The_Grand_Nagus Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 That game's crafting system was pretty robust. Yes it was. The most in depth I have ever seen. I truly have some fond memories of that game. Some bad ones too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silko Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Well, thats not exactly a "fair" comparison IMO, and there is why. As far as I know, SWG was built from the ground up to have the space system it had; it just wasnt ready for launch and was saved for its first expansion. On the other hand, I have read numerous statements from the dev team talking about how they designed TORs space game the way they did ON PURPOSE. Horrible decision, I know. But the point is, TOR's space game was not intended to be the free-flight system we are getting in the next expac. And because of that, it took significantly more work to convert it to what we're about to see. TLDR; its not that they couldnt have matched JTL, it is that they intentionally choose not to when developing the game. They didn't design the space program like this on purpose. The current space program was a last min thing when people asked them where is space during Beta. They didn't even think of having a space program until overwhelming demand forced their hand. Like many aspects in this game, poor thinking through lead to more development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambunctious Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 It remains to be seen for me. It depends on the flight characteristics, and the controls. I also don't like 3rd person view for space combat, and would like a first person view with radars, and a target reticule. If the flight characteristics aren't like JTL, XvT, and XWA, then I am not interested. I'm afraid it's going to handle like the rail version, and you can't make actual use of YPR stats. Like turning during a roll to take advantage of a superior pitch attribute, and speed affecting the rate of turn. Something that takes actual skill, and not just ship parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Grand_Nagus Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 They didn't design the space program like this on purpose. The current space program was a last min thing when people asked them where is space during Beta. They didn't even think of having a space program until overwhelming demand forced their hand. Like many aspects in this game, poor thinking through lead to more development. Whether that is the case or not, I'm just telling you what I have read(specifically, in the "Art and Making" of the game book). However, if what you say is true then that only proves my point, which was that while SWG was designed to have the kind of space game it did, TOR was not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamus_Divinus Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 If the flight characteristics aren't like JTL, XvT, and XWA, then I am not interested. I'm afraid it's going to handle like the rail version, and you can't make actual use of YPR stats. Like turning during a roll to take advantage of a superior pitch attribute, and speed affecting the rate of turn. Something that takes actual skill, and not just ship parts. Iirc XvT and XWA didn't have YPR stats and neither will this digital expansion. JTL had a level of complexity that won't be matched this time round. So it looks like 'Conflict Rising' will indeed mimic XvT and XWA in that department. JTL is one step too far right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korusus Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 It's not JTL. But it's also not a real expansion. Calling it an expansion is 100% a tactic to get people to resub to try it out (which I can sympathize with, I resubbed to try Oricon). My fear is that calling first Makeb and now Space PvP "expansions" has made the term nearly meaningless and also gives BioWare too much freedom to claim they've had expansions, when honestly they haven't yet announced or hinted at a real expansion to the game (one that would justify a 5 level increase with a brand new endgame). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambunctious Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Iirc XvT and XWA didn't have YPR stats and neither will this digital expansion. JTL had a level of complexity that won't be matched this time round. So it looks like 'Conflict Rising' will indeed mimic XvT and XWA in that department. JTL is one step too far right now. They did have YPR stats, and each ship slot could be modded with different stats. It's just that the player couldn't change anything from in game, but they could take advantage of them. A T/F could out turn a X-Wing, for example. The thing with XvT, and XWA was that they had a set throttle percentage for all ships that provided the best rate of turn, 33% throttle. With all blaster charging turned off, and at 33% throttle, you could turn a T/F so fast you could turn on a dime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamus_Divinus Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 They did have YPR stats, and each ship slot could be modded with different stats. It's just that the player couldn't change anything from in game, but they could take advantage of them. A T/F could out turn a X-Wing, for example. The thing with XvT, and XWA was that they had a set throttle percentage for all ships that provided the best rate of turn, 33% throttle. With all blaster charging turned off, and at 33% throttle, you could turn a T/F so fast you could turn on a dime. I stand corrected. After thousands of hours playing JTL it seems I 'forgot' the mechanics to my previous SW addictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Anyway you slice it the super secret space project that we all have been waiting on has turned out to be a lame MOBA, has expectations gotten so low that this is considered a win? I personally see this as a troubling sign for the future. Big improvement on the game seen as a huge negative? Par for the course on the SWTOR forums. If you want a space simulator then you have other options. This game is not, and will never be, a giant space simulator. That is not the product focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EATtheDEAD Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I remember when mmo's weren't just instanced mini games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I remember when mmo's weren't just instanced mini games. I recall that you have other options in MMO genre. If you want a hotdog, order a hotdog. Don't buy a hamburger and complain its not a hotdog. Point being, this product is a narrowly focused themepark, easy access MMO that is designed to be an experience as opposed to "building" an experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Big improvement on the game seen as a huge negative? Par for the course on the SWTOR forums. If you want a space simulator then you have other options. This game is not, and will never be, a giant space simulator. That is not the product focus. No one asked it to be a space simulator, this game also isn't a MOBA so why add one? Tacking on this type of niche content is bad design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 No one asked it to be a space simulator, this game also isn't a MOBA so why add one? Tacking on this type of niche content is bad design. I don't know...maybe it fitting the theme and experience of Star Wars. I have some awesome advice for you. You don't have to play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I don't know...maybe it fitting the theme and experience of Star Wars. I have some awesome advice for you. You don't have to play it. Which is the worst advice you can give to anyone actually, keep in mind that many of these Devs are the same devs from WAR and they are making the same mistakes...honestly I'm waiting for Biowares version of the "Re-enlisters" or "killing people in da face" campiagn. "You don't have to play it" was a comeback on their forums too.... By the way..where is WAR now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Grand_Nagus Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) No one asked it to be a space simulator, False. Some people have actually asked for a space sim, but most have not. But what MANY people have asked for is a free flight system for this STAR wars game. Thankfully, it is finally getting one. Edited October 10, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) Which is the worst advice you can give to anyone actually, keep in mind that many of these Devs are the same devs from WAR and they are making the same mistakes...honestly I'm waiting for Biowares version of the "Re-enlisters" or "killing people in da face" campiagn. "You don't have to play it" was a comeback on their forums too.... By the way..where is WAR now? Not sure what point you are making. If you don't like the PvP space combat....don't play it. How does making space combat have ANYTHING to do with WAR? And just for the record a few devs and project leaders from WAR have been on this game. Do you really think everyone on this team is from WAR? Again...your point makes no sense. WAR was a flawed game from the outset. This is an additional feature on an arguably successful NA game. Edited October 10, 2013 by Arkerus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phrase Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Don't care if it's not full JTL. Personally I can do w/o getting in my YE-4 and farming Scales for hours on end just to shave 200 mass or pick up .02 more on my VsS, or running Nym's over and over on throw away alts just for a shot at a high dmg Beamrail or a high TS QID. Never mind the 5 minute turn fights trying to get the one disabling shot on the other guy's engines. I do wish we had more variety and I'm glad to see what appears to be the Bomber/ Fighter/ Interceptor trinity. I'm curious how gear will work, esp. with the p2w loadouts on the cartel market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) Not sure what point you are making. If you don't like the PvP space combat....don't play it. How does making space combat have ANYTHING to do with WAR? And just for the record a few devs and project leaders from WAR have been on this game. Do you really think everyone on this team is from WAR? Again...your point makes no sense. WAR was a flawed game from the outset. This is an additional feature on an arguably successful NA game. /Agree. I really don't get the folks that bring out the "yeah.. but dev-a used to be on MMO-b" pejoratives. So what!? The genre is literally filled with people who have worked on multiple MMOs over time. MMO gigs are like just about every other job on the planet.... it's about what you are doing today.. not what you did yesterday. Edited October 10, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Grand_Nagus Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 /Agree. I really don't get the folks that bring out the "yeah.. but dev-a used to be on MMO-b" pejoratives. So what!? The genre is literally filled with people who have worked on multiple MMOs over time. MMO gigs are like just about every other job on the planet.... it's about what you are doing today.. not what you did yesterday. It depends on just how badly they may have messed up in the past. For example, I dont know what Julio Torres is up to these days, but as the unofficial , I certainly wouldnt be happy to see him join the TOR team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atim Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I never expected JTL (much as I'd have liked to seen that), but something along the lines of Battlefront's space combat would've been acceptable; which this sort of looks like, at least from what little I've seen so far. I'll agree that it's a good step in that space combat won't be a rail-shooter (means they do listen to us to some degree), but to be honest, this looks and sounds half-*****ed. There's a lot they could do with this system, and maybe they will over time, but at this point it'll probably have as much impact on my gameplay as the current system. That is, none. Wake me when it's more than just a Warzone in space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 No one asked it to be a space simulator, this game also isn't a MOBA so why add one? Tacking on this type of niche content is bad design. Adding content to a game is bad? I guess that explains why WoW stuck with raids and world pvp and has never added anything else pvp or pve-wise ever. I'm sure you'd have said adding Alterac Valley into WoW- a battleground which resembles an rts- was a poor decision because 'hurr durr, the game isn't an RTS'. Yet, AV was one of the best things to ever happen in that game. And good lord people; you've been asking for off rails space combat for years, and your first response is 'omg off rails space combat, worst thing ever!'. It's a bloody free expansion, that's rewarding subscribers with early access/other stuff. You people really will complain about virtually every single thing BW does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Grand_Nagus Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) And good lord people; you've been asking for off rails space combat for years, and your first response is 'omg off rails space combat, worst thing ever!'. It's a bloody free expansion, that's rewarding subscribers with early access/other stuff. You people really will complain about virtually every single thing BW does. What do you mean "you people"? Hardly anyone has actually said this xpac is bad. Some are disappointed in certain aspects to be sure, but "worst thing ever"? You are massively exaggerating the situation. Edited October 10, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Which is the worst advice you can give to anyone actually, keep in mind that many of these Devs are the same devs from WAR and they are making the same mistakes...honestly I'm waiting for Biowares version of the "Re-enlisters" or "killing people in da face" campiagn. "You don't have to play it" was a comeback on their forums too.... By the way..where is WAR now? WAR's been dead for years- after the initial exodus, there was no attempts to rethink their design and do things differently. That SWTOR was willing to go free to play when they saw problems, has released an expansion, has a new one in the works for space combat which has long been asked for, etc... this game isn't like WAR. But keep getting butthurt because someone told you 'you don't have to play it'. Guess which forums have that phrase more than any other when something happens some people make a fuss over? WoW and LoL. By the way, where are those games now? Oh right- top of their genres. What does that mean for SWTOR? Absolutely nothing, because it's a stupid argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexThomasG Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 If everyone wants pve space free flight content then how about downloading and playing STO which is actually free? Not that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Grand_Nagus Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) If everyone wants pve space free flight content then how about downloading and playing STO which is actually free? Not that hard. Heres an even easier option: use these forums as they are intended, and simply tell the devs that you would like to see that feature added Edited October 10, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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