Achyllis Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 This post is not about killing an op it's about how the roll affects PvP. The only skill remotely close is a jugg/guard using force leap, push, leap, intercept. The point being that in PvE the roll is a minimal skill used in quick succession. I as a scoundrel I have never used my roll in the manner it is used in PvP. The next least used 51 skill in PvE vs PvP is phase walk. The biggest difference here is a shadow that phase walks will lose any carried objective in the process. Not so with the roll! A scoundrel can carry orbs or the HB using consecutive rolls. Fair enough. So your beef is that your class now has some utility. No push, no pull, no knock back, but Sco/Ops now has a gap closer and something to help escape if you are cleansed first. After getting bounced around Huttball for 2 years by the pushes and pulls of every other class I say good for us having some utility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tragamite Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 Fair enough. So your beef is that your class now has some utility. No push, no pull, no knock back, but Sco/Ops now has a gap closer and something to help escape if you are cleansed first. After getting bounced around Huttball for 2 years by the pushes and pulls of every other class I say good for us having some utility. I'm not saying the roll is not useful it is for PvE as well as PvP but what I see is an exploitation of a skill. A scoundrel can roll 5 times exhausting all his energy doing so but is 5 seconds has moved 150m. This in its self is not an issue but what I see is you would not use this skill in this manner outside PvP. The take that ops are a freak class is BWs response to it being a less desirable class may be true. Honestly I only have 2 issues with the roll, 1 is the fact that the agent and smuggler got the "same" ability for both advance classes while all others got entirely different skills. 2 is how it is abused in PvP in a way that would be devastating in PvE. 2 being the bigger issue! If I rolled into combat against a group of mobs the way I can in PvP I'd have no energy left to fight. This is not the case in PvP where I can manipulate the game by using this ability to give my team an advantage and time to counter enemy moves and tactics. While this sounds like a positive, it is only to the roller. The op scoundrel roll needs to be slowed down, both to keep matches more competitive and keep ops scoundrel in line with how they would use this skill outside the WZ. Play in a sub 30 WZ then at 51+ and see if you notice how matches change due to this ability against all other 51 abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I'm not saying the roll is not useful it is for PvE as well as PvP but what I see is an exploitation of a skill. A scoundrel can roll 5 times exhausting all his energy doing so but is 5 seconds has moved 150m. This in its self is not an issue but what I see is you would not use this skill in this manner outside PvP. If you want to be taken seriously, don't make up numbers. 5 x 12 = 150? Wow and all this time I thought it was 60. An op can roll 65 m in 5 seconds if they time it absolutely perfectly with their runs. If they do this stupid thing they will run out of energy so doing it is extremely stupid because you can't do anything afterwards. If the issue is reaching objectives early, as someone stated it is an issue that bioware can easily fix by not allowing anyone to cap at the start of the match (would make ranked more fun even). Honestly I only have 2 issues with the roll, 1 is the fact that the agent and smuggler got the "same" ability for both advance classes while all others got entirely different skills. It is not the same. The sniper's roll is much better. I would love trading with them. 2 is how it is abused in PvP in a way that would be devastating in PvE. 2 being the bigger issue! If I rolled into combat against a group of mobs the way I can in PvP I'd have no energy left to fight. This is not the case in PvP where I can manipulate the game by using this ability to give my team an advantage and time to counter enemy moves and tactics. That is something bioware can easily fix by not allowing people to cap too early, but it seems like they don't want to. They actually do it in hypergates (I couldn't cap when I rushed to the other team's pylon, and it became cappable at a certain time giving them enough time to interrupt me). Play in a sub 30 WZ then at 51+ and see if you notice how matches change due to this ability against all other 51 abilities. 51s still have a lot of people who do not have their full skillset and/or are not very experienced in PvP and getting objectives. With all that said, I wouldn't mind a 3 second cooldown if they lowered the energy requirements on it, or just give us the sniper roll and one of their knockbacks Would trade my roll for that any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexDecimalUK Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 and the fact that Ops cant successfully vanish when dotted (TY for the pointless cure that cures nothing) while assassins get a 3 second invincibility that allows them to vanish CC-free or cast their phase walk no problems. The only thing wrong with ROLL is that its VISIBLE! IMO it should stealth for 1 second duration of the global cool down without ending combat or untargetting us since operatives don't half the damage of assassins and no where near the utility as they are now. it might look like a troll-roll but i don't think i have ever ditched a hostile player with it because after 4 roles im out of energy until long after that player catches up to me and thats with a full bar which after doing anything i do not have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenjer Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 roll is not OP. It can be powerful, and it can be countered. /thread. Can we please move on from this already? Its been 5 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tragamite Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 roll is not OP. It can be powerful, and it can be countered. /thread. Can we please move on from this already? Its been 5 months. No roll is not OP it is abused in its use in PvP thus making it an exploit of the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snaplemouton Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 No roll is not OP it is abused in its use in PvP thus making it an exploit of the system. Where is the exploit? If you use 2 rolls in a row you hit the energy regen reduced rate which lower your healing output and dps output by a **** ton. When slowed, it's only 6 meters. Which is extremely crappy and non-energy efficient as well as taking up a global cooldown. Force leap can be dodged. Roll give 30% defense increase. Which means there is a 30% increased chance that force leap root doesn't affect the scoundrel/operative during a roll. A rooted scoundrel/operative cannot roll. The only issue I see here is a L2P issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFXedits Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Either by design or due to lag issues yes it does. Force leap or rocket charge has a stun on impact yet I can be 2 rolls away from them. The roll is the only level 51 ability that is shared by the advanced classes. Ops just have a greater version for Pvp purposes. Ops and Scoundrels should have something different than sniper slingers anyway. it doesnt avoid stuns it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenjer Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 No roll is not OP it is abused in its use in PvP thus making it an exploit of the system. An exploit is, by definition, using in-game mechanics or a bug in an unexpected way to achieve an unintended result. The only way your statement has any validity is if the development team did not intend for roll to be used to ball carry or speed time to objectives in PVP. I'm not a member of the development team, and I can't speak to their intentions, but i can't imagine any scenario where they were unaware of this functionality. On another note, i think that, for huttball specifically, the various leap abilities are more powerful than roll, especially for tank specced guard/jugg who can not only do the whole leap / push / leap thing, but can follow up with a friend leap and have extremely strong defensive cooldowns. However, like roll, these are counter-able, and while being powerful are not game-breaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Either by design or due to lag issues yes it does. Force leap or rocket charge has a stun on impact yet I can be 2 rolls away from them. no. you just cannot target them while they're in roll. a snare before they roll still snares. and yes, I think that's BS. but that's the situation. scrappers can roll all day, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tragamite Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 An exploit is, by definition, using in-game mechanics or a bug in an unexpected way to achieve an unintended result. The only way your statement has any validity is if the development team did not intend for roll to be used to ball carry or speed time to objectives in PVP. I'm not a member of the development team, and I can't speak to their intentions, but i can't imagine any scenario where they were unaware of this functionality. On another note, i think that, for huttball specifically, the various leap abilities are more powerful than roll, especially for tank specced guard/jugg who can not only do the whole leap / push / leap thing, but can follow up with a friend leap and have extremely strong defensive cooldowns. However, like roll, these are counter-able, and while being powerful are not game-breaking. Exploit also by definition is using something outside its received use to gain an advantage. Honestly I don't know if the devs looked at this and said it should be ok as is. Personally I think they internally tested all these abilities in PvE content and deemed the sound never once looking at the PvP effect they would have since there appears to be a lack of PvP oriented devs. Unlike roll a warrior or knight must have targetables to use the skills you mention. No friend no friendly leap. No enemy no enemy leap push leap those abilities are as much on the recipient as much as the user. Rolling as I see its intent was to dart in deal damage to melee and then escape away. It is a use unintended to gain advantage of what is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyseus Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 I have to admit. I just got my OP to 51, and that roll is amazing! A little OP if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfourcustom Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 It's not an exploit its a game mechanic... granted a very obnoxious game mechanic but not what so ever an exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilifus Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 /dead horse/ I laughed so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 I have to admit. I just got my OP to 51, and that roll is amazing! A little OP if you ask me. lol, wait until you are playing against level 55 premades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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