Leveling expierience

[Ricul]

In every single game after WoW the developers use a system where the Mobs have too much HP and scale with the Player level. That is a major flaw in gamedesign because it kills progression.

 

If you constantly get shiny items with higher numbers but you never ever feel like you are actually stronger you have no reward system you have a let down system. When i use my strongest ability and see the hp bar barely scratched there is something wrong.

 

Over at WoW 10% of the population are raiding and 90% are basically goofing arround making alts. People don't want challanges in their leveling content ! Every single MMO exept WoW uses that system and every single MMO couldn't accumulate that big of a playerbase. Have you ever leveled in WoW? You basically oneshot Mobs over there in the beginning and plow through the whole leveling expierience exept the latest expantion and having fun while doing it. They never listened to entilted Forumplayers asking for buffs and calling others noobs.

 

Also massively buff xp for Class Storys so you don't have to grind througf all those meaningless sidequests.

Having the 100th random guy asking for help and hearing the 100th excuse on why only YOU can do it is pissing me off. At this point im tempted to forcechoke every questgiver (implement that please).

Massively buff xp for Flashpoints and PvP. Peole that don't want to quest should have the opportunity to level through PvP or Flashpoints.

 

This game is a massive grind right now and every change towards makeing the grind less of an annoyance will get a big thumbs up.

 

Edit : Thats it i've had enough and unsubbed. The trash in this game is a major dealbreaker. As a tank 2 level above trash i still get major damage from smallest mobs and it takes ages to kill stuff. This is not fun it is pure frustration.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Ricul

[Alikont]

There is another problem. On first playtrough my friends and me tried to complete each quest and storyline, as well as flashpoints, and we overgrow planets dramatically, so we forced to skip planets, and play planet quest on next playtrough.

 

SWTOR has a big issue, because it's a good single-player game with WoW stuff. It lacks single-player saves and replay.

[NOTACTICS]

I agree that Mobs at your level should have around the same Health points as you and scale with you have less of them but actually make them better more tactical attackers. I know what you mean it seems that it is just case of a grind in that the difficulty is based on a mobs HP rather than it's skill if you know what I mean. I tend to feel the standard solo leveling is more an endurance grind rather than you getting that feeling well I played my skills and abilities well there agaisnt that Elite that was a good fight..

 

I think standards, silvers and elites have around the same HP as your level not like but with with silvers having more abilities and DPS than standards and Elites having a bit more again. I think there needs to be more defensive evade parry and dodge abilities that you atcually use rather than that coming down to a defence rating. Make it feel more like a involved fight.

[GatorAndy]

I agree that Mobs at your level should have around the same Health points as you and scale with you have less of them but actually make them better more tactical attackers. I know what you mean it seems that it is just case of a grind in that the difficulty is based on a mobs HP rather than it's skill if you know what I mean. I tend to feel the standard solo leveling is more an endurance grind rather than you getting that feeling well I played my skills and abilities well there agaisnt that Elite that was a good fight..

 

I think standards, silvers and elites have around the same HP as your level not like but with with silvers having more abilities and DPS than standards and Elites having a bit more again. I think there needs to be more defensive evade parry and dodge abilities that you atcually use rather than that coming down to a defence rating. Make it feel more like a involved fight.

 

Welcome to the world of RPGs. They have been based on % chance and dice rolls from the beginning. What you want is an action game where you can gain levels. This is not that game.

 

Also, at low levels, you don't have many abilities, which leads to repetitiveness. However, there gets to be more strategy in knowing which abilities to use when as you get to higher levels.

 

While I appreciate a challenge in games, I would have gotten annoyed rather quickly if I died a lot while leveling because mobs were constantly out maneuvering me. The challenge in MMOs comes from doing group content when you have to have teamwork to get through.

[GatorAndy]

There is another problem. On first playtrough my friends and me tried to complete each quest and storyline, as well as flashpoints, and we overgrow planets dramatically, so we forced to skip planets, and play planet quest on next playtrough.

 

SWTOR has a big issue, because it's a good single-player game with WoW stuff. It lacks single-player saves and replay..

 

Does not compute...

 

Also, what do you mean by single-player saves?

[Glowrod]

I think there may be another issue at play. Unlike WoW, SWTOR is heavily gear based. Meaning that if you don't have the best gear all throughout your leveling, you'll start dieing a lot. To someone coming into the game, it's not obvious. When I first started this game, it was an exercise in frustration, dieing all the time. Over the course of time, I started spending more time making sure I had the best equipment possible for my level and it started becoming easier. Currently, I try to stay about 2 levels ahead of the content, and will go back to previous planets to do the group quests for the Comm badges so I can get better mods more often.

 

Personally, I hate micromanaging gear. I feel that it takes away from the overall experience of the story and questing if I have to spend so much of my time worried about gear, but I like the story so I have to deal with it. What would be awesome is if they would have mods that leveled with my toon, so I could install them and forget them and spend all of my time actually PLAYING the game.

[NOTACTICS]

Welcome to the world of RPGs. They have been based on % chance and dice rolls from the beginning. What you want is an action game where you can gain levels. This is not that game.

 

Also, at low levels, you don't have many abilities, which leads to repetitiveness. However, there gets to be more strategy in knowing which abilities to use when as you get to higher levels.

 

While I appreciate a challenge in games, I would have gotten annoyed rather quickly if I died a lot while leveling because mobs were constantly out maneuvering me. The challenge in MMOs comes from doing group content when you have to have teamwork to get through.

 

I understand that group play is where the main challange is, where you do have to to have some cordinated tactics it (it is supposed to be a MMO afterall). To me though the solo leveling aspect although has a good story line to It, the process of it feels like a means to an end rather than a challange of your ability as you progress and learn the game.

 

I am not asking to change the leveling dynamics to that of single player action game massivly but I would welcome a bit more intelligence from mobs insted of Hp being their main defence and more defensive moves to use on your part, basically so you have to react a bit more to what the mobs are doing like you have to in group content sometimes. This would make you learn better and improve you ready for later group play aswell. Don't get me wrong I am not really complaining that much as I enjoy the leveling story and the environment it is played in, but I think to Op does make vaild point.

[Nempo]

I understand that group play is where the main challange is, where you do have to to have some cordinated tactics it (it is supposed to be a MMO afterall). To me though the solo leveling aspect although has a good story line to It, the process of it feels like a means to an end rather than a challange of your ability as you progress and learn the game.

 

I am not asking to change the leveling dynamics to that of single player action game massivly but I would welcome a bit more intelligence from mobs insted of Hp being their main defence and more defensive moves to use on your part, basically so you have to react a bit more to what the mobs are doing like you have to in group content sometimes. This would make you learn better and improve you ready for later group play aswell. Don't get me wrong I am not really complaining that much as I enjoy the leveling story and the environment it is played in, but I think to Op does make vaild point.

 

They had smarter mobs with less HP originally...people died...alot...they also used to have a different system int hat silvers hit harder but had the same hp as standard and golds had more hp but hit the same as standard. Believe it or not it actually created a tough environment where you got chewed up in regularly if you weren't on top of knowing which skills to interupt and who to stun who to cc and who to just let hit you. The scrapped the idea after the tester forums were flooded with "this game is too hard!" being repeated so many times.

 

I miss it.

 

Also, another poster up above said you need the best gear? REALLY?! Just for laughs I leveled a character in all greens and whites, never equiped or used anything that wasn't green or white. Regularly using gear 4-5 levels under me at that. The game actually was challenging at times but not terribly so. Just make use of ALL of your skills, and be smart in what companion you use (use companions for what they can DO, not who you want to travel with you). Also...the silvers in groups? Should be your LAST target, kill those standard/weaks off first. Likewise kill the silvers before the golds. So many people I see regularly jump right at the highest type of mob and wail on it then wonder hwy they die, because you let all those weaker mobs rip into them unimpeded.

[Joel_Eisenlipz]

I played mainly RTS and RPG games prior to SWTOR. So, I have no basis for MMO comparison, but I have invested a considerable amount of time in SWTOR leveling many characters of all roles and classes.

 

That being said, I found the leveling experience on par with expectations the first time through. The few times that I did struggle were because either I hadn't yet learned a mechanic, or I was intentionally trying to do something stupid. Both of which were my fault. On alts, leveling became VERY easy--boring at times, but the story lines were entertaining enough to keep me going.

 

If I could change anything about the leveling experience, it would be to make it MORE difficult. Even in endgame operations, I encounter people who don't care to learn the nuances of their class, and can still succeed because the content isn't challenging enough. They can spam basic abilities and have never needed key bindings or a second quickbar.

[JamieKirby]

I agree that Mobs at your level should have around the same Health points as you and scale with you have less of them but actually make them better more tactical attackers. I know what you mean it seems that it is just case of a grind in that the difficulty is based on a mobs HP rather than it's skill if you know what I mean. I tend to feel the standard solo leveling is more an endurance grind rather than you getting that feeling well I played my skills and abilities well there agaisnt that Elite that was a good fight..

 

I think standards, silvers and elites have around the same HP as your level not like but with with silvers having more abilities and DPS than standards and Elites having a bit more again. I think there needs to be more defensive evade parry and dodge abilities that you atcually use rather than that coming down to a defence rating. Make it feel more like a involved fight.

 

Well, I have yet to see this heroic combat they talked about in reveals, all I see are the companions being the thing that makes the difference, not us, its them.

 

Pick the wrong companion, you feel it big time, they should have kept the roles as they were in closed beta, it was perfect then...you could pick their roles, but that's a different subject.

 

I think the combat would be more cooler if the enemies scaled properly, but became more tactical about their attacks and AoE combat is so last year, they design most of the classes for 1v1 combat, yet you have to face 2+ at the same time. lol

 

I think they need to make everything all aoe or something.

[MajikMyst]

I think there are a lot of issues at play here..

 

First, I don't see anyone mentioning the different types of mobs.. Silver, Gold, and of course gold and white or a boss mob..

 

Mobs with no emblem are trash mobs and should be relatively easy to kill.. They are usually in groups, which means we are typically out numbered.. So giving them the same health we have is not a good idea.. Making them harder is also not a good idea.. I have lost count how many times I have pulled more groups than I have intended.. Should those situation be an automatic death for someone?? What about in a cave where there is limited space for combat.. Now throw a mob in there with a knock back and we are in trouble..

 

Silver mobs are a bit harder and typically have the same amount of life a player has of the same level.. Which is why we see these guys for the most part either by themselves or in small groups of trash mobs.. They hit harder, have more armor, and are much harder to kill..

 

Gold mobs are much harder, have more health than the player and have much more armor and hit much harder.. They are usually alone or with one or two trash mobs.. Can also be found in +2 or +4 content in larger groups, but that content is intended for 2 or 4 people.. Gold mobs can also have abilities that should be interrupted or can disable your companion..

 

Gold and white, or boss mods are almost exclusively alone unless adds are spawned during the encounter.. They typically can have more than 10 times the life of the player.. Hit very hard and have tons of armor.. Some of them even heal themselves, as well as special abilities that should be interrupted.. Not to mention can also disable your companion..

 

If you are going to talk about the scaling of the mobs or how hard they are or aren't.. I think the discussion should be attacked by mob type.. Do we really want every mob to be a world boss?? I would guess the answer to that is no.. Do we want every mob to be a trash mob?? Again, no is probably the answer..

 

You can't talk about balance unless you address the different types of mobs and their functions.. Trash mobs are a dime a dozen, We will literally kill thousands of them in our travels in this game.. They are easy to kill and there are lots of them.. There is nothing wrong with that.. Making them harder would make everything else take longer.. While I wouldn't mind leveling taking a little longer.. I would prefer more quests and a little less XP received from each quests.. Not harder mobs..

 

The mobs scale just fine.. Something else that hasn't been addressed is XP bonuses.. I am currently leveling both a sage and a scoundrel.. Both are about 3 or 4 level ahead of the content they are currently in.. Should the mobs scale with that??

 

I will say that it would be nice if all the mobs could level with the character regardless of the use of XP bonuses.. If my toon is level 26 then all the mobs I face should be that level.. That would just be very hard to do in shared areas.. Where character of many levels could be actively killing mobs.. Unless they could tie it to your character somehow..

 

Sorry for the book..

Edited September 10, 2013 by MajikMyst

[MajikMyst]

Edit : Thats it i've had enough and unsubbed. The trash in this game is a major dealbreaker. As a tank 2 level above trash i still get major damage from smallest mobs and it takes ages to kill stuff. This is not fun it is pure frustration.

 

Sorry you unsubbed but you are leveling as a tank.. Tanks are not known for their dps.. It is going to take longer for tanks to kill stuff.. Perhaps you should level in a dps spec and then change when you reach 55?? You will kill stuff faster.. Otherwise, get your healer out and keep on plugging.. I leveled my shadow tank as a tank and enjoyed it very much.. Sure, killing stuff took a little longer, but I understand that as I am a tank..

 

If you don't like grinds then don't play MMO's.. They all in some way are a grind.. Be it leveling a new character or doing dailies or running ops and flashpoints or doing Warzones.. Everything is a grind.. Even in WOW.. WOW is no different than this.. There are dailies, there are heroics, and there are raids, There are battlegrounds, and there are arenas.. Grind away..

Edited September 10, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Arnianor]

Actually leveling my alt with only pvp, story and flashpoints. And I have absolutely no problem doing so.

As tank you might want a good DPS companion, have you ever considered taking HK-51 ?

[morfius]

Mobs are OK for casual game... of coarse there is much silver that hit more than gold, there is normal that hit worst than a boss (new HM FPs) - but most of them are related with some mechanic.

Scaling means changing core game - STO have it and only way it work properly is space because ships you get with next level have more weapons & consoles... ground STO is still very bad MMO implementation.

Tank/healer leveling is annoying ... if you do it wrong.

I have done tank / healer combos with my wife - 2 geared DPS companions ... it is still slower compared to 2 ranged DPS leveling but not so annoying as solo one.

But leveling tank/healer in any other MMO I have ever seen is same - slow & annoying.

It is MMO design issue, tanks & healers don't work without each other and have lowered DPS output, so DPS race is not viable also.

As tank you could at least take DPS companion & heal out of combat... healer is bad because DPS companion means all mobs on it = interrupts, knockbacks & so on.

Then again, over level them and they go down very fast no matter class.

 

If there is any issue with mobs in this game is that - each second have push or knockback.

[Joel_Eisenlipz]

Perhaps you should level in a dps spec and then change when you reach 55?? You will kill stuff faster..

 

I can only agree with this suggestion to a point. Yes, you will level faster as a DPS; however, if you have never played a tank in SWTOR before, this will inevitably lead to disappointment. There is a fairly steep learning curve, and if you aren't patient enough to level a tank, then you probably won't have the dedication to learn and contribute as a tank at endgame either.

 

That being said, if you can withstand the barrage of insults thrown in the direction of a bad tank, then maybe you can contribute. You will need thick skin AND at least half a clue how to tank. Just remember: regardless of what actually happened, it's always the tank's fault.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Joel_Eisenlipz
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