]

Do understand how bolster works? The devs already gave you a viable option to avoid gearing in PvP. And while "unwritten" its common knowledge that augments and stims are required for endgame activities. You got "time" for all those toons but, not crafting anything, and complaining about credits?

/facepalm

 

Why PvP @55 then? You are screwing people over intentionally. Are u ok with that?

 

U into fashion and epic mounts huh? You are the shining beacon of my rant.

 

Funny, first time I hear this unwritten "rule". Not to mention that a lot of people I see in warzones don't have augments or stims. So I think your unwritten rule isn't such a rule after all - at least outside the forums. Probably because the medicore-skilled terribad-geared people don't usually come here to disagree with you.

 

I know about the bolster, but it seems (at least if one wants to look good in the eyes of people like you) that it actually makes this gearing a little harder. Back then, you just picked up your recruit gear and you were ready to go. Now, you have to grind dailies until you have enough money for augments and good enough pve gear (or you will show up with 26k hp or less). Though, pve gearing is a little easier now, with Oricon.

 

As I mentioned, 4 of my 5 level 55 characters don't have a crafting skill. My sage does, and I'm using that crafting skill to make money to buy nice things to my lowbies. As I also already mentioned, i do level 55 pvp while doing dailies, because dailies are boring as hell. And I only do dailies when I need money - to buy something nice to my lowbies. And while I do those dailies, level 55 pvp is the only pvp I can do. I do prefer lowbie, gearing being one of the huge reasons why I do that.

And, of course, I craft with my lowbies. But that doesn't really give me much money.

 

And I have a problem with the world "fashion". "Fashion" changes from time to time. I'm into figuring out a personality to my characters, and then following that personality. I pick the conversation choices based on this personality, and I choose the character's mount, pet and clothing based on this personality. And if I think some thing would fit this particular character best, I will get that item - no matter if it's a chocolate lobel that cost me 4k or a Overlord's Command Throne that cost me 2 million.

But yes, I'm into all that fluff and vanity items. Helps me emonationally connect with my characters, which keeps the game interesting.

[DainjaMouz]

This is the pvp forums for pvp discussion and you're telling me the only way to pvp is to go pve.

Actually, all I'm saying is that those of us that have accepted that augments and good gear are the baseline requirement to compete (skill v. skill) have found a way to build our kits. Some may be crafting. Some may be doing dailies. There was awhile when I was hitting the Outlaw's Den on a daily basis because no-one goes there, and I could always be assured of at least two reward boxes (containing 2500 credits and 20 WZ commendations each). Plus, I could always dig up some speeder parts and resell them on GTN. People uninterested in spending time on credit hunting (or who want to speed up the process) can always resell Cartel Market items.

 

The truth is that SWTOR gives you a range of options to generate credit revenue. Anyone who is fully augmented has found an approach (or combination of approaches) to get them there. Given that we're having this discussion here (on swtor.com), we're all subscribers. This means we all take the game seriously enough to put down real $$$ to play. Why shouldn't someone who's made the in-game effort to build a competitive toon expect similar consideration from others? It's no different from the low-geared who get voted out of endgame PvE content.

Edited November 8, 2013 by DainjaMouz

[Seireeni]

t's no different from the low-geared who get voted out of endgame PvE content.

 

Haven't seen people getting kicked out of sm operations or hm flashpoints for having no augments.

[L-RANDLE]

Funny, first time I hear this unwritten "rule". Not to mention that a lot of people I see in warzones don't have augments or stims. So I think your unwritten rule isn't such a rule after all - at least outside the forums. Probably because the medicore-skilled terribad-geared people don't usually come here to disagree with you.

 

I know about the bolster, but it seems (at least if one wants to look good in the eyes of people like you) that it actually makes this gearing a little harder. Back then, you just picked up your recruit gear and you were ready to go. Now, you have to grind dailies until you have enough money for augments and good enough pve gear (or you will show up with 26k hp or less). Though, pve gearing is a little easier now, with Oricon.

 

As I mentioned, 4 of my 5 level 55 characters don't have a crafting skill. My sage does, and I'm using that crafting skill to make money to buy nice things to my lowbies. As I also already mentioned, i do level 55 pvp while doing dailies, because dailies are boring as hell. And I only do dailies when I need money - to buy something nice to my lowbies. And while I do those dailies, level 55 pvp is the only pvp I can do. I do prefer lowbie, gearing being one of the huge reasons why I do that.

And, of course, I craft with my lowbies. But that doesn't really give me much money.

 

And I have a problem with the world "fashion". "Fashion" changes from time to time. I'm into figuring out a personality to my characters, and then following that personality. I pick the conversation choices based on this personality, and I choose the character's mount, pet and clothing based on this personality. And if I think some thing would fit this particular character best, I will get that item - no matter if it's a chocolate lobel that cost me 4k or a Overlord's Command Throne that cost me 2 million.

But yes, I'm into all that fluff and vanity items. Helps me emonationally connect with my characters, which keeps the game interesting.

You choose to screw other people over because you prefer being poor and crafting stuff for lowbies. If fluffing makes you happy, then you you can't complain about my rant.

 

And you dodged the question. Why PvP at all if you want to fluff?

[L-RANDLE]

Haven't seen people getting kicked out of sm operations or hm flashpoints for having no augments.

 

Lol yeah, maybe pug ones that rarely finish. It don't matter anyway, you are still being carried on some level by your refusal to augment..

[Seireeni]

You choose to screw other people over because you prefer being poor and crafting stuff for lowbies. If fluffing makes you happy, then you you can't complain about my rant.

 

And you dodged the question. Why PvP at all if you want to fluff?

 

You're misreading my post.

1. I craft with my sage and sell things she crafts to get money. I don't craft for lowbies with my sage.

2. I craft with my lowbies, both for my lowbies and to sell stuff, but that doesn't give me much money.

3. And the actual problem is, I don't consider this "screwing over other people". Showing up to a reg without augments, to me, isn't that. Showing there with full set of greens from level 48 is.

 

I try to explain this a little more clearly. I like pvp. However, I don't like endgame. So, I spend most of my time in lowbie. For the reasons explained above, I sometimes want to buy some fluff, and then I have to play level 55s, since my lowbies can't make much money fast. And dailies are very, very boring, and I really can't bare doing dailies for long without doing something fun between them. So, I do a couple of warzones. Does that answer your question?

[Ridickilis]

In all honesty I agree with you, DainjaMouzon, on all that (and L-Randle et all as well) and I'm working on fixing that.

 

I just feel, in general, it's a crappy design especially when you consider there aren't threads in the pve forums about telling people to go pvp before they can enter an operation. I did my part, I maxed out my coms, adrenals, medpacks and even played the two hour weapon trade in game to get my Conq. set. I use stims as well, so I'm with you guys on all that stuff.

 

Coms for coms the difference between pvp and pve is about even when you consider the 40-1 trade in (400 pvp coms to about 10 pve coms an hour). Why then, if the credit reward is about 3k per match are pvp'ers only getting 12k credits an hour (figuring on 4, 15 minute matches) when, even at my slow pace, I can get 100-200k an hour doing pve. That's really my biggest problem/gripe with this.

 

That and perhaps I got butthurt over the insinuation I was lazy.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Ridickilis

[DainjaMouz]

Haven't seen people getting kicked out of sm operations or hm flashpoints for having no augments.

Seriously? You've never been in a grouping for S&V Hard or otherwise where someone was asked to leave because they were undergeared? My guild has asked members to come back when they have better gear. Must be a very friendly server you're on--maybe one of those RP-PvEs?

Edited November 8, 2013 by DainjaMouz

[Siorac]

It's no different from the low-geared who get voted out of endgame PvE content.

 

No because failiing in PvE means no reward but huge repair cost for everyone. Failure in PvP means... slightly lower rewards.

 

I have my old level 50 augments (Might Augment 22, 18 strength + 12 endurance) in my PvP set and I'm not gonna change that any time soon because earning the necessary money takes AGES. I'm not queuing for ranked, precisely because I'm not at optimal gear but I'm having fun in regular warzones where a lot of people are in similar or worse gear anyway.

 

I used to be a Synthweaver on my Guardian but 1) crafting augment kits took ages and crafting the augments themselves required mats from slicing - which required more money etc. Also, I got sick of having to constantly buy stims and adrenals so I just switched to Biochem. So I won't craft augments but I'll buy them - slowly, over time. Because money doesn't come that easy. And I'm not going to stay out of PvP because my old augments offend someone.

[Seireeni]

Seriously? You've never been in a grouping for S&V Hard or otherwise where someone was asked to leave because they were undergeared? My guild has asked members to come back when they have better gear. Must be a very friendly server you're on--maybe one of those RP-PvEs?

 

Is S&V hard a sm operation or hm flashpoint? And I said nothing about being undergeared - I just said I have seen no one getting kicked out for having no stim or augments (while being in appropriate gear otherwise).

 

EDIT: Oh, and my server is on my signature - it's the pve server of Red Eclipse.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Seireeni

[DainjaMouz]

Coms for coms the difference between pvp and pve is about even when you consider the 40-1 trade in (400 pvp coms to about 10 pve coms an hour). Why then, if the credit reward is about 3k per match are pvp'ers only getting 12k credits an hour (figuring on 4, 15 minute matches) when, even at my slow pace, I can get 100-200k an hour doing pve. That's really my biggest problem/gripe with this.

 

I am in *complete* agreement with this, and made the same point in an earlier post. The incentives are entirely out of whack between PvE and PvP. They're based on the flawed assumption that PvP is only a "hobby" for SWTOR users, and that everyone is here for the PvE. I actually happen to think that the PvP game mechanics and settings on SWTOR are pretty decent, in that they reward tactical, team-based play (instead of the "must smash now" experience you get from something like CoD). Are there things that could be fixed? Absolutely. Even so, I play SWTOR for the PvP.

Edited November 8, 2013 by DainjaMouz

[L-RANDLE]

I have my old level 50 augments (Might Augment 22, 18 strength + 12 endurance). Snip...Because money doesn't come that easy. And I'm not going to stay out of PvP because my old augments offend someone.

 

Some are better than none. If I saw you I would assume ur a returning player and needing to upgrade, but saying "money isn't easy".

 

Roflmao..

 

No... actually its pretty easy if you want to have it. The only question is do you really want credits to bring your performance to the endgame baseline. The answer in your case is no, so yeah you should refrain from being an additional burden on other players and possibly impacting their experience due to your lack of motivation to the basics..

 

Its called player responibility, and my rant was a form of calling the "lazy and entitled" out...

Edited November 8, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[DainjaMouz]

Is S&V hard a sm operation or hm flashpoint?

 

Scum & Villany is an operation with story and hard options. It's also a operation where I choose not to group for hard mode, because I'm not geared for it. If I showed up in my current lvl55 PvE gear, I'd get voted out before I could say "hi".

 

So, my question is: what, in your mind is different between:

 

(a) fellow PvE players expecting you to be appropriately equipped to be successful in defeating bosses in endgame content;

(b) fellow PvP players expecting you to be appropriately equipped to be successful in defeating the opposing team in a WZ?

Edited November 8, 2013 by DainjaMouz

[sithBracer]

1. I craft with my sage and sell things she crafts to get money. I don't craft for lowbies with my sage.

 

First off I would just like to say it seems like you care a little bit about your teammates, otherwise you wouldn't waste your time responding to us. So that's a good thing.

 

Anyway definitely try to learn new crafts with other characters, you can make more money this way if nothing else, and you can always be ready for the next big craft. There was a time when synthweaver and biochem were big money makers, now it's something else. So if already have the characters might as well teach them some crafts.

 

3. And the actual problem is, I don't consider this "screwing over other people". Showing up to a reg without augments, to me, isn't that. Showing there with full set of greens from level 48 is.

 

In the past that used to screw people over, now with bolster the biggest gear difference between have and have nots is augments. You might not have known this so I am telling you now. A fully augmented purple has at least a 448 main stat advantage over you (that is quite a lot).

 

I try to explain this a little more clearly. I like pvp. However, I don't like endgame. So, I spend most of my time in lowbie. For the reasons explained above, I sometimes want to buy some fluff, and then I have to play level 55s, since my lowbies can't make much money fast. And dailies are very, very boring, and I really can't bare doing dailies for long without doing something fun between them. So, I do a couple of warzones. Does that answer your question?

 

I understand, I am also big into fashion. My sorc had 3 different grand inquisitor tops just for the colors (not to mention a variety of other outfits). I spent probably miliions buying up the covert waist energy armors, lots of cartel coins getting my favorite lightsaber color crystals and spent hours trying to find the perfect matching outfits and colors (I threw away 50+ belts because they didn't match my outfit the way I was expecting). That being said, I always made sure to do more than the bare minimum for wzs and for ops. I would never come into an op wearing 48 greens just because I like how they look and I would do my best to keep up with everyone in wzs. It's common manners. They are giving up their time and effort teaming up with me and I should do my best (at least my absolute minimum) to not drag them down.

 

You asked before what the absolute minimum was, but I think you misinterpreted what I said. I said DO that absolute minimum, not HAVE the absolutely minimum. What I meant was, if you have enough money, augment. If I see someone come in one day with 3 blues I will not get upset because I can see he is at least trying. then the next day if he comes in with 4, the same thing. Honestly is it really that hard to get one blue augment every 3 days if you are on every day? I don't think so. If you can't even do that, then you are just saying "to hell with everyone else, I am ok with dragging down my team". You don't have to come in with all purples on the first day, but at least try to show half an effort, please.

[Siorac]

Some are better than none. If I saw you I would assume ur a returning player and needing to upgrade, but saying "money isn't easy".

 

Roflmao..

 

No... actually its pretty easy if you want to have it. The only question is do you really want credits to bring your performance to the endgame baseline. The answer in your case is no, so yeah you should refrain from being an additional burden on other players and possibly impacting their experience due to your lack of motivation to do the basics..

 

Its called player responsibility, and my rant was a form of calling the "lazy and entitled" out...

 

I do want credits but I also don't want to be bored most of the time. I did a lot of tedious daily grinding to fully augment my PvE stuff and right now I don't really have the heart to start it all over for PvP. Once I get full Conqueror, min-maxed (I'll min-max it before going for Obroan, this "being able to buy mods" thing is awesome) I'll probably augment everything properly. But no, money doesn't come easy. Well, it's EASY, of course, I mean, dailies offer no challenge but they are tedious as hell. I found that doing old planetary heroics is kinda lucrative, I'll probably do that when I feel like that.

 

BUT! Regular warzones aren't about the absolute optimum performance. You have to do your best, yeah: playing objectives, calling inc etc. - but grinding huge amounts of money just to satisfy the leet crowd shouldn't be a requirement, at all. And it thankfully isn't as you can queue up without augments. Really, doing tedious stuff to earn money in order to do good stuff - that's not how I want to spend my free time because that's what I do in real life.

[sithBracer]

when you consider there aren't threads in the pve forums about telling people to go pvp before they can enter an operation. I did my part, I maxed out my coms, adrenals, medpacks and even played the two hour weapon trade in game to get my Conq. set. I use stims as well, so I'm with you guys on all that stuff.

 

Many of us agree that it sucks how bioware treats us PvPers (heal to full anyone?), but unfortunately that is our current situation. It's one of the reasons so many PvPers left the game. Unfortunately this is the situation we are in. PvE makes most of the money for BW so that is where they invest in most. At least for now, it seems like we will be second class citizens.

 

Coms for coms the difference between pvp and pve is about even when you consider the 40-1 trade in (400 pvp coms to about 10 pve coms an hour). Why then, if the credit reward is about 3k per match are pvp'ers only getting 12k credits an hour (figuring on 4, 15 minute matches) when, even at my slow pace, I can get 100-200k an hour doing pve. That's really my biggest problem/gripe with this.

 

I think we all agree there as well. It really sucks. But, not much we can do about it, except complain on forums and/or leave the game.

[L-RANDLE]

You're misreading my post.

1. I craft with my sage and sell things she crafts to get money. I don't craft for lowbies with my sage.

2. I craft with my lowbies, both for my lowbies and to sell stuff, but that doesn't give me much money.

3. And the actual problem is, I don't consider this "screwing over other people". Showing up to a reg without augments, to me, isn't that. Showing there with full set of greens from level 48 is.

 

I try to explain this a little more clearly. I like pvp. However, I don't like endgame. So, I spend most of my time in lowbie. For the reasons explained above, I sometimes want to buy some fluff, and then I have to play level 55s, since my lowbies can't make much money fast. And dailies are very, very boring, and I really can't bare doing dailies for long without doing something fun between them. So, I do a couple of warzones. Does that answer your question?

 

And this is why you are sooo wrong. Showing up in greens is irrelevant because of bolster. The only REAL gearing for endgame PvP are augments, so if you have ANY desire to engage in endgame PvP you should be augmented. And all of this can be accomplished prior to hitting 55.

 

As much as you say you don't think your are screwing people over, YOU ARE. You are impacting other players because you are "bored" and don't want to do the one little task to be at the PvP baseline. You are why we need restrictions for endgame PvP. Its too hard to expect people to do right by their teammates...

[DainjaMouz]

No because failiing in PvE means no reward but huge repair cost for everyone. Failure in PvP means... slightly lower rewards.

 

There are some people I know (myself included) who place more importance in learning and being skillful / competitive in a dynamic, constantly changing PvP environment than in beating up a boss that's been micro-analyzed in 142 different online guides and blogs. You can always earn more credits.

[Siorac]

There are some people I know (myself included) who place more importance in learning and being skillful / competitive in a dynamic, constantly changing PvP environment than in beating up a boss that's been micro-analyzed in 142 different online guides and blogs. You can always earn more credits.

 

And that has nothing to do with what I responded to... you claimed that not augmenting in PvP was the same thing as showing up in suboptimal gear for Operations but it isn't. Whether you prefer PvE or PvP is neither here nor there.

[sithBracer]

BUT! Regular warzones aren't about the absolute optimum performance. You have to do your best, yeah: playing objectives, calling inc etc. - but grinding huge amounts of money just to satisfy the leet crowd shouldn't be a requirement, at all. And it thankfully isn't as you can queue up without augments. Really, doing tedious stuff to earn money in order to do good stuff - that's not how I want to spend my free time because that's what I do in real life.

 

It's not a requirement, but you will end up like a team I played with yesterday which lost about (450-0) in ACV. I was the only one who capped even once, and had 4 deaths. Everyone else had ... a lot more. Now you may think this team was just good at focus firing, but that is not the case. They were just much better geared than us. A second match we scored a nice 0 in AH (I came in in the middle of that one-9 kills, 1 death by pylon). Once again, same story.

 

If getting steamrolled like this is fun for you, if you like having 4 people fruitlessly attacking an op healer while she sits there and just throws out HoTs and heals herself (happens all the time on my op healer), if you enjoy not being able to take a node with a 5 v 3, then please continue doing what you are doing.

[Siorac]

It's not a requirement, but you will end up like a team I played with yesterday which lost about (450-0) in ACV. I was the only one who capped even once, and had 4 deaths. Everyone else had ... a lot more. Now you may think this team was just good at focus firing, but that is not the case. They were just much better geared than us. A second match we scored a nice 0 in AH (I came in in the middle of that one-9 kills, 1 death by pylon). Once again, same story.

 

If getting steamrolled like this is fun for you, if you like having 4 people fruitlessly attacking an op healer while she sits there and just throws out HoTs and heals herself (happens all the time on my op healer), if you enjoy not being able to take a node with a 5 v 3, then please continue doing what you are doing.

 

Again, I do have augments and plan to get more. I do OK. I just don't feel that people like RANDLE should rage about augments and deny that they are expensive. Because they are, really expensive.

 

And where does it end? I play a Vigilance Guardian. It's not a very good PvP spec. Does that mean I disrespect my teammates? If I weren't so lazy, I could have a fully minmaxed Focus Sentinel instead. But I prefer to waste everyone's time by queuing on the Guardian. I shouldn't do that, should I?

[DainjaMouz]

And that has nothing to do with what I responded to... you claimed that not augmenting in PvP was the same thing as showing up in suboptimal gear for Operations but it isn't. Whether you prefer PvE or PvP is neither here nor there.

 

You're right, my analogy wasn't entirely clear. What I was trying to say is that you seem to be fine with respecting the credit levels of PvEers in endgame content; but, you don't seem to have any problem waltzing into a WZ undergeared. Whether you appreciate it or not, it is likely that many of the PvPers with whom you're grouped place the same level of importance on winning the WZ as your PvE partners place on their virtual wallets.

 

It's all a matter of perspective. I could care less about <the cost of> fixing operations damage--I even bought a repair droid so I could fix on the fly. However, I do take issue when I want to compete in a format that rewards highly-geared, highly-skilled players with victories, and someone takes a flyer because they're bored with dailes or whatnot.

 

EDIT: And no, I don't expect you to say "wow, I never thought of it that way before."

Edited November 8, 2013 by DainjaMouz

[sithBracer]

Again, I do have augments and plan to get more. I do OK. I just don't feel that people like RANDLE should rage about augments and deny that they are expensive. Because they are, really expensive.

 

That's fine. Even if you can get 1 blue every 3 days, I'm ok with that. You don't have to be in all purples in the next 5 minutes. As long as you are making an effort I double many people will blame you (at least I won't).

 

And where does it end? I play a Vigilance Guardian. It's not a very good PvP spec. Does that mean I disrespect my teammates? If I weren't so lazy, I could have a fully minmaxed Focus Sentinel instead. But I prefer to waste everyone's time by queuing on the Guardian. I shouldn't do that, should I?

 

Vigilance is a good spec if you know how to play it. Most specs (even madness assassin) can provide some use to a team provided the user knows the spec and is geared properly. Concealment ops can be healer killer/annoyers, madness assassins can be do some DoT/AoE damage against the other team, annihilation marauders can be ... yeah don't play annihilation. But even the best spec can't do much when it is 448 main stat below someone fully augmented.

Edited November 8, 2013 by sithBracer