Smash balance idea

[L-RANDLE]

I have a sorc healer (sometimes I dps for fun), am able to kill scoundrel healers with help from one other person after we marked him. I don't understand why you think that ALL dps should be able to kill ALL healers.

 

A shadow was going to be my next [pvp exclusive] character and I studied a few of wakalords videos before starting out (then they introduced arena's so I went back to my jugg waiting to see what would happen) and for some reason he has absolutely no problem killing ... anyone, including op healers. Hmm maybe shadows are overpowered or maybe he just took some time to master the class?

 

And when did I actually cry about anything? I never said anything against smashers in this thread. You came in here and basically just said "haha I just beat smashers you all need to l2p" and then you said "smashing is fine healing is the problem" and I challenged you on that statement. You then made some weird 2:1 healing vs damage comparisons, and now you are complaining about sorc/sage (and apparently commando and shadow) dps not being able to kill a healer 1 v 1, and I'm the one who is crying?

 

I watched a few streams of every class you just described kill a healer (even op healers), I've killed scoundrel healers myself and I as an op healer have been killed. I don't understand what your QQ is.

 

 

I don't see a thread from me complaining that healing needs "balancing" . so where exactly am I QQ. How about we nerf healing and Smash? Next time you play compare top enemy DPS to Top HPS on your team and I guarantee my 2:1 ratio will pan out damn near 100% of the time. If you can't understand what that means in an all things being equal scenario, I can't help you.

 

"With help"? LOL exactly what I mean. Taking out a healers should not be an issue for any DPS class. People want to believe this game isn't balanced around 1v1, but at the end of the day, it has to be, since that is the lowest possible denominator. Its roshambo... All DPS should be able to kill a healer without help because DPS is scissors and HPS is paper, and the reality is DPS is a paper rock, on many ACs. So unless you either nerf healing, or buff other DPS classes, smash is fine.

 

Why else would they not adjust classes prior to arena and deleted Ranked? I'll put my Ms. Cleo hat on and tell you why. They can't balance healing properly in objective based 8v8 WZs because healing and respawns don't exist in just about all objective based PvP games. They are using smaller numbers and TDM as a lab rat to get a more tangible number on TTK with healers around.

 

Prepare for a nerf, says Ms. Cleo...

[PhatMcMuffins]

When HPS out paces DPS by 2:1. Its not limited to lolrollers either. The whole joke about heal to full is based on the fact that DPS Sages have NEVER had the the burst to make anyone pay. This is why there are only a few specs played in WZs, hence imbalance. And yes, OPs are OP'd against all but maybe two DPS specs, and those are in one AC.

 

Heales NEED to be 2:1 because healers are at least outnumbered 2:1. If we cannot absorb 2 people's damage with our heals, healers are useless. it'd make more sense, mathematically, to just have another dps.

 

Maras are played because all three of their trees work great with one being by far the strongest and easiest of the three. You can try to legitimize smash all you want, but not AOE should hit harder than nearly ever single target (except maybe your own vicious throw sometimes, among a few others when the stars align)

[sithBracer]

I don't see a thread from me complaining that healing needs "balancing" . so where exactly am I QQ.

here:

With healing the way it is right now, smash is fine. Other DPS classes have issues because they don't come close to countering healing. This is why there is imbalance...

 

How about we nerf healing and Smash? Next time you play compare top enemy DPS to Top HPS on your team and I guarantee my 2:1 ratio will pan out damn near 100% of the time. If you can't understand what that means in an all things being equal scenario, I can't help you.

 

First off, what is an HPS? DPS is damage per second, I never heard of a "heals per second" they are just called healers but maybe I'm old (25 is just a few years away).

 

If you don't understand the simple math of division then I can't help you. Lets me try one last time. timmy, tammy and tommy are dps, jilly is a healer. The teacher gives them 5 apples. 3 go to dps and 2 go to healers. Now because there are 3 dps they sadly only get only apple each,but because there is only 1 healer jilly gets 2. Now it may seem like the healers group got more apples because jilly has more than any one in the dps group,but in reality the dps group as a whole got more apples. If there were more people in the healers group and less in the dps then the healers group would have to share and they would get less heals.

 

"With help"? LOL exactly what I mean. Taking out a healers should not be an issue for any DPS class. People want to believe this game isn't balanced around 1v1, but at the end of the day, it has to be, since that is the lowest possible denominator. Its roshambo... All DPS should be able to kill a healer without help because DPS is scissors and HPS is paper, and the reality is DPS is a paper rock, on many ACs. So unless you either nerf healing, or buff other DPS classes, smash is fine.

 

I beat him with help but I am a healer myself, so I don't have the burst damage required to kill one on my own and I had to heal my partner while dpsing. One dps and one healer took him down very quickly. Is that really so bad? If you want to see how to take down a healer I suggest watching some of the streams people put up, they always seem to not have that much of an issue. If he's guarded by a tank then the problem is the tank not the healer.

 

Why else would they not adjust classes prior to arena and deleted Ranked? I'll put my Ms. Cleo hat on and tell you why. They can't balance healing properly in objective based 8v8 WZs because healing and respawns don't exist in just about all objective based PvP games. They are using smaller numbers and TDM as a lab rat to get a more tangible number on TTK with healers around.

 

Prepare for a nerf, says Ms. Cleo...

 

Wow, you honestly think bioware is doing all this to balance heals in PvP? Dream on. Biowares first and foremost concern is and always will be PvE, PvP is more like a side thing in this game. Even the 2.4 "PvP" patch is really a PvE patch. Bioware will do whatever it takes to make people play and subscribe more, to buy more from the cartel market, and to get money out of people any way it can. It is a business.

 

As for why they deleted ranked, if you think healing is the reason you are insane. Most likely it was a business decision, not enough people were playing it, it was too buggy and they didn't want to put any more money into it.

 

Maybe it was a marketing decision, get people playing ranked arena's and then bring back ranked 8v8 (which they said there is a high chance they will do).

 

Maybe the CEO lost a bet, who knows. But I can bet you any amount of money that healing was not the reason.

 

And as a response to the nerf comment: if they nerf it they nerf it. We will have to wait and see.

[Heal-To-Full]

Heales NEED to be 2:1 because healers are at least outnumbered 2:1. If we cannot absorb 2 people's damage with our heals, healers are useless. it'd make more sense, mathematically, to just have another dps.

No, it wouldn't.

It's enough for a healer to match a single DPS output to be worthwhile. 1:1. This way he'll work to negate one enemy DPS and thus be as useful as a DPS.

 

The PvP game is built around killing enemies and respawns. Which means heals aren't supposed to absorb the entire DPS being dealt, they're supposed to let a well-protected tank grab a little damage and not be burnt up in seconds.

 

Heals have been balanced around raids with bosses doing insane amounts of damage.

In PvP, this amount of healing turned what was originally a mix of objective and TDM play into a mix of a healfest and a stunfest, where you can't kill anyone and all you can do is stun them.

Edited August 30, 2013 by B-Dick

[Baalzamon]

No, it wouldn't.

It's enough for a healer to match a single DPS output to be worthwhile. 1:1. This way he'll work to negate one enemy DPS and thus be as useful as a DPS.

 

The PvP game is built around killing enemies and respawns. Which means heals aren't supposed to absorb the entire DPS being dealt, they're supposed to let a well-protected tank grab a little damage and not be burnt up in seconds.

 

Heals have been balanced around raids with bosses doing insane amounts of damage.

In PvP, this amount of healing turned what was originally a mix of objective and TDM play into a mix of a healfest and a stunfest, where you can't kill anyone and all you can do is stun them.

 

Like this guy said *********** A.

[NathanielStarr]

Nerf Smash? Sorry that ship has sailed...whatever that means. I take it to mean "sorry too many people play that spec, you should too" Edited August 31, 2013 by NathanielStarr

[Zunayson]

Smash with a cast time would probably be the most useless ability in the game.

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/9Zs8vcd/flame-thrower

 

No, it wouldn't.

It's enough for a healer to match a single DPS output to be worthwhile. 1:1. This way he'll work to negate one enemy DPS and thus be as useful as a DPS.

 

The PvP game is built around killing enemies and respawns. Which means heals aren't supposed to absorb the entire DPS being dealt, they're supposed to let a well-protected tank grab a little damage and not be burnt up in seconds.

 

Heals have been balanced around raids with bosses doing insane amounts of damage.

In PvP, this amount of healing turned what was originally a mix of objective and TDM play into a mix of a healfest and a stunfest, where you can't kill anyone and all you can do is stun them.

 

Raids are a numbers game. 7 Heals and 1 tank, in theory, could win a raid with the tank's pitiful 1000 DPS, it'd just take a few lifespans of this game. Enrage timers fix the problem, meaning heals only stall the team's inevitable death (or unless the team kills the boss).

 

PvP is a much more dynamic game with more movement, control, and overall more variables - players do not execute the same exact optimal rotation like a boss. So unless you vouch for your DPS to be smashing all 5 of the squishiest targets humanly possible and being 100% optimal and efficient, you can't really talk. So something like sudden death in arenas is like an enrage timer - heals become pretty much not useful, and it's all about the deeps.

 

Again, pve is purely a numbers game, so the enrage is based on a number (timer). PvP is more dynamic, so the "enrage" needs to be dynamic. And this is what happens when the other team uses all their CDs at once or something, then you obliterate them.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Zunayson

[NogueiraA]

If Bioware nerf Smash, theyll need to give a 4sec stun for marauders.

[Sathid]

No, it wouldn't.

It's enough for a healer to match a single DPS output to be worthwhile. 1:1. This way he'll work to negate one enemy DPS and thus be as useful as a DPS.

 

The PvP game is built around killing enemies and respawns. Which means heals aren't supposed to absorb the entire DPS being dealt, they're supposed to let a well-protected tank grab a little damage and not be burnt up in seconds.

 

Heals have been balanced around raids with bosses doing insane amounts of damage.

In PvP, this amount of healing turned what was originally a mix of objective and TDM play into a mix of a healfest and a stunfest, where you can't kill anyone and all you can do is stun them.

 

May i ask if you were playing this game the first six months?

 

Reason being is there was so many sorcs bubbling,slow's,lightning that matches were a joke,hell many matches had at least 6 sorcs doing the lightning.

[Helmholtzz]

up front comparison of PvP HPS and DPS might be misleading. While most of the DPS is single targeted HPS gets boosted by all the hots and the aoe heals. If you can make a healer solo heal a non healing class (no healing buff from skill tree) and then compare the HPS with DPS it will give you a better picture.

 

Now back to smash, people are angry about it because there is no counter. Other big aoe (orbital strike, mortar volley) has a marker on ground and does the damage over time. Imagine is snipers had an instant hit orbital strike (9-17K damage depending on crit) up their sleeve.... they would kill entire group alone. It would be fair if smash had a similar indication: circle that people can move out of or channeled damage like master strike again giving people option to move out. Does not change the PvE because operations bosses wont run from a puny smash. The idea of force leap putting a debuff on the target and doing higher damage only on the person with debuff might also work but then the system needs to track all the debuff to their original owners which might be complicated.

 

But to be honest do I see any change to smash? Yes, they might buff it a little bit because focus is pulling less single target dps compared to combat spec. But any change to reduce their aoe damage..... no way! too many people are playing smash. You already see that to enforce people only play the 'top' classes BW is getting rid of objective based play from ranked where you might play a role even if you are not one of the 4 prime classes. But kill match? no way! you NEED to level an alt for that if you dont have a gs, sentinel, guardian tank or a scoundrel healer. It makes balancing easier. Devs dont have to worry about all the other classes.

[sithBracer]

No, it wouldn't.

It's enough for a healer to match a single DPS output to be worthwhile. 1:1. This way he'll work to negate one enemy DPS and thus be as useful as a DPS.

 

The PvP game is built around killing enemies and respawns. Which means heals aren't supposed to absorb the entire DPS being dealt, they're supposed to let a well-protected tank grab a little damage and not be burnt up in seconds.

 

Heals have been balanced around raids with bosses doing insane amounts of damage.

In PvP, this amount of healing turned what was originally a mix of objective and TDM play into a mix of a healfest and a stunfest, where you can't kill anyone and all you can do is stun them.

 

 

Ok let me run the numbers by you again. Kolto probe 1300 per tick, surgical probe 3000ish can only be spammed when heath is under 30%, kolto infusion around 5000-6000 needs to be casted for 2 seconds can be interrupted.

 

This is your entire complaint? 4300 heals per GCD (it's actually less than that because ticks are slower than GCDs but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here)? When you have moves that take close to or more than 10k per hit? If I can only count the amount of time I was finished off with vicious throw taking more than 9k from me, or vicious slash taking more than 7k.

 

So what your complaint is cross heals now? What do you want for one dps to do more damage than 2 healers? A little greedy much? How about bioware just gives you a button that will instantly kill anyone you want? Will that make things "fair"? Yes heals can cross heal but (get ready because this might sound like rocket science to you), dps can focus target. Two or three dps can attack one guy. Lets see 9k damage times 3 is 27000 per GCD so in 2 GCDs you can do 54000 damage while 2 heals can do 17200 heals, OMG heals is so overpowered!!!! Thank god there isn't a third one or they would do 25800 heals per GCD it would be just unfair.

 

You think heals are overpowered? Do yourself a favor, roll a healer. Try facing a strong guild who actually know how to focus target with a pug group and then watch that little video you sent me again for a laugh. When you are targeted, chased and harassed by 3 people at once, when you are rooted/stunned 4 times in a row and you are cursing the guy who made resolve so crappy, when you are wasting your CDs and spamming your surgical probe while running from 2 marauders and 1 merc keeps shooting at your from behind and you're praying you get to a LoS or a green powerup before they get 1 crit or your kolto probe runs out because your team is too weak/stupid to take them off you. When you get force leapt every 3 seconds by a different guy and you're left wondering "doesn't that stupid thing have a CD", when a merc chains attacks and your hp drops to less than half in one GCD while you are still being chased by marauder. When you have to deal with those things, maybe, just maybe you might change your mind.

[Heal-To-Full]

This is your entire complaint? 4300 heals per GCD ... ? When you have moves that take close to or more than 10k per hit?

Do you understand the difference between sustained and burst damage?

 

DPS classes in a warzones pull about 2,000 damage per GCD. Their 10k moves are burst; they have to spend a while doing near no damage at all to ready that one 10k instant hit.

Why do they have burst? Because otherwise you could simply heal through everything.

 

If I can only count the amount of time I was finished off with vicious throw taking more than 9k from me, or vicious slash taking more than 7k.

Were you Guarded? Was the attacker Taunted?

If not, blame your tank for not doing his job. Tell him "no heals for you till you learn to taunt bro".

Unless of course you overextended yourself.

 

You think heals are overpowered? Do yourself a favor, roll a healer.

I have. It's pretty nice, as long as you're an Op healer. You can heal with a couple buttons and insta-roll to objectives, sneak in and out of action, flashbang crowds, stab cc-breakers in the butt with a hard stun, cap... all-around, carry your team as long as they at least care to mash their buttons.

 

The reason you are focus targeted and attacked by everyone when facing a premade is exactly that: healers affect the combat more than anyone else, and operatives the whole warzone, which makes them first priority targets.

[sithBracer]

Do you understand the difference between sustained and burst damage?

 

DPS classes in a warzones pull about 2,000 damage per GCD. Their 10k moves are burst; they have to spend a while doing near no damage at all to ready that one 10k instant hit.

Why do they have burst? Because otherwise you could simply heal through everything.

 

Ok, so what is your complaint again? Do you think heals should not even be able to heal through even the weakest hits much less burst? Who cares if it's burst, it still way more than any one healer can heal through especially if the dps are working together (like they should). It's not like you only have 1 burst attack that can be used once an hour. I already named a few attacks that take a crap load. Hell this whole thread is about 1 burst attack that does AoE damage, has a low CD and is easy to crit on. Also I call BS on the 2000. The only attacks that don't take much are attacks lik sundering assault or electronet whose main purpose is not damage or simple attacks-which shouldn't take a lot. Also you are not taking DoTs into consideration either. Unless I'm guarded and my opponent is taunted I always take a minimum of 5k damage (and yes I have full expertise, fully augmented conqueror on the left side and fully augmented partisan on the right side-saving my ranked comms for oct) when I face a premade (which is every day).

 

 

Were you Guarded? Was the attacker Taunted?

If not, blame your tank for not doing his job. Tell him "no heals for you till you learn to taunt bro".

Unless of course you overextended yourself.

 

OMG, is that all I need to do? Find a tank who can taunt and switch guard properly in a pug. Why tank (pun intended) you so much for telling me!!! Can you give me some more useless information? How about: "just find people in fully augmented conqueror gear and you will be fine". Tanks are rare enough in PvE, you honestly think it's easy to find a tank who knows how to properly taunt and switch guard in PvP on a regular basis?

 

Also I still don't understand what this has to do with your "heals are overpowered" QQ. It seems like you should be saying "heals are overpowered WHEN there is a tank to properly switch guard and taunt otherwise they are farm bait for dps". In this case it is not the heals that are overpowered but the tank who can guard anyone and taunt anyone making their attacks useless and letting the healers out-heal dps. Give me a case when healers can easily out-heal dps with no help from anyone and then you can say they are overpowered. Try out-healing a smasher doing AoE auto crit damage, try out-healing a merc chaining his missiles for 4.5k each (no burst) adding up to 9k+, try out-healing a sniper, or a free casting sorc dps and his lightning that follows you everywhere, see how well you do (and yes I know it's interrupt-able, too bad you can only interrupt it once every 10 seconds giving the 6 seconds to hit you with it unless you want to waste a cc/mezz on them).

 

I have. It's pretty nice, as long as you're an Op healer. You can heal with a couple buttons and insta-roll to objectives, sneak in and out of action, flashbang crowds, stab cc-breakers in the butt with a hard stun, cap... all-around, carry your team as long as they at least care to mash their buttons.

 

If you are playing against a bad team it doesn't matter what you have as a healer. I just scored over 1M 2 times in a row on my sorc, but the other night I could barely break 300k on my op because when I wasn't dying in 2-3 GCDs the person/people I was trying to heal were (but I guess this is a mistake, because in your world every team is like the team in the video you posted and I should be able to out-heal 3 smashers working together killing my team in 3 GCDs because healers are overpowered, or one of the millions of available tanks needs to guard and taunt or something).

 

Also please read the entire post not just one line. Roll a healer and face a decent guild with a pug. If they are so overpowered you should be able to heal through anything right? I do it every single time I PvP and I can assure you I am not overpowered nor can I heal through anything.

 

The reason you are focus targeted and attacked by everyone when facing a premade is exactly that: healers affect the combat more than anyone else, and operatives the whole warzone, which makes them first priority targets.

 

Thanks for teaching me something I learned on day 1. Of course healers affect the wz, they heal. It's their job. They are also usually the ones with the weakest defenses and weakest attacks making them the perfect targets. Who should dps focus on, the tank? He plays a very vital part too, weakening all attacks with taunt, guarding those being targeted and allowing healers to survive long enough to heal.

 

Once again if you think healers are so godly roll one and play against a decent guild with a pug. If they are as godly as you say you should have no problem keeping everyone up and staying alive yourself. It seems like you only play with good teams or you only play against bad teams. Try moving to a different server and joining the opposite faction of the one dominating the server. Quit all matches until you are matched up against the strongest guild on the server and only then will you know how "godly" your op is.

[Heal-To-Full]

I'm tired of arguing with you.

 

Do you believe that:

A) People should never die in warzones

B) People should only die in warzones if they have no healer

C) People should die in warzones unless they have pro healers and pro tanks

D) People should, with occasional exceptions, die in warzones?

 

As the game is currently set, it's somewhere between B and C.

[sithBracer]

I'm tired of arguing with you.

 

Do you believe that:

A) People should never die in warzones

B) People should only die in warzones if they have no healer

C) People should die in warzones unless they have pro healers and pro tanks

D) People should, with occasional exceptions, die in warzones?

 

As the game is currently set, it's somewhere between B and C.

 

As I said, we are not playing the same game. People die all the time in the wzs I play. Sometimes on my team, sometimes on the other team. Most likely you are playing on a scrub team vs another scrub team neither of whom know how to right click and place a target on a healer and then focus target on a healer; or you are playing on a good team vs another good team both of whom have pro tanks who know how to switch guard and taunt and pro healers who can survive. In neither of these cases is healing alone to blame for no one dying.

 

If you want option E-People on one team drop like flies because the other team is properly coordinating attacks on first the healers then the others-please pug and only enter WZ against a strong premade guild. I unfortunately go through this a few times every day and none of the OPness of either my sorc nor my op seem to be able to keep up with coordinated damage of a fully min/maxed conqueror premade smasher/sniper/jugg tank/op healer set. And I'm sure if their healer was replaced with a merc healer the results would be exactly the same.

[Heal-To-Full]

As I said, we are not playing the same game. People die all the time in the wzs I play.

Death in RWZ is about as common as in real life.

In premade v premade, even the other 4 pugs only die if they overextend.

 

coordinated damage of a fully min/maxed conqueror

Conqueror is crap. Sorry, not quite crap. It's not worse than other gear, it's just about 1% worse than a Conq/PvE mix and 1% better than random level 50 PvE pet crap.

 

If you want option E-People on one team drop like flies because the other team is properly coordinating attacks ...

I believe that, since the game does have respawn, players should average about 2 deaths per warzone, and the average number of deaths should not depend on average skill, assuming it's equal on both sides.

 

This is the big problem.

 

In Noobs vs Noobs matches players drop like flies, while even the worst scubs in RWZ never get to see the inside of the penalty box.

 

Defense scales massively with skill and coordination; damage and even damage concentration do not.

[Ren_simp]

Focus/smash is fine i can put out just as much aoe burst on my tele sage with hardly any setup

[Raazmir]

The problem's really more in the godmode cooldowns of the marauder. Nerf those and the spec becomes manageable.

[NathanielStarr]

Focus/smash is fine i can put out just as much aoe burst on my tele sage with hardly any setup

 

and you die 5 times as fast. You are a glass cannon they are an iron cannon. If you can put out just as much burst shouldn't your survivability be roughly the same? But it's not, by no means can you say that it is.

Edited September 1, 2013 by NathanielStarr

[Ren_simp]

and you die 5 times as fast. You are a glass cannon they are an iron cannon. If you can put out just as much burst shouldn't your survivability be roughly the same? But it's not, by no means can you say that it is.

 

If my guardian doesn't have a heal bot I die just as fast, leaping to 4-5 enemy's without support is suicide

Where as my sage aoes from distance yes it's slightly more squishy when getting focused but its not as bad as your making it out to be

[NathanielStarr]

If my guardian doesn't have a heal bot I die just as fast, leaping to 4-5 enemy's without support is suicide

Where as my sage aoes from distance yes it's slightly more squishy when getting focused but its not as bad as your making it out to be

 

Sure it is. Look at your class and the concerns that were in their questions for the most part. You remember when they said you could heal to full. Besides when those smashers survive by killing your team very quickly you find yourself facing 4 to 5 of them and your range quickly becomes negated with a single button leap.

 

Listen to yourself you are saying your sage is as tough as your guardian? Come on I know you don't want the nerf but did you fall out of your chair when you typed that? It is a ridiculous claim.

Edited September 1, 2013 by NathanielStarr

[Ren_simp]

Sure it is. Look at your class and the concerns that were in their questions for the most part. You remember when they said you could heal to full. Besides when those smashers survive by killing your team very quickly you find yourself facing 4 to 5 of them and your range quickly becomes negated with a single button leap.

 

Listen to yourself you are saying your sage is as tough as your guardian? Come on I know you don't want the nerf but did you fall out of your chair when you typed that? It is a ridiculous claim.

 

No I'm not saying its as tough I'm saying it puts out as much burst and survivabilty is range/melee all classes will die with 4-5 dps on them focus/smash drop just as fast as any class in that situation.

As for not wanting a nerf I play all specs on my guardian vigilance being my favourite but in pvp

Focus trumps vigilance for burst and gap closers, its a no brainier which spec to play.

if or when they nerf focus I will carry on as usual playing whatever spec I feel like at the time.

[NathanielStarr]

No I'm not saying its as tough I'm saying it puts out as much burst and survivabilty is range/melee all classes will die with 4-5 dps on them focus/smash drop just as fast as any class in that situation.

As for not wanting a nerf I play all specs on my guardian vigilance being my favourite but in pvp

Focus trumps vigilance for burst and gap closers, its a no brainier which spec to play.

if or when they nerf focus I will carry on as usual playing whatever spec I feel like at the time.

 

Range is overrated as a positive. 30m is not far at all. Leap covers that and if you try to kite they just stun.

[Ren_simp]

Range is overrated as a positive. 30m is not far at all. Leap covers that and if you try to kite they just stun.

 

Yeah my sage has no knock back stuns or snares/slows totally helpless against that leap

[apocco]

How about making Singularity buff last as long as the Gore/Precision Slash buff i.e. 4.5secs?