Struggling with Sith Warrior / Jugg in general PvE / Leveling.

[Kamatsu]

Hi,

 

Not sure if this should be posted here or over in the class forums - just seems most of the threads over there deal with end-game, OP's, Flashpoints or PvP... none of which I'm interested in right now. (and this is technically my 2nd character.. so still somewhat new?)

 

I've recently gotten a Jedi Consular through the JC main story and finished at lvl 52, decided to play a Sith Warrior next... and struggling so bad I think I might have made a mistake (either in choosing Jugg over Mara, or just my build). Thing for me is, I do not remember my JC having this much trouble, but difference is my JC started with a tank and off-healed the tank as needed... whereas my SW is trying to be the tank with no heal's..

 

So I'm level 17 and just arrived on Balmorra, have not done any combat here... but I know my last few quest's in the Temple on Dromaand Kaas (sp?) was terrible. I was coming close to dying each fight... I'd end the fight sitting on ~30% health or so. Not sure what I'm doing wrong

 

I believe I'm in good gear - as soon as I hit 15 I upgraded to a mix of lvl 15 blues & greens (I only bought what I considered to be "reasonably" priced.. ie no 20K blue pants.. pfft!).

 

- Vette has all lvl 15 blues & greens, except helm and wristbands - lvl 10 & 11 respectively (there are no affordable low level helms on the GTN.. they are all like 50-100K.. pfft!). She has 1 adaptive pistol, other is a lvl 15 blue. Stats focusing on Cunning.

- I am using 50/50 adaptive armor with mostly lvl 17 blue mods, except for 2 green lvl 17 armorings. What is not adaptive (belt, gloves & wrist) are lvl 15 blue's. Focusing on strength & endurance.

- when I was lvl 15 I was using mostly blue lvl 15 mods. I've been focusing on keeping my gear as up-to-date as I can with blue mods / gear.

 

I know I need to recheck GTN as I just hit lvl 17 and new gear will be available for Vette, but I was lvl 15-16 on previous planet, doing lvl 14-15 quest's... and struggling with the fights. The fights were generally 1 silver & 1 normal, or 3 normals..

 

What I would do is get close, do force charge (on the silver if there was 1), I'd then do Smash if it was a group of normals, or sundering assault if it was a silver, after SA I'd do ravage.. once that finished I'd do vicious assault till no rage, then assault to build up rage... and continue till enemy was dead. When attacking normal mobs, it was charge, smash, VA till no rage then assault to build rage and VA whenever have the rage for it.

 

I'm just not sure what exactly I'm doing wrong here. I've tried doing fights in both combat stances I have access to, and both have the same outcome.. fights end with me sitting on 20-40% health. The fights do go somewhat quicker when in Shi-Co over Soresu, but no terribly noticeable different to me.

 

My build isn't much right now, simply because of my low level and not really all that sure what to do. I thought it might not make that much difference this early on.. maybe I'm wrong.

 

Current build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101ZdRM.3

An alternate build I've considered: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101ZZdMMz.3

'Tank' tree alternative: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101RMR.3

 

Would like some advice if possible - considering I'm not interested in PvP, end-game (I'll deal with endgame when/if I get there - and not really interested in tanking for anyone other than my companions), flashpoints, etc.

 

- Would I be better off leveling as Mara over Jugg?

- What kind of build would suit me better at this low level?

- Am I struggling so hard because I'm basically a dps/dps team?

- Does this mean I'm basically going to be forced to continue of with Quinn as soon as I have him?

[LadyDarkkitten]

Ok so. Im a lev 55 jug. I also have a mara, a jedi guardian and a sent. (also a sage which btw is easier to level with in my experience)

 

- Would I be better off leveling as Mara over Jugg?

At this level no not really. Probably be harder. I assume your using heavy armor where its not adaptive? Maras dont come into their own until their 30s when they get their cds and enough talent points to get their hard hitting damage dealers. Wheras with a jug you can basically do the game with assault smash scream and ravage. People have.

 

- What kind of build would suit me better at this low level?

The points in stagger are wasted unless you pvp. If you pvp to level, then change yr build for that and do wzs between planets. To level in Balmorra I advise you go something like

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101ZcMzZb.3

going into http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MZcMMZb.3 then go up the Imm tree.

dont worry about yr hit unless your trying to do flashpoints/elites higher level then you. (dont do that).

 

- Am I struggling so hard because I'm basically a dps/dps team?

Nope. Your struggling cos you arent using yr abilties correctly. Take Va of yr bars and use forcescream. seriously Va spam that stops you using other stuff is a really hard habit to break at 55 and kills you. Get used to not using it now if its stopping you using your other abilties. Its only supposed to be used as a rage dump not as rotation if your not a specced up rage > lev 30ish.

 

- Does this mean I'm basically going to be forced to continue of with Quinn as soon as I have him?

Quinn is nice, but I used yette untill Jessa for both mara and jug.

 

If you use a shield with soresu you should notice a diff and thats what I advise you to use. Vette will kill everything for you, just hold the aggro for her and use CC (smash scream, tab target ravage) to slow the incoming damage to you. The temple quests on DK are hard solo. Spend some time doing the quests on Bal and get your levels up so you are at/1 level over the level of your content and you will be plesenatly surprised how it will all click together.

Gluck and have fun

 

edit missed a point. Yr tank tree build was ok, but get 3/3 of quake. It really really does help.

Edited November 2, 2013 by LadyDarkkitten

[Kamatsu]

LadyDarkkitten - thank you for the informativcve reply

 

- 1st point.

 

Yes, where my armor is not adaptive it's heavy armor on me (and medium on Vette). Every little bit of damage mitigation I can get will help me, esp since I seem to have my health clobbered a lot in fights.

 

LOL Jugg sounds just like I did with JC then. I got through most of the game basically using 2 attacks - Weaken Mind & Telekinetic Throw (well, once I got these skills). Well, obviously I also used the bubble & healing skills as needed, but only needed 2 skills for attack (lol considering I spent 50-60% of the time healing Qyzen/Iresso... lolz)

 

- 2nd point

 

Gah, I would pick a PvP talent. I don't have much interest in PvP. Your alternate options look much better for me, and I think I'll switch to it and try. I generally don't try and do quests & stuff higher level than me, so shouldn't be an issue - so I'll ignore hit for now.

 

- 3rd Point.

 

Oh my. I should have realized this about VA. I used to play a Warrior in WoW.. so VA = Heroic Strike, which is the warrior's rage dump. */facepalm*. Well, in my defence it's been a long, long time since I've played WoW or a warrior in WoW (umm, like 3 years or so... lolz)

 

Time to re-arrange my skill bar.. and move VA away from temptation. It's just too easy to stand there spamming 1 & 2... no wonder my fights are going so badly and I'm struggling so much. lol

 

Should I be worrying about retaliation atm? or just sunder assault, ravage, smash, scream & assault? I know retaliation must come into play as Immortal at some point, since it has talents which increase it's crit chance, lower's it's CD & makes it give a defensive buff when used...

 

- 4th Point.

 

Cheers. I'm really liking Vette's personality so far, so didn't really want to have to dump her to have Quinn tag along. Hopefully with the relevant changes to my build & skill usage... things will go a lot smoother for me.

[LadyDarkkitten]

ret is really good, because its off the global cd. Its basically free damage. As you get up the Imm tree you will get talents to reduce its cd/rage and it will give you more mitigation, making it something you will hit everytime its up. Bioware wont give us macros, otherwise I would macro it to every abilty, for now get it to a good keybind and hit it when its up (mine is "5")

[Lithaladh]

Well, good job on most accounts.

1) Probably not. This is because when you swap classes, even sub classes, you have to change your playstyle. You don't play like a tank with a dps for the most basic comparison. JC and SW are drastically different classes, but you seem to be getting the hang of the SW.

2) Any build works at the point of the game that you are at, though, I would advise that for any build you do, feat out Saber Mastery. This skill goes across all the trees. It enhances Soresu, Shii-cho and Shien. It is a good base.

3)That is a possibility. Have you ever played with just dps with your JC and a dps companion? Or did you go JC sage and feat out as a healer? If you did the second option, you are going to have to shift your focus around a bit. Focus more on burning through the opponent via your more damage dealing skills. So, build rage, deal damage, build more rage, deal more damage as an idea. Also, as it was mentioned before, your Force Scream is the Sith Warrior's mid-range skill. Whenever you can, spam it. It has the nifty effect of stunning your normal to weak enemies for a few seconds while doing some impressive damage.

4) I found that with Quinn, you either love him or you hate him. Some people, when they acquired him as a companion, stuck with him to the end from the first quest. Then there are others, like myself and a previous poster that don't like him as much, it at all. He kinda sucks as a healer companion compared to the Jedi Knight's Doc or the Bounty Hunter's Mako, but you have to make up your opinion of him yourself. You don't have to be stuck with him. With my marauder, I continued running around with Vette till getting Jaesa. With my Jugg, I tried him out with one quest series and found that I was dying faster with him as a companion than with Vette, though my Jugg was/is Immortal specced at the time.

[georgemattson]

This may be completely irrelevant (and I haven't played a tank, so can't really comment on that), but I wonder what your crew skills are and if you're using them at all to help out?

 

Just for myself, I've leveled two sentinels & one mara, and I don't recall ever having the kind of difficulty you're having, but then I did artifice with my first, which meant my hilts & thus my damage was always top notch at every level (along with enhancements & crystals, then did synthweaving with the second (mistake, but it helped with orange armor, at least), leveled a cybertech to get updated armor/mods/earpieces (eventually), etc.

 

I don't know what the consensus would be on the quality of your gear, but based on what you've posted, it sounds significantly worse than what I've consistently leveled with. A good piece of purple gear can often last you ten levels, by the way, before it's obsolete.

[Kamatsu]

Update - changed my talent build and adjusted my bar. I'm finding I'm still using VS a lot now, but it's being used for what it's meant for - a rage dump when everything else is on CD. I'm finding things a lot easier now, although I'm still struggling a lot with getting used to changing the way I fight... but things are a lot better now. I might still have to re-arrange my bar some more... but things are getting more fluid for me, and not taking so much damage anymore vs silvers and such (still getting smacked-about by golds.. but that's not a problem).

 

Lithaladh:

 

1 - Having to swap playstyle is a big thing which is hindering me I think. Because on my JC I'd send in the tank, let it get a hit or 2 in before starting to do my dps before switching to healing my companion (and switching back to dps'ing whenever possible). Whereas with my SW... it's a completely different playstyle - jump in, try and aggro everything and *I* am the tank, just without heals. lolz.

 

3. I never played with a dps companion on my JC. I used Qyzen then Iresso, both being tanks. Up till somewhere in the 30's I was specced mainly balance dps and would dps while the tank held aggro, healing the tank as needed. Upon hitting 30's... fights got harder, so I switched to a hybrid healing/balance-dps spec (enough Balance to get no CD on Telekinetic Throw) and mixed dps & healing (spent more time healing than dps). Only time I used a dps companion was the 1 mission where I had to use Nadia for.

 

Regarding Force Scream & such - it's a bit hard to spam it with a 12 second CD. Although I find it's not really an issue so far.. vs silver mobs I'm now doing this: Charge -> Sundering Assault -> Smash if there are other mobs around -> Scream or Ravage -> Ravage or Scream -> Smash if not already -> Vicious Assault till Scream/Smash/Ravage comes off CD -> VA till CD's down... etc. I'm finding that with this kind of flow I'm easily sitting on 5+ rage most of the time, so spamming VA is not a problem after everything else in on C.. because Charge -> SA generates like 8 rage for me.. and things have been dying fast enough that rage hasn't been an issue, esp if I use SA as soon as it comes off CD.

 

georgemattson:

 

My current crew skills are Scavenging, Archaeology & Bio... 3 gathering skills. Choose 3 gathering skills because I know gathering skills can make lots of money, and I can use that money to upgrade gear (esp considering decent blue gear seems to cost like 5-10K a piece on my server @ my level.. blah). I used 3 gathering skills on my JC, and made quite a bit of money as I leveled up, although a big chunk of that is now gone after paying for my XP & Companion unlocks on my SW (which makes me now glad I'm not going to re-start my SW... lolz).

 

And yeah, I'm using them - made ~100K so far on my SW, which is helping to keep my gear up-to-date. Just sadly can't get everything, as I refuse to spend ~30K just to get blue lvl 19 armorments for my SW... so using Planetary Commendations as I can, but I'm down to 0 PC after using them to upgrade my lightsaber hilt, 2 armorings & 1 of Vette's blasters (only have 1 moddable blaster on her) with lvl 19 blue upgrades.

 

Maybe someone will call me cheap, but I hate spending everything I have to upgrade.. just to have to scrimp and save and hope to make enough to fully upgrade again in 2-4 level's. So I buy what I can and what's "cheap" & not over-priced, use PC whenever possible and try and hope my stuff sells (and curse at ppl who severely undercut everyone else... pfft!).

 

Would I be better off dropping 1 of the gathering skills and picking up a crafting skill instead? Using the crafting skill to make either armorings, hilts or barrels, and then just using commendations for mods, enhancements, & whatever I can't make... and sell everything left over in regards to gathered mats and stuff?

 

Again, this is bizarre for me as I did not have this issue on my JC. However I've noticed that generally priced for +str gear is a lot higher than the +willpower gear my JC uses. So I was easily able to buy a lot of hilts, armorings & mods off the GTN for dirt-cheap compared to what my SW would need. I'm talking like 1-2K for a blue lvl 19 +will armoring vs 7-9K for a blue lvl 19 +str armoring. That is a huge difference.. esp if your trying to buy 3-4 pieces.. that's 3-8K for +will vs 21-36K for +str.

 

And this is why me making 100K might sound like it's ok.. but when you consider the crazy extra high cost's I'm facing.. that 100K will go away in just 1 full equip if I bought all the armorings, mods, hilts, etc I needed just for my SW.. and forget trying to gear Vette up after that.

 

So hmmm, maybe I would be better off changing my crew skills and making my own armorings instead? or hilts? Any suggestions?

 

Oh, and forget purple gear.. purple gear cost's like 50k+ per piece.. I'm nowhere near being able to fork out on those.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Kamatsu

[Lithaladh]

Looks like you have a pretty good grasp of the game.

As for crafting ideas. . .if you can make purples that your jugg can use with your JC go right ahead and use them. As you are playing a juggernaut, being able to craft your own armourings would be useful, provided you can actually craft them. I think that at lvl 17, the cybertech is limited to might and resolve armourings, neither of which are ideal for a tanking jugg. It does get more diverse, but that starts at around lvl 30 requirements for the crafted items. For every crafting crew skill, you need the 2 corresponding gathering skills. . .which can get expensive to keep up your crafting, your companion's gear and your own fast. Real fast. Or even just keeping your crafting up to date can result in you burning through your hard earned credits.

A good tip for upgrading your toon's gear would be to spend planetary comms on the armourings, mods and enhancements you need at the end of each planet or stopping by the planetary commendation modification vendor on the next planet and seeing what you can upgrade there. All of those mods would be blue, unless you go to the mod vendor, then they'll be green. While it is a good idea to keep your companion's gear up to date, that can be achieved by just leveling through a planet and picking the gear from quest rewards. This also works if you don't mind having the odd green piece of gear on your character as well.

Burning through your cash is never fun. Especially when you need it at the higher levels to train class skills. . .I've been there several times (keeping my jugg, tanking assassin, marauder and bounty hunter's crafting up to date no less).

Edited November 3, 2013 by Lithaladh

[georgemattson]

So hmmm, maybe I would be better off changing my crew skills and making my own armorings instead? or hilts? Any suggestions?

 

Wish I could give you a better answer, but TBH, I never been good at making money, and my characters were all crafters up until this last one. Been concentrating on getting his slicing up, but I also haven't played him, so I still only have the one companion on the gathering-only alt.

 

Oh, and forget purple gear.. purple gear cost's like 50k+ per piece.. I'm nowhere near being able to fork out on those.

 

This, though, I can speak to. Fwiw, I've been equipped in purple gear relatively regularly upon coming back, but that's also thanks to having seven toons, with six of them running crafting missions. Still, I do know that when I just had the one (artifice), keeping myself equipped with purple crystals, hilts, and enhancements was relatively easy. Granted, I still needed all the other stuff (which would occasionally be lacking, but on average, I'd say I was likely better geared than most.

 

The flip side to that, though, is that I'm perpetually poor. You gotta spend money on running missions to get those mats in order to make equipment.

[georgemattson]

Looks like you have a pretty good grasp of the game.

As for crafting ideas. . .if you can make purples that your jugg can use with your JC go right ahead and use them. As you are playing a juggernaut, being able to craft your own armourings would be useful, provided you can actually craft them. I think that at lvl 17, the cybertech is limited to might and resolve armourings, neither of which are ideal for a tanking jugg.

 

Not exactly. I think you're thinking of MIght, Resolve, Reflex (Aim) and Skill (Cunning), all of which you can craft at a level requirement of 9. It does start to open up at 33. Of course, I also haven't much developed that Cybertech beyond 450 (i.e., not a lot of custom schematics), so I'm not sure if there's more.

 

It does get more diverse, but that starts at around lvl 30 requirements for the crafted items. For every crafting crew skill, you need the 2 corresponding gathering skills. . .which can get expensive to keep up your crafting, your companion's gear and your own fast. Real fast. Or even just keeping your crafting up to date can result in you burning through your hard earned credits.

 

Yep - definitely. Hence why I'm typically poor as a church mouse.

 

A good tip for upgrading your toon's gear would be to spend planetary comms on the armourings, mods and enhancements you need at the end of each planet or stopping by the planetary commendation modification vendor on the next planet and seeing what you can upgrade there. All of those mods would be blue, unless you go to the mod vendor, then they'll be green. While it is a good idea to keep your companion's gear up to date, that can be achieved by just leveling through a planet and picking the gear from quest rewards. This also works if you don't mind having the odd green piece of gear on your character as well.

Burning through your cash is never fun. Especially when you need it at the higher levels to train class skills. . .I've been there several times (keeping my jugg, tanking assassin, marauder and bounty hunter's crafting up to date no less).

 

By the way, one nifty little trick; if you find yourself with an overdose of planetary comms and nothing to spend it on, and just want the purple stuff, you can RE the mods you get from the vendors.

Edited November 3, 2013 by georgemattson

[Lithaladh]

Not exactly. I think you're thinking of MIght, Resolve, Reflex (Aim) and Skill (Cunning), all of which you can craft at a level requirement of 9. It does start to open up at 33. Of course, I also haven't much developed that Cybertech beyond 450 (i.e., not a lot of custom schematics), so I'm not sure if there's more.

. . .

By the way, one nifty little trick; if you find yourself with an overdose of planetary comms and nothing to spend it on, and just want the purple stuff, you can RE the mods you get from the vendors.

 

For the first part, I was wondering if I forgot anything, thanks for the correction.

For the second part, I didn't know that. . .thanks for the info.

[georgemattson]

For the first part, I was wondering if I forgot anything, thanks for the correction.

For the second part, I didn't know that. . .thanks for the info.

 

Of course; any time

 

By the way - to the OP, one thing I forgot to mention. If you do end up doing a lot of crafting, keep an eye on the skill level requirements of the gear you're making. If you level your crafting skill beyond your class level, this can be advantangeous, as you end up wasting items less. I often found myself leveling beyond the stuff I crafted, and especially as you get into crafting purple gear (which often requires rare mats), you'll be stuck with a choice of crafting something 1 level below or 1 level above. In such instances, I usually crafted stuff for the level above so that it would last me longer.

[Skolle]

... vs silver mobs I'm now doing this: Charge -> Sundering Assault -> Smash if there are other mobs around -> Scream or Ravage -> Ravage or Scream -> Smash if not already -> Vicious Assault till Scream/Smash/Ravage comes off CD -> VA till CD's down... etc. QUOTE]

 

This is pretty much what you'll do all the way up. But don't forget about Retaliation. This is a reactionary attack, only being available after you parry or whatever. Once talented (Lash Out), it costs only one rage, and hits surprisingly hard. This should be used every time it pops.

 

If you go up the Immortal tree, it also provides a defensive buff when used, really a fantastic ability overall.

[Kurzaa]

This is probably obvious, especially with this being your second character, but I thought it should be said. Don't Force Charge the elite mobs as they can take a beating. Instead jump for weak mobs, which should give you enough rage for an AoE smash, securing your threat against Vette. The weak mobs should drop fairly quick, so you take less damage, then you can focus on the silver mob followed by the gold mobs.

 

I would only Sunder after a Force Charge if you were going one on one, in which case I believe you would want to avoid using Smash. Though I have an issue avoiding using the AoE on my Jedi Guadian.

 

Obviously you are having gear issues at the moment, so keeping adaptive gear within 4 levels rather than 2 will not help you at all. However, you can buy some "cheap" custom pieces from the social vendors at low levels, including helms. Myself, I try to queue for dailies everyday while questing for the commendations and always take the comm token rather than green gear or lock boxes. Then I supplement my comm gear with cheap greens off of the AH.

 

One more thought. You can buy random ear pieces on Dromand Kass for 14+ characters / companions. It is from the medic near the paranoid commander who slaughtered his platoon when they were planning his surprise party. If you don't get something you or Vette can wear, simply sell it back and re-buy it until you find a compatible pair.

 

EDIT: Occasionally it is also a good idea for Vette to pull the silver mobs to take advantage of her health pool, this should cut back on the time need for you to heal. Plus, you should be able to Force Charge back to her after killing the weaker mobs.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Kurzaa