Selenial Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Id just like to add for Benis scenario, Mygeeto didn't have incredible air defences, only had those anti-air turrets by the Mygeetian power core. Even though defences wouldn't really help anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Here's an interesting question. Would Aruk the Great be able to hire slicers to procure the schematics for DI fighters? Of course this question applies to Cronal as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Not sure, even if they can, takes time, and would require multiple in-tact fighters, hard to get... Hard to get... Even if its allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Not sure, even if they can, takes time, and would require multiple in-tact fighters, hard to get... Hard to get... Even if its allowed. Yes, hard to get indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Yes, hard to get indeed. What about capital ships though? Not very hard to get for me, difficult for the FE though... I'd love some nice mass driver canons (bar the ones I steal) and Plasma-Ion weapons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 What about capital ships though? Not very hard to get for me, difficult for the FE though... I'd love some nice mass driver canons (bar the ones I steal) and Plasma-Ion weapons... That would help even the playing field. As it stands, you are outgunned by a fair margin, so mass drivers and 'the big gun' would help a ton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 That would help even the playing field. As it stands, you are outgunned by a fair margin, so mass drivers and 'the big gun' would help a ton. Well, it's easy to take over their ships, especially when they're stealthed trying a flanking manoeuvre... Dm though, if the battle doesn't come immediately (meaning they have no CGT) I'll have a better fleet, due to my supplier being able to build capital ships, and the rule of not out producing your fleets original number.... I'd win But if you look at it, I'm out numbered by double really, at best.. 60 OCF, 30-Ish (might be 40, I forget) MSF, and 15 cruisers and some Marauders, accompanied business light cruisers as my OPENING garrison, facing 250 Consortium Vessels.... I can surround them, I have a large defence force when they have to leave fleets behind to protect their worlds, and I have the element of Surprise, along with major fighter superiority and Vessel capturing abilities.... Not as one sided as you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Well, it's easy to take over their ships, especially when they're stealthed trying a flanking manoeuvre... Dm though, if the battle doesn't come immediately (meaning they have no CGT) I'll have a better fleet, due to my supplier being able to build capital ships, and the rule of not out producing your fleets original number.... I'd win But if you look at it, I'm out numbered by double really, at best.. 60 OCF, 30-Ish (might be 40, I forget) MSF, and 15 cruisers and some Marauders, accompanied business light cruisers as my OPENING garrison, facing 250 Consortium Vessels.... I can surround them, I have a large defence force when they have to leave fleets behind to protect their worlds, and I have the element of Surprise, along with major fighter superiority and Vessel capturing abilities.... Not as one sided as you think. Remember the Munificents. Which are really just floating tissue paper... Cannon fodder at best. I'm hoping Beni makes the decision soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 1k+ posts, 13k+ views, and 119 pages in and still no resolution... wow quite the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 (edited) OK I think I got all the way through this. So a point I need to bring up, Cronal when I said he would not be by Traya's side and would want to take place in a battle its not because he is some kind of mad dog killer Cronal has 3 known peronsality traits. 1. Paranoia, fearful for his life and always thinking people are out to get him 2. Disdain for sith 3. Never wanting to be where the leader is. Number 3 is part of his paranoia and was proven true when the second death star blew and he was luckily far away. If he is on Malachor V Traya will not be, if she is then he will not be as he will do what ever he can do to physically distance himself from Traya as he sees her as having a giant red target painted on her back and with his paranoia doesn't want to be any where near when that target puts any one around her in danger. As for Traya facing off against Vader, this is funny with out Vader specifically being multi-teamed she dies in under 10 seconds. She is a powerful force user but her saber skills are greatly lacking by comparison to Vader, Vader has been known to disarm skilled saber duelists from the Golden Era with a single swing of his sword, Traya noted herself as a child in comparison to the old masters, by what we see Jaden do in the Jedi Academy game to one of these Old masters we can surmise that Vader greatly outstrips her in Saber combat. Top this off with being one handed (even Dooku used 2 hands when defending Anakin's blows, which were no where near as powerful as Vader's) and we are looking at a very clear case of her being disarmed in a single swing of Vader's saber and in the second swing she is cut in half by a Zone 1 attack. Also Vader's Suite vs Lightning I want you all to take a good hard look at a couple things first real lightning kills faster then force lightning, Real lightning will electicute some one to death in around 1/3 the speed of light so near instantly and you need an extremely powerful force user to hit a non force user with that kind of power hitting some one like vader with that is pretty much not happening unless you are some how extremely close to palps, Secondly go and watch all of the times vader's suite gets shorted from force lightning in every case the suite is damaged before the lightning hits him thus wiring is exposed thus the insilation is not defending it. His suite needs to be damaged before force lightning is going to affect it. Also there is no "CAP" to units you have what you start with there is nothing that says you can't use your ship yards to build more beyond that cap, the FE is perfectly capable of sitting and building more ships in prep for attack and so is the DI, the problem is the FE can potentially out produce the DI and they wont run out of money. Santhe may be rich but they are not so rich to be able to fund both themselves and the production of stuff through out the DI empire the lack of any economic world outside of your supplier hurts a lot. Finally really the thing that hurts the most is the Commanders. Traya is not known for being a military commander she is a big picture kind of girl she will leave the every day operations and execution of her plans to her space commander Trench and her Ground commander Cronal. Trench has a limited showing of stuff so we cant assume a whole lot about him, the only tactics we have really seen him do were defensive tactics and light siege so we know he is capable of that, hit and run does not seem to be his strategy once in a fight he faces it straight up and Vader has already beaten him once when Vader himself was a lesser man. With the numbers superiority Trench may get a small drop on Vader but it wont matter, assassins can and will kill trench just as the DI assassins can and will kill Arak. Vader will go after traya personally with droids and his best units and Cronal will not be there to defend, even if Traya is backed up by troops as long as vader has some of his own backing him (which he will) she is as good as dead, she just can not stand up to his saber skills, she is no where near as skilled with a blade as Vader is and her style would look clumsy by comparison. Edited August 26, 2013 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Yay, more long posts to reply to... I'm at lords for the afternoon, told myself I would try not to go on my phone too much, so I'll post when I get home.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 1k+ posts, 13k+ views, and 119 pages in and still no resolution... wow quite the match. It's amazing, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 It's amazing, isn't it? Imagine if it was me vs Warren.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Imagine if it was me vs Warren.... I think that would take forever. I do hope that happens in the next round, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 I think that would take forever. I do hope that happens in the next round, though. Only if warren loses her match too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Only if warren loses her match too.... You're not going to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 You're not going to lose. Im going to hold you to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Im going to hold you to that Sorry for the long post sel, I have been gone a week so missed a lot of stuff and couldn't say anything for a while, should note that I do believe a stealth assault on key points of FE worlds would be possible and probably even likely, but I do not think all of the attacks will be successful, but that just a couple successes could give the DI enough time to get a head start on equipment, but at the end of the day I don't know that it will be enough all in all I am eagerly awaiting whats going to happen this is easily the closest match up I have seen this whole Kaggath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Im going to hold you to that Alrighty then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 1. Paranoia, fearful for his life and always thinking people are out to get him 2. Disdain for sith 3. Never wanting to be where the leader is. He felt he wouldn't be safe on Byss with Papa Palps... And he wasn't a fan of how Palpatine acted. Kreia could convince him Malachor is Impregnable, and he'd like her. As for Traya facing off against Vader, this is funny with out Vader specifically being multi-teamed she dies in under 10 seconds. She is a powerful force user but her saber skills are greatly lacking by comparison to Vader, Vader has been known to disarm skilled saber duelists from the Golden Era with a single swing of his sword, Traya noted herself as a child in comparison to the old masters, by what we see Jaden do in the Jedi Academy game to one of these Old masters we can surmise that Vader greatly outstrips her in Saber combat. Top this off with being one handed (even Dooku used 2 hands when defending Anakin's blows, which were no where near as powerful as Vader's) and we are looking at a very clear case of her being disarmed in a single swing of Vader's saber and in the second swing she is cut in half by a Zone 1 attack. Riiiighhhttt.... Because Lightsaber combat is everything, and it's not like she dodged 10 seconds worth of Lightsaber strikes from an Echani Battle Master... And a Sith.... He won't disarm her in one swing, she's good at Trakata (I think that's the name, memory fails) and of course she could Telekentically activate another when he swings at her to buy her time.... Traya is also 30 years younger than Dooku, she just embraces her Dark Side Corruption... Also Vader's Suite vs Lightning I want you all to take a good hard look at a couple things first real lightning kills faster then force lightning, Real lightning will electicute some one to death in around 1/3 the speed of light so near instantly and you need an extremely powerful force user to hit a non force user with that kind of power hitting some one like vader with that is pretty much not happening unless you are some how extremely close to palps, Secondly go and watch all of the times vader's suite gets shorted from force lightning in every case the suite is damaged before the lightning hits him thus wiring is exposed thus the insilation is not defending it. His suite needs to be damaged before force lightning is going to affect it. No it doesn't... Short Circuiting his suit could happen simply through his Control Panel, he's been weakened by Lightning before, that's Indisputable. Traya+Cronal+Assassins in a Dark Nexus = Stray bolts of palpatines lightning... Also there is no "CAP" to units you have what you start with there is nothing that says you can't use your ship yards to build more beyond that cap, the FE is perfectly capable of sitting and building more ships in prep for attack and so is the DI, the problem is the FE can potentially out produce the DI and they wont run out of money. Santhe may be rich but they are not so rich to be able to fund both themselves and the production of stuff through out the DI empire the lack of any economic world outside of your supplier hurts a lot. I asked Beni about 3 times, no answer, but I think we assumed no going past Starting units, unless it's Supply Companies fleets... And they have Munificents, ships that are literally just Fodder. One shot from a SPHMA destroyed one, One Venator took on 8 and Didn't even get damaged. Traya is not known for being a military commander she is a big picture kind of girl she will leave the every day operations and execution of her plans to her space commander Trench and her Ground commander Cronal. Traya was behind the Triumvirates assaults, Nihilus just wanted to gobble gobble and Sion wanted a full out War. Traya was the one who decided to go Assassinate and Stealthily... That, and she can see Shatterpoints in the GALAXY. Shatterpoints in PLANETS.... She could probably do the same to fleets too. Vader will go after traya personally with droids and his best units and Cronal will not be there to defend, even if Traya is backed up by troops as long as vader has some of his own backing him (which he will) she is as good as dead, she just can not stand up to his saber skills, she is no where near as skilled with a blade as Vader is and her style would look clumsy by comparison. Not sure about that. He wouldn't unless he got hit hard at Raxus, Cronal will be there... and Vader's troops die to Traya.... She's not as skilled as Vader, but she doesn't have to be, hell, in my Scenario, she took a saber to the Chest, and still won due to her INCREDIBLE and Unprecedented powers in Dark healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 (edited) If she uses Trakkata she just gets cut in half Vader is too precise, the point is she isn't powerful enough in the force to keep Vader away and as soon as he closes the distance her saber skill is down right pathetic by comparison there is no way in hell she would last more then a couple seconds, she may be younger then Dooku but she is also still in worse physical shape has only one hand and is a complete noob as far as saber skill goes by comparison and even Dooku couldn't stand up against Anakin's power blows and Vader is even stronger, Vader has a history of disarming skilled duelists in a single blow Traya isn't even that and she isn't powerful enough to keep him away. Her lasting more then 10 seconds is laughable. Vader isn't going for a Zone 4 when he can just Zone 1 and end her there is no healing when your head has been sliced in half. Again go ahead look for a moment when force lightning worked on vader before his suit was already damaged, Palps, Vader's hand was cut off, Galen either his control panel was sliced or another portion of his suit was damaged its never happened. And it wasn't just Cronal didn't want to be with palps on Byss, he didn't want to be near Palps period. He did everything in his power to spend as little time right next to the big 2 as much as possible because he saw each of them as having a target on their backs and that's one more target he didn't want on his back with his paranoia its a noted character trait, there is nothing traya can do to make him want to stay next to her. Edit: also again Traya is not Nihilis she may have the potential to become like him but that doesn't mean she is currently max we have seen was 3 at a time I gave you 5 at a time any more then that and we are stretching her powers far beyond what was ever shown you cant do that. Edited August 26, 2013 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 If she uses Trakkata she just gets cut in half Vader is too precise, the point is she isn't powerful enough in the force to keep Vader away and as soon as he closes the distance her saber skill is down right pathetic by comparison there is no way in hell she would last more then a couple seconds, she may be younger then Dooku but she is also still in worse physical shape has only one hand and is a complete noob as far as saber skill goes by comparison and even Dooku couldn't stand up against Anakin's power blows and Vader is even stronger, Vader has a history of disarming skilled duelists in a single blow Traya isn't even that and she isn't powerful enough to keep him away. Her lasting more then 10 seconds is laughable. Vader isn't going for a Zone 4 when he can just Zone 1 and end her there is no healing when your head has been sliced in half. If that's your opinion, I can already tell there's no changing your mind, I guess we can leave it to Beni, no need to make more work for him... Again go ahead look for a moment when force lightning worked on vader before his suit was already damaged, Palps, Vader's hand was cut off, Galen either his control panel was sliced or another portion of his suit was damaged its never happened. 2 examples there... It's happened to Vader more than that. Hell, Vader was forced to his knees by Galens lightning when he hadn't even been attacked, let alone damaged. And it wasn't just Cronal didn't want to be with palps on Byss, he didn't want to be near Palps period. He did everything in his power to spend as little time right next to the big 2 as much as possible because he saw each of them as having a target on their backs and that's one more target he didn't want on his back with his paranoia its a noted character trait, there is nothing traya can do to make him want to stay next to her. Any sources to back this up? He hated palpatine but saw him as a route to power. He didn't think Byss held the defences that the Singularity did, nowhere is it stated he doesn't want to be near the most Powerful man in the Galaxy because "It's going to get him killed" Nothing would have taken Palpatine out on Byss, Cronal of all people would know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Traya+Cronal+Assassins in a Dark Nexus = Stray bolts of palpatines lightning... You should probably consider the other factors before making such an assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 (edited) If that's your opinion, I can already tell there's no changing your mind, I guess we can leave it to Beni, no need to make more work for him... 2 examples there... It's happened to Vader more than that. Hell, Vader was forced to his knees by Galens lightning when he hadn't even been attacked, let alone damaged. Any sources to back this up? He hated palpatine but saw him as a route to power. He didn't think Byss held the defences that the Singularity did, nowhere is it stated he doesn't want to be near the most Powerful man in the Galaxy because "It's going to get him killed" Nothing would have taken Palpatine out on Byss, Cronal of all people would know that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGRC3Ls4mk4 1:16 is about what will happen to traya once Vader closes the distance the skill level difference is the same only thing is she isn't getting the chance to run because vader is just cutting her down at that point. as far as Vader going to his knees against Galen his suite didn't short circuit there last I checked and only time it has has been when his suite was already damaged and Galen was more powerful in the force as well something Traya cant say Vader will be just as upped on Malachor as she will be all of this was my point even against palps Vader's suite was already damaged and had exposed wiring. Its the only time his suite shuts down on him when he already has exposed wires. Also supposedly according to the Mindor novel is where it supposedly states that Cronal preferred to distance himself from the person in power making sure Vader succeeded so that there was no chance that the emperor would replace Cronal as his right hand man so that Cronal could stay where he liked, distant and in the shadows as he preferred that. Edited August 27, 2013 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGRC3Ls4mk4 1:16 is about what will happen to traya once Vader closes the distance the skill level difference is the same only thing is she isn't getting the chance to run because vader is just cutting her down at that point. as far as Vader going to his knees against Galen his suite didn't short circuit there last I checked and only time it has has been when his suite was already damaged and Galen was more powerful in the force as well something Traya cant say Vader will be just as upped on Malachor as she will be all of this was my point even against palps Vader's suite was already damaged and had exposed wiring. Its the only time his suite shuts down on him when he already has exposed wires. Also supposedly according to the Mindor novel is where it supposedly states that Cronal preferred to distance himself from the person in power making sure Vader succeeded so that there was no chance that the emperor would replace Cronal as his right hand man so that Cronal could stay where he liked, distant and in the shadows as he preferred that. That's the most Random video ever linked on these forums Again, argue that all you like it won't change my mind. Give me some examples of when Vader has disarmed a skilled duelist in one hit. Besides, Traya won't be trying to get close into a duel, like those people must have been, she'd be staying away. She's also a far better sorcerer than you give her credit for. Vader was injured, but very briefly, he frantically gasped for air and then was fine... And you don't think Vaders suit would take ANY damage in the entire assault on malachor? One storm beast couldn't get a lucky Scratch off? Really? And I'd enjoy a quote, but that reasoning doesn't apply here anyway, as Traya doesn't even have someone for him to replace, bar trench, and he'd know he's not a good enough Tactician to warrant that anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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