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Zenocyde

By Zenocyde
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michaelsith

michaelsith

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Ryz consider changing the rules with the new dummies and class changes. My vote is set the health of the dummy to 1 million, no armor rend, fastest time gets recorded with DPS at the time of the kill.

 

/agree

 

one thing would be: how would you know if they put an armor rend on it though?

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countpopeula

countpopeula

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/agree

 

one thing would be: how would you know if they put an armor rend on it though?

 

Screenshot with server time. If it doesn't match the parse time it doesn't count. Screenshot has to be taken during combat, I'm sure that players good enough to post highs are good enough to keybind screenshot to something convenient like spacebar. Or just be honest? Wait, no, that's asking way too much of people.

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Zalindae

Zalindae

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I'd say set up a separate bracket for the 1 mil dps parses. That way people can choose traditional or the new stuff or both. I think screenshots and timestamps are a bit much. Does it not show on the parse log the armor rend debuff? If it cannot be calculated out, then I say up it to 1.5 mil and just have everyone use the armor rend debuff. Then you can just assume everyone has it on instead of guessing if they don't have it applied.

 

My two cents.

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Keypek

Keypek

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Yeah the new dummies will change a few things. If you go 1.5 million health that'll help execute specs over non-execute specs since they'll have more hitpoints under 30% to eat through. Not sure in the long run how much of a difference that'd make. Did a full VG assault spec on a 1.5 mil dummy with 20% debuff and was getting 3200 dps thanks to burnout on that last 450,000 health and debuff.
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vdbswong

vdbswong

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Yeah the new dummies will change a few things. If you go 1.5 million health that'll help execute specs over non-execute specs since they'll have more hitpoints under 30% to eat through. Not sure in the long run how much of a difference that'd make. Did a full VG assault spec on a 1.5 mil dummy with 20% debuff and was getting 3200 dps thanks to burnout on that last 450,000 health and debuff.

 

The effect on actual dps won't mean a thing, you say that execute specs have an advantage because they'll have more HP under 30% to chew through, but you seem to forget that you can flip it around and say that non-execute specs will have the advantage because they'll have more HP over 30% to chew through.

 

In terms of DPS, the different HP dummies should have no effect apart from helping even out RNG from crit rolls as it's over a longer time. Not enough to eliminate RNG, but it'll help smooth it out.

 

i.e. On both dummies, classes will be doing non-execute DPS for 71% of the fight and execute DPS for 29% of the fight... it all maths out to the same DPS value in the end.

 

Unless you're trying to emulate what Ranick was saying in the other thread, which wasn't related to DPS, but TTK and the use of Time as an absolute measure, which is a different argument altogether.

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Keypek

Keypek

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The effect on actual dps won't mean a thing, you say that execute specs have an advantage because they'll have more HP under 30% to chew through, but you seem to forget that you can flip it around and say that non-execute specs will have the advantage because they'll have more HP over 30% to chew through.

 

In terms of DPS, the different HP dummies should have no effect apart from helping even out RNG from crit rolls as it's over a longer time. Not enough to eliminate RNG, but it'll help smooth it out.

 

i.e. On both dummies, classes will be doing non-execute DPS for 71% of the fight and execute DPS for 29% of the fight... it all maths out to the same DPS value in the end.

 

Unless you're trying to emulate what Ranick was saying in the other thread, which wasn't related to DPS, but TTK and the use of Time as an absolute measure, which is a different argument altogether.

 

I don't know what you're trying to say. TTK is directly related to dps since the quicker you kill something the more damage you are doing in that time so the lower ttk the higher the dps. Which I'd think is a better representation of killing a boss or general pve dps which is all I care about. Wasn't saying execute specs had an advantage just that it was better represented on the new dummies.

 

But my main point was VG assault is getting about 300 more dps on the new dummies than I was on the old dummies no matter the length of the fight which makes it look a little less awful..

Edited by Keypek
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vdbswong

vdbswong

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I don't know what you're trying to say. TTK is directly related to dps since the quicker you kill something the more damage you are doing in that time so the lower ttk the higher the dps. Which I'd think is a better representation of killing a boss or general pve dps which is all I care about. Wasn't saying execute specs had an advantage just that it was better represented on the new dummies.

 

But my main point was VG assault is getting about 300 more dps on the new dummies than I was on the old dummies no matter the length of the fight which makes it look a little less awful..

 

It was related to the discussion that's going on in the DPS Leaderboard thread in the general forums.

 

Yes, TTK and DPS are basically inverse functions of each other, but in the game, time is an absolute value, so whereas the jump from a 100s TTK -> 90s TTK is only an 11% DPS increase, but when you scale up time to say 300s TTK and 270s TTK is still just a 11% DPS increase, but as a representation of killing a boss, ±30s can mean the difference between hitting/fighting an enrage timer.

 

Now on the flipside, i don't really understand what you're trying to say?

 

So Execute specs won't have an advantage, but going to a 1.5mil dummy will "help them" and will be "better represented"? Unless you're not talking about the debate between the 1mil or 1.5mil hp dummies and are just chiming in on a separate note between the invulnerable dummies, HP dummies and being able to have an execute phase.

 

Regardless, imo the best "representation" of DPS is what they're discussing on the other thread with regards to generating a TTK and then from that reverse-calculating DPS. Mainly because that *is* DPS, rather than a way to translate DPS (as in, if you left it in TTK format). Specific details as what HP dummy, debuffs and minimum time limit can be quibbled away.

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Keypek

Keypek

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It was related to the discussion that's going on in the DPS Leaderboard thread in the general forums.

 

Yes, TTK and DPS are basically inverse functions of each other, but in the game, time is an absolute value, so whereas the jump from a 100s TTK -> 90s TTK is only an 11% DPS increase, but when you scale up time to say 300s TTK and 270s TTK is still just a 11% DPS increase, but as a representation of killing a boss, ±30s can mean the difference between hitting/fighting an enrage timer.

 

Now on the flipside, i don't really understand what you're trying to say?

 

So Execute specs won't have an advantage, but going to a 1.5mil dummy will "help them" and will be "better represented"? Unless you're not talking about the debate between the 1mil or 1.5mil hp dummies and are just chiming in on a separate note between the invulnerable dummies, HP dummies and being able to have an execute phase.

 

Regardless, imo the best "representation" of DPS is what they're discussing on the other thread with regards to generating a TTK and then from that reverse-calculating DPS. Mainly because that *is* DPS, rather than a way to translate DPS (as in, if you left it in TTK format). Specific details as what HP dummy, debuffs and minimum time limit can be quibbled away.

 

Yeah you obviously care about this more than I do so I'm sure whatever your point is is right lol. Don't know what other thread you're talking about. I was simply saying the new dummies are nice for execute classes to better represent their dps in a timed fight so having new parses with them would be nice.

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unclefortyoz

unclefortyoz

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Sooo... we ever figure out what we wanna do here? I think Ryz is away for finals or something but we could still upload parses, I have a bunch that I have done past few days w/ armor debuff, w/out, 1 million dmg, 1.5 million dmg. I honestly think the armor debuff doesn't work because I have 2 very similar parses, one with and one without, within 4 dps of each other (the higher being w/out). Its just a hunch though, will have to test further. Still, I need to know what to upload on here :p

 

edit- OH and also, the armor debuff is detectable in combat log on torparse. Just have to open log view under where you chose analytical or log, and if you arent linked to it, there is a link for it at the top of the page under analytical. Log line reads something like "Abdi activates Shattered Armor"

 

Also, in no way am I expecting any of these to be considered yet, only saying lets check out the data while we figure out what we are using. I'm really digging the hp buffs to the dummies, it simulates execute range better and ends combat instantly when the dummy "dies".

 

Either way here's a few parses, statistics next to the links

3521.68, 1 million Dmg Dummy, With Armor Debuff http://www.torparse.com/a/517248

3458.44, Reg 5 min parse, No Armor Debuff http://www.torparse.com/a/510476

3454.62, 1 Million Dmg Dummy, With Armor Debuff http://www.torparse.com/a/514329

Edited by unclefortyoz
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Zenocyde

Zenocyde

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Sooo... we ever figure out what we wanna do here? I think Ryz is away for finals or something but we could still upload parses, I have a bunch that I have done past few days w/ armor debuff, w/out, 1 million dmg, 1.5 million dmg. I honestly think the armor debuff doesn't work because I have 2 very similar parses, one with and one without, within 4 dps of each other (the higher being w/out). Its just a hunch though, will have to test further. Still, I need to know what to upload on here :p

 

edit- OH and also, the armor debuff is detectable in combat log on torparse. Just have to open log view under where you chose analytical or log, and if you arent linked to it, there is a link for it at the top of the page under analytical. Log line reads something like "Abdi activates Shattered Armor"

 

Also, in no way am I expecting any of these to be considered yet, only saying lets check out the data while we figure out what we are using. I'm really digging the hp buffs to the dummies, it simulates execute range better and ends combat instantly when the dummy "dies".

 

Either way here's a few parses, statistics next to the links

3521.68, 1 million Dmg Dummy, With Armor Debuff http://www.torparse.com/a/517248

3458.44, Reg 5 min parse, No Armor Debuff http://www.torparse.com/a/510476

3454.62, 1 Million Dmg Dummy, With Armor Debuff http://www.torparse.com/a/514329

 

the armor debuff would give you a better parse hands down, in theory if you were to use the exact same rotation 2000 times all at 5 minute parses, 1000 with the armor debuff, 1000 without, you'll see that the ones with the armor debuff have better parses. the fact that those parses were 4 apart was just chance.

 

 

 

Dear everyone, ill be changing the rules so that if you wish to edit the dummy, by all means, go ahead, so long as the fight is 300 seconds or longer, i don't mind.

 

 

as far as the dummy races goes.. ...no, i don't wish to spend even more of my free time making sure that the combats check out. if you would like to start a new thread just for that, idgaf ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

 

also, yes its finals week and my brain = mush

Edited by Zenocyde
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unclefortyoz

unclefortyoz

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Posted (edited)

No biggie lol, I'll be making more. Was just following that other thread (the world one in raid stuff forum) and started doing what they were doing. Looks like I'll be using the 1.5 mil dummy to get a minimum of 5 min parse lol. Preparing my **** for the rng gods now.....

 

Here it is, not quite as high but over 3500. Have fun mikey! http://www.torparse.com/a/519125

Edited by unclefortyoz
new parse, didnt want to make a new post XD
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