Would you accept no voiceovers if it meant more frequent content?

[Arkerus]

I don't have to.

 

One hour of finished voice contains ~10,000 words. You can order it for a cost ranging from $50-$200 for bare-bone minimum to $500 for average game voiceover to $1,000 broadcast grade, the work you hear in TV documentaries. It can gets higher for movies and commercials that go through dozens of take to get it just perfect. SWTOR's voice work is decidedly not there, but it's better than your average game, generally broadcast grade.

 

These are turnkey prices to order it. Turnkey prices are always higher than costs for in-house production. For a company like Bioware with its own studios in property and sound engineers on annual salary, the costs, especially marginal costs, are considerably lower.

 

And even if they weren't lower and VA work was ordered turnkey, it's still peanuts compared to proper gamedev expenses for an AAA game like this.

 

You can't show facts to most folks here. They don't like them. Good luck man.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Arkerus

[The_Grand_Nagus]

I don't have to.

 

One hour of finished voice contains ~10,000 words. You can order it for a cost ranging from $50-$200 for bare-bone minimum to $500 for average game voiceover to $1,000 broadcast grade, the work you hear in TV documentaries. It can gets higher for movies and commercials that go through dozens of take to get it just perfect. SWTOR's voice work is decidedly not there, but it's better than your average game, generally broadcast grade.

 

These are turnkey prices to order it. Turnkey prices are always higher than costs for in-house production. For a company like Bioware with its own studios in property and sound engineers on annual salary, the costs, especially marginal costs, are considerably lower.

 

And even if they weren't lower and VA work was ordered turnkey, it's still peanuts compared to proper gamedev expenses for an AAA game like this.

 

This one statement discredited your entire post. All of what you think you know about the price of voice acting is well and good. But you honestly have absolutely no idea how many takes Bioware does to "get it right". If you think you do, then post a link showing that information. But that is just a rhetorical statement, because I know you dont. And this just goes to show that you will completely fabricate things to try to prove your point, making everything you say invalid.

Edited September 20, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus

[hadoken]

I think a more honest question would be would you accept less complicated quests and story if it meant more frequent content.

 

Because the time isn't in the voice production, it's in the writing and coming up with all the choices you make (what your character 'says' on paper) as you progress through the conversation. On top of that what companions gain/lose affection and any light/dark side choices. All that stuff, the real meat of the quest system in this game, is what takes a while. The voice is icing, and the devs have said as much.

 

And this is why they're not doing class specific quests anymore. Not because of the voices (obviously, as they got those voices back for Makeb), but for the production work.

Edited September 20, 2013 by hadoken

[The_Grand_Nagus]

I think a more honest question would be would you accept less complicated quests and story if it meant more frequent content.

 

There are 3 issues at play here:

 

A) Time

 

B) Money

 

C) Manpower

 

If VO's went away, then the money that is spent on them would be spent elsewhere. If that money could be used to increase manpower in the content production department, then that could increase the speed of content production.

Edited September 20, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus

[hadoken]

If VO's went away, then the money that is spent on them would be spent elsewhere. If that money could be used to increase manpower in the content production department, then that could increase the speed of content production.

 

Could. Or they could already be using as many people as it takes with the tools they have to create the content for all anyone knows. Too many ifs when they've already come out and said that voiceovers are not a significant cost/factor in this.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

Too many ifs when they've already come out and said that voiceovers are not a significant cost/factor in this.

 

Two points:

 

1) James Ohlen said that the VO cost was low in comparison to the overall cost, but he was talking about the initial development budget of the game, which quite frankly was astronomical. There was a lot of chatter about it being the highest budgeted MMO ever made. So when you are comparing VO cost to a number that high, sure it is low.

 

However, a game's standard operating budget after launch is much less than its initial development budget. That is why most studios lay off parts of the development team, which we know Bioware did. So while we know that the VO cost was low in comparison to the huge initial development budget, we have absolutely no idea how low it is in comparison to the current operating budget.

 

2) Of course there are a lot of "if"s, and I never claimed to know any of the specifics for certain. That is why the question posed in the OP is hypothetical. And the conditions of that hypothetical question are, "Would you accept less VO's IF it meant more frequent content?". Notice the key word. No one is saying for certain whether it would or not, only IF.

[hadoken]

Two points:

 

1) James Ohlen said that the VO cost was low in comparison to the overall cost, but he was talking about the initial development budget of the game, which quite frankly was astronomical. There was a lot of chatter about it being the highest budgeted MMO ever made. So when you are comparing VO cost to a number that high, sure it is low.

 

However, a game's standard operating budget after launch is much less than its initial development budget. That is why most studios lay off parts of the development team, which we know Bioware did. So while we know that the VO cost was low in comparison to the huge initial development budget, we have absolutely no idea how low it is in comparison to the current operating budget.

 

2) Of course there are a lot of "if"s, and I never claimed to know any of the specifics for certain. That is why the question posed in the OP is hypothetical. And the conditions of that hypothetical question are, "Would you accept less VO's IF it meant more frequent content?". Notice the key word. No one is saying for certain whether it would or not, only IF.

 

You're obviously missing the rest of that quote:

 

"Don't be scared about adding voice over and cool cinematic content," he advised his audience, "but do be careful about adding lots of choice with consequence because that adds to QA cost and development cost and makes it hard to design everything."

[The_Grand_Nagus]

You're obviously missing the rest of that quote:

 

Nope, I read the entire article

[hadoken]

Nope, I read the entire article

 

Ah, then you just don't understand it. Gotcha.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

Ah, then you just don't understand it. Gotcha.

 

On the contrary. It just has nothing to do with either of the two points in my previous post

[ImperialSun]

Two points:

 

1) James Ohlen said that the VO cost was low in comparison to the overall cost, but he was talking about the initial development budget of the game, which quite frankly was astronomical. There was a lot of chatter about it being the highest budgeted MMO ever made. So when you are comparing VO cost to a number that high, sure it is low.

 

However, a game's standard operating budget after launch is much less than its initial development budget. That is why most studios lay off parts of the development team, which we know Bioware did. So while we know that the VO cost was low in comparison to the huge initial development budget, we have absolutely no idea how low it is in comparison to the current operating budget.

 

2) Of course there are a lot of "if"s, and I never claimed to know any of the specifics for certain. That is why the question posed in the OP is hypothetical. And the conditions of that hypothetical question are, "Would you accept less VO's IF it meant more frequent content?". Notice the key word. No one is saying for certain whether it would or not, only IF.

 

One point.

 

That is not what James Olen said. You have twisted it to suit your stance. What he actually said was:

 

"[Voice acting] was a known entity, and cost was quite low in comparison to the cost of the rest of the project."

 

Notice - he does not state in comparison to the "overall" project at all and your assertion he was referencing the initial development budget in totality is pure conjecture on your part.

 

For example, I interpret his statement of "in comparison to the cost of the rest of the project" as meaning VO was not expensive in comparison to all of the other components associated with the project.

 

Driz

[The_Grand_Nagus]

One point.

 

That is not what James Olen said. You have twisted it to suit your stance. What he actually said was:

 

"[Voice acting] was a known entity, and cost was quite low in comparison to the cost of the rest of the project."

 

Notice - he does not state in comparison to the "overall" project at all and your assertion he was referencing the initial development budget in totality is pure conjecture on your part.

 

For example, I interpret his statement of "in comparison to the cost of the rest of the project" as meaning VO was not expensive in comparison to all of the other components associated with the project.

 

Driz

 

I didnt twist anything. If you look at the actual context of that statement and his others at that particular part of the article, you can see he was talking about the pre launch development of the game. But you have the right to ignore that context if that makes you feel better

Edited September 20, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus

[AlixMV]

Would you accept no voiceovers if it meant more frequent content?

 

No.

 

No voice acting is fine for things like Dailies that you're grinding out, well, every day and just want to speed through it. They're realizing that's what people wanted and dropping cut-scene quest giving after Ilum (Section X Black Hole, Makeb, and now CZ-198) was spot on.

 

But for everything else--I want my cutscenes. I'm playing a game that has video and a story, I want movies and voices.

 

If I wanted wall o' text, I'd go back to MUDs.

[Heal-To-Full]

This one statement discredited your entire post. All of what you think you know about the price of voice acting is well and good. But you honestly have absolutely no idea how many takes Bioware does to "get it right".

These are turnkey prices for voice already done right.

$500~$1,000 per hour is not cost per hour-long recording session, but for an hour of finished audio delivered to the customer.

 

SWTOR is not Mass Effect; with the exception of key elements of class stories its voice acting is above average, but nothing more.

If you want links, I could give them, but it seems like you've switched on the offensive anyway.

 

 

If VO's went away, then the money that is spent on them would be spent elsewhere.

FOR INSTANCE, it could go straight to EA's bottom line, be paid out as shareholder dividends, and spent by shareholders on various useful things. Which is what would most likely happen.

 

SWTOR isn't some non-profit operating to a strict margin of zero. They don't develop new content because they have cash to spare and must spend it. They make new content it because they believe it will bring them more money than it costs to make.

If the dev team needs more money, the company will spend more money; it's not exactly struggling. If the dev team cuts saves some money, good for the company and good for their shareholders.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

If you want links, I could give them, but it seems like you've switched on the offensive anyway.

 

Actually yes, I would love to see a link where it shows that Bioware does not do multiple takes like you claimed earlier:

 

It can gets higher for movies and commercials that go through dozens of take to get it just perfect. SWTOR's voice work is decidedly not there, but it's better than your average game, generally broadcast grade.

 

Unless you have such a link, then that means you are simply fabricating information to try to support your argument, which discredits everything you have said.

[Heal-To-Full]

Actually yes, I would love to see a link where it shows that Bioware does not do multiple takes like you claimed earlier

What makes you think they don't do multiple takes when necessary? For key elements of class stories, they certainly do, so no such link could exist. And not every line comes out right, so there have to be second takes.

 

Even all that in mind, $500-$1,000 is the typical price range quoted for game audio. Most of the game's 200,000 lines had to be done to industry standard practices.

 

For my quote that it can get higher for movies and commercials because of the number of takes, yes. They'll re-record the voice for national TV commercials till everyone's satisfied it can't get any better. When you're paying 100k+ to broadcast your one-minute clip, you don't want to skimp on audio. This would look like very high price per hour ratio, largely because there isn't an hour there. As for movies, big budgets and competition to be the best.

 

 

 

Regardless, though, counting Bioware's money as a consumer is a hollow exercise. It's a big company that doesn't live paycheck to paycheck. If they save money on voice acting, it's simply going toward their bottom line.

 

There's no more specific reason to spend it on SWTOR than there is to spend it on Mass Effect [next], Dragon Age Inquisition, any unannounced projects or new office furniture. If the players eat it up without VA, they'll get it without VA and the game's profit margin improves a little bit - that's all.

 

Don't trust me? Look at Blizzard. They've made billions off a game that didn't cost a lot to make or maintain. They could easily afford to roll out expansion-sized amounts of content every month. So do they? No.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Heal-To-Full

[The_Grand_Nagus]

What makes you think they don't do multiple takes when necessary?

 

Nothing makes *me* think it. But apparently something makes *you* think it, since that is what you said earlier:

 

It can gets higher for movies and commercials that go through dozens of take to get it just perfect. SWTOR's voice work is decidedly not there, but it's better than your average game, generally broadcast grade.

 

Of course, now you are changing your tune...

 

For key elements of class stories, they certainly do, so no such link could exist. And not every line comes out right, so there have to be second takes.