Would you accept no voiceovers if it meant more frequent content?

[HoboWithAStick]

This thread is very misleading.

 

The OP is stating as fact that the voice overs are what makes content take so long to come out when this may not be true at all. While I'm not saying it makes it go any faster I'm pretty sure that its not the reason why things take so long.

[Marb]

So basically they spent more money to modify an already crap engine to make it run in a way it wasnt designed to instead of using a cheaper engine with functionality. Why again did they do this?

 

Bioware used an early internal version of the Hero engine to get started right away. Adding in support for critical mmo features to the version of the engine they had was costly and time consuming. I'm sure later versions of the engine weren't anywhere near as bare-bones: http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/heroengine-meets-starwars/

 

During all of this though, they had little contact with the people who built the engine, so it would be unfair to shove the blame on the engine itself, considering it wasn't even a finished version they decided to work with. Bioware made a bad call, but it was a long time ago, and now they are stuck with the engine, possibly with few people left in the studio who have specialized knowledge about it's quirks from pre-launch. The engine is genuinely responsible for some issues, but I don't think slower content roll-out is one of them. That would be more to do with the smaller team-size working within a budget. They have to prioritize stuff (cartel market ).

Edited September 18, 2013 by Marb

[mmjarec]

Already crap engine?

 

Unqualified statement.

 

Way it wasn't designed to?

 

Unqualified statement

 

Instead of using a cheaper engine with functionality?

 

Assumption with unqualified statement

 

Nk actually they are all facts

 

It was designed for single player

 

They could have licensed one like unreal cheaper

 

So its a single player engine forced to do an mmo. So it has zero upgradeability

 

These are all from bioware not me. So bioware is unqualified according to you. These are facts to anyone with a smidgen of objectivity

[Aries_cz]

Is there any indication that voice acting has any kind of significant impact on the speed of content? In other words, I'm not getting the point of this topic. The only comment I can recall is one that specifically states that voice acting is not as expensive as people think.

 

I don't think dailies or every single side quest needs to be voiced, but I don't think quests being voiced or not really has any kind of substantive impact.

 

This. VOs are minor time consuming part, probably done parallel to creating the maps and stuff for the content. it is not like they first make script, then they make maps then they create voices then they test it. Testing and QA are the most time and money consuming parts of development.

[mmjarec]

This. VOs are minor time consuming part, probably done parallel to creating the maps and stuff for the content. it is not like they first make script, then they make maps then they create voices then they test it. Testing and QA are the most time and money consuming parts of development.

 

Any amount of time taken away from other development functions to add voice is too much imo. Be it ten hours or ten days. Its too long when you could be adding real contet that players dont skip

[Heal-To-Full]

Any amount of time taken away from other development functions to add voice is too much imo. Be it ten hours or ten days. Its too long when you could be adding real contet that players dont skip

If this game was voiced by programmers and modellers, it would sound very different.

 

"Erm... yeah, so I need you to, eh, bring me back, erm, two stacks of revanite compound, so, oh, good luck!

[mmjarec]

If this game was voiced by programmers and modellers, it would sound very different.

 

"Erm... yeah, so I need you to, eh, bring me back, erm, two stacks of revanite compound, so, oh, good luck!

Thats why i would prefer just reading text

[Aries_cz]

Any amount of time taken away from other development functions to add voice is too much imo. Be it ten hours or ten days. Its too long when you could be adding real contet that players dont skip

 

Yeah, unless you noticed, the VOs are in most cases not done by development staff (some might be, but very few). They are done by actors and other voice artists. And it is probably coordinated by that part of development team that is responsible for sounds. You know, the guys who do not understand how to write code, create graphics or test the game?

Also, I suggest you look up what parallel means.

[DKNS]

Thats why i would prefer just reading text

 

Can you just stop please? It's obvious that almost half of the people want VO (including me), go look at your damned poll for proof. You can not neglect half of your population just because you don't want it. It has already been said by several posters that BW themselves said that VO aren't the time/money consuming part for new content. So, why are we still having this conversation seriously? Half of the people want it and removing it isn't gonna speed up content updates (which already come out at a decent rate).

 

Can someone just close this please?

Edited September 18, 2013 by DKNS

[mmjarec]

Yeah, unless you noticed, the VOs are in most cases not done by development staff (some might be, but very few). They are done by actors and other voice artists. And it is probably coordinated by that part of development team that is responsible for sounds. You know, the guys who do not understand how to write code, create graphics or test the game?

Also, I suggest you look up what parallel means.

 

Just because i have a different opinion im somehow an idiot? Maybee you should look up sociopath

Because i dont want voiceovers how does that make me an idiot again?

[DKNS]

Just because i have a different opinion im somehow an idiot? Maybee you should look up sociopath

Because i dont want voiceovers how does that make me an idiot again?

 

You are an idiot (which you are claiming yourself, not me or anyone) because you are crying over something which doesn't influence what the OP wanted (faster content) even though there are equal number of people who are in support of it.

Edited September 18, 2013 by DKNS

[Aries_cz]

Just because i have a different opinion im somehow an idiot? Maybee you should look up sociopath

Because i dont want voiceovers how does that make me an idiot again?

 

I never wrote that you were an idiot. You somehow made that assumption (how you arrived that that conclusion is beyond me).

I simply attempted (in vain, apparently) to explain to you that people making the sounds are very different from people that balance classes, create new maps etc, which you seem to not understand.

Also, I did attempt to enlighten you what parallel means. It means that several things are happening simultaneously, so making sounds does not mean that all work on new content is halted, and making new content does not mean that class balancing stops.

[mmjarec]

I never wrote that you were an idiot. You somehow made that assumption (how you arrived that that conclusion is beyond me).

I simply attempted (in vain, apparently) to explain to you that people making the sounds are very different from people that balance classes, create new maps etc, which you seem to not understand.

Also, I did attempt to enlighten you what parallel means. It means that several things are happening simultaneously, so making sounds does not mean that all work on new content is halted, and making new content does not mean that class balancing stops.

 

No but i can read between the lines. I understand fine. But you dont seem to understand because i habe a differing opinion that it doesnt make me wrong or stupid despite what you and the previous poster insinuate. He directly called me stupid for giving my opinion on how they dhould allocate resources.

 

I know they can do vo work with little effort and cash but to me any effort to do this is a waste because id rather play cotnent that wouldnt get skipped thru. Its a value added thing but i wont get into economics because it wodnt fit the picture of stupid you painted me into

[Aries_cz]

No but i can read between the lines. I understand fine. But you dont seem to understand because i habe a differing opinion that it doesnt make me wrong or stupid despite what you and the previous poster insinuate. He directly called me stupid for giving my opinion on how they dhould allocate resources.

 

I know they can do vo work with little effort and cash but to me any effort to do this is a waste because id rather play cotnent that wouldnt get skipped thru. Its a value added thing but i wont get into economics because it wodnt fit the picture of stupid you painted me into

 

Well then, you obviously read something I never meant. Yes, the previous poster called you an idiot, but only after you proclaimed we think of you as one. I never insinuated that your were an idiot, even though you have given me ample reason to think so. Was I condescending? Yes, maybe a little bit, because you obviously believe that the development team is one giant group of people that does everything, and nothing could be farther from the truth, which is obvious to anyone with a shred of knowledge of how development works.

 

The team is composed of smaller teams, each assigned to and skilled in different area of development. You have people that make sounds, you have people that balance classes, you have people that build maps, you have people that write scripts, you have people who test content, you have people who talk to community, etc. And while it is possible to retrain someone to do something else, it is usually a waste of time/resources, and that person is much more useful doing what he/she was hired to do.

 

Also you simply cannot "hire more programmers", because there is usually a huge learning curve, and can take even a skilled programmer weeks or months to get used to existing codebase (you simply cannot let someone to start writing code that others would have problems with getting oriented in). Not to mention there is a fine line when more programmers mean slower development, because they get in each others way.

 

Assuming that creating VOs, sounds etc. slows down the development of content is simply wrong, because it is done by people who have little or maybe even no idea how to build maps, write scripts or properly test the game.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Aries_cz

[mmjarec]

Well then, you obviously read something I never meant. Yes, the previous poster called you an idiot, but only after you proclaimed we think of you as one. I never insinuated that your were an idiot, even though you have given me ample reason to think so. Was I condescending? Yes, maybe a little bit, because you obviously believe that the development team is one giant group of people that does everything, and nothing could be farther from the truth, which is obvious to anyone with a shred of knowledge of how development works.

 

The team is composed of smaller teams, each assigned to and skilled in different area of development. You have people that make sounds, you have people that balance classes, you have people that build maps, you have people that write scripts, you have people who test content, you have people who talk to community, etc. And while it is possible to retrain someone to do something else, it is usually a waste of time/resources, and that person is much more useful doing what he/she was hired to do.

 

Also you simply cannot "hire more programmers", because there is usually a huge learning curve, and can take even a skilled programmer weeks or months to get used to existing codebase (you simply cannot let someone to start writing code that others would have problems with getting oriented in). Not to mention there is a fine line when more programmers mean slower development, because they get in each others way.

 

Assuming that creating VOs, sounds etc. slows down the development of content is simply wrong, because it is done by people who have little or maybe even no idea how to build maps, write scripts or properly test the game.

 

I know exactly what you ment you dont habe to call me stupid outright youjust insinuate it and then cowardly hide behind obscure statements.

 

I dont see why you think you habe to explain the dev process for me to form an opinion I can form it without you. Yu are trying to sell me a happy meal when all i want is the toy

[Aries_cz]

I know exactly what you ment you dont habe to call me stupid outright youjust insinuate it and then cowardly hide behind obscure statements.

 

I dont see why you think you habe to explain the dev process for me to form an opinion I can form it without you. Yu are trying to sell me a happy meal when all i want is the toy

 

I have no desire insulting you or doubting your intelligence, even though you are giving me more and more reasons to do so. Also, I am not hiding behind any obscure statements.

 

And I feel I need to explain to you how the development works, because you are showing in your posts that you have zero knowledge how it works, and based on your wild assumptions about it you are making fool of yourself.

[mmjarec]

Yeah, unless you noticed, the VOs are in most cases not done by development staff (some might be, but very few). They are done by actors and other voice artists. And it is probably coordinated by that part of development team that is responsible for sounds. You know, the guys who do not understand how to write code, create graphics or test the game?

Also, I suggest you look up what parallel means.

 

Ok so how is this not completely condescending? I suggest you look up what it means othwerwise learn to have a polite argument with someone you disagree with or you wont make it far in life before you mouth off like that to someones face and then rearrange said face for you

[ImperialSun]

Ok so how is this not completely condescending? I suggest you look up what it means othwerwise learn to have a polite argument with someone you disagree with or you wont make it far in life before you mouth off like that to someones face and then rearrange said face for you

 

Is that a bit like the recent dps thread where you leapt to completely false conclusions by making incorrect assumptions to begin with, then were rude, insulting, derogatory and condescending to that particular OP, even accusing him of wanting people to carry him in RAID scenarios?

 

Yeah...maybe you should take some of your own advise?

 

Driz

Edited September 18, 2013 by ImperialSun

[DarthAnias]

I personally enjoy the dialogue and feel like we get new content pretty often. It makes my game experience much better when my character has a voice. That's what separates TOR from other MMO's. So I hope they keep doing what they are doing. =)

[DarthTHC]

I'm not clicking your link.

 

My answer is NO.

[mmjarec]

Is that a bit like the recent dps thread where you leapt to completely false conclusions by making incorrect assumptions to begin with, then were rude, insulting, derogatory and condescending to that particular OP, even accusing him of wanting people to carry him in RAID scenarios?

 

Yeah...maybe you should take some of your own advise?

 

Driz

I do take my own advice. He said he wasnt insulting me and he was. So what? Thats life i was just pointing out if he wanted to stay out of the hospital he wouldnt want to say that to someones face as he obviously was lying or didnt understand the insult in which case i pointed it out

 

As for the pther guy he has nothing to do with this post just you taking a predictable cheap shot at me

There were no harsh conclusion ls made just truth. He didnt state his gear color so in order to accurately answer his question assumptions had to be made since not enought info was given. And yeah if he hit the enrage timer he was being carried and was lucky to not be booted. Thats what i said and is fact ive seen plenty booted after not havig eniugh dps to avoid enrage. What does all this have to do with the topic? Oh nothing. If you want to continue posting id suggest you stop harassing me and stalking me

[The_Grand_Nagus]

To address a few misconceptions I've seen mentioned thus far:

 

1) It is true that the same people are not working on VOs as are making new missions. However the entire development team has 1 budget, and the EP decides how that budget is divided up between the various different team departments. If there werent any VOs, then that money would be invested into other parts of the team. Perhaps hiring new people who make missions, which would actually increase the speed of content development.

 

2) James Ohlen said the following about VO and the game's budget:

 

"[Voice acting] was a known entity, and cost was quite low in comparison to the cost of the rest of the project."

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/29/gdc-2013-james-ohlen-on-how-f2p-saved-swtor/

 

However, it should be noted that he was referring to the initial development budget of the game. That means, how much it cost to go from having nothing at all to the product they launched with. In other words, how much it cost to build every single part of the game world from nothing.

 

Why does that matter? The initial development budget of a game is much larger than the standard operating budget that game runs on after it is launched. That is why many studios do not keep the entire development team after the product has launched, and we all know that the TOR team was downsized after launch.

 

And what all of that means is that while the VO percent of the huge development budget may have been small, we have no idea how big or small the VO percent of the current operating budget is.

Edited September 18, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus

[Lesaberisa]

I'm not sure why either of that matters. Your entire topic is based on complete conjecture that you've failed to support with any kind of concrete data or argument beyond "well there's some kind of resource amount being allocated to voicing missions/NPCs, so if that was reassigned elsewhere maybe something [indeterminate] would happen." All you've done is present a false dilemna that you have no substantive foundation for.

 

The voice acting is far less predominent post-class stories, there's re-use of voice actors, there's the use of mission terminals for repeatable quests (particularly dailies), they were still using already recorded (read: already paid for) voice acting on Makeb and beyond.

 

What argument is there that somehow the limited voice acting that exists in game at 55 is what holds back content, particularly compard to things like the SSSP or developing arenas in addition to WZs?

Edited September 18, 2013 by Lesaberisa

[mmjarec]

To address a few misconceptions I've seen mentioned thus far:

 

1) It is true that the same people are not working on VOs as are making new missions. However the entire development team has 1 budget, and the EP decides how that budget is divided up between the various different team departments. If there werent any VOs, then that money would be invested into other parts of the team. Perhaps hiring new people who make missions, which would actually increase the speed of content development.

 

2) James Ohlen said the following about VO and the game's budget:

 

 

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/29/gdc-2013-james-ohlen-on-how-f2p-saved-swtor/

 

However, it should be noted that he was referring to the initial development budget of the game. That means, how much it cost to go from having nothing at all to the product they launched with. In other words, how much it cost to build every single part of the game world from nothing.

 

Why does that matter? The initial development budget of a game is much larger than the standard operating budget that game runs on after it is launched. That is why many studios do not keep the entire development team after the product has launched, and we all know that the TOR team was downsized after launch.

 

And what all of that means is that while the VO percent of the huge development budget may have been small, we have no idea how big or small the VO percent of the current operating budget is.

 

Ya but VOs add so much instead of silly quests or class balance. But not nearly as much as a pointless space minigame that gets stitched on hapazardly

Edited September 18, 2013 by mmjarec
Sjzj

[The_Grand_Nagus]

I'm not sure why either of that matters. Your entire topic is based on complete conjecture that you've failed to support with any kind of concrete data or argument beyond "well there's some kind of resource amount being allocated to voicing missions/NPCs, so if that was reassigned elsewhere maybe something [indeterminate] would happen." All you've done is present a false dilemna that you have no substantive foundation for.

 

The question posed in the OP and in the poll is hypothetical. Would you accept no voiceovers IF it meant more frequent content? Notice the key word? Obviously, only Bioware themselves could determine if that were truly the case. I never claimed to know anything for certain.

 

Ya but VOs add so much instead of silly quests or class balance. But not nearly as much as a pointless space minigame that gets stitched on hapazardly

 

And that is a completely valid opinion. As long as you are willing to respect other people's completely valid opinions, then everything is fine.

Edited September 18, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus