Kaggath Tournament - Droid Supremacy vs Undying Brotherhood

[Selenial]

There would be no 'leaders' held up in it. Just machines making machines. And sure you could take down the biggest factory, but it will only put a dent in their already massive production capabilities. Nor will it help the actual ground battle in any way, it will merely have long term effects.

 

Well, apparently Malgus is there, and apparently Guri, Proxy and the like will be all out going for him.

 

Besides, Ventress could do the Prime factory, and some Assassins from the Sith Forces go to the smaller ones, it all works the same way, and if done simultaneously.... That's a big hit.

 

Besides, Once the factories are down, what's to stop the UB just leaving Geonosis Blockaded, or Nuking the rest of the droids?

 

 

Edit: Did you get my PM?

Edited September 2, 2013 by Selenial

[Beniboybling]

Well, apparently Malgus is there, and apparently Guri, Proxy and the like will be all out going for him.

 

Besides, Ventress could do the Prime factory, and some Assassins from the Sith Forces go to the smaller ones, it all works the same way, and if done simultaneously.... That's a big hit.

 

Besides, Once the factories are down, what's to stop the UB just leaving Geonosis Blockaded, or Nuking the rest of the droids?

 

 

Edit: Did you get my PM?

But nobody will be sitting about in the factory, twiddling their thumbs, waiting for it to blow.

 

But yes if none simultaneously it would be more effective (you don't have assassins, just Sith and Durge etc.) however G0-T0 may have put some mechanisms in place to prevent such an attack, or will react to them.

[marcelo_sdk]

Last I read, it was the latter.

 

That's up for us to debate and come to a conclusion. I personally think that, at first, he would try to use it for his own forces. But I'm sure he would have no holdouts to destroy them if it's the only way.

Edited September 2, 2013 by marcelo_sdk

[Selenial]

But nobody will be sitting about in the factory, twiddling their thumbs, waiting for it to blow.

 

But yes if none simultaneously it would be more effective (you don't have assassins, just Sith and Durge etc.) however G0-T0 may have put some mechanisms in place to prevent such an attack, or will react to them.

 

Did you get my PM?

 

Perhaps you're right... People would be in the factory... Or the Sith's job just got so much easier. And yeh, I just noticed it said Warriors not Sith... So they don't get the Assassins....

[Wolfninjajedi]

I have noticed throughout...while everyone keeps bringing up Ventress, Malgus, PROXY...no one seems to have mentioned Durge. Or at least at length....let me just post some things that...well show who he is. Ahem...

=============

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/ebar0159/duege/1.jpg

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/ebar0159/duege/2.jpg

 

- A showing of moving quick with a jetpack, taking out some clones and then taking out Obi-Wan with one hit with his electric boa.

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/ebar0159/duege/4.jpg

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/ebar0159/duege/5.jpg

 

- Uses said electric boa on Anakin, then proceeds to take on another Jedi, gets stabbed by another Jedi shrugging off the attack before taking her out.

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/ebar0159/duege/6.jpg

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/ebar0159/duege/7.jpg

 

- Tanks a shot through the head, doesn't seem really phased. He then notes that he was just toying with them.

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/ebar0159/duege/8.jpg

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/ebar0159/duege/9.jpg

 

- Resistance to Mind Tricks, proceeds to then beat down Obi-Wan after dodging his attack from behind.

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/ebar0159/duege/14.jpg

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/ebar0159/duege/16.jpg

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/ebar0159/duege/17.jpg

 

- Tanks his own blaster shots then later appears fine to beat the crap outta Alpha.

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/ebar0159/duege/B.jpg

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/ebar0159/duege/H.jpg

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/ebar0159/duege/I.jpg

 

- States he sees Jedi in slow motion, dodges Anakin's attack and then beats the **** outta him.

======

 

Lets also not forget folks, it took firing him into a Star to actually get rid of him. Tbh, I ain't seeing much of anything of what the droids would be able to do to him.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Good god, that guy is deadly.

[StarSquirrel]

-snip-

 

Shhhhhhh, don't tell anyone and maybe he'll just go away...

 

But yeah Durge is pretty freakin scary, not sure they even need Malgus on the ground with Durge around, he could probably lead the army himself. He is in fact an excellent ground force general.

[Selenial]

Good god, that guy is deadly.

 

*wonders if Beni knew much about Durge before letting him in the Kaggath*

 

Let's not forget he Swallowed Obi-Wan Kenobi, who let off a huge Force Repulse inside him.... And he still survived.

 

His gunk and body were scattered all over the building and he lived.

[Aurbere]

Good god, that guy is deadly.

 

It's called 'being awesome.'

[Aurbere]

That's up for us to debate and come to a conclusion. I personally think that, at first, he would try to use it for his own forces. But I'm sure he would have no holdouts to destroy them if it's the only way.

 

I think it's obvious that Malgus will try to use the factories.

[tunewalker]

I think it's obvious that Malgus will try to use the factories.

 

if he does it will only work against him because of HK-01 in the end he may be able to get in and destroy the factories but only at great cost and it will truly be to late as the army needed to fight off his troops will have already been built.

 

People put to much stock in those sith warriors they are not named sith they are still nameless sith grunts and can still be taken down my being overwhelmed by numbers.

 

Durge while near unkillable is perfectly able to be incapacitated even for months at a time which is all you have to do once incapacitated he can either be kept that way or the battle or objective by GO-TO is already done.

[StarSquirrel]

Ok So Marcelo has been thowing a few things around that I'd like to clear up.

 

Firstly- The UB will try to hide the make-up of their force as best they can (standard military practice) they aren't stupid. That said, it wont matter as G0-T0's vast intel network will pick up on it easily and he'll have plenty of time to prepare. Also, he is right in that they wont send their entire force, but they will send a majority as Beni mentioned they just sit in the entrance to Sith Space with some gravity well generators and wait.

 

Secondly- Geonosis, you grossly overestimate your forces. Firstly, you have quite the archaic army/society so hacking/tracing are not in your skill set. Even if you could G0-T0 would be smart enough to use proxy servers ect... through his entire empire essentially made of computers and so you'd be chasing a phantom for months before getting close to tracing HK-01's signal. Also, you make some kind of point about your (minimal) droid heavy weapons... no they will turn on you the second the battle starts thanks to HK-01 who most of us agree is fully capable of hacking your droids (regardless of your own opinion). And if Sith and Massassi get caught in no-mans land between your droids and the DS droids at the beginning, then the cross fire will eradicate them. Good luck replacing that many Sith and Massassi (which btw Beni said only come from Yavin).

 

Ventress might do some damage to one of the factories and Durge would be an issue but if Malgus fights with his army, he'll die. (hence why I think Durge just might be the commander on the ground.

 

Thirdly- you need to start backing up some of your arguments please. If you think someone could 'easily' do something provide at the least a link and quote to a wookieepedia article that supports your assumptions.

 

Now, to clarify what I have as a scenario right now, Malgus leads the bulk of his force to attack Geonosis. This takes between 5-10 days depending on G0-T0's success at delaying him. During this time Geonosis is amassing a huge droid army. G0-T0's fleet cannot directly attack Malgus's fleet atm so they withdraw leaving the planet to fend for itself with its planetary shield. Malgus finally arrives and drops his forces on the planet in an effort to secure the factories and bring down the shield. On the open plains of Geonosis, a massive formation of sith and Massassi with their droid walkers at their rear advance against the droid army arrayed before them. Sniper droids, B1's B2's and Droidekars open fire but much of this fire is deflected by the forward line of Sith. As the Sith charge the droids, they reach a no-man's land between the droids in front and their droids in the rear. At this point HK-01 goes live and the Sith and Massassi are caught in a massive crossfire of heavy and anti-infantry fire while the DS has its tanks close from the flanks. The Sith/Massassi are now surrounded and it is the stadium all over again.

 

From here the ships in orbit are exploding, venting, and crashing into the planet thanks to sabotage by the utility droids on board. Malgus manages to escape with Grievous and between 1/3 and 1/2 of his fleet. He limps back to Sith Space and waits for G0-T0 while he rebuilds his army.

 

Now G0-T0 can start to see major returns on his production. His first batches of capital ships from Mon Cal are finishing up, his droid factories are wrapping up repairs from Ventress's sabotage, and his cloning facilities are likely completing the first wave of Terror Droids.

 

The UB is busy training new Sith and harnessing a new army of Massassi. In the time it takes their forces are likely replenished to something beyond their original quantity though the quality is lesser. They've also developed an impressive mass of fighter to send against the DS thanks to production at Lianna.

 

Up to this time pirate raids by G0-T0 have been occasional and UB has had small Sith strike teams led by Ventress probably searching for G0-T0. No major battles.

 

Now G0-T0 is a droid, and as such is patient. He could theoretically wait until Malgus dies of old age if he tried, but we'll just forgo that for now in favor of some action. Malgus will return with a force he thinks he can win with. He will probably assault Mon Cal this time. Only now, the Black Sun navy is supported by Mon Cal capital ships, here I am unsure of the outcome.

 

From here on out I see the two stalemating with neither wanting to take the fight to the other. I suspect a lot of assassination attempts will be made, but since G0-T0 is harder to find, I think attrition will just wear Malgus down and it only takes one mistake from him to fall.

Edited September 2, 2013 by StarSquirrel

[Selenial]

Umm... Not sure why we haven't talked about this, But who's to stop Malgus levelling the Fatories with his ships? Not exactly like they can do much to protect it, and Ventress could take out the Planetary shields...

[StarSquirrel]

Umm... Not sure why we haven't talked about this, But who's to stop Malgus levelling the Fatories with his ships? Not exactly like they can do much to protect it, and Ventress could take out the Planetary shields...

 

With the terror droids and Droidekars guarding it ect... I doubt she alone could take it out. That would certainly require a victory on the ground first. So the planetary shields are still in play, on top of that Malgus probably wants those factories to use for himself.

[Beniboybling]

if he does it will only work against him because of HK-01 in the end he may be able to get in and destroy the factories but only at great cost and it will truly be to late as the army needed to fight off his troops will have already been built.

 

People put to much stock in those sith warriors they are not named sith they are still nameless sith grunts and can still be taken down my being overwhelmed by numbers.

 

Durge while near unkillable is perfectly able to be incapacitated even for months at a time which is all you have to do once incapacitated he can either be kept that way or the battle or objective by GO-TO is already done.

I beg to differ, taken from post #237:

 

==============================

 

Sith Warriors: To quote the Old Republic Encyclopedia:

 

Millions strive to become Sith, but many prove too weak to earn the honor. Among the powerful survivors, only the most stalwart and aggressive warriors possess the relentless tenacity to lead the forefront of the Empire's war. Charging into the fray with fearsome battle cries and deadly lightsabers, Sith warriors break their enemies with sheer dominating will and crush any foe that doesn't flee from their unforgiving march. The most triumphant warriors inspire legions of allies with fear and reverence. Under Sith command, bolstered armies fight with roused passion and pride, often decimating superior numbers with their indomitable assaults. Whether striking for the Empire's glory or for personal renown, there is no more dominating force than the Sith warrior.

 

These warriors will be at the forefront of advancing forces and a combination of saber shields and durasteel armor will protect them and the forces behind them from any kind of hailfire the Supremacy can throw at them, effectively eliminating any ranged advantage they might have. And when they get in close they will decimate the flimsy B1 battle droids and their tank support who will be incapable of firing at close range.

 

==============================

 

Just because one is unnamed and not explored in Star Wars lore does not make one a 'grunt' - they are highly powerful warriors and should not be dismissed as some kind of cannon fodder.

[Beniboybling]

Ventress might do some damage to one of the factories and Durge would be an issue but if Malgus fights with his army, he'll die. (hence why I think Durge just might be the commander on the ground.

Not an if a but or a maybe? Malgus will die if his boots touch the ground? Exactly how many battles has Malgus been in and survived? Likely hundreds. And how many against almost insurmountable odds? Likely just as many.

 

Not only is Malgus an incredibly powerful warrior, but he is incredibly resilient. He is also an excellent tactician, which you need to take into account. Malgus won't favour a reckless charge but precision strikes from multiple angles. Whereas the Supremacy has no commanders to speak of. We should also take into account the vulnerability of having all your forces under the control of a single vessel, which if destroyed will shut down the entire army.

 

EDIT: I also doubt the droids will do that much damage, remember we are dealing with spider droids here of which they're will be a dozen or more, and with those long legs and surrounded by melee opponents they will not last long, nor will the smaller units who will most likely be used in smaller operations where they won't get in the way of charging warriors.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

Umm... Not sure why we haven't talked about this, But who's to stop Malgus levelling the Fatories with his ships? Not exactly like they can do much to protect it, and Ventress could take out the Planetary shields...

The entire planet is not shielded, but in the Second Battle of Geonosis we see that the droid factories are protected by ray shields. Multiple ray shields.

[StarSquirrel]

Not an if a but or a maybe? Malgus will die if his boots touch the ground? Exactly how many battles has Malgus been in and survived? Likely hundreds. And how many against almost insurmountable odds? Likely just as many.

 

Not only is Malgus an incredibly powerful warrior, but he is incredibly resilient. He is also an excellent tactician, which you need to take into account. Malgus won't favour a reckless charge but precision strikes from multiple angles. Whereas the Supremacy has no commanders to speak of. We should also take into account the vulnerability of having all your forces under the control of a single vessel, which if destroyed will shut down the entire army.

 

Depends, if you read my scenario (in which his forces get surrounded) he will die just as Mace Windu/Obi-wan/ Anakin ect... would have died had Yoda not showed up. I take the position that his forces will be surrounded and decimated. Oh, and HK-01 might just send a little tidbit to Malgus's own droids that he is their primary target. Imagine a dozen spider and dwarf spider walkers lighting his backside up at once while he has to facetank the entire droid army from the front.

 

Also, Malgus prefers the direct approach. (maybe a little trickery int he rear later) But if you've seen the hope trailer, or read about his fighting on Ord Ramada you know he fights head-on.

 

Also, I misworded that. If he fights in the battle he'll die. That better?

Edited September 2, 2013 by StarSquirrel

[Wolfninjajedi]

I beg to differ, taken from post #237:

 

==============================

 

Sith Warriors: To quote the Old Republic Encyclopedia:

 

Millions strive to become Sith, but many prove too weak to earn the honor. Among the powerful survivors, only the most stalwart and aggressive warriors possess the relentless tenacity to lead the forefront of the Empire's war. Charging into the fray with fearsome battle cries and deadly lightsabers, Sith warriors break their enemies with sheer dominating will and crush any foe that doesn't flee from their unforgiving march. The most triumphant warriors inspire legions of allies with fear and reverence. Under Sith command, bolstered armies fight with roused passion and pride, often decimating superior numbers with their indomitable assaults. Whether striking for the Empire's glory or for personal renown, there is no more dominating force than the Sith warrior.

 

These warriors will be at the forefront of advancing forces and a combination of saber shields and durasteel armor will protect them and the forces behind them from any kind of hailfire the Supremacy can throw at them, effectively eliminating any ranged advantage they might have. And when they get in close they will decimate the flimsy B1 battle droids and their tank support who will be incapable of firing at close range.

 

==============================

 

Just because one is unnamed and not explored in Star Wars lore does not make one a 'grunt' - they are highly powerful warriors and should not be dismissed as some kind of cannon fodder.

 

Except Beni....they are cannon fodder. Just like Stormtroopers, Jedi, Clone Troopers...unless named(or plot calls for it) despite what training they have had can easily be killed in battle because that is what they are there for. Now given that this is pretty much cannon fodder vs cannon fodder here, your right as the Sith Warriors would have an edge over the mass produced droids...but they are cannon fodder no matter how well trained.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Selenial]

The entire planet is not shielded, but in the Second Battle of Geonosis we see that the droid factories are protected by ray shields. Multiple ray shields.

 

No we don't.

 

We see Pogguls PRIME Geonosian Factory is protected by ray shields. And all 4 of the Jedi (Bar Unduli) were pit to take out that shield, so really, you can draw the Conclusion that there is only one or 2 at max, Ray Shielded droid foundries.

[Warren-Stride]

We should also take into account the vulnerability of having all your forces under the control of a single vessel, which if destroyed will shut down the entire army.

 

Just pointing out that the Central Control Computer doesn't have to be on a ship, it could be on the surface.

The major addition to the Droid Control Ship was an array of transmitters and broadcasting equipment, which allowed it to control a large battle droid army on a planetary surface. Each ship has two large main antennas and six backup antennas. Sensor equipment included one main sensor rectenna and two auxiliary sensor rectennas. The core ship has two more sensor rectennas.

 

Equally important, the Droid Control Ship was equipped with 16 signal receiver dishes, located around the perimeter of the vessel, to pick up transmissions from droid units. Each of these receiver dishes has a pair of boost panels to squelch noise or interference. The ship was fitted with an extremely powerful Central Control Computer to sort through and process incoming information, formulate commands, and broadcast them to the surface.

 

That sort of equipment could be set up virtually anywhere. G0-T0 already has experience with this, as he used a Central Control Computer himself on his yacht. I would imagine that G0-T0 would recreate a system like his stealthed yacht, puting the computer in the safest place possible. Or even on another stealthed ship the Exchange can provide.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[StarSquirrel]

Hey guys, I think Warren gets Spider Droids as well thanks to the Trade Federation.

 

Prior to the Invasion of Naboo, Baktoid Armor Workshop was a Trade Federation-owned design firm

and

The homing spider droid was developed by Baktoid Armor Workshop prior to its dissolution by the Trade Federation not long after the Invasion of Naboo.

 

So the Trade Federation during the Naboo crisis was in possession of Spider Droid schematics. So Warren has even heavier weapons to bring against the Sith...

 

Imagine a crossfire from two lines of these on either side, I don't care how good your sith are, a great many will die.

The spider walker's chief weapon was a laser emplacement mounted atop the droid's round body. This circular dish fired a precision homing laser that could be maintained until the drone's internal power supply was finished. This sustained firepower allowed the homing spider to weaken shields, destroy armored vehicles and scythe down troop formations.[5]

 

An antipersonnel cannon below the walker's round body could be used for close-quarters combat, while a retractable ion cannon could be added to disable starships or other powerful vehicles. There were also weapon mounts that allowed other armaments to be fixed to the droid. Sensor equipment fitted into the homing spider, enabled it to target and keep track of moving enemy targets

Edited September 2, 2013 by StarSquirrel

[marcelo_sdk]

I think everyone is forgetting how Grievous is important on this Kaggath. He knows DS forces than anyone from DS, he can easily predict the tactics, moves, weakpoints, of the enemy. And, as Beni said, a battle will be raging on space, and if UB manages to take out the Command Ship, which is very likely to happen since their navy is superior in numbers and firepower, all UB has to do is walk in and take the factories.

 

And I doubt GO-TO will be able to get info that easily. It's extremely difficult to enter on Sith space, so physical spies will not come to play.

[StarSquirrel]

I think everyone is forgetting how Grievous is important on this Kaggath. He knows DS forces than anyone from DS, he can easily predict the tactics, moves, weakpoints, of the enemy. And, as Beni said, a battle will be raging on space, and if UB manages to take out the Command Ship, which is very likely to happen since their navy is superior in numbers and firepower, all UB has to do is walk in and take the factories.

 

And I doubt GO-TO will be able to get info that easily. It's extremely difficult to enter on Sith space, so physical spies will not come to play.

 

You forget G0-T0 is a supercomputer right? He can download all droid schematics at his disposal and analyse all possible uses for them near instantaneously. Grievous only knows how he would use them. Granted he would have great knowledge on their abilities, but that doesn't mean that the DS is full of incompetent fools.

 

Also, taking out the command ship (or bunker) will be next to impossible. Lets say G0-T0 keeps it in his personal, cloaked starship, you'll never find it. or say they bury it deep in the planet, you'll never reach it... ect... G0-T0 isn't going to be as cocky as the Trade Federation was, he knows the importance of the Command Computer so he'll put it somewhere unreachable (or just build several).

[Beniboybling]

Except Beni....they are cannon fodder. Just like Stormtroopers, Jedi, Clone Troopers...unless named(or plot calls for it) despite what training they have had can easily be killed in battle because that is what they are there for. Now given that this is pretty much cannon fodder vs cannon fodder here, your right as the Sith Warriors would have an edge over the mass produced droids...but they are cannon fodder no matter how well trained.

...that's nice.