iheartnyc Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 (edited) I can only speak for MM, but that's bogus. sniper needs multiple gcds/setup to do what a smasher can right off the bat (enrage+leap > smash). That's assuming that the Smasher isn't CC'd, rooted, kited, slowed, pushed, and while rooted, the targets simply spread out and walk away from you. The sniper may need a bit more build-up, but that process is a lot less likely to be interrupted and the sniper can freecast at will. Why isn't anybody acknowledging that while the "on-demand" DPS of a Smasher is in theory great, in practice, the rotation gets interrupted like none other? And even when you get it off, good players will have spread out by the time you're ready to smash? http://www.twitch.tv/eliteduelist/b/447155980 Watch that at 3:30. Twas the first day of PTS only game we lost that day, and it was against a team that had a sniper, assasin, only 1 smasher and healer. The assasin and sniper were absolutely deadly and completely neutralized me. Our team, which was face-rolling double/triple smash teams, got face-rolled by a team with only one smash. Hrm...that balance... Also, please take a look at that stream and tell me how many times you see me getting off massive smashes compared to the number of times I can only smash 1 or 2 targets and those for 4-6K each. The latter are the vast majority, and that's IF I can get my smash off. As you can clearly see, as soon as I get in close for a smash, the other team disperses or I'm CC'd so I can't get my smash off. Which is why I could careless if they nerfed smash so that it only hits 2 targets max since that's what's going to happen in Arenas anyway Edited September 5, 2013 by iheartnyc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfourcustom Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 That's assuming that the Smasher isn't CC'd, rooted, kited, slowed, pushed, and while rooted, the targets simply spread out and walk away from you. The sniper may need a bit more build-up, but that process is a lot less likely to be interrupted and the sniper can freecast at will. Why isn't anybody acknowledging that while the "on-demand" DPS of a Smasher is in theory great, in practice, the rotation gets interrupted like none other? And even when you get it off, good players will have spread out by the time you're ready to smash? http://www.twitch.tv/eliteduelist/b/447155980 Watch that at 3:30. Twas the first day of PTS only game we lost that day, and it was against a team that had a sniper, assasin, only 1 smasher and healer. The assasin and sniper were absolutely deadly and completely neutralized me. Our team, which was face-rolling double/triple smash teams, got face-rolled by a team with only one smash. Hrm...that balance... Also, please take a look at that stream and tell me how many times you see me getting off massive smashes compared to the number of times I can only smash 1 or 2 targets and those for 4-6K each. The latter are the vast majority, and that's IF I can get my smash off. As you can clearly see, as soon as I get in close for a smash, the other team disperses or I'm CC'd so I can't get my smash off. Why are you still fighting about this or even posting here for that matter?? Your class/spec wont get a nerf its pretty much a fact... lol everyone who has ever played this game could log in to the forums make a thread saying nerf smash and nerf mara's it could have 234523423429347u329847923789 posts on the thread and they wouldn't nerf it one bit. Pretty sure bioware already said they have no plans to change anything relating to the mara/sent class so your fine you can keep on smashing your class will NEVER be none viable. as said before Uncle Austins got your back and New york city's BACK, elite!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartnyc Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 (edited) Why are you still fighting about this or even posting here for that matter?? Cuz I'm at work and I'm bored and couldn't play SWTOR yesterday Also, this is one of the best chances that we smashers have had in recent months to set the record straight! To be honest, I get told every single day in-game that my class is OP and it's a bit annoying. I may just start playing my Sorcerer or Gunslinger again. A free-casting gunslinger is so much worse than a smasher. Scenario 1: Healer: this smasher's on me I need a peel (team peels and either wrecks the smasher so he has to bust his DCDs and run back home or simply CCs him and then everyone walks away - problem solved) Scenario 2: Healer: this gunslinger is tearing me up! Team: he's tearing us up too! (smashers try to leap to him but they can't because of hunker down, so they walk very slow to him and just as they are about to smash they get pushed back - team decides it's better to LOS the gunslinger instead). Edited September 5, 2013 by iheartnyc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterone Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I may just start playing my Sorcerer or Gunslinger again. Yeah you should, perhaps then you could share an unbiased opinion. Oh wait, you won't. And I don't blame you, why would anyone play a weaker class/spec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laithrup Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Eliteduelist, I think I speak for everyone here that you're a complete *********** idiot and should just shut the **** up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartnyc Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 (edited) Eliteduelist, I think I have anger management issues and want to kill myself. OK cool story. Now try to take a deep breath, relax and formulate an opinion instead of raving about like a child. Edited September 5, 2013 by iheartnyc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I find it amusing how you started dodging my post after a crystal clear argument. If you wouldn't be so massively biased, then you might understand that marauders are they are are completely stupid. You don't need a marauder to kill a healer or whatever ranged, my Assassin can do that just fine. Without immortality cooldowns and without smash. I simply can't keep going indefinitely. And that is the difference. And that is what needs to be changed ON YOUR SIDE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartnyc Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 (edited) I find it amusing how you started dodging my post after a crystal clear argument. If you wouldn't be so massively biased, then you might understand that marauders are they are are completely stupid. You don't need a marauder to kill a healer or whatever ranged, my Assassin can do that just fine. Without immortality cooldowns and without smash. I simply can't keep going indefinitely. And that is the difference. And that is what needs to be changed ON YOUR SIDE. Sorry there are so many arguments by so many people floating around that I lost track of what people were saying. To be fair, I've played sorcerer longer than I've played my smasher so I used to be on the receiving end of smash and I know how it feels. Your right, in Arenas, Assasin/Shadow DPS needs to be looked at and should be buffed. Same with operative/scoundrel DPS. But I'm pretty sure I've been saying that they need a buff since the start. In 8v8s they were in a good place with the respec and node guarding ability. I don't know if that means they need better survivability, an overall DPS boost to all abilities or simply an increase in its burst. Assasin/Operative sure is deadly in 1v1s and 2v2s and can be effective in Arenas but the skill-cap is too high I think. Edited September 5, 2013 by iheartnyc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 (edited) I don't need a buff hell I don't even want one. You need a nerf. I was saying that I can fullfill my job without being horrendously OP. I like it when my class requires the utmost from a player to be considered a good choice, was the same for rogues for a very long time. Teaches you to play on the edges of insanity. Edited September 5, 2013 by Evolixe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartnyc Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 (edited) I don't need a buff hell I don't even want one. You need a nerf. I was saying that I can fullfill my job without being horrendously OP. Well how would that solve anything? Assasin/Shadow isn't even 2nd choice for DPS in Arenas...so nerfing Smash won't really solve anything for Assasin/Shadow. The really good players will thrive but I believe the average player will simply get passed over for a juggernaut/guardian DPS or a vanguard/PT hybrid or a gunslinger/sniper. And if Smash gets nerfed, it will only make Sorcerer/Sage that much more viable which will throw Assasin/Shadow even lower down the pecking order. Edited September 5, 2013 by iheartnyc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 (edited) Well how would that solve anything? Assasin/Shadow isn't even 2nd choice for DPS in Arenas...so nerfing Smash won't really solve anything for Assasin/Shadow. The really good players will thrive but I believe the average player will simply get passed over for a juggernaut/guardian DPS or a vanguard/PT hybrid or a gunslinger/sniper. And if Smash gets nerfed, it will only make Sorcerer/Sage that much more viable which will throw Assasin/Shadow even lower down the pecking order. Different comps have different strengths. And even though you can rest assured that a marauder with half a brain won't be dying first.. they are not always the best dps to pick in every case. Thank god. Edited September 5, 2013 by Evolixe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartnyc Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 (edited) Different comps have different strengths. And even though you can rest assured that a marauder with half a brain won't be dying first.. they are not always the best dps to pick in every case. Thank god. I hope you're right, and that there is no clear "meta" once 2.4 goes live, even though I think some classes will remain broken whether or not Smash gets nerfed (I just realized you're Evolixe from PTS lol hi). Whatever the case, I think everyone has said everything that there is to be said about this issue and we're starting to go in circles I'm glad at least some of us had this chance to have a thoughtful discussion on Smash. I hope at least some people out of the 7,000+ that perused this thread saw that there are at least some difference in opinions and several potential solutions (including nerfing the Smash ability, nerfing DCDs, nerfing both, nerfing Op healer, buffing other DPS classes, doing nothing) to improving balance in this game. Most of you seem to think Smash needs a nerf of some kind, and although I would prefer other classes to be buffed first before talking about nerfs, I am generally OK with a nerf to the Smash ability, but need to think some more about the defensive CDs (my fear of ranged DPS getting too powerful). Edited September 5, 2013 by iheartnyc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 However in undying rage, no matter what you do.. That marauder is NOT going to die in the next 4 seconds. Buying time to get healed up, or get away. Whatever it is undying rage promotes playing super recklessly. This is an interesting psychological point. The perceived "god-mode" makes players play especially aggressive ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 A sniper can't nuke multiple targets for 8-9k with one action. 2 - 3 snipers can't immediately and unstoppably create an AoE area of death where everything inside just dies no matter the healing. 1 sniper can't keep happily dish his first class damage with a sin / shadow on his face. 1 sniper has difficulties stealthing and moving off when his spot really gets too hot. Which smashers do any of those things? (3 or 4 actions required for the first nuke which is the easiest, btw, + melee range.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerah Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 How in the world are people missing the most obvious and basic distinctions here? A sniper is a RANGED DPS CLASS so please stop comparing the two like they're equal! A sniper isn't being focused, stunned, rooted, pushed away from healer, isolated, etc. Considering I play a (lesser of course) melee class myself I quite know the difference between a RDPS and a MDPS. Considering I also am melee and get nowhere the same armor nor AoE and not even sustained damage of a mara, then what should I do? /wrist? No, I deal with it. I still prefer figthing against 3 snipers than against 3 smashers. As melee. Also, 2-3 smasher can't "immediately create a ring of AOE death." They have to have leap up. They have to avoid being CC'd or rooted. They have to avoid being slowed and kited. They have to avoided being pushed back. They have to avoid being killed first when the entire enemy team decides to global you. And if you get globalled, you pray you have your DCDs up so you can run back to your healer to be healed, and then you can leap back in, and then again avoid being pushed back, avoid being CCd and slowed You make it look like it's some heroic hard feat. I see it done constantly, every day, every WZ with smashers (that is, many). Maybe my server smashers are all uber skilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I don't need a buff hell I don't even want one. You need a nerf. I was saying that I can fullfill my job without being horrendously OP. I like it when my class requires the utmost from a player to be considered a good choice, was the same for rogues for a very long time. Teaches you to play on the edges of insanity. Wow rogues were the definition of OP for the first 2-3 years of that game's release. Watch World of RogueCraft I, II and III on youtube - those spell it out far better than anyone has tried to do for smashers here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerah Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Sorry there are so many arguments by so many people floating around that I lost track of what people were saying. To be fair, I've played sorcerer longer than I've played my smasher so I used to be on the receiving end of smash and I know how it feels. Your right, in Arenas, Assasin/Shadow DPS needs to be looked at and should be buffed. Same with operative/scoundrel DPS. But I'm pretty sure I've been saying that they need a buff since the start. In 8v8s they were in a good place with the respec and node guarding ability. I don't know if that means they need better survivability, an overall DPS boost to all abilities or simply an increase in its burst. Assasin/Operative sure is deadly in 1v1s and 2v2s and can be effective in Arenas but the skill-cap is too high I think. No, deception / inf shadows / sins are fine, THEY are balanced. They don't need to be buffed to compete with smashers and op healers, the latter needs to be brought down to sanity instead. Also, I'd HATE if they lowered shadow/sin skill cap. Only thing that does not work is that the tank spec is so massively better in every circumstance (and still so sub par that nobody will take a shadow tank for real PVP tanking) than any other spec pales in comparison and is not taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerah Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I don't need a buff hell I don't even want one. You need a nerf. I was saying that I can fullfill my job without being horrendously OP. I like it when my class requires the utmost from a player to be considered a good choice, was the same for rogues for a very long time. Teaches you to play on the edges of insanity. :Highfives: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Wow rogues were the definition of OP for the first 2-3 years of that game's release. Watch World of RogueCraft I, II and III on youtube - those spell it out far better than anyone has tried to do for smashers here. Hence I wasn't talking about that period in the game. I didn't name an actual timeframe if you didn't notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 This is an interesting psychological point. The perceived "god-mode" makes players play especially aggressive ? Of course it does. They don't have to worry about dying AT ALL. So you can overextend like a rambo and get away with it because of the defensive capability the class has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Of course it does. They don't have to worry about dying AT ALL. So you can overextend like a rambo and get away with it because of the defensive capability the class has. From personal experience, stealth also does have significant effect on my gaming psychology, whenever I'm on my Shadow or Operative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 From personal experience, stealth also does have significant effect on my gaming psychology, whenever I'm on my Shadow or Operative. Sure, but once combat has been engaged it doesn't anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Sure, but once combat has been engaged it doesn't anymore. Same can be said once the UR has been burnt, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Same can be said once the UR has been burnt, no? No, after camo and ur have been burned. Which are both on really short cooldowns. Hence it's stupid OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 No, after camo and ur have been burned. Which are both on really short cooldowns. Hence it's stupid OP. Blargh, I'd just have UR reduce both, incoming damage *and* incoming healing by 99% and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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