Assassins and 4v4s

[bbalky]

Hey guys, just started playing this game, needed to get away from lol and back on to the mmorpg scene, more specifically the pvp. Just rolled an assassin but after reading some threads it seems sins are not thought of too highly in the arena? What's the reason behind this?

 

Thanks

[discoklaus]

to many abilitys counter the playstyle the assassin was made for. if you dont deal significant dmg (which means kill your target) in the first 10 secs then you have blown all you got and are less usefull then the rest of the classes

[Pathlight-]

They can be great in arenas when played well (watch Xinika or Evolixe's vids) especially in deception spec but they are indeed very average once their opening burst is gone.

[ZipZep]

They are fine as dps, I have been playing abit on my sniper working with assassin dps, both as madness and Deception (madness was mostly for fun, I was playing lethality at same time). Guess its one of the harder dps classes though, but it has the burst to kill people.

 

Guess as tanks, PT's and especially Jug's are just superior.

[bbalky]

Thanks guys. Answers I was kinda expecting. Guess I shall see how it goes, if its that bad I'll reroll!

[fauver]

You can check out Roudy's stream(http://www.twitch.tv/roudyzor), imo you won't find any better demostration of assassin's possibilities @ arenas. Edited September 13, 2013 by fauver

[ErikGW]

If you are planning to only roll one class in this game you already failed :-)

 

This is a mmo. This is not an immediate gratification, learn it all in a day game like lol.

[bbalky]

If you are planning to only roll one class in this game you already failed :-)

 

This is a mmo. This is not an immediate gratification, learn it all in a day game like lol.

 

Thanks for the 'helpful' information bro. Where did you deduce your findings? I'm familiar with how an mmo works, just incase you missed that part. I asked a question about assassins at 55 with regards to pvp.

 

With regards to your lol comment, I'll play your game here and have a wild stab in the dark, you weren't very good at it?

[ErikGW]

Thanks for the 'helpful' information bro. Where did you deduce your findings? I'm familiar with how an mmo works, just incase you missed that part. I asked a question about assassins at 55 with regards to pvp.

 

With regards to your lol comment, I'll play your game here and have a wild stab in the dark, you weren't very good at it?

 

A few friends from a previous pvp game begged me to play lol. I tried it but felt it was pretty lacking as would be expected from a free to play pvp game.

 

"Good at it" wasnt really an issue. It was a very simple game and being good at it didn't require much effort.

 

My friends that did play it also got bored not too long after and moved on to better games.

 

And that's why free to play models are killing online gaming. Now that swtor is going free to play, we can expect a surge of players from games like lol to come in here and try it out.

 

Luckily i think most of them will:

- refuse to subscribe, because they want everything free

- not have the attention span or dedication to learn and play multiple classes and become a competitive player.

- most will not make to max level before they move on to another free game.

 

The few that do stay might be worthwhile longterm players. There won't be many. Maybe you will be one that stays.

[Evolixe]

It'll be a major challenge if you're new to the game type. However it's not imposseble.

 

You will have to stand out from the rest in order to earn your place though.

[ErikGW]

It'll be a major challenge if you're new to the game type. However it's not imposseble.

 

You will have to stand out from the rest in order to earn your place though.

 

Interpretation:

Assassin tanks trade durability (armor) for aoe knockback, the ability to deal more damage than other tanks, and the ability to use stealth. This in game terms translates to much less powerful "save me" skills. The other tanks get more resist buffs and better self heals. What you get is less resist buffs but more control abilities. The pt/vg tank can pull but not push. The jugg/guard tank can push one target but not pull. You can pull one target and push in a frontal aoe.

 

Assassin dps revolves around attacking from stealth with massive burst damage in the first 20 seconds. Beyond that window, sustainability becomes an issue.

 

This doesn't mean you are nerfed as a class, it means you are a more specialized play style than other classes in those roles.

 

So if you are good, you are good and you will do great. The bulk of assassins in this game are not that good.

[Evolixe]

This doesn't mean you are nerfed as a class, it means you are a more specialized play style than other classes in those roles.

 

So if you are good, you are good and you will do great. The bulk of assassins in this game are not that good.

 

Could not have said it better myself.

[bbalky]

Thanks for all your advice guys. I subscribed straight away as I like the look and feel for this game as soon as I started playing, and from what I hear with the upcoming patches and changes, I feel it has a lot of potential. I know I'm late to the game but I'm here for the long haul and like a challenge. Played wow for a good few years and quit after cataclysm. Was mainly a healer after playing paladin and priest, priest being my main. With a Druid and Mage as Dps classes towards the end. Never played a pure melee Dps to any real extent so picked up the assassin here with a feel of it being closely related to a rogue. Guess I will see how it goes.

 

I'm on red eclipse if anyone fancies adding me. Ign is syykk.

[bbalky]

Bump for friends.

 

Also anyone know of a decent in depth assassin guide?

 

Thanks

[Aelaias]

A good shadow player is very noticeable because there are so few of them. They are an excellent burst dps/control class which benefits from pairing with classes which have high burst/sustain but poor control such as combat or vigilance enabling them to do their dps easier and relieving some of the performance pressure from the shadows.

[Avicii]

Bump for friends.

 

Also anyone know of a decent in depth assassin guide?

 

Thanks

 

Yea check the stickies in the Shadow/Sin class forums. It has all the info and questions/answers.

[Evolixe]

Bump for friends.

 

Also anyone know of a decent in depth assassin guide?

 

Thanks

 

How to play the class: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=645706

 

How to play warzones: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6602363#post6602363

 

If you need anything.. Xinika, KeyboardNinja and myself are always open for contact. Just send a PM.

 

(click on Profile > Contact > Send Private Message)

[bbalky]

How to play the class: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=645706

 

How to play warzones: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6602363#post6602363

 

If you need anything.. Xinika, KeyboardNinja and myself are always open for contact. Just send a PM.

 

(click on Profile > Contact > Send Private Message)

 

Thanks for coming to this thread! Your reputation precedes you! I shall be picking your brains in the near future!

Edited September 14, 2013 by bbalky

[bbalky]

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/Assassin#200-100221220320112032223-210012223

 

With this build, how comes you don't pick up the final deception talent?

[JP_Legatus]

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/Assassin#200-100221220320112032223-210012223

 

With this build, how comes you don't pick up the final deception talent?

 

Because they think death field as an ability makes up for losing the cornerstone talent of the deception tree. I've been over how it's mathematically bad dps-wise a million times so I'm not going to go into that, but basically you're losing a ton of dps for the utility of having death field. The trade off is that death field is internal damage, it's aoe, and it's useable on anything up to 30m (helpful when being kited). In exchange you lose single target damage, that your team is going to expect you to deal as a dps slot.

 

In any case, everyone who is talking about deception having good single target burst is technically correct, the problem is that maras do it better. I can take someone from full to dead in 3 globals as a carnage mara every 30s (which ofc does have its own drawbacks) and still keep the "**** me" defensive cooldowns of aoe mezz, undying rage, and force camo. And that's considered the "bad" mara spec.

As a deception sin the most burst you'll ever do is roughly 23k in 3 globals (6k + 8k + 9k), and that's assuming maul crits, you got your maul buff, shock double-strike procs, the target has no armor, and you had recklessness available. Most of the time, maul won't crit and you probably won't have recklessness in arena, or your shock won't proc or it's an armored target (it's likely ONE of those will happen). You'll be able to pull this off one more time if you blow your combat stealth, dealing 46k in 6 globals, which is probably the highest 6 global damage anyone can deal, but the odds of you critting 2 mauls is extremely low and you can't get 2 duplicity procs in 9s without using a low damage move to proc it in between (making it 7 globals). After which point, you have two defensive cooldowns that both pretty much suck and you're a light armor melee class, so hopefully something died and you didn't get stunned or something, because you're crap dps and squishy for the next 90s.

 

TLDR: everything a dps sin can do, maras can do better so why waste your time leveling a sin for arena? If you just want to do arena, pick a different class.

Edited September 14, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[bbalky]

TLDR: everything a dps sin can do, maras can do better so why waste your time leveling a sin for arena? If you just want to do arena, pick a different class.

 

I do like a challenge. But this makes it sound that I will just be constantly frustrated, disappointed.

[Vaerah]

It'll be a major challenge if you're new to the game type. However it's not imposseble.

 

You will have to stand out from the rest in order to earn your place though.

 

... which for some last days is "sit at the pylon!"

[Vaerah]

I do like a challenge. But this makes it sound that I will just be constantly frustrated, disappointed.

 

A little eye opener for you: if you are AS good as Evolixe, Xinika and those 2-3 top universal 'sins then you will greatly enjoy it.

 

Otherwise if you are "human" like most, you'll get not only frustrated but you'll also regret how much time you spent on a class that ***cannot*** be made competitive for arenas (= the future) because making them arena worthy (= able to sustain drawn out fights) would mean making them super overpowered.

 

So either you were a little champion in your other game and know you'll be the new hero here, or you'd be better playing a more effective class.

[bbalky]

Thanks for the honesty, didn't quite get this part though..

 

So either you were a little champion in your other game and know you'll be the new hero here, or you'd be better playing a more effective class.

[Evolixe]

TLDR: everything a dps sin can do, maras can do better so why waste your time leveling a sin for arena? If you just want to do arena, pick a different class.

 

In PvP, nobody cares about the spec that reaches for the highest on the charts. Nobody cares about what does best in your mathematical equations.

 

What matters is that the target dies or that the objective is and stays under control. By whatever means necessary.

This instantly and completely shoots down your argument of how it is mathematically incorrect to play the Death Field hybrid. Because it isn't "DPS" I'm going for anyway.

 

At the same time, this "lost" single target pressure is actually really small. So small in fact that YOU had to unleash "mathematical" equations on it to see how small it even really is. While I gain an AoE attack every 12 seconds that can deal a total of more than 20k damage in a single GCD. Completely making up for that "lost" single target damage in an instant.

 

Not only does this create MORE pressure on the healer because all that damage has to be healed across various target.. it also comes INSTANTLY, which makes it more deadly than "sustained" damage that is done over a small period of time.

 

In reality, as a Sin, you have the highest single target burst in a small period of time. Meaning that you need to have full control of your enemies in order to get the most out of your class. Now this is something that goes beyond the capabilities of most players. Hence why it's mostly viewed as an imposseble class to play well in arena.

 

But that is nothing further from the truth. It just requires a LOT of work.. military precision and insane combat insight. And that, is why 99.9% of the players are incapable of making a Sin team successful.

 

TLDR; Marauders aren't "better" at anything we do. They are however "easier". But the playstyle is incomparible.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Evolixe