2.4 Changes to class are posted in the PTS forum

[KarethRiker]

I'm curious what everyone thinks about them

[HuNtOziO]

High freaking 5 thats what! Finally

[Gullesvupper]

I think they don't want Assault to be viable, but are at least doing something to Tactics. Will have to test tactics out on the PTS first, before giving a conclusion of what I think of them. Pyro/assault however, looks **** even on paper. I'm certain that won't be near enough, for the spec that already the worst.

[KarethRiker]

I think it depends on how much the damage is boosted on AP. My guess is you will be incentivized to go all the way up the tree.

 

I bet the damage is comparable for both.

 

I like the changes to Tactics for sure, curious to see overall burst plus DPS output in practice.

[JMagee]

As an (8/10/28) Assault player, I'm kind of confused by the changes. They changed assault plastique to be a bit burstier, but with a weaker DoT, changed the ammo on IR, and nerfed it a bit and reworked ionized ignition in such a way that based on the description sounds like it would result in next to no change in damage. But the patch note is kind of confusing to me.

 

Ionized Ignition has been redesigned: Stockstrike has a 33/66/100% chance and if Plasma Cell is active, Ion Pulse has a 15/30/45% chance to trigger it

 

My guess is it should be "Stockstrike has a 33/66/100% chance and Ion Pulse a 15/30/45% chance to trigger your Plasma Cell, if active."

 

At first glance it seems like almost no change to a slight nerf in damage. Which seems odd, given the general consensus that non-hybrids are a bit lagging in the DPS race. But until these vague "reduced damage" statements are met with numbers, I'll reserve complete judgement.

Edited August 16, 2013 by JMagee

[Gullesvupper]

As an (8/10/28) Assault player, I'm kind of confused by the changes. They changed assault plastique to be a bit burstier, but with a weaker DoT, changed the ammo on IR, and nerfed it a bit and reworked ionized ignition in such a way that based on the description sounds like it would result in next to no change in damage. But the patch note is kind of confusing to me.

 

Ionized Ignition has been redesigned: Stockstrike has a 33/66/100% chance and if Plasma Cell is active, Ion Pulse has a 15/30/45% chance to trigger it

 

My guess is it should be "Stockstrike has a 33/66/100% chance and Ion Pulse a 15/30/45% chance to trigger your Plasma Cell, if active."

 

At first glance it seems like almost no change to a slight nerf in damage. Which seems odd, given the general consensus that non-hybrids are a bit lagging in the DPS race. But until these vague "reduced damage" statements are met with numbers, I'll reserve complete judgement.

 

I agree, I'm simply do not in any way buy the need to make a compromize in damage numbers, when lowering the ammo cost. We are a low dps class, we don't need QoL changes as much as having tweaks the results in actual damage increases across the board. Iognized Ignition change looks.... Well.. Almost as dumb as when they gave us the explosive surge triggering Plasma Cell. Thankfully the PTS is not over, but this isn't it for Assault. In fact I'm a bit worried.

 

Tactics will be interesting to test though.

[KarethRiker]

Agree, I'm puzzled by the QOL too, but I think the changes to Assault are for PVP mostly. Higher burst lower damage over time.

[Gullesvupper]

Yes, but it actually seem nerfed for PvE. And it was already the worst spec for PvE... lol! For a PvP perspective I don't think the burst will be enough to make up for our low survivablity in Assault, but I'm willing to give that portion a try. The Assault changes just.... doesn't look like they were made by anyone who ever played the class tbh. Edited August 16, 2013 by Gullesvupper

[Keypek]

Yeah just at first glance it seems better burst for pvp but less damage over time for assault? Seems kinda dumb. And harder to get plasma cell on people outside of 4m however only slightly.

 

Tactics I will definitely be giving a try this weekend on pts though. I hate vague descriptions of "slightly lowered the damage". Depending on how much they lowered PC damage that crit bonus is a huge buff unless they really nerfed regular damage. Fire pulse hitting harder yes please. Hopefully it's finally a useful top tier talent. And more streamlined ammo regen with 2 cells every 1.5 seconds instead of 8 every 6. Lowering damage on gut kinda sucks though.

 

top tier tactics looks like it might be fun for both pve and pvp again depending on damage values now... assault looks like it might be better for pvp but worse or same for pve?

[JMagee]

Yea, the AP change could be good, but I think they'd have to buff if considerably to make up for all the damage buffs you'd lose to find the points to make it up the rest of the way. And having to take some combination of Degauss, Adrenaline Fueled, Rapid Recharge to get to the top...which range from terrible to bad talents.

 

Losing Overcharged Cell Capacitor, Blaster Augs and Frontline Offense, while only gaining a slight damage buff to SS on the way up to AP seems to be a DPS loss, unless they make AP very OP, which I don't see happening

[Ottoattack]

Yea, the AP change could be good, but I think they'd have to buff if considerably to make up for all the damage buffs you'd lose to find the points to make it up the rest of the way. And having to take some combination of Degauss, Adrenaline Fueled, Rapid Recharge to get to the top...which range from terrible to bad talents.

 

Losing Overcharged Cell Capacitor, Blaster Augs and Frontline Offense, while only gaining a slight damage buff to SS on the way up to AP seems to be a DPS loss, unless they make AP very OP, which I don't see happening

 

Tactics, I can't really tell. They seem to take it from the right and put it in the left. Adding a bit of burst for tactics was needed, but again I don't see this happened.

 

Assault, hahaaaaaaaaa. 2 nerfs and 1 change that slightly improves burst. I retired my PT a while back, I think now is time to bury her.

[JMagee]

Tactics, I can't really tell. They seem to take it from the right and put it in the left. Adding a bit of burst for tactics was needed, but again I don't see this happened.

 

Assault, hahaaaaaaaaa. 2 nerfs and 1 change that slightly improves burst. I retired my PT a while back, I think now is time to bury her.

 

While your statement still works, I just want to clear up for my own well being, in my case, AP is assault plastique, not advanced prototype/tactics

[KamikazeKommando]

First, I find it odd that the only class getting really touched at all in 2.4 is the Trooper, and mainly the Vanguard AC. Obviously, Vanguard DPS was in last place holding the 8th spot for output potential on dummy parses compared to the other 7 ACs so it certainly warranted a look. However, I think it's also important to point out that this underlying problem with the AC is further exacerbated in PvP making the AC quite laughable in that context.

 

From my perspective after reading these notes, they hurt assault more than helped it. Sure, less DOT and more upfront is a nice burst boost for AP. Yet reducing IR damage while making it cheaper makes it less costly to reapply sure, but you're just doing fluff damage applying it wholesale, and if you're focusing a target the encounter will typically end before the 18s anyway, or it's getting cleansed at which point it's not cost effective to reapply if you're getting just a couple ticks for the ammo+gcd cost. Lastly this change to Ionized Ignition is a slap in the face, it effectively halves our chance to slow a target and hurts output a descent chunk by not allowing the 100% reapplication for our filler ability. Looking at parses the actual damage done by it from Ion Pulse is not insignificant considering how the ticks and reapplication was working (maybe that's what they're trying to address here, but we don't need the nerf).

 

Anyway, it may be hard to figure without PTS time and parsing it out, but in my humble opinion I really don't think this was the "help" assault needed and the nerfs weren't justified. It seems this is another x.4 patch where assault tree got some strange TLC by the developers.

Edited August 16, 2013 by KamikazeKommando

[Chickensevil]

Something I stated on the PT forums that I wanted to mention here is that the heat changes to pyro/assault could be a buff in damage. We need tests to show for sure, but if the heat has been reduced enough that you can get away with less rapid shots that is GOING to be a DPS boost.

[Kitru]

Obviously, Vanguard DPS was in last place holding the 8th spot for output potential on dummy parses compared to the other 7 ACs so it certainly warranted a look.

 

While I'm not saying that VG DPS didn't need to be looked at (they did), but VGs were only second to last. Shadows were *well* behind absolutely every other AC; VGs were in 7th place; *Shadows* were in 8th, by a pretty substantial margin, to boot.

[Ottoattack]

Something I stated on the PT forums that I wanted to mention here is that the heat changes to pyro/assault could be a buff in damage. We need tests to show for sure, but if the heat has been reduced enough that you can get away with less rapid shots that is GOING to be a DPS boost.

 

I read it. I might bite for PvE. For PvP how? Considering that over heating was not an issue for pyro/assault in PvP?

[JMagee]

Don't get me wrong, I think dropping the cost of IR by ~36% will definitely help with ammo regen and cut down the Hammer Shot filler spam. I just don't think it will be that noticeable.

 

Currently, the only time I find myself ammo starved are during burn phases, where I'm just spamming IP/SS/HIB as fast as I can and trying to maybe keep IR up. A decrease in ammo cost to a slow sustained DoT will be useful, but it won't help me personally in most situations where I'm ammo starved. And this isn't really a complaint, but a bit of collateral damage...but dropping the cost of IR, by sheer definition alone, decreases the usefulness (by the same ~36%) of reserve powercell, because your getting less "free ammo".

 

Several current Ops bosses even have phases where you can't do much besides stand around and regen ammo (Golden Fury, Titan 6 are big ones, while Operator IX,TFB, and Kephess all have measurable phases where there is nothing available to be killed).

 

As far as damage difference, I think a Crit IP with a crit tick of PC is probably ~3.5k more damage than a HS with no PC proc, whereas a IP with no crit PC and a HS with a crit PC are probably ~750-1000 damage apart. So the potential does exist for it to do a measurable increase to DPS, but also could translate to not much at all if the RNG is not kind to you.

[KamikazeKommando]

While I'm not saying that VG DPS didn't need to be looked at (they did), but VGs were only second to last. Shadows were *well* behind absolutely every other AC; VGs were in 7th place; *Shadows* were in 8th, by a pretty substantial margin, to boot.

 

I guess it depends on how you figure it, my metrics showed Shadows as 7th for output potential where Vangaurds were 8th, either way both classes are at the end of the pack and around ~15% less than the leaders. Now, with that being said, let's move over to the PVP side of things, I would be suprised to find many back up the claim that Shadows are worse off than Vanguards, there it's extremely sad for the Vanguards so they get the real short end of the stick both ways. This is where I don't understand the changes to assault, they're not going to help much if at all, they may even end up hurting more.

Edited August 16, 2013 by KamikazeKommando

[Gullesvupper]

I just wrote this on the PT forums, but want to say it here as well.

 

Isn't it almost like someone ****ed up majorly when redoing the talents, and made the change with 100% SS proc, 45% IP proc Ionized Ignition instead of doing it for Ionic Accelerator? That would at least make some kind of sense, even though that IA talents proc chance is the least of our worries....

[KamikazeKommando]

I just wrote this on the PT forums, but want to say it here as well.

 

Isn't it almost like someone ****ed up majorly when redoing the talents, and made the change with 100% SS proc, 45% IP proc Ionized Ignition instead of doing it for Ionic Accelerator? That would at least make some kind of sense, even though that IA talents proc chance is the least of our worries....

 

I know! When I first skimmed the notes, I read it as a buff to IA and I thought: "Great that's a real good buff, 100% chance to proc HiB with SS, finally BioWare!" - but then I realized it applied to our II talent, then my mood quickly changed to: "***?? SRSLY?? /wrist"

[Chickensevil]

I read it. I might bite for PvE. For PvP how? Considering that over heating was not an issue for pyro/assault in PvP?

 

I thought it was understood that the change to AP/TD was intended for PVP. Now, the heat change specifically to IM might help a tad for PVP since it MIGHT make it worth it to throw out there now since it costs less... and again we don't know how much they dropped the damage by since they didn't post any *%(@)@%& numbers!

 

I am not at all saying that Pyro/Assault is in a better place, I am just saying, it is not fair to pass judgement on the changes when you are only getting half of a picture since they didn't state how much the numbers were changed and you haven't actually tested it out yet. If and when I get the PTS done patching and in the game, I will be happy to run the numbers and see what the difference is, but until then people suggesting that they nerfed Pyro/Assault without even TRYING it are going too far.

[OlosBC]

I guess it depends on how you figure it, my metrics showed Shadows as 7th for output potential where Vangaurds were 8th, either way both classes are at the end of the pack and around ~15% less than the leaders. Now, with that being said, let's move over to the PVP side of things, I would be suprised to find many back up the claim that Shadows are worse off than Vanguards, there it's extremely sad for the Vanguards so they get the real short end of the stick both ways. This is where I don't understand the changes to assault, they're not going to help much if at all, they may even end up hurting more.

 

Is that just counting full tree specs, or did you look at hybrid as well?

[Aelaias]

First they cut plasma cell damage by half and now they cut its proc chance by half. Looks like another nerf to me. If that's how it works out that will be the straw to end this camel.

[Chickensevil]

I know! When I first skimmed the notes, I read it as a buff to IA and I thought: "Great that's a real good buff, 100% chance to proc HiB with SS, finally BioWare!" - but then I realized it applied to our II talent, then my mood quickly changed to: "***?? SRSLY?? /wrist"

 

Yeah, this is the only change that even without going into the game, I can agree makes no sense... at all... I REALLY hope this is a typo or something... cause... wow... makes NO sense...

 

Also, take it one farther from an RP standpoint (no I don't RP, I just like things to REMOTELY MAKE SENSE) how does hitting someone with the butt of a rifle or giving them an uppercut put a "DoT" on them... like... you aren't even shooting your weapon... Flame burst / Ion pulse it makes sense... you are at least hitting them something that could reasonably "combust" and set them on fire or whatever it is that is happening on the vanguard side... Just doesn't make sense... at all...

[Chickensevil]

Is that just counting full tree specs, or did you look at hybrid as well?

 

I don't think it is fair to judge the hybrids since they are not intended, therefore have no barring on the "within 5%" goal of the combat team. Even at that hybrid for us (in PVE) just makes it so we aren't dead weight on the team... so maybe pushes us up to middle of the road... why should we have to spec something that is CLEARLY not intended just to not get kicked off/replaced on an ops team?