How do people decide the cost to craft an item?

[Deathstalker_]

Title. I would understand if there were some sort of standard cost, but there doesn't seem to be. Prices on the GTN are always in flux, the number of Crew Missions it can take to get the items you need can vary wildly thanks to the RNG, and how do you charge for time spent gathering materials yourself? It seems to me that there is no way to set a definitive cost for any given crafted item, but people here seem to know exactly how much to charge for everything. How?

[stuartjs]

My guess is that when an item is first available people will set whatever crazy price they believe people will actually pay and as more people are able to craft said item , they undercut by a bit and this continues until the item reaches a stable semi consistent price.

[psandak]

Title. I would understand if there were some sort of standard cost, but there doesn't seem to be. Prices on the GTN are always in flux, the number of Crew Missions it can take to get the items you need can vary wildly thanks to the RNG, and how do you charge for time spent gathering materials yourself? It seems to me that there is no way to set a definitive cost for any given crafted item, but people here seem to know exactly how much to charge for everything. How?

 

Simply put, trial and error, and paying attention to the markets one gets into.

 

There are three interconnected factors:

 

#1 - charge what buyers are willing to pay. all MMOs are buyers' markets. It is the buyers that determine how much they are willing to spend on whatever they are looking for. A seller can post an item at whatever value he/she wants, but if no one buys then it is obviously not worth what the seller is hoping. But like everything else in existence there is a bell curve: some players will pay any price at any time to get what they want, some are very frugal and scour the lists of items for great deals, the rest fall somewhere in between.

 

#2 - materials' value is based on #1...what most players are willing to pay. One can then calculate a "break even" point for crafted goods. This also helps determine whether or not it is worth crafting a particular item - if the value of the materials is higher than that of the finished product then one is better off selling the materials rather than taking the extra time to craft (NOTE: some sellers take "extras" (when crafting item modifications, when one crits they get an extra unit) into account when determining that break even value and are therefore willing to sell at what would be considered a slight loss because the extras make up the difference).

 

#3 - over time a "happy medium" is reached. Those who work the GTM regularly learn that all markets fluctuate, but they do so within a relatively fixed range. From that information, most sellers set a minimum value that they (as an individual) are willing to post any given good at. If the value of a specific item falls below that threshold, then the question becomes, "Do I buy and re-post to 'reset' the value or do I simply wait out the slump?" Again, it is up to the individual.

 

Finally, most sellers learn to accept that "happy medium." Some players wish specific items were worth more than they are, but again if the buyers are not willing to pay higher prices...all the wishing in the world won't help. And believe me some have tried - buying up every one of a specific item trying to post them at higher value and not selling them.

[Deathstalker_]

So in short, it simply requires that one understand the market. Unfortunately, I don't have the insight to look at the GTN and be able to say, 'This is the average value for this item', so it looks like I'll never be able to figure out what my items (crafted or otherwise) are worth. Damn. Still, thanks for the input. I was hoping there was some sort of formula or something for figuring this out, but since there isn't, I'll just have to earn money the hard, slow way.

[psandak]

So in short, it simply requires that one understand the market. Unfortunately, I don't have the insight to look at the GTN and be able to say, 'This is the average value for this item', so it looks like I'll never be able to figure out what my items (crafted or otherwise) are worth. Damn. Still, thanks for the input. I was hoping there was some sort of formula or something for figuring this out, but since there isn't, I'll just have to earn money the hard, slow way.

 

What is so hard about:

 

#1 looking up an item on the GTM, seeing what the lowest price is

#2 looking up the prices of the materials to craft it and adding those values up

#3 comparing the cost of materials to the value of the item crafted

 

For example, I sell mostly blue quality item modifications. They sell for 10k-20k each. I know, from a little research and math, the materials cost less than that. I profit.

[Deathstalker_]

But how do I know that the lowest price is the average price, and not someone trying to undercut the average price?

[psandak]

But how do I know that the lowest price is the average price, and not someone trying to undercut the average price?

 

Lowest price is definitely not the average. To understand the average look at all the listings for that item. But that is not as important as understanding the lowest and then setting your own personal minimum posting price: if the lowest price falls below your minimum you don't post that item for sale. The value WILL rebound eventually, it is a matter of patience.

[Deathstalker_]

So the short version is that there's no quick and easy, hard and fast rule for this stuff; you just have to wing it and hope for the best.

[psandak]

So the short version is that there's no quick and easy, hard and fast rule for this stuff; you just have to wing it and hope for the best.

 

If you want a quick solution yeah. The research and legwork has basically been done for you already, just follow the pack by undercutting the lowest, but knowing when to step back for a while when the value dips too low (for your taste).

 

The only reason to know the "upper limit" is for those rare instances when there is none of a particular item on the GTM at the moment you go to post.

 

If you want to know EXACTLY what you are spending and EXACTLY how much you are making then you have to take the time and research. But in my nearly 13 years experience working various MMO Bazaars, Auction Houses, and GTMs...it ain't worth all that effort. So long as you see your credits total increasing does it REALLY matter if you get a little less from one transaction over another two weeks apart?

Edited August 12, 2013 by psandak

[Deathstalker_]

Don't get me wrong; I agree. As long as my credits go up, I'm happy. But when someone asks me to craft them a couple of implants, how much do I charge per pop? How much is too much? I'm not concerned with the amount, so much as I am with having a fair price. I don't want to be the guy who gouges people because he doesn't know how much to charge, and I was hoping that if there was a hard and fast rule for determining how much any given item is worth, I would be able to charge fairly instead of selecting a random number that may be way over what the items are worth.

[ScarletBlaze]

Don't get me wrong; I agree. As long as my credits go up, I'm happy. But when someone asks me to craft them a couple of implants, how much do I charge per pop? How much is too much? I'm not concerned with the amount, so much as I am with having a fair price. I don't want to be the guy who gouges people because he doesn't know how much to charge, and I was hoping that if there was a hard and fast rule for determining how much any given item is worth, I would be able to charge fairly instead of selecting a random number that may be way over what the items are worth.

 

I usually make the mk-9 kits and they range from 90k to 100k per kit so this is the way I normally work it:

 

Guild Members and Close Friends- No charge

Others (I provide the mats) $85k

 

If they provide the mats most of the times I will not charge since my companion is doing the work and it is not taking me away from something. Though most of the time they tip me from 10k to 50k.

[magecutter]

But how do I know that the lowest price is the average price, and not someone trying to undercut the average price?

 

1 - Psandak's first answer is spot on. the prices are always changing, but within a given range.

( except for the few that are obviously way too high or too low, and you learn this with experience over time ).

 

2 - use the sorting options on the left side of the GTN menu to your advantage.

if you want to sell Blue quality 'Might Mod 3" then search only for that item. or better yet, set a lvl range lvl 13 to lvl 13 - quality Blue and click 'search' and you'll see all the mods for that lvl and the prices.

( look to see how many Might Mods are there or Reflex / Resolve, ect. if there are a bunch of Mights and no Reflex and the prices seem consistent then make a few Reflex Mods and see how they sell.

 

3 - use the 'Sort' by price/cost option in the GTN to examine the prices for what you want to sell ( or buy ).

( click the price/cost tab once to sort price 'lowest to highest' then click to sort 'highest to lowest', that will show the range. go back to the 'low/high' page and examine the first few pages. they will almost always show the common price point for a given item ).

 

4 - you know what materials you use to craft so start checking the price range for the mats you need.

again, sort by item name then price.

 

hover your cursor over the price and it will show a "Price per Unit" cost on stacks of materials.

pay attention to the price per unit number - say the first listing shows 500 per unit remember that and keep hovering over each listing on each page. you'll see a range of PPU's, if you find a PPU at say 150 and all the others are at 500 or more you know you have a good deal at that moment.

 

not only will you learn the common price for a given item/mat but you can quite often find a really good deal on mats.

and with that knowledge and experience you'll know... "the item cost about 500 credits to make and will sell at about 3000 credits". a nice profit margin. ( just a random number example ).

 

5 - on your 'Sell' page, when you first place an item for sale on the GTN it will display a sell price automatically. as a very general rule of thumb your selling price will be 3 to 5 times higher than that "suggested retail value' ( as I call it ). ( again, this is a very general rule of thumb with many exceptions ).

 

6 - it really does take time and practice to learn the in's and out's of the GTN. it can be a bit overwhelming at first but over time you will learn the common price points for your crafted items and the common prices for the materials you use all the time.

 

I hope at least some of what I've posted makes sense and best of luck to you on the GTN -

also, you might try this link

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=459921

[psandak]

Don't get me wrong; I agree. As long as my credits go up, I'm happy. But when someone asks me to craft them a couple of implants, how much do I charge per pop? How much is too much? I'm not concerned with the amount, so much as I am with having a fair price. I don't want to be the guy who gouges people because he doesn't know how much to charge, and I was hoping that if there was a hard and fast rule for determining how much any given item is worth, I would be able to charge fairly instead of selecting a random number that may be way over what the items are worth.

 

See that is a whole other ball-o-wax. Personally I stay away from crafting for individuals unless they are my friend or guildmate (in which case I charge nothing). I do ALL my crafting sales over the GTM. I have found it to be not worth the time, energy, and frustration to do what you are suggesting.

 

That being said, there are a couple of ways to handle this:

 

#1 - craft for mats and a fee or tip: this is most commonly done with high level item modifications. A player will craft an armoring, mod, enhancement, or augment (or a handful) and then state in general chat, "crafting X, Y, Z. Your materials + A fee. have premades available." The point is your customer gets the item right away, and you get materials to replenish your stock (and attempt to get an extra from a critical success) and some credits for your ability to craft the item in the first place. There is a difference between a fee and a tip: fee is required, tip is optional. If you and another player wish to conduct a transaction like this...GET THE DETAILS SETTLED BEFORE THE TRANSACTION EVEN BEGINS! Make sure that your customer is aware that you charge on top of trading finished good for materials. If an agreement cannot be reached just walk away, a lot of players will flame you for charging anything not matter how little it is. If you work for tips, be prepared for players who give you only materials, no credits.

 

#2 - find out what the lowest value is on the GTM and slightly undercut it and state in general chat, "selling X for Y credits." This is generally done to avoid the "GTM cut" taken out of the final sale on a GTM transaction.

[Antronio]

Don't get me wrong; I agree. As long as my credits go up, I'm happy. But when someone asks me to craft them a couple of implants, how much do I charge per pop? How much is too much? I'm not concerned with the amount, so much as I am with having a fair price. I don't want to be the guy who gouges people because he doesn't know how much to charge, and I was hoping that if there was a hard and fast rule for determining how much any given item is worth, I would be able to charge fairly instead of selecting a random number that may be way over what the items are worth.

 

I craft the underworld relic of boundless ages for around 500k + Matts. At the end of the day when trying to sell crafted items. One thing you always need to remember is that you're never gonna please everyone. Some people will think you are way overcharging for the item you're crafting and some people will think there getting a sweet deal!

 

So when trying to sell items always have an idea in you're head what you would be comfortable selling the item for. And I always haggle with someone who isn't comfortable paying for the item at the price I set (if its just a crafting fee. 300k 500k....... Doesn't really matter it's still profit )

 

And as everyone says checking the market is key for successful selling. It's pointless selling something if someone else is selling it for a lot less. If youre not going to make a profit on the item just hold on to the item and sell it at a later date (its not gonna go off if it saying in you're inventory for a couple of days)

 

 

Just remember that you decide what price it should sell for. But if no ones buying it then you might want to consider lowering you're price

[Mmurph]

You don't always have to undercut the lowest price on the GTN. If the lowest price is 10k for example, and there's only one, and the next group is 20k, set your price between the two and it should sell right after the cheaper one.

[modrogon]

Here is what I do:

I need to find out what my cost are for the mats. I run a couple of rich missions, write down the cost of the missions then divide the cost by the amount returned. This is my cost per mat. This cost per mat should not really change unless you get a lot of falures,

 

FYI: This might not work every well on the rare mats like [beryllius]. Only because you will not find any on most missions. I just check the prices on the GTN and use that for my cost per unit.

 

Now, I check the GTN and find out what the lowest going price is for the mats. I will check a couple of times a week. Because this an open market, the prices will go up and down. If the mats are cheaper then running missions, buy the mats from the GTN.

 

Note: you could farm the mats either on Makeb or running Flash Points (if you have the correct gathering skill for that Flash Point). But you are changing missions cost with your real time. Don't forget that time is money. But you could farm if you are doing Dailies/ waiting for group finder to pop.

 

Now to check the mats on the item you want to make. Please note that crafted armor and weapons do not sell well on the GTN. It's to easy doing quest/ flash points or buy items with commendations. They are ok to craft for leveling/ RE'ing then selling on the GTN.

 

Now one of the hard parts... finding out what does sell on your server that will make you money. I sell items modifications. I craft the blue and purple level 53 mods. I don't have the source to get mats for the level 55 stuff. I do get good money for that level 53 mods.

 

Now check the going prices for the items you plan on crafting then check the price it would cost you for making that item with your mats. If the cost is less then your cost per unit for your mats, then sell your mats on the GTN. You might need to check a couple of times a week. Remember this is an open market and the prices can go up and down. Knowing when to sell and for how much is a gut feeling. Sometimes you should wait until the prices go up.

 

If I crit on my crafting, I sell that as normal/. No point in lowering my price. I'm here to make credits. The buyer would not know or need to know I made an extra item,

 

When to craft purple vs blue:

If the cost of the blue items + the cost of the rare mats is more then the going price of the purple, then don't make purple items. Just make blue then check again on purple later in the week. Or, you could sell the rare mats on the GTN if the price is good.

 

I don't sell over general chat. If someone wants to buy something from me, they can do it from the GTN.

[Kerensk]

You don't always have to undercut the lowest price on the GTN. If the lowest price is 10k for example, and there's only one, and the next group is 20k, set your price between the two and it should sell right after the cheaper one.

 

^^This

 

If you end up with a situation where there is nothing to compare to check what the prices are for the same items a few levels above and below or a different color (green or purple) and adjust to fit the hole your item will fill.

 

If there is absolutely nothing, charge a whole lot and see if it sells. If it doesn't, you don't lose money, just repost it again at a lower price till it sells.

[Kerensk]

Duplicate Edited August 23, 2013 by Kerensk

[Larkie]

Most of what I would have said has already been said but I would say one thing about those talking about figuring out costs with missions...

 

I think that using mission cost to decide how much a mat costs you only works for casual crafters. For serious crafting most of your resources are going to have to be purchased from the GTN (due to lack of time/companions to send missions on and the need for large amounts of resources) and so the price that you can usually purchase them for is what you're going to use in your calculations.

 

Also, I dislike people that up their prices just because nobody else is selling. You should have a "normal" price for your items. Otherwise you're just ripping people off because you can. Some fluctuation is tolerable, especially when other people are selling but the greedy attitude of "nobody else is selling so I can charge as much as I want" is loathesome.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Larkie

[psandak]

I think that using mission cost to decide how much a mat costs you only works for casual crafters. For serious crafting most of your resources are going to have to be purchased from the GTN (due to lack of time/companions to send missions on and the need for large amounts of resources) and so the price that you can usually purchase them for is what you're going to use in your calculations.

I completely agree. And the truly serious crafter scours the listings for the cheapest price possible (he/she NEVER buys the singles), and buys up everything at that cheap price because that person knows they will get their money back eventually...again that pesky patience thing twice over .

Also, I dislike people that up their prices just because nobody else is selling. You should have a "normal" price for your items. Otherwise you're just ripping people off because you can. Some fluctuation is tolerable, especially when other people are selling but the greedy attitude of "nobody else is selling so I can charge as much as I want" is loathesome.

But you know what, if a buyer pays that outrageous price, why should the seller post lower? I said it earlier, the GTM is a buyer's market: buyer's don't buy...price is too high (sorry for the rhyme and meter )

[Shifty_Al]

I really wanted to post here and contribute but psandek pretty much said everything I might have said

 

I will respond to this though:

 

 

Most of what I would have said has already been said but I would say one thing about those talking about figuring out costs with missions...

 

I think that using mission cost to decide how much a mat costs you only works for casual crafters. For serious crafting most of your resources are going to have to be purchased from the GTN (due to lack of time/companions to send missions on and the need for large amounts of resources) and so the price that you can usually purchase them for is what you're going to use in your calculations.

 

Also, I dislike people that up their prices just because nobody else is selling. You should have a "normal" price for your items. Otherwise you're just ripping people off because you can. Some fluctuation is tolerable, especially when other people are selling but the greedy attitude of "nobody else is selling so I can charge as much as I want" is loathesome.

 

I, personally NEVER buy mats off the GTN to craft the Items I sell. I send out companions on all my characters every hour and twenty minutes on the dot, as often as I can. This cuts out the middle man (mats seller) and significantly increases my profits. I am currently trying to cull some "serious" crafters out of the market by looking at the total mats cost of the crafted item on the GTN and charging less for said crafted item. If "serious" crafters try to stay with me on price, they will be at a net loss. I am hoping many will say, "It's not worth it" which it won't be for them. Eventually, competition should decrease and prices should increase. I can afford to do this and still make 5 million per day. And it really must be done on my server. Too many scrubs think they can do what I do and get rich, and I'm not havin' it J/K, but it is a competition ultimately and I am doing what I feel is most healthy for the future market. My sig is not a joke and I earned it all totally legit (unless you consider it cheating to have 4 accounts full of crafting alts ).

 

So, even though I gather all my own mats, can I be a "serious" crafter too plz?

[psandak]

I really wanted to post here and contribute but psandek pretty much said everything I might have said

 

I will respond to this though:

 

 

 

 

I, personally NEVER buy mats off the GTN to craft the Items I sell. I send out companions on all my characters every hour and twenty minutes on the dot, as often as I can. This cuts out the middle man (mats seller) and significantly increases my profits. I am currently trying to cull some "serious" crafters out of the market by looking at the total mats cost of the crafted item on the GTN and charging less for said crafted item. If "serious" crafters try to stay with me on price, they will be at a net loss. I am hoping many will say, "It's not worth it" which it won't be for them. Eventually, competition should decrease and prices should increase. I can afford to do this and still make 5 million per day. And it really must be done on my server. Too many scrubs think they can do what I do and get rich, and I'm not havin' it J/K, but it is a competition ultimately and I am doing what I feel is most healthy for the future market. My sig is not a joke and I earned it all totally legit (unless you consider it cheating to have 4 accounts full of crafting alts ).

 

So, even though I gather all my own mats, can I be a "serious" crafter too plz?

 

IMO you are a little too serious

 

On The Harbinger...

 

With materials from gathering skills like Arch and Scav and BA I agree with you to a point. In those skills, certain materials are more common than others, usually because they are the default material returned from RE. These materials can usually be acquired more cheaply off the GTM but not always. For the less common materials pricing is outrageous on the GTM, and taking the time to run the missions is almost always more cost effective (there are exceptions). And the top end vendor available materials it is always better to run the missions than buy off the vendor (or the GTM).

 

However, materials from mission skills are completely different. Since most players are focused on the purple mats from UT metals and slicing parts for example, the blue quality "junk" materials can usually be acquired for FAR less than the cost of running missions. As an example I bought five stacks of Frasium for 18000 per stack, that's 182 per unit. The rich mission costs ~3200 to run and you get five frasium on a non-crit that's 600+ per unit. And since I sell mostly blue quality products (low cost good profit margin), it makes sense for me to buy those blue materials off the GTM when I start running low.

 

All that being said, my monetary goals are far more modest - I only have five characters on one account and only send out my companions two or three times a day. So if I net 500k a week I'm happy (I work the GTM as a mini-game not a means to a specific end like having enough to deck out in fully optimized grade 31/72 item mods).

[asbalana]

I really wanted to post here and contribute but psandek pretty much said everything I might have said

 

I will respond to this though:

 

 

 

 

I, personally NEVER buy mats off the GTN to craft the Items I sell. I send out companions on all my characters every hour and twenty minutes on the dot, as often as I can. This cuts out the middle man (mats seller) and significantly increases my profits. I am currently trying to cull some "serious" crafters out of the market by looking at the total mats cost of the crafted item on the GTN and charging less for said crafted item. If "serious" crafters try to stay with me on price, they will be at a net loss. I am hoping many will say, "It's not worth it" which it won't be for them. Eventually, competition should decrease and prices should increase. I can afford to do this and still make 5 million per day. And it really must be done on my server. Too many scrubs think they can do what I do and get rich, and I'm not havin' it J/K, but it is a competition ultimately and I am doing what I feel is most healthy for the future market. My sig is not a joke and I earned it all totally legit (unless you consider it cheating to have 4 accounts full of crafting alts ).

 

So, even though I gather all my own mats, can I be a "serious" crafter too plz?

 

Meh. You can't control everything all of the time. 5M a day is no big deal on "one" account - easy peasy. The biggest problem is to get up the motivation to earn more credits after certain goals are reached and you have more than you can spend in years and years of time.

 

When I see someone seriously undercutting, I usually move on to something else and make credits there and then come back to the initial item when they run out of steam. That is when I don't want to play with them and cause them some grief.

 

As far as the scrubs are concerned, I have made mine and they are entitled to earn theirs. My bank account is not affected by them and more power to them.

 

PS - I am mostly on Harbinger, but lately am spending a lot of time on BC. The comparison of the economies is amazing and there is some fun in starting over from scratch and building another financial empire. Having said that and having built my first pixil fortune on Harbinger, I can say that I have never seen or run across you and have a good idea of who the real players there are. What server are you on?

Edited August 22, 2013 by asbalana

[Shifty_Al]

If you don't know what server SuckaFish is on, you better ax somebody . And I did say I was JKing about the scrubs. I am a proud member of the Top US raiding guild. Unfortunately I can not raid right now due to school, work, RL BS. Plus fricken Papa , Roov, Stead, and Gorb are fricken DPS Gods. So I am just trying to do something to raise the profile of our guild a little more. Even if it is just that "a dude in SuckaFish is a Billionare" well, it is something I would guess most guilds don't have. I will be donating my next 100 million credits to the Gbank and buying Mae a Crate-o-matic (cuz she said she wanted one once). Of course it is way more creds than I could ever spend but the drive to be the best runs deep in this guild yo. Anyway, like what's his face said... I am a bit too serious... ICE.......MAN. But, I tell you this, any SuckaFish member in good standing that wants ANYTHING that costs creds in this game, all they have to do is ask me and it is done. I like being that guy.

[asbalana]

If you don't know what server SuckaFish is on, you better ax somebody . And I did say I was JKing about the scrubs. I am a proud member of the Top US raiding guild. Unfortunately I can not raid right now due to school, work, RL BS. Plus fricken Papa , Roov, Stead, and Gorb are fricken DPS Gods. So I am just trying to do something to raise the profile of our guild a little more. Even if it is just that "a dude in SuckaFish is a Billionare" well, it is something I would guess most guilds don't have. I will be donating my next 100 million credits to the Gbank and buying Mae a Crate-o-matic (cuz she said she wanted one once). Of course it is way more creds than I could ever spend but the drive to be the best runs deep in this guild yo. Anyway, like what's his face said... I am a bit too serious... ICE.......MAN. But, I tell you this, any SuckaFish member in good standing that wants ANYTHING that costs creds in this game, all they have to do is ask me and it is done. I like being that guy.

 

Hi

 

My name is Al as well, that is the al in asbalana, but I am not Shifty.

 

In any case, as I said, I am mainly on Harbinger although I have recently started a presence on Begeren Colony. You most likely are on one of the other servers since I am not aware of any fish (sucka, tuna, sticks, etc.) guilds on either. It may be that I missed your guild since I am mainly a soloist who plays with his wife and neither of us care for guilds so tend to ignore them. So what server are you on - I believe I did ask.

 

I'm glad that you were joking about the scrubs because scrubs are people too.

 

More power to you in making your first billion. To me and wifey, crafting was never that well done pre 2.0 and 2.0 took a bad thing and made it worse and more boring. So when I hit the 100M mark I just stopped trying for the most part. I am more fortunate than most in that my work does not restrict me and I can log on and send my minions out to gather and craft as often as I want during the day. Still, crafting has become much boring and how many credits can you want or need. It is also good to leave room for others to grow and prosper. I do have spurts where I sock in some credits, but they have become few and far between.

 

Anyway, best to you and your fellow suckas and may you swim fast and stong to your billion.

Edited August 23, 2013 by asbalana