Kaggath Tournament - Droid Supremacy vs Undying Brotherhood

[Selenial]

OK I'm planning on making a decision today, so if their are any final arguments to be made, now is the time.

 

Calling tonight or tomorrow morning?

[Beniboybling]

You also said that both Bothawui and Nar Shaddaa are shielded. And you can't exactly orbitally bombard a ship.

 

Besides, it's not going to come to that. G0-T0 isn't about to lose the war and just let the UB roll all over his planets.

If I said Nar Shaddaa was shielded, then I take that back, I don't think it was else the Imperials wouldn't think they could orbitally bombard it. And its such a disunified planet that I doubt a planetary shield was ever put in place.

 

But yes, Malgus would have to gain a strong space and ground advantage for this to succeed.

[Beniboybling]

Calling tonight or tomorrow morning?

We'll see how it goes, but don't hold your breath.

[Selenial]

If I said Nar Shaddaa was shielded, then I take that back, I don't think it was else the Imperials wouldn't think they could orbitally bombard it. And its such a disunified planet that I doubt a planetary shield was ever put in place.

 

But yes, Malgus would have to gain a strong space and ground advantage for this to succeed.

 

It wasn't an important planet to any Government, and the Hutts wouldn't spend the money keeping it up when the Exchange could put money in towards it, and they'd never work together.... So the Likelihood is nobody shielded it, not the governments or the Crime Syndicates...

 

Edit: And just needs a space advantage really...

Edited September 7, 2013 by Selenial

[Beniboybling]

It wasn't an important planet to any Government, and the Hutts wouldn't spend the money keeping it up when the Exchange could put money in towards it, and they'd never work together.... So the Likelihood is nobody shielded it, not the governments or the Crime Syndicates...

 

Edit: And just needs a space advantage really...

I say ground advantage because G0-T0 can hide out (and most likely will) on Bothawui, which has a planetary shield. Meaning Malgus would have to land troops on the ground.

[Beniboybling]

OK guys, if you want an outcome you are all going to have to go to this website, make an account and then vote Mass Effect as the Greatest Games Series of the Decade to honor KOTOR's defeat.

 

Dew it.

[Warren-Stride]

If I said Nar Shaddaa was shielded, then I take that back, I don't think it was else the Imperials wouldn't think they could orbitally bombard it. And its such a disunified planet that I doubt a planetary shield was ever put in place.

 

While much of Coruscant was filled with gleaming apartments and well-maintained skywalks, the entire moon that was Nar Shaddaa was dominated by decaying urban landscape and congested, polluted cities. The moon was protected by planetary shields. Anything illegal elsewhere could be bought and sold on Nar Shaddaa, and many young smugglers, pirates and criminals started their careers on the Smugglers' Moon. Various sections of Nar Shaddaa were controlled by the Hutts and other criminal organizations.

 

This is probably why you said that. Although it may not have had shields during the Battle of Nar Shaddaa, they were undoubtedly installed by the Hutts afterwards in preparation of another Base Delta Zero order. The Hutts still protect their assets.

 

It's a minor point that I'm willing to let go, none-the-less.

[Beniboybling]

This is probably why you said that. Although it may not have had shields during the Battle of Nar Shaddaa, they were undoubtedly installed by the Hutts afterwards in preparation of another Base Delta Zero order. The Hutts still protect their assets.

 

It's a minor point that I'm willing to let go, none-the-less.

I don't know why I said it, but I take back what I just said. Evidence is evidence.

[Selenial]

This is probably why you said that. Although it may not have had shields during the Battle of Nar Shaddaa, they were undoubtedly installed by the Hutts afterwards in preparation of another Base Delta Zero order. The Hutts still protect their assets.

 

It's a minor point that I'm willing to let go, none-the-less.

 

Planets drastically change through Eras... We Really need to pick an era for the Planet and stick with it before the Kaggath begins

 

Edit: There's no source on the Wookiee article, I'd take it with a pinch of salt.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Selenial

[Selenial]

OK , if you want an outcome you are all going to have to go to this website, make an account and then vote Mass Effect as the Greatest Games Series of the Decade to honor KOTOR's defeat.

 

Dew it.

 

I refuse to vote since I saw Arkham lose the Grand Theft Auto.

[Beniboybling]

Planets drastically change through Eras... We Really need to pick an era for the Planet and stick with it before the Kaggath begins

 

Edit: There's no source on the Wookiee article, I'd take it with a pinch of salt.

The Height of Power Rule probably applies here, essentially the planet at its best.

 

And the Planetary Shield Wookiee page also lists it as having a planetary shield - I'd like to think that nothing on Wookieepedia is arbitrary.

[Beniboybling]

I refuse to vote since I saw Arkham lose the Grand Theft Auto.

Then you must avenge it!

[Selenial]

Then you must avenge it!

 

"Because if we can't protect the game, you can be damn well sure we'll avenge it"

[Wolfninjajedi]

I'm thinking a Planetary shield could be overcome with significant firepower, and before someone brings up Hoth and the Rebels they had shutter shields meaning they had shields on their shields....(yes shieldception) which protected them from any bombardment, the shield generator they had being powered by reactors from a Praetor-class Star Battlecruiser outputting more power than a Imperial Star Destroyer.

 

I'm not seeing planets having such generators, unless they are on Rebel or Imperial controlled worlds.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

I'm thinking a Planetary shield could be overcome with significant firepower, and before someone brings up Hoth and the Rebels they had shutter shields meaning they had shields on their shields....(yes shieldception) which protected them from any bombardment, the shield being powered by reactors from a Praetor-class Star Battlecruiser outputting more than power an Imperial Star Destroyer.

 

I'm not seeing planets having such generators, unless they are on Rebel or Imperial controlled worlds.

 

So what your saying is, the rebels can shield while their shielding?

[Aurbere]

I refuse to vote since I saw Arkham lose the Grand Theft Auto.

 

How? Just, how?

[Wolfninjajedi]

So what your saying is, the rebels can shield while their shielding?

 

Quite, this was why even with the Star Destroyers and the Executor, the Imperials couldn't bombard the planet and had to send in Blizzard Force. Smart man that General Carlist Rieekan is.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

Quite, this was why even with the Star Destroyers and the Executor, the Imperials couldn't bombard the planet and had to send in Blizzard Force. Smart man that General Carlist Rieekan is.

 

Very much so.

[Selenial]

How? Just, how?

 

Ikr? I failed Harley... I failed.

[marcelo_sdk]

How? Just, how?

 

GTA deserves a place among the 4 best series of the decade, but Arkham is a lot better indeed. Really, the only ones that deserves their places are Mass Effect and GTA, Fallout and Elder Scrolls, I can think of some better series.

 

Regarding the Kaggath. I doubt Malgus will die in a PROXY sabotage. I think it's a lot more likely Ventress or Durge tracking down GO-TO and ending him. Also, I'm pretty sure that, if UB rushes to strike a planet, they'll win, no matter the location. With the initial forces, I don't see how DS can stop a full-scale attack by UB. Now Beni, it's up to you to decide which planet they would attack, and if that would lead UB to victory.

[Beniboybling]

OK, I haven't made much of a dent in the thread and I may be rather busy tommorow, so expect a result Monday evening at the latest. I'll try my best to get it out before then.

[Beniboybling]

I'd just like to point out that G0-T0 is unlikely to authorise the use of planet wide bioweapons on Geonosis or any planet for that matter. Not only does G0-T0 need the Geonosian population to build, repair and maintain his droid foundries but Geonosis is also a key component in the stability of the Galactic Economy. In particular the planet's famed and unmatched droid foundries were important suppliers to major companies such as the Techno Union and Baktoid Armor Workshop. Even before the onset of the Clone Wars:

 

The Republic encouraged the growth of such local industry as part of an idealist push for galactic cohesion and the spread of technology to the farthest corners of the galaxy.

 

I think G0-T0 would simply see Geonosis as too vital for future galactic stability and in particular the future infrastructure and development of the Outer Rim which is effectively the real world equivalent of a third-world country.

 

However this won't prevent G0-T0 from using area-effect bioweapons like Trihexalon which only effect biologicals within the blast radius with short term effects.

[StarSquirrel]

I'd just like to point out that G0-T0 is unlikely to authorise the use of planet wide bioweapons on Geonosis or any planet for that matter. Not only does G0-T0 need the Geonosian population to build, repair and maintain his droid foundries but Geonosis is also a key component in the stability of the Galactic Economy. In particular the planet's famed and unmatched droid foundries were important suppliers to major companies such as the Techno Union and Baktoid Armor Workshop. Even before the onset of the Clone Wars:

 

The Republic encouraged the growth of such local industry as part of an idealist push for galactic cohesion and the spread of technology to the farthest corners of the galaxy.

 

I think G0-T0 would simply see Geonosis as too vital for future galactic stability and in particular the future infrastructure and development of the Outer Rim which is effectively the real world equivalent of a third-world country.

 

However this won't prevent G0-T0 from using area-effect bioweapons like Trihexalon which only effect biologicals within the blast radius with short term effects.

 

I agree fully with this.

 

Now people have limited the effectiveness of gas, however what about bio agents? There have been tons of diseases engineered to be species specific, could the DS get a hold of any for Sith/Massassi? (btw anything that could kill one could kill both) If they could, then G0-T0 could just coat the planet in it and there'd be no way for the Massassi to survive and most of the Sith would probably kick the bucket too.

 

Also, Ventress and Durge (less so Durge) aren't well known for finding targets so much as once a target is found they do the actual killing. I just don't see G0-T0 being found before PROXY, Guri, or HK-01 find a way to get to Malgus. G0-T0 has a stealthed ship, a reliable intel network, and sufficient forces/production to force Malgus into a slugging match to take his planets. G0-T0 is also a droid, he'll live longer. Imagine they fight for years, G0-T0 can wait and keep trying to kill while staying perfectly safe, Malgus isn't so patient and he'll be on the front lines much of the time.

 

Also, lets say he goes to Kamino. What is there to stop G0-T0 from rigging some platforms to blow?

 

Annnnddddd I still say PROXY could impersonate a navigation officer or technician and plot a course for Malgus's ship into a sun or planet. On top of that Guri could try the same. Imagine, PROXY gets caught, only to be replaced by Guri... They think they've stopped the assassin and *BAM* they all fly into a black hole.

 

Even simpler but riskier, they plant a beacon on board Malgus's flagship and have the entire fleet (twice the size of UB's) jump in on top of it to destroy it and any fighters/shuttles leaving it.

 

also, can the DS's Black Sun fleet with the Exchange supplier equip Mass Driver Cannons or Stealth Tech onto their ships? Either one would change things considerably.

[Beniboybling]

I agree fully with this.

 

Now people have limited the effectiveness of gas, however what about bio agents? There have been tons of diseases engineered to be species specific, could the DS get a hold of any for Sith/Massassi? (btw anything that could kill one could kill both) If they could, then G0-T0 could just coat the planet in it and there'd be no way for the Massassi to survive and most of the Sith would probably kick the bucket too.

 

Also, Ventress and Durge (less so Durge) aren't well known for finding targets so much as once a target is found they do the actual killing. I just don't see G0-T0 being found before PROXY, Guri, or HK-01 find a way to get to Malgus. G0-T0 has a stealthed ship, a reliable intel network, and sufficient forces/production to force Malgus into a slugging match to take his planets. G0-T0 is also a droid, he'll live longer. Imagine they fight for years, G0-T0 can wait and keep trying to kill while staying perfectly safe, Malgus isn't so patient and he'll be on the front lines much of the time.

 

Also, lets say he goes to Kamino. What is there to stop G0-T0 from rigging some platforms to blow?

 

Annnnddddd I still say PROXY could impersonate a navigation officer or technician and plot a course for Malgus's ship into a sun or planet. On top of that Guri could try the same. Imagine, PROXY gets caught, only to be replaced by Guri... They think they've stopped the assassin and *BAM* they all fly into a black hole.

 

Even simpler but riskier, they plant a beacon on board Malgus's flagship and have the entire fleet (twice the size of UB's) jump in on top of it to destroy it and any fighters/shuttles leaving it.

 

also, can the DS's Black Sun fleet with the Exchange supplier equip Mass Driver Cannons or Stealth Tech onto their ships? Either one would change things considerably.

Its highly unlikely that their will be a bio agent that specifically targets Massassai, not only are they an ancient and therefore rare species (that technology likely didn't even exist in their time of existence) but Massassai are beings of dark side energy, and likely are resistant to conventional poison and the like.

 

And I wouldn't say the Supremacy can slap just about anything on their ships. However we can use Empire at War as a reference, note the Black Market tech the Zann Consortium used to upgrade its forces:

 

 

• Disruptor rifles
  
• Core overload
  
• Proximity mines
  
• Buzz droids
  
• Cloaking devices
  
• Point-defense laser cannons
  
• Sensor jammers
  
• Carbonite missiles
  
• Shield leeching devices
  

 

These are the kinds of tech that the Supremacy will have available to them.

[StarSquirrel]

Its highly unlikely that their will be a bio agent that specifically targets Massassai, not only are they an ancient and therefore rare species (that technology likely didn't even exist in their time of existence) but Massassai are beings of dark side energy, and likely are resistant to conventional poison and the like.

 

And I wouldn't say the Supremacy can slap just about anything on their ships. However we can use Empire at War as a reference, note the Black Market tech the Zann Consortium used to upgrade its forces:

 

 

• Disruptor rifles
  
• Core overload
  
• Proximity mines
  
• Buzz droids
  
• Cloaking devices
  
• Point-defense laser cannons
  
• Sensor jammers
  
• Carbonite missiles
  
• Shield leeching devices
  

 

These are the kinds of tech that the Supremacy will have available to them.

 

The mines over Dac or in Geonosis's asteroid belt could be brutal.

• PD turrets make any projectile weapons largely ineffective.
  
• Sensor Jammers can cover for mines, boarding parties, and stealthed ships.
  
• Disruptor rifles will tear apart Sith as they close. Imagine a charging wall up Sith suddenly evaporate. And if they try to hit the tunnels, a few of these will easily halt a force without ranged attack.
  
• Cloaking Devices would allow a few blockade runners to get into the Sith fleet and drive several tons of explosives (hopefully nuclear) into Malgus's ship (on which PROXY has already placed a beacon). This is on top of the usual military applications such as traps.
  

 

This isn't looking very good for UB imo...