Stop rewarding them for mediocrity

[ZETA_SCORPII]

I feel sorry for those who don't enjoy this game. If I didn't enjoy it I would simply stop playing.

[CosmicKat]

I think what is most unfortunate for players like the OP is that the market seems to be a success. That is rather inconvenient for someone that wants to extoll the evils of a market in an MMO.

 

Complaints, IMO, is what got us the market in the first place. I contend that this is exactly what casual players wanted, and casual players make the rules considering they are likely the majority playerbase.

 

There are aspects that are not particularly favorable with respect to the F2P/Market system in place, but adjustments are made here and there....and I think with time it will evolve into a positive system for game growth.

 

TOR is and always has been casual nirvana. I think their bigger issues stem from it attracting and retaining mostly only casuals. Cash shops do nothing for hard core or oldschool MMO players, most of them see its existence as a negative.

 

Holding on to what you have is one strategy, trying to expand the base is another. Sort of like deciding to play not to lose instead of playing to win.

[LordArtemis]

TOR is and always has been casual nirvana. I think their bigger issues stem from it attracting and retaining mostly only casuals. Cash shops do nothing for hard core or oldschool MMO players, most of them see its existence as a negative.

 

Holding on to what you have is one strategy, trying to expand the base is another. Sort of like deciding to play not to lose instead of playing to win.

 

I personally would argue against the "casual nirvana" point, only to say that though the game obviously had a casual draw (story, solo leveling, companion use, lack of punitive death cost) it failed to hold casuals due to a lack of RP support, emotes, day and night cycles, vibrant live open worlds, lack of appearance customization, housing, a market or a F2P model and alternative game play modes (with the exception of the space combat feature which was likely not well received).

 

This is entirely speculative naturally, but in my experience in a general sense this is what casual players look for in MMOs. Naturally they also look for easy travel and communication.

 

I would contend the game today is far more appealing to casual players than in the past.

[DarthDymond]

TOR is and always has been casual nirvana. I think their bigger issues stem from it attracting and retaining mostly only casuals. Cash shops do nothing for hard core or oldschool MMO players, most of them see its existence as a negative.

 

Holding on to what you have is one strategy, trying to expand the base is another. Sort of like deciding to play not to lose instead of playing to win.

I'm not 100% sure if I understand your point here with respect to Hardcore players and the Cash Shop, but I think it's one of two things:

1) It's all well and good that the Cash Shop is giving Casuals something they like, but the game should also be putting in effort to give content for Hardcore players to "expand the base".

-Given that there are two new Ops that are coming out in less than a week, and the new Arena system to revamp ranked PVP, it seems to me they are still putting out Hardcore content alongside the Casual-friendly stuff.

 

2)Cash shops are "seen as a negative" by Hardcore players, so they should be removed in order to attract those Hardcore players back to the game.

-This wouldn't be "playing to win" this would be playing to lose on EA/BW's part. For every individual Hardcore player who would regard the game more favorably if the Cash Shop were taken out, there would be several Casual players who would find the game less enjoyable without them. "Expanding your base" only works if you don't alienate so many of your existing customers that it completely offsets the gains you make elsewhere, which is exactly what would happen if they removed Casual features to appeal to Hardcore players.

[mmjarec]

I'm not 100% sure if I understand your point here with respect to Hardcore players and the Cash Shop, but I think it's one of two things:

1) It's all well and good that the Cash Shop is giving Casuals something they like, but the game should also be putting in effort to give content for Hardcore players to "expand the base".

-Given that there are two new Ops that are coming out in less than a week, and the new Arena system to revamp ranked PVP, it seems to me they are still putting out Hardcore content alongside the Casual-friendly stuff.

 

2)Cash shops are "seen as a negative" by Hardcore players, so they should be removed in order to attract those Hardcore players back to the game.

-This wouldn't be "playing to win" this would be playing to lose on EA/BW's part. For every individual Hardcore player who would regard the game more favorably if the Cash Shop were taken out, there would be several Casual players who would find the game less enjoyable without them. "Expanding your base" only works if you don't alienate so many of your existing customers that it completely offsets the gains you make elsewhere, which is exactly what would happen if they removed Casual features to appeal to Hardcore players.

 

If they wouldnt do things to make ppl leave they would have enough subs to not need a cash shop. Most everything can be bought so why raid for the few things that cant? Its not time efficient to raid

[CosmicKat]

I personally would argue against the "casual nirvana" point, only to say that though the game obviously had a casual draw (story, solo leveling, companion use, lack of punitive death cost) it failed to hold casuals due to a lack of RP support, emotes, day and night cycles, vibrant live open worlds, lack of appearance customization, housing, a market or a F2P model and alternative game play modes (with the exception of the space combat feature which was likely not well received).

 

This is entirely speculative naturally, but in my experience in a general sense this is what casual players look for in MMOs. Naturally they also look for easy travel and communication.

 

I would contend the game today is far more appealing to casual players than in the past.

 

Well other than the F2P option, I'd say everything you mentioned appeals far more to hardcore MMO players than to casual ones. I suppose it depends on your definitions of both. To me, I think of "casuals" as people who are "just playing a game" for an hour here or there, and hard cores as people intending to remain in a game for the long term or indefinitely.

 

TOR's design has always favoured that more "casual" fan of the game/genre.

[CosmicKat]

I'm not 100% sure if I understand your point here with respect to Hardcore players and the Cash Shop, but I think it's one of two things:

1) It's all well and good that the Cash Shop is giving Casuals something they like, but the game should also be putting in effort to give content for Hardcore players to "expand the base".

-Given that there are two new Ops that are coming out in less than a week, and the new Arena system to revamp ranked PVP, it seems to me they are still putting out Hardcore content alongside the Casual-friendly stuff.

 

2)Cash shops are "seen as a negative" by Hardcore players, so they should be removed in order to attract those Hardcore players back to the game.

-This wouldn't be "playing to win" this would be playing to lose on EA/BW's part. For every individual Hardcore player who would regard the game more favorably if the Cash Shop were taken out, there would be several Casual players who would find the game less enjoyable without them. "Expanding your base" only works if you don't alienate so many of your existing customers that it completely offsets the gains you make elsewhere, which is exactly what would happen if they removed Casual features to appeal to Hardcore players.

 

What I mean is...

 

The 75% who quit are likely either people who are extremely casual MMO players who would have left anyway, or they are more hardcore MMO players who find the game lacking on many fronts. They ignored entirely the oldschool MMO player in the game design and catered to the casual... and it didn't work. Doubling down on it isn't exactly a recipe for success.

[Lenlo]

Bioware takes their marching orders from EA. Blaming Bioware is essentially useless as theyre pretty much just a sticker to put on a game to entice people.

[Tachenko_Yuri]

Those of us that enjoy the game have been asking you this question for almost two years now.

Why DO you pay them, then?

The answer is always something that ranges from irrelevant to idiotic.

 

Go find another MMO, that doesn't have glitched armor sets or bugs.

 

thank you for saving me to type an answer to OP

[Laris_Rai]

In my one month of experiencing this game, it has been no different.

 

And right this is all the reason I need to laugh at you for trying to talk big.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Cash shops do nothing for hard core or oldschool MMO players,

 

Good that you didn't mention oldschool RPG players - because they are nowadays heading towards MMX ...

Edited September 26, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[mmjarec]

If they would impliment the policy of having abilities doing differe t things in pvp and pve balance would be easier. Im not talking drastic but minor. Atm balance is my only concern because without it nothing else matters. No matter how far

[sinnaman]

"As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs wanna see

How much you'll pay for what you used to get for free."

 

-Tom Petty "The Last D.J."

[branmakmuffin]

If they wouldnt do things to make ppl leave they would have enough subs to not need a cash shop. Most everything can be bought so why raid for the few things that cant? Its not time efficient to raid

Presumably you raid because it's fun, not because it's "efficient."

[CosmicKat]

Good that you didn't mention oldschool RPG players - because they are nowadays heading towards MMX ...

 

It's been at least 10 years since any major publisher made an oldschool RPG. The last one I can recall is Temple of Elemental Evil.

 

If generous you could call Dragon Age: Origins an RPG that sought to mimic an oldschool RPG but the real time combat kind of destroyed it's RPG cred, IMO.

 

Most of the oldschool RPG fans I know now look to "strategy" games like X-Com for their RPG fix.

[LordArtemis]

I personally define hardcore and casual in this way....

 

Casual: Cares most about story content, alternate gameplay aspects, convenience, QoL. Does not care about gear, end game, PVP.

Hardcore: Cares most about endgame, gear, end game, PVP. Does not care about alternate gameplay aspects, convenience, QoL or story content.

 

Simply put, Hardcores care about gear and reward. Casuals care about the experience and the world.

 

Hardcores tend to be the minority in modern MMOs, but are the most loyal players. Casuals tend to be the vast majority, but are also very fickle and transient IMO.

 

Most MMOs have realized that the Hardcore base is vanishing, moving on to more hardcore games and leaving the MMO market, and now are depending on casuals. Therefore that is becoming the focus IMO.

 

So, if you care about reward, gear, rank....you are hardcore. If you care more about experience, the world you play in...you are casual. How much you play makes no difference in your classification IMO.

[Arkerus]

It's been at least 10 years since any major publisher made an oldschool RPG. The last one I can recall is Temple of Elemental Evil.

 

If generous you could call Dragon Age: Origins an RPG that sought to mimic an oldschool RPG but the real time combat kind of destroyed it's RPG cred, IMO.

 

Most of the oldschool RPG fans I know now look to "strategy" games like X-Com for their RPG fix.

 

And that means what for us here? I'm old school so kind of shoots your idea in the foot.

 

If you are so old school you can't adapt to new products then go get some paper and pens, call up a dungeon master, and cast lighting.

[Rafaman]

And that means what for us here? I'm old school so kind of shoots your idea in the foot.

 

If you are so old school you can't adapt to new products then go get some paper and pens, call up a dungeon master, and cast lighting.

 

Heh the old school argument about strategy. I'm old school too, and I used to feel the same way. At the beginning of an encounter I wanted to set my strategy assign roles, attacks then execute and pause to reset again.

 

But what I've learned is that old school has it wrong. They think that new schools is just spamming buttons in real time, but in certain games it is not. Strategy is even more appealing and more immersive in real time. You have to think on the fly. You see the attacks in real time and counter. You know what you can let go and what to interrupt, you use your companions to do x, y, and z, and work of that, in real time. It takes brains, skill and coordination.

 

You adapt and guess what? The games are more immersive, more challenging, and still cerebral. The old school needs to grow up.