Shadows - Top 3 Questions

kennethdale · September 24, 2013

I've done the same (but didn't have all the gear). I leveled a guardian, and, in a lot worse gear, am out-tanking my shadow. The guardian has only 1 drawback - it's not designed to be the off-tank because focus/rage generation sucks a big wet set of donkey balls when you're not getting beat on.

So, my advice is reroll from a shadow. A Shadow is to SWTOR what the Paladin was to WoW, the class the devs hate.

The Guardian/Jugg is what the devs play, it will always be able to clear all game content
Guardians/Juggs will always get their issues fixes (see #1)
The Guardian/Jugg has to be the MT, because you can't do anything if you're not getting beat on, and the OT never takes the beating on single tank fights
The Guardian/Jugg has 2 excellent DPS specs, both work in PvP and PvE, but 1 is completely OP in PvP, especially against Shadow Tanks (auto crit smash ignores shields )

Funny thing is, while proofreading this post, I realized that 1-4 is the the exact problem that Shadows face, just reverse each item...

Interesting you should mention Guardian VS Shadow. I have a Juggernaut tank and after hearing so much about the issues with Assassins but not seeing much evidence besides mathematical proofs and "It totally happened to me, guys" I decided to level one and try it out. As of now I have tanked NiM TFB and SnV on the Jugg and HM TFB and SnV on the Sin (he's only been 55 for about 2 weeks) and I'll admit that there are issues with spikiness for Assassins. But then I noticed something on my Juggernaut; people had been saying how smoothly they take damage and how its so close to PT/VGs (I have healed in the past, then switched to DPS, and then had to switch to tanking recently) but my Juggernaut was taking massive spikes of damage. Nothing that would kill her, mind you but it was so unexpected I began to read logs of my own Juggernaut and others trying to determine what I was doing wrong. Now, I'm human and I make mistakes but none of them led to the spikes I was taking so I put it down to gear, bit the bullet and spent a ton of credits buying stuff to min/max her. Still the spikes come. On top of that, managing aggro on ranged mobs is and has always been a nightmare of running around fruitlessly taunting this and Force Screaming that trying desperately to hold mobs long enough for them to die. In short, tanking on my Juggernaut is a test of threat management.

Meanwhile on my Assassin; I leveled entirely as DPS so that my feelings at max level were completely unaffected. The first thing I noticed? How much of a joke holding threat is for an Assassin. Oh that ranged mob that's not in melee hasn't gotten hit by anything but my wither/discharge? Shock. Mine. Oh shucks, there is a mob out of my range? Recklessness Force Lightning and ... MINE. On my Juggernaut I cannot imagine running without Guard up, on my Assassin I frequently forget that its not up. I've even made it into a game in my guild: 10 credits when you pull threat off of me. And then I get smashed by a boss and my health drops way below the comfortable level into the "OH F*CK! OH F*CK! SH*T! COOLDOWN! COOLDOWN!" level but then I shield the next 10 attacks and am back at full. I've gotten "one shot" (Never truly one shot, just a lot of damage in too short a period of time to get healed through). It sucks. But a lot of it comes down to knowing the fights, knowing your CDs, and using them. In short, tanking on my Assassin is a test of fight knowledge and cooldown management.

If you enjoy tanking on a Guardian/Juggernaut, that's great. Fun for you. I hate it. I hate that I have to run around like an idiot trying to grab mobs when my Assassin just goes "LAWL WITHER!" and boom threat. I hate that the CDs are on long enough CDs that I'm always terrified to use them because I might need it MORE later. I hate that when something isn't actively attacking me, my resource management is terrible. I would much rather be on my Assassin but our MT is an Assassin and bringing two of any tank just doesn't make sense.

TL;DR: If you want a Guardian, roll a Guardian. Shadow's are completely playable in PvE in DPS and Tanking, if you're not enjoying it please move aside so someone who DOES enjoy it can actually get a chance to do it.

It's true. But I have seen what they have done to Warhammer, whose large scale PvP exists and is incommensurably better than SWTOR. They let it DIE, a MMO that could easily have 2M subs if they ever added content or fixed bugs in YEARS of complete abandon.

It started exactly like how SWTOR is doing now:

- Super famous IP and licensing
- Grand launch, huge hype.
- Super mega massive queues and over-stressed servers. Here's me waiting for 2 hours just to log in.
- At launch, Immediate "wake up" by the player base about how truly broken the game is.
- Inept and non communicative developers who hide behind "PR mouthpieces".
- Damage control applied in abusive amounts. Truths denial. Classes imbalances false promises.
- Game loses a big portion of the now disgusted player base.
- Mini, pathetic expansion (anyone see something in common?) that brings in more problems than it solves.
- More technical and game balance issues.
- Developers are incompetent and just unable to deal with their own creation. Large parts of them get fired and no replacement comes.
- A sort of "cartel market" is introduced.
- Lots of gadgets, pets and other fluff are introduced.

No, I am not talking about SWTOR even if the story is identical.

- Game keeps bleeding players. Entire game feature remain at a barely more than hype state (see space combat? Outworld PvP?)
- More incompetence, delays, silence. Now some big brass heads drop. It's how EA works.
- Game is now at "niche status", third party websites stop talking about it. Then forums close the War sections. Finally, add ons websites (here SWTOR is even worse, could not even implement add ons) like Curse.com remove Warhammer.
- Game's servers are moved to a cloud server. You read it right, they won't even want to pay for physical servers to host it any more.
- One day, they stop selling game time cards / codes. Playerbase get worried and the cowards say it's "just a temporary EA website technical issue".
- With no fanfare, they announce the game will shut down at the end of this year.

SWTOR has some more playerbase left, but is RAPIDLY going exactly that way. A testament about how neither EA nor BW have any clue about how to manage MMOs, even when they have the massive push of strong lore and IP (Warhammer and Star Wars).

So, Evolixe, if you had to see your favored MMO being brutalized, smashed, minced and destroyed like that, how much faith would you have in SWTOR which is quickly going the same route?

So, Evolixe, as I was saying in the beginning you are right. Reroll is not a smart option. Leaving this trainwreck end like Warhammer is. Quit and completely ban EA / Failware from your gaming brands forever. That's the answer.
Or you may stick and enjoy it till it'll last. But don't grow attached to it like I did for Warhammer, beause it really hurts.

To re-state the incommensurable degree of incompetence displayed here, just think about Istaria: a 2003 game with a fraction of the content of other games and no PvP at all, tanked at launch but is *growing* since several years. Because the incompetents were replaced by fewer but good developers.

So, 2008-2012 (Dec 2011) grand AAA titles close down and handful developers 2003 games prosper.

Truthfully, this game has failed already. KotOR was fantastic because it was an entirely new storyline, in an entirely different time of a great story. In of itself it was a great story but was made infinitely better by relation to the movies. SWtOR took that whole idea and decided the only good portion of it was the "relation to something good". Its set some years after KotOR, with so much of the storyline of KotOR simply being dropped in to make fanbois go "OH GAWSH I REMEMBER DAT PART!!!" and hopefully forget that what they were playing was akin to the child of your step-sibling: Yeah, I can sort of see parts of my family, but its just not even close to the same thing. They failed from the get-go by trying to be a new WoW but throwing out everything that worked about that game and only looking at the later (read: bad) expansions.

In all honesty, I've given up hope. I'm still playing because I have friends that still play. I'll keep playing until Wildstar, but then I'll be gone. Won't look back either, even if that ends up failing as well. There isn't anything even slightly new or revolutionary that I can say "well at least they did...". They've got nothing. They're trying to sell this "Dread Masters" thing but its not really a coherent story thread and in the end, it feels sort of thrown in. I mean, how do you tie the whole idea of Scum and Villainy into uber-powerful sith lords? "Well, see, these immensely powerful ex-Sith are trying to buy an army[snV]. But when that fails they just make their own[Dread Fortress]." It doesn't even make the slightest bit of sense. And even that is ending soon, as I'm guessing will this whole MMO.

Aelanis · September 24, 2013

I'm honestly a little scared about the answers. I'm really worried they're going to be "L2P, H2F."

tacito · September 24, 2013

Interesting you should mention Guardian VS Shadow. I have a Juggernaut tank and after hearing so much about the issues with Assassins but not seeing much evidence besides mathematical proofs and "It totally happened to me, guys" I decided to level one and try it out. As of now I have tanked NiM TFB and SnV on the Jugg and HM TFB and SnV on the Sin (he's only been 55 for about 2 weeks) and I'll admit that there are issues with spikiness for Assassins.

kennethdale, the point is that hardmode operations are not the actual problem. You start to experience some slight problems, but it happens rarely, and can usually be avoided by proper cooldown management. The point is that shadows in nightmare ops sometimes die no matter what they do, especially in 16 man runs.

Basically, what you're saying is "I didn't run the content you all say you have problems with, and I had no problems. Stop yelling!".

Aelanis · September 24, 2013

I'm just going to go and beat a dead horse here. When our Guardian took a 16 man Nightmare Gutwrenching Kick to his unshielded face, he laughed from just under half health via Mumble at our Shadow, who lost 35k of his 40k hp to the same attack just moments previously. Thankfully I had my Underworld Medicine halfway cast already, and our other healers are freakin' amazing, or else that Shadow would have been very dead. And I don't wanna hear anything about 'knowing when to blow cooldowns' as making the spikiness situation okay. Later that night, I watched our Shadow die to a Huge Grenade from well over half health WHILE using Battle Readiness. By the way, that's a Shadow's only cooldown that works on that, so when he, on a later pull, got targeted by the second random bomb, that went over really well.

TL;DR

Don't say Shadows/Assassins are fine and dandy for NiM content. They really, really aren't.

Vaerah · September 24, 2013

I'm just going to go and beat a dead horse here. When our Guardian took a 16 man Nightmare Gutwrenching Kick to his unshielded face, he laughed from just under half health via Mumble at our Shadow, who lost 35k of his 40k hp to the same attack just moments previously. Thankfully I had my Underworld Medicine halfway cast already, and our other healers are freakin' amazing, or else that Shadow would have been very dead. And I don't wanna hear anything about 'knowing when to blow cooldowns' as making the spikiness situation okay. Later that night, I watched our Shadow die to a Huge Grenade from well over half health WHILE using Battle Readiness. By the way, that's a Shadow's only cooldown that works on that, so when he, on a later pull, got targeted by the second random bomb, that went over really well.

TL;DR
Don't say Shadows/Assassins are fine and dandy for NiM content. They really, really aren't.

Also, it does not matter that tanking on a Jugg is more painful on the player and requires all sorts of dedication. It matters that a tank can... tank! I mean, if you are given the easiest toy tank in the world, with heavenly aggro generation, fantastic cooldowns and ranged spells but... just dies mid fight vs a terribly tiring tank that laughs at the same encounter, who's the one to take? The one tank that lives.

kennethdale · September 24, 2013

kennethdale, the point is that hardmode operations are not the actual problem. You start to experience some slight problems, but it happens rarely, and can usually be avoided by proper cooldown management. The point is that shadows in nightmare ops sometimes die no matter what they do, especially in 16 man runs.

Basically, what you're saying is "I didn't run the content you all say you have problems with, and I had no problems. Stop yelling!".

No, that's not at all what I am saying (and you should go reread many of the complaints because many reference issues in HM, in fact that is where the issue first showed itself). What I am saying is that Guardians and Shadows are completely different tanks. I would love to bring my Shadow to NiM but I wouldn't bring two of any tank to a raid as they each have strong suits. My point was rather than saying "go reroll" just do it so that those of us who want to play the class can do it. I admitted there are problems particularly in 16m NiM but those issues aren't an absolute wall. Its one of many rng issues that can cause a wipe. Don't misunderstand me, it needs to be fixed. Personally I think boosting armor or DR is the easiest and most effective fix. It would decrease the size of the hits while still maintaining a apikey profile, something that defines sin tanking. I'm just tired of people only talking about the negatives of Sins and the positives of Juggs.

tacito · September 24, 2013

Well, my apologies. I have not read complaints about hardmodes recently. I have also cleared both S&V and TfB on hardmode, so it is indeed quite possible. But things like the infamous "Terminate" start to really damage your calm. It doesn't usually kill you (unlucky occasions excluded), but you start thinking.

Now I'm only beginning to jump into nightmare, and I hold my judgement until I experienced it firsthand. But I can see how an unshielded Terminate could be problematic with further increased damage.

Besides that, it's probably true that shadows have an easier time at grabbing aggro at range. Then again, so do vanguards. I think part of the problem is that shadows have no "niche" as a tank, besides "requiring slightly less healing overall, while subjecting the group to avoidable wipes".

The self healing of course is problematic, because it's only fully effective if the healers don't top you off - something that, as far as I understand, is no longer advisable in nightmare.

I'd love for the shadow to be a tank built around short-cooldown, short-duration defenses. Where you excel when timing everything properly, and get melted if you don't. Sort of high risk, high reward. Right now though, we're lacking the cooldowns to do so. Maybe a two second duration, 50% melee/ranged damge reduction on same CD and refreshing mechanic as force shroud. Encourages the shield/dodge concept (need it to have your short CDs ready as often as possible), allows to cancel exceptionally huge spikes with correct use (as long as they're predictable, of course; since I'm not in nightmare yet, I don't know how often this holds true).

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to the top 3 answers.

Leafy_Bug · September 24, 2013

This past week, I had to dust off my shadow and take it to TFB NiM progression. We cleared all but two (dreadguard and TFB) and suffice it to say, I had major issues staying alive at OpiX and Kephess. Please find below.

OpiX composition : 3 sentinel, 1 scoundrel dps, two shadow tanks, 2 scoundrel healer. Time needed for the kill? 3h and 45 minutes. Cliff notes.

1. No colours failed, each shadow tank had to stay alive with two regulators on him. I constantly died when the boss spawned as the regulators simply obliterated me. I was tanking this fight from cooldown to cooldown because otherwise I would not survive it. There was a moment where my fellow shadow tank, got two shot and we could not understand what was going on.

2. Boss does not hit hard surviving orange phase and yellow are the ones that keep you from clearing it.

Kephess the Undying : composition, 2 shadow tanks, 1 scoundrel dps, 1 scoundrel healer and sage healer, 1 commando , 2 sentinels. Duration before kill? 3 hours and 15 wasted tries due to bad RNG.

1. 16099 sucker punch FTW from kephess killed my shadow several times. This fight seems worse than OpiX because of healer movement.

2. If BR or deflection are not up, you are as good as dead. Both myself and co-tank, died ridiculously when moving from one pylon to another. At one point we started laughing because the only cool down we had ready was resilience and we got killed with 9k in it. We knew that cool down was useless but we still used it.

Verdict? One shadow tank is enough to keep your butt cheeks clenching, two are over kill.

Personal opinion :

While I loved tanking this with my shadow, I feel the need to say, that after each kill i was like 'omg, we did it my shadow survived!!!. The feeling was mutual because the other shadow tank said we did not only do it with one shadow but with two. Our healers were excellent and they said it kept them awake but for progression and no1 world kills they want something more reliable.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Leafy_Bug

Berjiz · September 24, 2013

Interesting you should mention Guardian VS Shadow. I have a Juggernaut tank and after hearing so much about the issues with Assassins but not seeing much evidence besides mathematical proofs and "It totally happened to me, guys" I decided to level one and try it out. As of now I have tanked NiM TFB and SnV on the Jugg and HM TFB and SnV on the Sin (he's only been 55 for about 2 weeks) and I'll admit that there are issues with spikiness for Assassins

It really doesn't show that much in HM(unless 16 man hm), you notice large spikes but survivabilitys is not a huge issue. I have been trying to collect spike parses but the interest hasn't been huge, there are some though: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=674833

. But then I noticed something on my Juggernaut; people had been saying how smoothly they take damage and how its so close to PT/VGs (I have healed in the past, then switched to DPS, and then had to switch to tanking recently) but my Juggernaut was taking massive spikes of damage. Nothing that would kill her, mind you but it was so unexpected I began to read logs of my own Juggernaut and others trying to determine what I was doing wrong. Now, I'm human and I make mistakes but none of them led to the spikes I was taking so I put it down to gear, bit the bullet and spent a ton of credits buying stuff to min/max her. Still the spikes come. On top of that, managing aggro on ranged mobs is and has always been a nightmare of running around fruitlessly taunting this and Force Screaming that trying desperately to hold mobs long enough for them to die. In short, tanking on my Juggernaut is a test of threat management.

Thats the whole problem with spikes, you can't affect the dmg you take directly by gearing. And an assasin will take about 20% more dmg from a spike than a juggernaut. The only 100% way to avoid it is cds but those aren't up all the time.

Meanwhile on my Assassin; I leveled entirely as DPS so that my feelings at max level were completely unaffected. The first thing I noticed? How much of a joke holding threat is for an Assassin. Oh that ranged mob that's not in melee hasn't gotten hit by anything but my wither/discharge? Shock. Mine. Oh shucks, there is a mob out of my range? Recklessness Force Lightning and ... MINE. On my Juggernaut I cannot imagine running without Guard up, on my Assassin I frequently forget that its not up. I've even made it into a game in my guild: 10 credits when you pull threat off of me. And then I get smashed by a boss and my health drops way below the comfortable level into the "OH F*CK! OH F*CK! SH*T! COOLDOWN! COOLDOWN!" level but then I shield the next 10 attacks and am back at full. I've gotten "one shot" (Never truly one shot, just a lot of damage in too short a period of time to get healed through). It sucks. But a lot of it comes down to knowing the fights, knowing your CDs, and using them. In short, tanking on my Assassin is a test of fight knowledge and cooldown management.

I agree, threat is never a problem on my sin. The rotaion is quiet simple to, dark ward can be a bit annoying at times. However thinking about how to use the cds are a pretty big part of the fights. Especially force shroud.

Berjiz · September 24, 2013

I'm just going to go and beat a dead horse here. When our Guardian took a 16 man Nightmare Gutwrenching Kick to his unshielded face, he laughed from just under half health via Mumble at our Shadow, who lost 35k of his 40k hp to the same attack just moments previously. Thankfully I had my Underworld Medicine halfway cast already, and our other healers are freakin' amazing, or else that Shadow would have been very dead. And I don't wanna hear anything about 'knowing when to blow cooldowns' as making the spikiness situation okay. Later that night, I watched our Shadow die to a Huge Grenade from well over half health WHILE using Battle Readiness. By the way, that's a Shadow's only cooldown that works on that, so when he, on a later pull, got targeted by the second random bomb, that went over really well.

TL;DR
Don't say Shadows/Assassins are fine and dandy for NiM content. They really, really aren't.

Could you link that parse? Would be nice to see and I been trying to collect spike parses.

Aelanis · September 24, 2013

I'm sure he had his logs enabled that night, so I'll see if I can't get those from him. Also, the 35k may have been closer to 30k, but it's just about as deadly on that fight.

THoK-Zeus · September 24, 2013

@Leafy_Bug:

Resilience useless on kephess?! This cooldown gives you a 5 sec immunity to all but one single attack from kephess, as all attacks except power punch are force/tech attacks. About 80% of Kephess whole damage is force/tech based.

I can't get it also why you complain about regulators, when you have 4!! mdps in your group composition for op9. Obviously every range dps can clear a regulator way faster then a mdps and obviously each tank class gets ripped, if the adds are not killed fast enough. Therefore every serious raiding group is taking atleast 2 rdps.

I get more and more the feeling that you are just inventing all your post and you don't play a shadow class at all.

"Your" thrasher parse, were "you" stood in a red circle from demolitioner for 15k damage a few seconds before "you" died (and were you blame spikiness ..).

Then you don't know anything about resilience, rotation etc....

Edited September 24, 2013 by THoK-Zeus

Leafy_Bug · September 24, 2013

Voila log from last night, something is terribly wrong with torparse as lately it fails to upload my logs properly. Enjoy the sucker punch numbers.

http://www.torparse.com/a/435871

A side note. While resilience provides me with immunity against Kephess, when Resilience is available and Kephess is using 'something else' (read Thok, read!!), you die as resilience does not save you. As I mentioned, a shadow at Kephess in NiM without battlereadiness and Deflection will die. Ignore that 5s immunity, after 5 he will butcher you !To kill him successfully, we had to yoyo kephess according to our cooldown availability. When you have a guardian and a shadow, shadow is good for picking up orbs while the guardian is practically main tanking him 100%.

For Thok, with much love :

2:00:46.151 Kephess the Undying's Power Punch hits I'risa for 16066 kinetic damage, causing 16066 threat.

02:00:46.151 Kephess the Undying kills I'risa

02:43:54.556 Kephess the Undying's Power Punch hits I'risa for 16075 kinetic damage, causing 16075 threat.

02:43:54.556 Kephess the Undying kills I'risa.

.

That was a one shot and I had no cooldown available (read adrenal, battle readiness or deflection) except resilience. This is where I giggled cos I said in teamspeak ' i am using resilience, watch me get sucker punched to death'. Regarding healers, we had to replace a scoundrel with a sage, cos the bubble was priceless to stay alive as a shadow tank.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Leafy_Bug

MasterFeign · September 24, 2013

Well I'm off to Vegas for a week, so I assume it'll be then that the answers will come out. I assume I'll have wifi to at least view the answers.

KeyboardNinja · September 24, 2013

A side note. While resilience provides me with immunity against Kephess, when Resilience is available and Kephess is using 'something else' (read Thok, read!!), you die as resilience does not save you. As I mentioned, a shadow at Kephess in NiM without battlereadiness and Deflection will die. Ignore that 5s immunity, after 5 he will butcher you !To kill him successfully, we had to yoyo kephess according to our cooldown availability. When you have a guardian and a shadow, shadow is good for picking up orbs while the guardian is practically main tanking him 100%.

Deflection is next-to useless against Kephess. You can deflect Wrist Laser, and that's about it. Resilience, BR and Adrenal is generally what you need to rely on (especially BR).

To be clear, Guardians actually take more damage than Vanguards on that fight (while also being spikier) and even Vanguards can die from the spike damage. Here's a clear where you can actually hear the healer's confusion:

Shadows certainly can spike harder, but I've seen my cotank die about as often as I have on that fight. Note that this particular pull had a bizarre second phase, because I had to take a moment to rez a healer. This in turn meant that I wasn't main tanking the full phase (which is what I usually do), and as a result didn't have Resilience up for both jumps. Also the orbs were hilariously uncoordinated.

Anyway, yes, Power Punch is going to hit for just over 16k when you don't shield it. It happens fairly predictably though. We generally rely on tank swaps to buy the healers a second or two after a bad spike, since the damage profile is such that spikes are isolated. It's not like Kel'sara, where she spikes you, and then 5 seconds later spikes you again. Kephess is a bit more structured, which is nice.

THoK-Zeus · September 24, 2013

On the one hand you write that a tank without br and deflection will die.

On the other hand you write that resilience provides 5 sec immunity to kephess.

Then you write you should ignore that 5 sec immunity cause after that 5 sec he will butcher you.

I know that i probably feed the trolls here but you tell me in your post that you "yoyo" kephess for hours so the current tank has cooldowns ready and on the other hand you tell me that a 5 sec ~80% immunity defensive cooldown (with a ~50 sec cooldown) is useless.

A Sidenote: Deflection is a way worse cooldown the Resilience as its just providing a 50% increase in migation for one single attack kephess can do

I can just tell you (for the tenth time i think or so): Learn to play your class (probably level a shadow first) and use all your good defensive cooldowns and not just the bad ones.

Also to the posted log: Really impressive damage on this shadow, 1,5 k dps on average really impressive, how were your healers able to heal that?! (may include sarcasm)

Leafy_Bug · September 24, 2013

Deflection is next-to useless against Kephess. You can deflect Wrist Laser, and that's about it. Resilience, BR and Adrenal is generally what you need to rely on (especially BR).

To be clear, Guardians actually take more damage than Vanguards on that fight (while also being spikier) and even Vanguards can die from the spike damage. Here's a clear where you can actually hear the healer's confusion:
Shadows certainly can spike harder, but I've seen my cotank die about as often as I have on that fight. Note that this particular pull had a bizarre second phase, because I had to take a moment to rez a healer. This in turn meant that I wasn't main tanking the full phase (which is what I usually do), and as a result didn't have Resilience up for both jumps. Also the orbs were hilariously uncoordinated.

Anyway, yes, Power Punch is going to hit for just over 16k when you don't shield it. It happens fairly predictably though. We generally rely on tank swaps to buy the healers a second or two after a bad spike, since the damage profile is such that spikes are isolated. It's not like Kel'sara, where she spikes you, and then 5 seconds later spikes you again. Kephess is a bit more structured, which is nice.

The reason we did not get it down earlier was simple : that sucker punch killed me and my co-tank. We already knew when we were going to die and why. Just look at this numbers ....

02:30:23.665 Kephess the Undying's Wrist Laser hits I'risa for 14735 energy damage, causing 14735 threat.

02:30:53.710 Kephess the Undying's Power Punch hits I'risa for 16076 kinetic damage, causing 16076 threat.

02:15:07.431 Kephess the Undying's Power Punch hits I'risa for 9840 kinetic damage, causing 9840 threat.

02:15:18.497 Kephess the Undying's Power Punch glances I'risa for 4990 kinetic damage, causing 4990 threat.

02:16:38.141 I'risa parries Kephess the Undying's Power Punch, causing 1 threat.

http://www.torparse.com/a/435871/10/0/Damage+Taken

This attempt i took 2075 DPS. In another attempt i take 1500 DPS, yoyo-ing all over the place with this tank.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Leafy_Bug

THoK-Zeus · September 24, 2013

The reason we did not get it down earlier was simple : that sucker punch killed me and my co-tank. We already knew when we were going to die and why. Just look at this numbers ....

02:30:23.665 Kephess the Undying's Wrist Laser hits I'risa for 14735 energy damage, causing 14735 threat.
02:30:53.710 Kephess the Undying's Power Punch hits I'risa for 16076 kinetic damage, causing 16076 threat.
02:15:07.431 Kephess the Undying's Power Punch hits I'risa for 9840 kinetic damage, causing 9840 threat.
02:15:18.497 Kephess the Undying's Power Punch glances I'risa for 4990 kinetic damage, causing 4990 threat.
02:16:38.141 I'risa parries Kephess the Undying's Power Punch, causing 1 threat.

http://www.torparse.com/a/435871/10/0/Damage+Taken

This attempt i took 2075 DPS. In another attempt i take 1500 DPS, yoyo-ing all over the place with this tank.

Over 50% of your damage taken is from overcharge. If you are not bothering to cleanse yourself from the debuff in the blue circle in time that's another clear visible mistake. You actually took more damage from the debuff, then you took from kephess direct attacks which is not good.

Shadows have this skill named force speed and i am sick and tired of helping you all the time, just because you yell out the loudest and blame the class i play all the time.

Edit: Also something kbn pointed out aswell. You have 2 tanks with together 75-80k hp. No one prevents a tank from taunting the boss off the other tank while this tank is low on health. The bigger problem would be a large number of unmigated hits from kephess in a row, but that affects guardians way more then shadows. (cause all of their cooldowns are just increasing migation and don't have included self heals and they have a lower average migation then shadows/vanguards).

Edited September 24, 2013 by THoK-Zeus

Aelanis · September 24, 2013

Thok, a Guardian's cooldowns are typically less spike intensive than a Shadow's. Warding Call is roughly equivalent in effect to Battle Readiness, but then Saber Ward reduces force and tech damage in addition to Deflection's effect, AND it prevents all melee and ranged damage for the first 2 or 3 seconds. Saber Reflect and Resilience are roughly equivalent as well ,minus the fail rate on Resilience and the larger pool of attacks Saber Reflect works against. Then Guardians get Enure and Focused Defense, though the latter is very, very dangerous as a tank. I'd say the Guardian gets the less-spiky cooldowns.

ArchangelLBC · September 24, 2013

Hey folks!

Just a quick update on the answers for Shadow and Mercenary. The Combat Team is hard at work on the changes coming for 2.5 so your answers will be coming a bit later this week. Courtney will be the one posting your top 3. I will be out of town for a couple of days so you wont see my name lightin' up the devtracker. Play nice while I'm gone.

Thanks!

-eric

Panzerfire · September 24, 2013

Ah, is the ship sinking?

How I interpret it:

"We weren't planning on giving you any buffs or re-evaluation of the class (which is why we don't have anything ready made) but because of the fallout caused by the sorc questions it seems we cannot give you the L2P answer, our combat team is busy on testing out changes which will seem to improve your class but will in reality not do too much. "

Laforet · September 25, 2013

Ah, is the ship sinking?

How I interpret it:
"We weren't planning on giving you any buffs or re-evaluation of the class (which is why we don't have anything ready made) but because of the fallout caused by the sorc questions it seems we cannot give you the L2P answer, our combat team is busy on testing out changes which will seem to improve your class but will in reality not do too much. "

Shadows - Top 3 Questions

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