Operator IX - NiM

[Felkroth]

I need some clarification. My guild runs NiM TFB fairly flawlessly each week, this week we missed the timed run title by like 2 minutes.

 

We run Operator IX with ease, and its very frustrating to execute mechanics so flawlessly yet sub-50% the Operator, after some shield phases he'll randomly decide to one shot a raid member. We agro dump on cooldown, we use defensives to the best of our ability.

 

We've eliminated the possibility of it being triggered by 1 individual getting BOTH of their colors, we've eliminated it happening when someone runs into the wrong color, we've tried seeing if its a ranged based one shot....We're just not clear what mechanic we're not doing correctly.....

 

 

....or even worse, that its not even a preventable mechanic, and that its just RNG...

 

 

So if its RNG, then it means we can do everything in our power to rock the encounter to only have luck screw us....this last time, as I said, it took us 4 pulls simply because we lost players to that one shot....just missing out on our Timed run title.

[Falver]

Our group has had this happen in HM if after a colored circle phase Operator skips deletion and targets a random player. Our solution to this was to taunt the boss towards the end of the colored channel. I don't know if this applies for NiM but I hope it helps.

[WillLongstick]

Very annoying mechanic/bug that can wipe an otherwise flawless run. Here's what I've heard as explanations work arounds:

 

-Taunt the boss right after the black obtuse channel ends.

-Taunt the boss right before the black obtuse channel ends.

-Everyone must be inside the shield around Operator when black obtuse channel ends.

-It's a heal check and you just have to have everyone topped off.

 

I've tried all of the in NIM as the main tank. The first 3 do not work 100% of the time, at best they work 50% of the time. The last strategy isn't really a strategy, but is a blunt and straight forward way of dealing with it, but it can be pretty difficult some times.

[Knopik]

Very annoying mechanic/bug that can wipe an otherwise flawless run. Here's what I've heard as explanations work arounds:

 

-Taunt the boss right after the black obtuse channel ends.

-Taunt the boss right before the black obtuse channel ends.

-Everyone must be inside the shield around Operator when black obtuse channel ends.

-It's a heal check and you just have to have everyone topped off.

 

I've tried all of the in NIM as the main tank. The first 3 do not work 100% of the time, at best they work 50% of the time. The last strategy isn't really a strategy, but is a blunt and straight forward way of dealing with it, but it can be pretty difficult some times.

 

i've read somewhere that it's a mechanic intended for the 2nd highest person on the threat table. The way we dealt with it in my old guild was to have a tank use an ability right out of shield then taunt, then have the other tank use 2(!) abilites and taunt, that way both tanks are #1 and #2 on the threat table. Worked most of the time.

(not guaranteed to fix as it worked for us and may not work for others, idk the mechanic still, this is all done under the assumption we made)

[Felkroth]

Our heals get the one shot a fairly solid amount of times....No way they're 2nd on the meter.

[Felkroth]

-It's a heal check and you just have to have everyone topped off.

 

I'm not quite clear with the healers about it, nor do I remember the dmg amounts that this supposed 'one-shot' actually hits for....but I kinda believed that it was a legitmate 1 shot ...as in whatev your hp is, it'll take it all.

 

But maybe that's not right, I can't remember.

[MGNMTTRN]

On HM we have both tanks taunt the boss as the channel finishes. We frequently get deletion phases and very infrequently have the boss turn off a tank. The one time in recent memory that we didn't get both taunts off, the boss did turn onto a non-raid member.

 

I don't think it's a timing issue and it's clearly not a threat issue; as far as I know the mechanic is just designed to require being hit with two taunts.

 

I've heard rumors that one precisely timed taunt is necessary and/or sufficient but I've yet to see actual evidence that it can be done.

[mmerry]

Just saw this post and here is a section of my log from the fight that he is referring to.

 

 

[21:36:03.006] [Operator IX {2994837745827840}:11831002461740] [@Wild-berry] [black Obtuse {2998471288160256}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (2860 energy {836045448940874}) <2860>
[21:36:03.296] [@Adrum] [@Wild-berry] [slow-release Medpac {1143320294195200}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Heal {836045448945500}] (768) <249>
[21:36:03.815] [@Devíldog] [@Wild-berry] [Kolto Bomb {3169148993536000}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Heal {836045448945500}] (2533) <1266>
[21:36:04.510] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [Deflection {812719481552896}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()
[21:36:04.511] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [Deflection {812719481552896}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Deflection {812719481552896}] ()
[21:36:05.335] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [Force Synergy {813174748086272}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Force Synergy {813174748086272}] ()
[21:36:05.504] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [spinning Strike {2295904832847872}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()
[21:36:05.504] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [] [spend {836045448945473}: Force {836045448938502}] (13)
[21:36:05.863] [@Wild-berry] [Operator IX {2994837745827840}:11831002461740] [spinning Strike {2295904832847872}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (4091 energy {836045448940874}) <4091>
[21:36:06.327] [@Adrum] [@Wild-berry] [slow-release Medpac {1143320294195200}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Heal {836045448945500}] (768) <249>
[21:36:07.058] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [Project {876461091192832}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()
[21:36:07.058] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [] [spend {836045448945473}: Force {836045448938502}] (16)
[21:36:07.058] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [Circling Shadows {2014421266202624}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Circling Shadows {2014421266202624}] ()
[21:36:07.059] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [Force Synergy {813174748086272}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Force Synergy {813174748086272}] ()
[21:36:07.059] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [Power Surge {3244358165856256}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Power Surge {3244358165856256}] ()
[21:36:07.059] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [] [Restore {836045448945476}: Force {836045448938502}] (10)
[21:36:07.060] [@Wild-berry] [Operator IX {2994837745827840}:11831002461740] [shadow Technique {979819479171072}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (905 internal {836045448940876}) <905>
[21:36:07.478] [@Wild-berry] [Operator IX {2994837745827840}:11831002461740] [Project {876461091192832}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (5367* kinetic {836045448940873}) <5367>
[21:36:07.538] [Operator IX {2994837745827840}:11831002461740] [@Wild-berry] [ {2998492762996736}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Blue Convex {2998492762997016}] ()
[color="MediumTurquoise"][21:36:07.932] [@Kerric] [@Wild-berry] [Guardianship {3186354632523776}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Guardianship {3186354632523776}] ()[/color]
[21:36:08.129] [@Adrum] [@Wild-berry] [slow-release Medpac {1143320294195200}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Heal {836045448945500}] (2433*) <790>
[21:36:08.528] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [Force Breach {964675424485376}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()
[21:36:08.528] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [] [spend {836045448945473}: Force {836045448938502}] (20)
[21:36:08.528] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [infiltration Tactics {813037309132800}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Infiltration Tactics {813037309132800}] ()
[21:36:08.529] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [shadow Technique {979819479171072}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Breaching Shadows {979819479171383}] ()
[21:36:08.529] [@Wild-berry] [Operator IX {2994837745827840}:11831002461740] [Force Breach {964675424485376}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (3829 internal {836045448940876}) <3829>
[21:36:09.020] [@Wild-berry] [Operator IX {2994837745827840}:11831002461740] [Force Breach {964675424485376}] [Event {836045448945472}: ModifyThreat {836045448945483}] () <1>
[21:36:09.578] [@Adrum] [@Wild-berry] [Emergency Medpac {807518276157440}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Heal {836045448945500}] (5288*) <1718>
[21:36:09.845] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [Force Potency {812745251356672}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()
[21:36:09.845] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [shadow Technique {979819479171072}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Breaching Shadows {979819479171383}] ()
[21:36:09.846] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [Force Potency {812745251356672}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Force Potency {812745251356672}] ()
[color="MediumTurquoise"][21:36:09.862] [Operator IX {2994837745827840}:11831002461740] [@Wild-berry] [Disinfection {3037607030161408}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (11975 energy {836045448940874}) <11975>
[21:36:09.862] [Operator IX {2994837745827840}:11831002461740] [@Wild-berry] [Disinfection {3037607030161408}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -deflect {836045448945508}) <1>
[21:36:09.863] [Operator IX {2994837745827840}:11831002461740] [@Wild-berry] [Disinfection {3037607030161408}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -deflect {836045448945508}) <1>[/color]
[21:36:10.261] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [Force Breach {964675424485376}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()
[21:36:10.261] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [] [spend {836045448945473}: Force {836045448938502}] (20)
[21:36:10.262] [@Wild-berry] [Operator IX {2994837745827840}:11831002461740] [shadow Technique {979819479171072}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (1671* internal {836045448940876}) <1671>
[21:36:10.262] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [shadow Technique {979819479171072}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Breaching Shadows {979819479171383}] ()
[21:36:10.262] [@Wild-berry] [Operator IX {2994837745827840}:11831002461740] [Force Breach {964675424485376}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (8444* internal {836045448940876}) <8444>
[21:36:10.718] [@Wild-berry] [Operator IX {2994837745827840}:11831002461740] [Force Breach {964675424485376}] [Event {836045448945472}: ModifyThreat {836045448945483}] () <1>
[21:36:11.147] [@Adrum] [@Wild-berry] [slow-release Medpac {1143320294195200}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Heal {836045448945500}] (1442) <468>
[21:36:11.886] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [shadow Strike {812839740637184}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()
[21:36:11.886] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [] [spend {836045448945473}: Force {836045448938502}] (12)
[21:36:11.886] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [Circling Shadows {2014421266202624}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Circling Shadows {2014421266202624}] ()
[21:36:11.886] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [infiltration Tactics {813037309132800}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Infiltration Tactics {813037309132800}] ()
[21:36:11.905] [@Simple] [@Wild-berry] [salvation {812990064492544}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Heal {836045448945500}] (639) <287>
[21:36:12.504] [@Wild-berry] [Operator IX {2994837745827840}:11831002461740] [shadow Strike {812839740637184}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (9237* energy {836045448940874}) <9237>
[21:36:12.865] [@Simple] [@Wild-berry] [salvation {812990064492544}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Heal {836045448945500}] (678) <305>
[21:36:13.072] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [Power Surge {3244358165856256}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Power Surge {3244358165856256}] ()
[21:36:13.528] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [spinning Strike {2295904832847872}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()
[21:36:13.529] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [] [spend {836045448945473}: Force {836045448938502}] (13)
[21:36:13.933] [@Simple] [@Wild-berry] [salvation {812990064492544}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Heal {836045448945500}] (678) <305>
[21:36:14.101] [@Wild-berry] [Operator IX {2994837745827840}:11831002461740] [spinning Strike {2295904832847872}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (6814* energy {836045448940874}) <6814>
[21:36:14.219] [@Adrum] [@Wild-berry] [slow-release Medpac {1143320294195200}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Heal {836045448945500}] (1442) <468>
[color="MediumTurquoise"][21:36:14.716] [Operator IX {2994837745827840}:11831002461740] [@Wild-berry] [Ranged Attack {3037602735194112}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -deflect {836045448945508}) <1>
[21:36:14.752] [Operator IX {2994837745827840}:11831002461740] [@Wild-berry] [Ranged Attack {3037602735194112}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -deflect {836045448945508}) <1>
[21:36:14.789] [Operator IX {2994837745827840}:11831002461740] [@Wild-berry] [Ranged Attack {3037602735194112}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -deflect {836045448945508}) <1>[/color]
[21:36:14.933] [@Simple] [@Wild-berry] [salvation {812990064492544}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Heal {836045448945500}] (678) <305>
[21:36:15.030] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [Project {876461091192832}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()
[21:36:15.030] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [] [spend {836045448945473}: Force {836045448938502}] (16)
[21:36:15.031] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [Circling Shadows {2014421266202624}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Circling Shadows {2014421266202624}] ()
[21:36:15.031] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [shadow Technique {979819479171072}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Breaching Shadows {979819479171383}] ()
[21:36:15.031] [@Wild-berry] [Operator IX {2994837745827840}:11831002461740] [shadow Technique {979819479171072}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (905 internal {836045448940876}) <905>
[21:36:15.032] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [Force Potency {812745251356672}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Force Potency {812745251356672}] ()
[21:36:15.485] [@Wild-berry] [Operator IX {2994837745827840}:11831002461740] [Project {876461091192832}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (5364* kinetic {836045448940873}) <5364>
[21:36:15.952] [@Simple] [@Wild-berry] [salvation {812990064492544}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Heal {836045448945500}] (1146*) <515>
[21:36:16.538] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [Clairvoyant Strike {980042817470464}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()
[21:36:16.538] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [] [spend {836045448945473}: Force {836045448938502}] (23)
[21:36:16.538] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [Circling Shadows {2014421266202624}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Circling Shadows {2014421266202624}] ()
[21:36:16.655] [@Wild-berry] [@Wild-berry] [Deflection {812719481552896}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Deflection {812719481552896}] ()

 

 

Unfortunately its a little hard to read, but I highlighted a couple things in blue. At 21:36:07 our guardian tank AOE taunted and the guardianship buff was added to me. At 21:36:09 I was hit 3 times by disinfection (2 hits were deflected since I had deflection up). Then at 21:36:14 I was hit again by OP IX's default ranged attack (which were all deflected again). Now I dont have our tanks logs atm, but you can see that he used his AOE taunt 2 seconds before I was hit with disinfection. Taunt mechanics should dictate that OP IX would still have 4 seconds of the fixate debuff when it turned and hit me. Im also not sure if there was any single target taunts used (I assume there was), but barring a mechanic that we are completely missing, OP IX should never have turned to attack me.

[TangoThree]

The issue is not a bug, it is a mechanic that is predictable and easy to counter if your tanks are on the ball.

 

When he comes out of black bisector there is a 3 second delay and then he casts one of two abilities

1) Colour Deletion - One random raid member will be targeted with a random colour and a player with a corresponding colour must stack together to avoid the damage

2) Disinfection - This one is harder to tell when it happens as it has no cast bar but essentially what happens is if he does not cast colour deletion he will target a random raid member and hit them for approximately 90% of their health. If he is not taunted back immediately he will cast a follow up attack that will kill that player. The "bug" that you are referring to happens when he comes out of black bisector and targets someone that was not healed up above 90% causing them to die to the first hit. There is not much you can do about this except to have people at low health use personal cooldowns to survive the initial impact and give your tanks time to grab the boss back.

 

I hope this helps you understand what is happening during that phase.

[mmerry]

Yep that makes sense, I went back and watched a stream from the fight and that looks like what is happening. Thanks for the info.

[Panzerfire]

Note that as far as I know there are two types of Disinfection. The first one is the one being cast on a random raid member instead of color deletion. The second type is cast on the maintank even if you have color deletion, not 100% sure about the timing of it but the tanks will have the triple Disinfection hits in their logs even if there was a color deletion. Although you won't notice this unless you have a Shadow/Assassin and all 3 hits go through all defences (3 x 10.5k hit).

 

As others have said, best thing to avoid the random one is making sure the boss has a taunt debuff on it when he does color deletion/disinfection so the follow up hit doesn't go to the same target as Disinfection.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Panzerfire

[paowee]

Afaik he puts disinfection on the 2nd highest guy on his threat list. I think i remember hearing in vent that op9 also aggro dumps. Have you tried the 2 tanks rolling taunts every after black obtuse?

[IronmanSS]

Having the tanks blow both taunts right after Black Obtuse is just going to leave them out of taunts when he aggro drops and picks someone to Disinfect.

 

When Black Obtuse ends whoever was previously tanking him will still have aggro. Exactly 3 seconds later, if OP IX chooses to Disinfect, he will drop all aggro and "target of target" will change to whoever is gonna get blasted. If the Tank taunts immediately after ToT changes, the lucky victim will only get hit once leaving them just barely alive. If the tank taunted too early (before aggro drop), or is too slow at getting him back, a 2nd hit will probably kill anyone.

It looks like a 1 shot since by the time anyone's client registers the 1st hit, he's about to do a 2nd, which is why the target of target change is better to use as a "reaction cue" for taunt. It's faster and more reliable than waiting to actually see someones HP at 10% or using the clear audio cue (high-pitched squealing from a raid member).

 

Summary: MT waits for Black Obtuse to end, 3 secs later Target of Target will change (indicating an aggro drop and targeted person taking a Disinfect) or Color Deletion will get called. If ToT changes, taunt immediately to save victim from certain doom on the next hit.

Edited August 5, 2013 by IronmanSS

[MythicalKnight]

I know it's been a full month since there's been any discussion on this, but does anyone have any better of a grip on this Disinfection mechanic?? Especially in NiM??

 

My raid team clears this fight on a weekly basis yet this one mechanic keeps us from getting a clean one shot and is holding us back on title runs. I found this video that perfectly shows what my raid team is going up against.

 

 

Jump ahead to 7:50 and then watch Op. IX very carefully. Go second by second if you need to.

 

What you'll see is that when Op. comes out of the shield he turns to one dps but kills another dps and then fires off Disinfection at the second dps. Hopefully this is nothing more than sever/client de-synch, but with how often this happens de-synch isn't the issue. Anyone have any thoughts as to how this works? Is it a bug? Is this working as intended?

 

(And please, don't say it's "aggro drop tanks must taunt". That's a HM based mechanic that we all learned in HM, it goes without saying. Keep discussion to NiM version ONLY, please.)

Edited September 5, 2013 by MythicalKnight

[Ausgelebt]

Keep the raid HP pool high, CD just in case. I don't think I ever got 1shotted by this. As I can see in your video the DPS dying is at about 57% life. If the group is topped up, noone will die. Edited September 5, 2013 by Ausgelebt

[MythicalKnight]

Keep the raid HP pool high, CD just in case. I don't think I ever got 1shotted by this. As I can see in your video the DPS dying is at about 57% life. If the group is topped up, noone will die.

 

This is already known. I'm asking for anything new, any conjecture, any theories. Also, if you had REALLY watched the video you would have seen the 4 raid wide aoe hits that put everybody that low in the first place, along with the healers running around to get colored circles, which means they can't output any effective heals. Unfortunately sir, you have been of no help.

Edited September 5, 2013 by MythicalKnight

[JDotter]

This is already known. I'm asking for anything new, any conjecture, any theories. Also, if you had REALLY watched the video you would have seen the 4 raid wide aoe hits that put everybody that low in the first place, along with the healers running around to get colored circles, which means they can't output any effective heals. Unfortunately sir, you have been of no help.

 

Both tanks didn't taunt only one did. You need both taunting after black obtuse. I had this issue the first week I was tanking the fight but was fixed and there are no one shots.

 

Also looked like the add knocked a tank onto a wrong color so may have been a coloe death delayed but going with what I posted first

Edited September 5, 2013 by JDotter

[Shandellon]

Simplest answer - it just happens

 

What we came up with is - you can see that it never happens along with Deletion Protocol. So our idea is, if boss' AI decides that if for any reason the Deletion Protocol he is about to use could not be solved (for example he rolled the Deletion Protocol to be yellow, but he detects no one with yellow debuff), he will not use it, but instead he would single target hit a random raid member for a high, but survivable amount of damage. Its not consistent, we as well saw exception from this, but its best we could think of

 

It is hardly a big issue and I can't think of a single attempt this would prevent us from a kill, so honestly no point in dwelling on this

[Ausgelebt]

Okay. Keep dying because of being unable to adapt to mechanics, you're welcome.

[KeyboardNinja]

What we came up with is - you can see that it never happens along with Deletion Protocol. So our idea is, if boss' AI decides that if for any reason the Deletion Protocol he is about to use could not be solved (for example he rolled the Deletion Protocol to be yellow, but he detects no one with yellow debuff), he will not use it, but instead he would single target hit a random raid member for a high, but survivable amount of damage. Its not consistent, we as well saw exception from this, but its best we could think of

 

This is true in Hard Mode, but Nightmare Mode appears to allow both Deletion Protocol and the "agro dump" in the same stretch between Black Obtuse. Tanks just need to be really, really on the ball.

 

To the best of my knowledge, it's possible to mostly avoid this by having both tanks taunt coming out of Black Obtuse. This causes the boss to dump to one of the tanks most of the time. The problem is that you're burning both taunts without a guarantee that it will fix the problem. If it fails, a raid member goes down every time. (you can't use the AoE taunt due to the adds)

 

The most reliable strategy in my experience is to keep everyone topped off at all times. Roll a gunslinger shield if that's not possible for whatever reason. Most importantly, train your tanks to stare at the Target of Target frame and instantly taunt when it drops. There simply cannot be a delay on this taunt. If you do it right, you should be fine. Watch the raid frame in the second phase:

As I recall, we had four agro dumps to non-tanks, only one of which was fatal, and then only due to low HP. We had one instance of an accidental double-taunt which caused it to dump to my cotank.

 

Basically, my group treats it as a healer- and tank-check mechanic. It's eminently beatable, you just have to be really on the ball.

[MythicalKnight]

Okay. Keep dying because of being unable to adapt to mechanics, you're welcome.

 

Oh, I'm sorry, let me clarify. I'm the sintank for the Phoenix Fury raid team of Torva Nex. We know what we're doing (http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6686851&postcount=404), and we know how to adapt. It's not my fault you can't bring anything new (or constructive for that matter) to this discussion. Thank you.

 

 

This is true in Hard Mode, but Nightmare Mode appears to allow both Deletion Protocol and the "agro dump" in the same stretch between Black Obtuse. Tanks just need to be really, really on the ball.

 

To the best of my knowledge, it's possible to mostly avoid this by having both tanks taunt coming out of Black Obtuse. This causes the boss to dump to one of the tanks most of the time. The problem is that you're burning both taunts without a guarantee that it will fix the problem. If it fails, a raid member goes down every time. (you can't use the AoE taunt due to the adds)

 

The most reliable strategy in my experience is to keep everyone topped off at all times. Roll a gunslinger shield if that's not possible for whatever reason. Most importantly, train your tanks to stare at the Target of Target frame and instantly taunt when it drops. There simply cannot be a delay on this taunt. If you do it right, you should be fine. Watch the raid frame in the second phase:

As I recall, we had four agro dumps to non-tanks, only one of which was fatal, and then only due to low HP. We had one instance of an accidental double-taunt which caused it to dump to my cotank.

 

Basically, my group treats it as a healer- and tank-check mechanic. It's eminently beatable, you just have to be really on the ball.

 

Thanks KBN, this is the best answer yet. There may be nothing new in your post, but it's an answer that has good analyzation of the situation and at the very least it'll give us something to tweak when we make our next title run.

 

Also, Ausgelebt, that is how you properly answer a question.

 

 

 

Keep the theories coming folks, cause shy of an official dev response explaining exactly how this works; I'm sure we'll never fully grasp how something clearable can be so frustrating.

[KeyboardNinja]

Keep the theories coming folks, cause shy of an official dev response explaining exactly how this works; I'm sure we'll never fully grasp how something clearable can be so frustrating.

 

Now if only we could answer the question of the arbitrarily target-swapping Radioactive Barrage… :-)

[Ausgelebt]

Wait, didn't he just also tell you to keep the group topped? Which is the only 100% solution to not get someone dying?

 

Damn.

[Shandellon]

Now if only we could answer the question of the arbitrarily target-swapping Radioactive Barrage… :-)

 

We believe (had like 80% confirmed situations) that Barrage swaps the moment a pylon is pressed by first person. Its set up to make it harder and force raid team to cooperate even better, as in reducing time between first and last person clicking and original barrage target to be aware and run away from pylon, to buy more time

[KeyboardNinja]

We believe (had like 80% confirmed situations) that Barrage swaps the moment a pylon is pressed by first person. Its set up to make it harder and force raid team to cooperate even better, as in reducing time between first and last person clicking and original barrage target to be aware and run away from pylon, to buy more time

 

I can confirm that it swaps at the pylon. The barrage actually *stops* while Kephess is faceplanted, and there's very little delay between clicking and planting, so the distinction between the two is somewhat meaningless. The swap becomes evident when the barrage resumes *after* Kephess gets back up.

 

I wouldn't mind the swap at all if there were actually a callout (or even just a debuff). It's problematic as a mechanic because there's very little way to control the situation when it randomly spawns in a close position while everyone is grouped up, since you really only get one or two guesses as to who it's on before it motors into the raid. Honestly, the "mechanic" feels a lot more like a bug that everyone just handles as if it were a mechanic (shades of Soa). I mean, it's far from fight-breaking, but it does throw some randomized salt on otherwise flawless pulls.

Edited September 5, 2013 by KeyboardNinja