PVP Jugg/Guardian Tank : is Defense useless ?

[iesnbold]

Ok, so first, yes I've read A LOT of content about stat distribution, for both PVP and even PVE, made by KBN and dipstik, taking into account damage type distribution and such. Some people talked about going full Absorb, but it seems like the latest calculations for PVP pointed towards near full Defense rating.

 

Now I understand those distribution did not come from nowhere, I thank the people that took time to run those calcs, but when I'm looking at the Damage Taken Overview of TorParse for WZ or RWZ combat logs, it seems that Parry/Deflect effective % is VERY low.

 

Right now, since I was not sure which way to go I'm sitting with 12% Defense chance and 35.5% Shield chance. Now with Retaliation, Defense chance should go to 17%, and even more with Def proc relic. But in reality, my Parry/Deflect stats in a WZ are about 3% ! Sometimes Deflect % goes a bit higher (due to Reflect I assume).

 

I guess it's due to the fact that you can' parry/deflect through guard, and that is most of the incoming damage in PVP. But then, my effective Shield % in a WZ seems to be around 20%, so I guess you can actually shield guarded damage, or otherwise it would be much lower.

 

Does this means staking Defense is a wrong approach since you won't really parry/deflect much more than you would with base stats? And maybe we can keep some Defense-modded pieces for Huttball where you will actually take more direct damage than guarded damage?

 

 

About something else, I read somewhere that Matrix Cube was BiS for Jugg/Guardian, how is this possible ? I understand you don't lose any Expertise, but are they that much Bolstered to compensate the Endurance and stat loss ?

 

Is anyone going for the old Campaign gear for the 2P bonus instead of 2P PVP ? (Blade Turning +1s duration, Invincible +2s duration vs +1s Choke/Statis duration)?

Edited August 14, 2013 by iesnbold

[knell]

Same question, how good is defense in pvp?

[sanctified]

I remember there being a lot of controversy because defense didn't mitigate tech and force damage, but I think that's been corrected.

[Kadjunga]

defense is more or less useless in pvp.

 

The only damage that is pure melee / ranged is a few abilities from marauders, juggernaughts or assassins. Everything else is force / tech and you really cant defend against that.

 

If you have a bit of defense in the gear, it's fine. But you want more or less a full absorb / shield build for pvp.

 

 

and yes, matrix cubes are good for beginning until you get obroan relics.

 

they provide you the stat bonus AND they get bolstered for more health and full expertise, compared to the conqueror relics.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Kadjunga

[Guiken]

I guess it's due to the fact that you can' parry/deflect through guard, and that is most of the incoming damage in PVP. But then, my effective Shield % in a WZ seems to be around 20%, so I guess you can actually shield guarded damage, or otherwise it would be much lower.

 

You actually can parry through guard. Have a carnage marauder goto town on your guarded target with massacres/ravages, pop saberward/deflection/etc and watch the parries fly.

 

So Defense is -useful- but according to damage profiles collected we're only seeing about 9% of the overall damage being from melee/ranged attacks that could actually be defended against. So essentially even if you pump 1000 defense points into your gear, forgoing all other stats that you could have used instead, you can expect to increase your survivability by about 2.5% yay tanking stats!

Edited March 26, 2014 by Guiken

[tanerb]

Building on PVP jug tanking. should I go absorb /shield augments or fortitude augments? I know endurance augments are No-go in PVe, how about PVP? It is very difficult to find relevant information on PVP tanking

[Zoom_VI]

Building on PVP jug tanking. should I go absorb /shield augments or fortitude augments? I know endurance augments are No-go in PVe, how about PVP? It is very difficult to find relevant information on PVP tanking

 

I'm pretty dang sure that every single tank class takes endurance augs for PvP

[celsomergulhao]

In the first place, let's make it clear once and for all that damage through guard CAN be parried/deflected as long as they are melee/ranged weapon (white) damage. Force/Tech (yellow damage) can not. This question has been up for way too long and still confuses many players.

Also, critical hits cannot be shielded, regardless being white or yellow damage, whereas a white hit still have a chance of being parried/deflected before it becomes a crit.

Note that not only melee classes have weapon damage, like someone stated. Ranged classes, with the exception of sages/sorcs, also have many important skills doing weapon damage that can be deflected:

 

Commando / Mercenary

-Full Auto/Unload

-High Impact Bolt/Rail Shot

-Charged Bolt/Power Shot

-Hail of Bolts/Sweeping Blasters

 

Gunslinger / Sniper

-Speed Shot/Series of Shots

-Aimed Shot/Ambush

-Quick Draw/Takedown

-Sweeping Gunfire/Suppressive Fire

-Trickshot/Followthrough

 

Basically, depends on which class and spec you're going against, but since you don't choose your opponents and having 2 sets of pvp gear to switch accordingly can take a lot of time, I'd say try to balance your stats. At least 15% of defense chance (20% with riposte/retaliation buff), 37~40% shield chance and 25~30% absorption are quite decent stats for a guardian/jugg tank. Most of pvp tanks go with Fortitude (Endurance) augments, but that's not a must, it's just one option. I went with all defense/shield augments and I don't regret a bit.

[Zoom_VI]

Nope defense is still worthless, there is too much bias towards F/T for defense to be good.