Sustained Deception DPS

[Diefexor]

Why are people complaining about lack of sustained sin dps? I see comments like that all over the forums. Hit saber strike a few times and use your CDs correctly. I get low on force. Like we should.... But use saber strike, blackout and cloak right and you get it back. (very broad and basic examples of getting force... this is not a guide)

 

PVP: Damage in both WZs and Arenas competes with any class.

PVE: I can sustain my dps throughout whole fight operation boss fights.

 

I do not think Sins have a resource problem in pvp or pve. I think people just like using the nuke button all the time. I just don't see where the support for the belief of lack of sustained sin dps is coming from.

[FailFitSloop]

The assassin was never about sustained DPS.. it was advertised as burst melee dps. What do you get when you have bursts of high damage and periods of low damage? Answer is a sustained average over time.

[cs_zoltan]

The assassin was never about sustained DPS.. it was advertised as burst melee dps. What do you get when you have bursts of high damage and periods of low damage? Answer is a sustained average over time.

 

Tell that to the Carnage Marauders....

[Evolixe]

/signature

 

Need I say more?

[IInox]

that 3d starter doesn't know what is it dps.

 

I don't have problems with force management too but do u know how dps you lose using saber strike?

 

don't think so..

 

have you never seen the graphic of your dps?

 

naah...

 

you don't know how works infiltration. sry

Edited October 20, 2013 by IInox

[Evolixe]

that 3d starter doesn't know what is it dps.

 

I don't have problems with force management too but do u know how dps you lose using saber strike?

 

don't think so..

 

have you never seen the graphic of your dps?

 

naah...

 

you don't know how works infiltration. sry

 

What are you saying and who are you saying it to?

[Elyx]

the issue they're describing OP is the environment where in short "burst" situations, our damage is good. outside of those cyclical short term environments, our DPS is bad. bad enough that we score low overall in comparison to other classes.

 

Scoreboards in PvP have so many variables they are not a good indicator of a class potential, period. Parsing in PvE is more accurate...and this is where the weakness in Damage is showing up. If every fight was 20 seconds long, and allowed a shadow/assassin to burst out of stealth, our damage would be stellar. but you get outside that window, and your overall damage drops considerably.

 

You would have to post regular parses in raid environments and compare them to get a real picture of your overall PvE DPS...the sheer fact that you have skills to hit on a regular basis is no indication of decent DPS whatsoever.

 

And this is where people are/were noticing the shortfall. I personally am still undecided if the fix is going to resolve this, and if its the positive changes people are looking for. I know myself that I was hoping for something different for Balance/Madness....instead the one skill we get tired of spamming gets a mild buff. Oh well...Im hoping the changes impact infiltration better.

[Evolixe]

You talk about continuous damage and I give you a 2 minute length game where I did 1420 DPS on my shadow.

Which is considered very high even for classes like marauders and powertechs..

 

My damage outside of the burst is far from bad and with only getting my cooldowns back ONCE I managed to do that kind of damage in a single game.

 

My burst is maybe 25k damage, twice. The other 90k damage didn't come out of thin air. Say my burst period is 6 seconds.. then I did 50k damage in 12 seconds and the other 90k over 88 seconds.

 

Fyi, 90k damage over 88 seconds is still over 1000 DPS. Without burst cooldowns.

 

If all that doesn't prove that Assassin/Shadow damage is fine in PvP then honestly I don't know what does.

[thejollygreenone]

You talk about continuous damage and I give you a 2 minute length game where I did 1420 DPS on my shadow.

Which is considered very high even for classes like marauders and powertechs..

 

My damage outside of the burst is far from bad and with only getting my cooldowns back ONCE I managed to do that kind of damage in a single game.

 

My burst is maybe 25k damage, twice. The other 90k damage didn't come out of thin air. Say my burst period is 6 seconds.. then I did 50k damage in 12 seconds and the other 90k over 88 seconds.

 

Fyi, 90k damage over 88 seconds is still over 1000 DPS. Without burst cooldowns.

 

If all that doesn't prove that Assassin/Shadow damage is fine in PvP then honestly I don't know what does.

 

i think that infiltration/deception is quite alright in pvp, so i agree with you. however pve is a very different story, and the problem of low sustained becomes magnified greatly. this doesnt mean that theyre not viable though, i still play infiltration in pve regardless of how lucky i have to be to do acceptably.

[IInox]

i think that infiltration/deception is quite alright in pvp, so i agree with you. however pve is a very different story, and the problem of low sustained becomes magnified greatly. this doesnt mean that theyre not viable though, i still play infiltration in pve regardless of how lucky i have to be to do acceptably.

 

ah jolly..don't talk with pvp players. It seems there is just pvp for them. rofl.

[Soisa]

Evo u take one single match where u played against the best of the best of the best. with no guard no spot no (i think) def cd´s against you without getting in trouble to hide or something else.....

srsly? u want to show with that match that dps is fine?

come on.

in solo q its no problem. i wouldt say anything. here is the dps fine... but in 4er q its another story.

 

the problem is that after the burst u have to "hope" for krits. without krits ur dps will be very low.

Most shadow´s are full ap with verly low kritrating about 18-19 % double ap relic and hope to devaste people:-)

since a week i have switched to higher kritrating and lower ap with krit relic.

the matches feeling better. with proc from balance tier 1 and the relic i´m about 44% krit.

by 790 melee bonus dmg. So krits are not soooo high but still ok.

 

a way to higher dps. if u like.

but i doesnt fix the problem that we have when we are in focusfire :-)

[Evolixe]

Evo u take one single match where u played against the best of the best of the best. with no guard no spot no (i think) def cd´s against you without getting in trouble to hide or something else.....

srsly? u want to show with that match that dps is fine?

come on.

in solo q its no problem. i wouldt say anything. here is the dps fine... but in 4er q its another story.

 

the problem is that after the burst u have to "hope" for krits. without krits ur dps will be very low.

Most shadow´s are full ap with verly low kritrating about 18-19 % double ap relic and hope to devaste people:-)

since a week i have switched to higher kritrating and lower ap with krit relic.

the matches feeling better. with proc from balance tier 1 and the relic i´m about 44% krit.

by 790 melee bonus dmg. So krits are not soooo high but still ok.

 

a way to higher dps. if u like.

but i doesnt fix the problem that we have when we are in focusfire :-)

 

The Jugg was guarding. But yes, if your burst doesn't crit that is a major setback. But the good thing about Recklessness is the fact that it isn't consumed unless you DO crit. So you will pretty much always without exception crit the second time around. That just delays the burst, it is never gone completely.

 

Aside from that, I've gotten numbers like theise in grouped 4v4 just as well. It all depends on the setup, the chain of events and the location you end up fighting in. But this is just one screenshot, of something I have done many times before.

 

Infiltration/Deception is ABSOLUTELY fine. People that don't think so need to take a look in the mirror.

 

 

Hell I already beat that 1420 by 30 dps again. What would happen if we actually get buffed.. 1500? 1550? 1600?

 

Hell those numbers I have NEVER seen anyone else do on ANY class ever before in arena.. That is absolutely insane.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Evolixe

[Evolixe]

ah jolly..don't talk with pvp players. It seems there is just pvp for them. rofl.

 

I simply don't care. I don't discredit it, or forget about it.. I simply don't have a voice for it.

[IInox]

I simply don't care. I don't discredit it, or forget about it.. I simply don't have a voice for it.

 

so shut up?

 

we are saying about PVE, on pvp there isn't a *really sustain*

 

We aren't saying that inf is bad. I'm good with it in pve but it's obv it needs a more *sustain*, do you know what is it?

 

I know inf is really good in pvp, thanks! it has a god burst dmg but boss fights aren't long 2mins.

[Evolixe]

so shut up?

 

we are saying about PVE, on pvp there isn't a *really sustain*

 

We aren't saying that inf is bad. I'm good with it in pve but it's obv it needs a more *sustain*, do you know what is it?

 

I know inf is really good in pvp, thanks! it has a god burst dmg but boss fights aren't long 2mins.

 

Uh I'm sorry, but this thread is talking about both aspects. You need to calm down and get off your high horse.

[mmerry]

I will have to start taking SS of my round 1,2,3 dps numbers. I have had quite a few full matches over 1k dps and my best was 1.2k or something. I will admit that before 2.4 I was kinda afraid that infil/decep would be **** in arenas compared to other classes, but I think we are ok now.

 

Also for what its worth, the op did mention both pve and pvp in his post so to claim that this thread is only about PVE is kind of absurd. Hell most of my team arena rounds against competent teams are going into the 4 minute range if we cant lolburst someone off the get go, so I think its fair to talk about sustain in terms of Pvp as well.

Edited October 21, 2013 by mmerry

[IInox]

infact but I'm not ignoring pvp I didint metion it cause we haven't problems on pvp.

[Jmenks]

I have no problem at all in pvp putting up 1k DPS in arenas and never running out of force. I do not even use saber strike lolol (in pve i do cause....pve is hard). If you're running out of force......stop unproc mauling and spamming stuff off cooldown and use an actual rotation . these buffs to deception aren't needed at all IMO.

[sithBracer]

Here is a suggestion (and please don't jump on me, it is just an opinion), How about reducing the cost of clairvoyant strike/voltic slash to 15 (and have it do less damage, it is dumb that it does more damage than double strike but costs the same force power) and have the pyrokinesis ability reduce the cost of both clairvoyant strike and project (thats voltic saber and shock I believe) by 2 (down from 3 for shock/project and up from 1 for clairvoyant strike/voltic slash). Now the sustained damage will be done by using 2 clairvoyant strikes (at lower damage) followed by project which will have it's cost lowered by the 2 clairvoyant strikes (along with adding clairvoyance but thats a different story). Right now CS is only used in preparation for project anyway as it doesn't do much damage and costs a lot of force.

[Aragost]

ah jolly..don't talk with pvp players. It seems there is just pvp for them. rofl.

 

And you pve people are expecting what, deception to give out the same type of sustained damage that a marauder can do? Which will come at the cost of our burst, making pvping as an assasin, terrible.

 

No thanks, leave deception as the burst spec, take madness for sustained.

[Evolixe]

And you pve people are expecting what, deception to give out the same type of sustained damage that a marauder can do? Which will come at the cost of our burst, making pvping as an assasin, terrible.

 

No thanks, leave deception as the burst spec, take madness for sustained.

 

This.

 

There just is no fair middle road where deception can get more sustained damage without overpowering or making it completely useless in PvP.

 

Burst has to be taken away in turn, or things would become ridiculous. But that burst is all that the class is build around on the PvP side of things right now.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Evolixe

[sithBracer]

This.

 

There just is no fair middle road where deception can get more sustained damage without overpowering or making it completely useless in PvP.

 

Burst has to be taken away in turn, or things would become ridiculous. But that burst is all that the class is build around on the PvP side of things right now.

 

What's wrong with my suggestion? Still keep burst and the sustained damage will work great in PvE and not affect PvP much. The reduced damage from clairvoyant strike will be made up with more bursts from project and maul since the chances of getting infiltration tactics would be higher and the receiving of clairvoyance. It would make the class burstier even.

Edited October 21, 2013 by sithBracer

[Evolixe]

What's wrong with my suggestion? Still keep burst and the sustained damage will work great in PvE and not affect PvP much. The reduced damage from clairvoyant strike will be made up with more bursts from project and maul since the chances of getting infiltration tactics would be higher and the receiving of clairvoyance. It would make the class burstier even.

 

More burst is an evil too.

 

And I just beat it again, 1490dps over 222k~ damage... sadly the screenshot didn't register :/

But yeah this class really doesn't need anything on deception. Any form of change will pack out bad for PvP.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Evolixe

[sithBracer]

More burst is an evil too.

 

And I just beat it again, 1490dps over 222k~ damage... sadly the screenshot didn't register :/

But yeah this class really doesn't need anything on deception. Any form of change will pack out bad for PvP.

 

grats, but I don't mean their burst will hurt more I mean more opportunity to burst and it will make up for the lower damage done by clairvoyant strike, but the combination of 2 CSs and the project will allow us to maintain sustained damage in PvE while not affecting PvP at all I think.

[IInox]

And you pve people are expecting what, deception to give out the same type of sustained damage that a marauder can do? Which will come at the cost of our burst, making pvping as an assasin, terrible.

 

No thanks, leave deception as the burst spec, take madness for sustained.

 

no, obv. It's RIGHT that mara and snipers does more dps.