Kaggath Tournament - Droid Supremacy vs Undying Brotherhood

[Aurbere]

I'm pretty certain that the fault in the tactical capabilities of the battle droids can be easily exploited by the Sith forces.

 

Also remember that Grievous obviously knows how limited the battle droids are in this area.

[Beniboybling]

Depends, if you read my scenario (in which his forces get surrounded) he will die just as Mace Windu/Obi-wan/ Anakin ect... would have died had Yoda not showed up. I take the position that his forces will be surrounded and decimated. Oh, and HK-01 might just send a little tidbit to Malgus's own droids that he is their primary target. Imagine a dozen spider and dwarf spider walkers lighting his backside up at once while he has to facetank the entire droid army from the front.

 

Also, Malgus prefers the direct approach. (maybe a little trickery int he rear later) But if you've seen the hope trailer, or read about his fighting on Ord Ramada you know he fights head-on.

 

Also, I misworded that. If he fights in the battle he'll die. That better?

But the point is thanks to Malgus' tactical skill and the position of the spider droids (legs exposed to the units around them or simply not present/near Malgus) he is unlikely to be surrounded. And really a few dozen spider droids already surrounded themselves are not going to be nearly enough to flank Malgus' forces.

 

I agree they will do some damage, but they are simply not numerous enough to wipe out his entire force. And yes, Malgus prefers the direct approach, but don't confused that for reckless all out charges dedicating your entire unit to one position. He'll like attack on multiple fronts, each offensive designed to assist the other, using the enviroment and the enemies weaknesses to his advantage. Do not expect this to be a full on charge across desert planes where his forces are completely exposed to aerial fire and artillery.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Beniboybling

[tunewalker]

...that's nice.

 

about body armor real quick guns like http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/A280 will have no problem with the sith armor and I am certain there are plenty of armor piercing guns in the DS arsenal so armor wont be much use.

 

All in all I would think an unnamed sith warrior or "cannon fodder" sith warrior worth breaks down like this.

 

Named Sith or jedi = 2-6 Sith warriors (Malgus I would say is worth 4 or 5 this isn't including tactics)

Named Bounty hunter, trooper, or Skill smuggler or special forces member= 2-3 Sith warriors (look at the Hope trailer Jacen shows this perfectly)

Unamed Jedi or sith= 1 Sith warrior Obviously guys of a similar caliber not much different and would normally be taken on case by case basis but this is about equal

Unamed special forces unit= 1-1/5th Sith warrior depending on the skill of the unnamed special forces units they can either be equal to a sith warrior or the sith warrior is worth up to 5 of them.

A special forces member can be worth some where between 5-50 cannon fodder soldiers depending on the quality of the spec force member and the cannon fodder soldier.

With all this I would say 1 sith warrior is worth approxamitly 3 massassi warriors and 1 sith warrior is worth around 120 B1's and 60 B2's but only worth 1 Droideka.

 

Given the numbers we have said for geonosis being a cannon fodder sith warrior means something they aren't on the same cannon fodder lvl as the droids obviously but they are still no Malgus by a long shot and can still be taken out just like any one by overwhelming numbers and positioning something the DS has in spades.

[Wolfninjajedi]

about body armor real quick guns like http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/A280 will have no problem with the sith armor and I am certain there are plenty of armor piercing guns in the DS arsenal so armor wont be much use.

 

All in all I would think an unnamed sith warrior or "cannon fodder" sith warrior worth breaks down like this.

 

Named Sith or jedi = 2-6 Sith warriors (Malgus I would say is worth 4 or 5 this isn't including tactics)

Named Bounty hunter, trooper, or Skill smuggler or special forces member= 2-3 Sith warriors (look at the Hope trailer Jacen shows this perfectly)

Unamed Jedi or sith= 1 Sith warrior Obviously guys of a similar caliber not much different and would normally be taken on case by case basis but this is about equal

Unamed special forces unit= 1-1/5th Sith warrior depending on the skill of the unnamed special forces units they can either be equal to a sith warrior or the sith warrior is worth up to 5 of them.

A special forces member can be worth some where between 5-50 cannon fodder soldiers depending on the quality of the spec force member and the cannon fodder soldier.

With all this I would say 1 sith warrior is worth approxamitly 3 massassi warriors and 1 sith warrior is worth around 120 B1's and 60 B2's but only worth 1 Droideka.

 

Given the numbers we have said for geonosis being a cannon fodder sith warrior means something they aren't on the same cannon fodder lvl as the droids obviously but they are still no Malgus by a long shot and can still be taken out just like any one by overwhelming numbers and positioning something the DS has in spades.

 

That is actually a pretty nice breakdown in regards to fodder Tune.

[StarSquirrel]

But the point is thanks to Malgus' tactical skill and the position of the spider droids (legs exposed to the units around them or simply not present/near Malgus) he is unlikely to be surrounded. And really a few dozen spider droids already surrounded themselves are not going to be nearly enough to flank Malgus' forces.

 

I agree they will do some damage, but they are simply not numerous enough to wipe out his entire force. And yes, Malgus prefers the direct approach, but don't confused that for reckless all out charges dedicating your entire unit to one position. He'll like attack on multiple fronts, each offensive designed to assist the other, using the enviroment and the enemies weaknesses to his advantage. Do not expect this to be a full on charge across desert planes where his forces are completely exposed to aerial fire and artillery.

 

Melee will not act like the ranged forces of the Droid Army. Their spider droids wont walk amongst their troops, rather to their rear. So there will most definitely be a point at which everyone has some range between them and the melee. at that point the Melee will be totally unsuspecting of the massive barrage about to slam them in the rear.

 

Also, the Spider droids can climb cliffs and stay well away from the melee units.

Edited September 3, 2013 by StarSquirrel

[tunewalker]

That is actually a pretty nice breakdown in regards to fodder Tune.

 

Thank you wolf I try I think the only thing I missed was vehicle grade stuff but they are a lot harder to judge so I kind of would only want to do that on case to case basis.

[Aurbere]

about body armor real quick guns like http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/A280 will have no problem with the sith armor and I am certain there are plenty of armor piercing guns in the DS arsenal so armor wont be much use.

 

All in all I would think an unnamed sith warrior or "cannon fodder" sith warrior worth breaks down like this.

 

Named Sith or jedi = 2-6 Sith warriors (Malgus I would say is worth 4 or 5 this isn't including tactics)

Named Bounty hunter, trooper, or Skill smuggler or special forces member= 2-3 Sith warriors (look at the Hope trailer Jacen shows this perfectly)

Unamed Jedi or sith= 1 Sith warrior Obviously guys of a similar caliber not much different and would normally be taken on case by case basis but this is about equal

Unamed special forces unit= 1-1/5th Sith warrior depending on the skill of the unnamed special forces units they can either be equal to a sith warrior or the sith warrior is worth up to 5 of them.

A special forces member can be worth some where between 5-50 cannon fodder soldiers depending on the quality of the spec force member and the cannon fodder soldier.

With all this I would say 1 sith warrior is worth approxamitly 3 massassi warriors and 1 sith warrior is worth around 120 B1's and 60 B2's but only worth 1 Droideka.

 

Given the numbers we have said for geonosis being a cannon fodder sith warrior means something they aren't on the same cannon fodder lvl as the droids obviously but they are still no Malgus by a long shot and can still be taken out just like any one by overwhelming numbers and positioning something the DS has in spades.

 

That's a fair assessment, but I'm not sure if a single warrior is worth nearly two hundred droids, though. But I'm not entirely sure on the Jedi : Droid ratio in the arena battle.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Aurbere

[tunewalker]

That's a fair assessment, but I'm not sure if a single warrior is worth nearly two hundred droids, though. But I'm not entirely sure on the Jedi:Droid ratio in the arena battle.

 

not sure myself I try to get as close an assessment as I can I am sure there are some numbers that can be tweeked one way or another and I am not saying they are worth 200 droids 1 is around 120 b1's, or 60 b2's or 1 droidaka not all of that combined again my assessment could be slightly off and I would say if its off it would be by no more then 30 B1's no more then 20 B2's give or take that being said it still wont help them since in the end there are still to many by the time they arrive for them to win a straight war.

[Aurbere]

not sure myself I try to get as close an assessment as I can I am sure there are some numbers that can be tweeked one way or another and I am not saying they are worth 200 droids 1 is around 120 b1's, or 60 b2's or 1 droidaka not all of that combined again my assessment could be slightly off and I would say if its off it would be by no more then 30 B1's no more then 20 B2's give or take that being said it still wont help them since in the end there are still to many by the time they arrive for them to win a straight war.

 

Well, I'll agree that the Sith Warriors are worth a great deal of battle droids.

[Wolfninjajedi]

In regards to the armor of the SW being penetrated...not so sure on that, if they really do have durasteel armor that is gonna be hard to punch through given it's one of the toughest metals in the galaxy. It might stagger some, but depending on the firepower the droids have it's gonna take some to get through the armor.

[tunewalker]

In regards to the armor of the SW being penetrated...not so sure on that, if they really do have durasteel armor that is gonna be hard to punch through given it's one of the toughest metals in the galaxy. It might stagger some, but depending on the firepower the droids have it's gonna take some to get through the armor.

 

well if they have any guns like the one I linked then durasteel shouldn't make much of a difference those blasters didn't just break storm trooper armor it went through it and tore the person in half in the process it was heavy armor piercing rounds.

[StarSquirrel]

In regards to the blasters used by the B1's-

E-5 blaster rifle was a powerful, light, but somewhat inaccurate weapon.

Durasteel could probably protect the wearer from a glancing blow, but a more direct hit would likely put them down.

 

and better yet the B2's get Laser Cannons which are easily powerful enough to cut through durasteel

 

Also note, Durasteel is never mentioned as being blast resistant. Like anything, the thickness is critical. I don't think they can wear thick enough durasteel to be invincible and still move. Also, as we see in the Deceived and Hope trailers, not many of those Sith wore thick armor, mostly robes with a few plates over important areas (and we cannot confirm that that was durasteel as opposed to some other metal or plastic). Dedicated Juggernaughts with heavy armor where not that common though they did appear in small numbers.

[Beniboybling]

about body armor real quick guns like http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/A280 will have no problem with the sith armor and I am certain there are plenty of armor piercing guns in the DS arsenal so armor wont be much use...

Lol, tune you can't just spam any weapon (especially one that didn't even exist in the time period) and use it as an argument. None of the battle droids are equipped with these rifles or anything remotely similar, and G0-T0 simply does not have the means to equip hundreds of thousands of droids with them.

In regards to the blasters used by the B1's-

Durasteel could probably protect the wearer from a glancing blow, but a more direct hit would likely put them down.

 

and better yet the B2's get Laser Cannons which are easily powerful enough to cut through durasteel

 

Also note, Durasteel is never mentioned as being blast resistant. Like anything, the thickness is critical. I don't think they can wear thick enough durasteel to be invincible and still move. Also, as we see in the Deceived and Hope trailers, not many of those Sith wore thick armor, mostly robes with a few plates over important areas (and we cannot confirm that that was durasteel as opposed to some other metal or plastic). Dedicated Juggernaughts with heavy armor where not that common though they did appear in small numbers.

Actually the Sith in the Decieved and Hope trailers were armored from head to foot in - according to the SWTOR Encyclopedia - durasteel armour that could "withstand direct blaster fire." of which was customary for all Sith Warriors.

 

I mean really, take a good look at that armor, do you really think it would be so easily penetrate by mere blasterfire? I expect it could take a few hits from laser cannons too. Though these projectiles have to bypass their lightsabers first.

[Beniboybling]

Melee will not act like the ranged forces of the Droid Army. Their spider droids wont walk amongst their troops, rather to their rear. So there will most definitely be a point at which everyone has some range between them and the melee. at that point the Melee will be totally unsuspecting of the massive barrage about to slam them in the rear.

 

Also, the Spider droids can climb cliffs and stay well away from the melee units.

But the nature of a spider droid allows them to walk amongst their troops without getting in the way. The bulk of the droid is suspended in the air by four long appendages that cover a relatively small surface area. Meaning they can easily move amongst a charging army of warriors without getting in the way. Which would make them far more effective than they would be hiding out at the rear. Whereas the smaller units will have to either be on walls (if there are any) or similar not present, as they are too slow to be at the front and too low lying to get a shot at the back.

 

And again, a few dozen spider droids won't cause as massive a barrage as you think.

[tunewalker]

Lol, tune you can't just spam any weapon (especially one that didn't even exist in the time period) and use it as an argument. None of the battle droids are equipped with these rifles or anything remotely similar, and G0-T0 simply does not have the means to equip hundreds of thousands of droids with them.

Actually the Sith in the Decieved and Hope trailers were armored from head to foot in - according to the SWTOR Encyclopedia - durasteel armour that could "withstand direct blaster fire." of which was customary for all Sith Warriors.

 

I mean really, take a good look at that armor, do you really think it would be so easily penetrate by mere blasterfire? I expect it could take a few hits from laser cannons too. Though these projectiles have to bypass their lightsabers first.

 

eh I thought I would give it a shot lol, still doesn't change the overall I believe smaller arms fire can still break through durasteel after a time and I still don't think a Sith warrior is worth more then 150 B1's

[Warren-Stride]

Lol, tune you can't just spam any weapon (especially one that didn't even exist in the time period) and use it as an argument. None of the battle droids are equipped with these rifles or anything remotely similar, and G0-T0 simply does not have the means to equip hundreds of thousands of droids with them.

 

Lol, since when does time period matter in a Kaggath that uses forces from over the course of over 4,000 years?

 

Even if G0-T0 can't outfit all of the droids, the Exchange IS a weapons trafficking ring. He could definitely supply more powerful blasters, rocket launchers, sonic weapons (awwwww yeah), and grenades to the battle droids, even if it's only for a portion of them.

 

P.S. Gonna be indisposed for most of the day today, sorry. Thanks for the support guys!

[tunewalker]

Lol, since when does time period matter in a Kaggath that uses forces from over the course of over 4,000 years?

 

Even if G0-T0 can't outfit all of the droids, the Exchange IS a weapons trafficking ring. He could definitely supply more powerful blasters, rocket launchers, sonic weapons (awwwww yeah), and grenades to the battle droids, even if it's only for a portion of them.

 

P.S. Gonna be indisposed for most of the day today, sorry. Thanks for the support guys!

 

And thanks to being droids they can skimp on some of the safety features because if the weapon overheats and becomes hot to the touch the droids aren't going to care.

[Wolfninjajedi]

well if they have any guns like the one I linked then durasteel shouldn't make much of a difference those blasters didn't just break storm trooper armor it went through it and tore the person in half in the process it was heavy armor piercing rounds.

 

While right that is an A280 blaster rifle, one of the best armor piercing blasters made. In regards to them cutting a Stormtrooper in half, Stormtroopers don't wear durasteel armor...they wear plastoid over a black body glove while the Stormtrooper armor can take some blaster shots, usually armor piercing is gonna kill em.

[tunewalker]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Blaster

 

"Blaster bolts usually dissipated in a small, but violent, explosion of extreme heat and force upon contact with an unshielded surface, sometimes leaving blast points. Weapons such as Han Solo's DL-44 heavy blaster pistol and the E-11 blaster rifle could cause incredible destruction, and had the power to blow large chunks from stone walls and smaller holes and pockmarks out of durasteel bulkheads, as seen in Han Solo and Luke Skywalker's raid on Detention Block AA-23. An ion accelerator used an electrical charge to stun or kill enemies. "

 

 

 

The E-11 wasn't really any more armor piercing then the droids E-5's and yet it could still blow holes in durasteel. nearly any blaster with military grade punch is going to put a hole (some smaller then others) in durasteel.

 

 

Edit: I always compare Plastoid to the Kevlar of starwars its not as tough normally in comparison to things like Iron but it will stop a bullet better because its what its designed to do.

Edited September 3, 2013 by tunewalker

[StarSquirrel]

Lol, tune you can't just spam any weapon (especially one that didn't even exist in the time period) and use it as an argument. None of the battle droids are equipped with these rifles or anything remotely similar, and G0-T0 simply does not have the means to equip hundreds of thousands of droids with them.

Actually the Sith in the Decieved and Hope trailers were armored from head to foot in - according to the SWTOR Encyclopedia - durasteel armour that could "withstand direct blaster fire." of which was customary for all Sith Warriors.

 

I mean really, take a good look at that armor, do you really think it would be so easily penetrate by mere blasterfire? I expect it could take a few hits from laser cannons too. Though these projectiles have to bypass their lightsabers first.

 

You're presenting some sad, sad arguments Beni... I'm showing you evidence, you're saying "well just look at that! There is no WAY it can be shot through!" and showing no sources as to why. But guess what, republic soldiers did it all the time with standard blasters themselves. And no way in hell that it can stop laser cannons. There are shields that can't take more than 1-2 laser cannon blasts. That is total assumption and BS.

 

That said, the E-5 blaster is not any ordinary blaster.

The weapon had a large gas chamber that allowed for powerful blasts. It was originally a BlasTech design that was reverse-engineered by Baktoid Armor Workshop for use by its droid troopers. The fact that the weapon was intended for use by non-living wielders allowed BAW to skimp on some of the finer points -such as the fact that short barreled weapons are comparatively fragile and produce great deal of heat over repeated firings. While these factors might inconvenience a human soldier, a Baktoid Battle Droid has no complaints.

Because they were using non-living soldiers, they souped the gun up and made it smaller. This thing deals more damage per shot (and gets more shots faster for longer) as a result but is less accurate (hence the Napoleonic type fighting on Geonosis). These aren't the blasters of the TOR era, they are mentioned as being more powerful than a normal blaster (which is already noted as being capable of penetrating durasteel.)

[StarSquirrel]

But the nature of a spider droid allows them to walk amongst their troops without getting in the way. The bulk of the droid is suspended in the air by four long appendages that cover a relatively small surface area. Meaning they can easily move amongst a charging army of warriors without getting in the way. Which would make them far more effective than they would be hiding out at the rear. Whereas the smaller units will have to either be on walls (if there are any) or similar not present, as they are too slow to be at the front and too low lying to get a shot at the back.

 

And again, a few dozen spider droids won't cause as massive a barrage as you think.

 

Beni, why the hell would you want your ranged units that are intentionally designed to be above the infantry and have good range be moving with your Melee forces? Just because they can? you know better than to make that argument. They are a form of Artillery (like these), not tanks so get that straight first. They move at the rear of a line (though in the droid army they can move with their ranged counterparts which is the ability you mentioned) and fire from a distance. This also allows them not to become targets (and with their flimsy design they really don't want to be targeted) as the enemy is more likely to be focused on the closer, more immediate enemies. Also, the UB might have a few dozen, but the DS can build them as well so there are easily more than 50 between the two forces. In those numbers with the ability to

scythe down troop formations

They could easily devastate an unsuspecting army, though I agree they wouldn't kill everything, but they'd sure help. Especially if DS's are stationed vertically on cliffs like they're capable of, way out of reach for the melee forces and just sweep their laser across the battlefield.

the homing spider could walk along the bottom of seabeds, fully submerged in water, as well as scale steep cliffs.

Also, UB has Drawf Spider Droids which will likely walk with the sith/massassi, these will be less effective in the way you forsee but they'll be able to bring down a few sith with their anti-vehicle rounds or mow down a line of Massassi with their high rate of fire anti-personnel rounds.

Edited September 3, 2013 by StarSquirrel

[Selenial]

*Whispers* Talking down to Beni like that was not your best idea star...... You'll incur his wrath!!!!!!

[Beniboybling]

Lol, since when does time period matter in a Kaggath that uses forces from over the course of over 4,000 years?

 

Even if G0-T0 can't outfit all of the droids, the Exchange IS a weapons trafficking ring. He could definitely supply more powerful blasters, rocket launchers, sonic weapons (awwwww yeah), and grenades to the battle droids, even if it's only for a portion of them.

 

P.S. Gonna be indisposed for most of the day today, sorry. Thanks for the support guys!

I was merely pointing out that there is no chance in hell that the Trade Federation Army would be equipped with weapons that haven't been invented yet. Yes they will be available on the black market, but does the black market have the means of equipping hundreds of thousands of battle droids and then some?

 

I suppose its definitely a possibility.

 

EDIT: Again for G0-T0 its all about time. He needs to build shield generators, build droids, equip droids, rally mercenaries, plant sleeper agents etc. the more time G0-T0 has to prepare, the better the battle will go in his favour.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Beniboybling

[marcelo_sdk]

I'm sorry, but why, of a sudden, my droids are attacking me? DS has no Spider Droids, Trade Federation had access to them via Commerce Guild, but not on his own. And If HK-01 could really hack droids, which no one has explained exactly how happens, Malgus would never take them to Geonosis. Perhaps he would take a decoy to trace HK's position, but never a force capable of disrupt his plans.

[Selenial]

You're presenting some sad, sad arguments Beni...

 

You spelt Sane wrong.