The REAL Most Powerful Lightsaber Duelists

[tunewalker]

Yoda is stated as Mace Windu's dueling superior in the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook(IIRC) and G-canon sources.

 

If Mace Windu gets #2 because he defeated Darth Sidious, then Yoda should be placed shortly after. #3 or #4.

 

honestly this may be a good point and after rewatching yoda's fight with sidious its very clear sidious avoided a saber duel with the guy taking every advantage to get away and send barrage's of force attacks. So I think its almost gananteed Yoda is number 2, if of course he is better then Jaina, Jacen, and Vader (after further thought I kind of want to put Vader above Windu in skill considering how close Anakin was to Windu prior to.)

[Aurbere]

honestly this may be a good point and after rewatching yoda's fight with sidious its very clear sidious avoided a saber duel with the guy taking every advantage to get away and send barrage's of force attacks. So I think its almost gananteed Yoda is number 2, if of course he is better then Jaina, Jacen, and Vader (after further thought I kind of want to put Vader above Windu in skill considering how close Anakin was to Windu prior to.)

 

I believe (and this is by memory) that Yoda disarmed Sidious in the script. I don't know how canon that is, but just something I remembered.

 

I'm pretty sure Mace would beat Vader in a duel, but it would be close.

 

Though, what are we considering for this thread? Who can beat who? Or just skill?

[tunewalker]

I believe (and this is by memory) that Yoda disarmed Sidious in the script. I don't know how canon that is, but just something I remembered.

 

I'm pretty sure Mace would beat Vader in a duel, but it would be close.

 

Though, what are we considering for this thread? Who can beat who? Or just skill?

 

I think it might be pure skill.... since each form does kind of have its weaknesses, I am just not sure its hard to determine, but other then the ones I mentioned I think other candidates for the lower spots are Dooku, Katarn, Cin drallig, Corran Horn.

 

Dooku of course being the top of that list.

Edited August 3, 2013 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

I think it might be pure skill.... since each form does kind of have its weaknesses, I am just not sure its hard to determine, but other then the ones I mentioned I think other candidates for the lower spots are Dooku, Katarn, Cin drallig, Corran Horn.

 

Dooku of course being the top of that list.

 

Dooku obviously makes this list. Especially based on pure skill.

[Darth_Omega]

Yes I agree, but I am saying I think he performed/would perform better in duels with his abilities and armor from (the large majority) of book 2. Take note at the Tython Duel he was holding off a duel wielding Jedi Master who was considering one of the best the order had ever seen at that point, another Jedi Master, and a Jedi Knight. All them were also boosted by a 3rd Master whose specialized in Battle Meditation. That to me, is more impressive than deflecting rain and overpowering Zannah and that's why I consider this to be his "Lightsaber Prime".

 

Think about this way, would you rather be a 13 year expert (and yes he was def an expert to say that least at that point) in combat and only have to defend your head or a 23 year expert to a higher degree but have to defend your whole body? For me I'll take the first category.

 

Edit: If we are allowed to include armor in these arguments.

 

I'm not sure if armor is allowed. Doesn't matter though, Bane should still be in the top 10 duelists.

[sell-dog]

I'm not sure if armor is allowed. Doesn't matter though, Bane should still be in the top 10 duelists.

 

Agree for sure. With the armor I would push for a higher ranking though but without def still top 10

 

Edit: Higher ranking as in attempt to put him in the top 5

Edited August 3, 2013 by sell-dog

[Beniboybling]

Are we considering duelists in their "Force Prime" or "Lightsaber Prime"? Is the question we are asking who would be who under both duelists prime dueling period?

 

For example, I think and would argue that obviously Darth Bane's Force Prime is in the 3rd novel but his Lightsaber Prime is when he had the orbalisk armor in book 2. Are we taking armor into account?

I would disagree, with his orbalisk armour Bane's fighting style was brutish and aggressive, with the armour it became much more refined. But anyway, I think its all a matter of opinion. So lets just say height of their existence.

 

Though to be honest, his orbalisks didn't improve his lightsaber ability in anyway.

[Beniboybling]

Yes I agree, but I am saying I think he performed/would perform better in duels with his abilities and armor from (the large majority) of book 2. Take note at the Tython Duel he was holding off a duel wielding Jedi Master who was considering one of the best the order had ever seen at that point, another Jedi Master, and a Jedi Knight. All them were also boosted by a 3rd Master whose specialized in Battle Meditation. That to me, is more impressive than deflecting rain and overpowering Zannah and that's why I consider this to be his "Lightsaber Prime".

 

Think about this way, would you rather be a 13 year expert (and yes he was def an expert to say that least at that point) in combat and only have to defend your head or a 23 year expert to a higher degree but have to defend your whole body? For me I'll take the first category.

 

Edit: If we are allowed to include armor in these arguments.

Really I don't think Bane stands a chance of getting a place on this list anyway. He is outclassed by many others.

[Aurbere]

Really I don't think Bane stands a chance of getting a place on this list anyway. He is outclassed by many others.

 

I concur.

[Beniboybling]

So what are are thoughts on this, the candidates for #2 seem to be Windu, Sidious and Yoda. To summarize:

 

Sidious was a Sith Swordsmaster who mastered all seven forms of lightsaber combat and stances. He is incredibly fast and incredibly strong and has schooled Jedi Council Members and even Luke Skywalker

 

Mace Windu was a Jedi Swordsmaster and considered one of the greatest lightsaber duelists produced by the Order, he was a master of all seven forms of lightsaber combat and developed his own deadly perfection of Form VII - of which he was the only Jedi to fully master.

 

Yoda was considered one of the greatest duelists of all time, mastering Ataru to the highest degree.

 

Now, apparently according to Aurbere Yoda is a better duelist than Windu. However this doesn't seem very much self evident. That said Yoda may only seem a slave to form because of poor directing if anything. I would say that Windu would lose to Sidious is a lightsaber duel, but lightsaber duels can be one through superior Force power rather than superior skill. And Sidious is a far more powerful Force user. Whereas Windu mastered the arguably perfect form that could even redirect lightning and in general was ridiculously bad@ss.

 

Its very difficult to call. I think I'd like to say Windu but we do have to respect canon if we want this to be an accurate list - anymore information on Windu's ranking in relation to Yoda would be appreciated.

[Aurbere]

So what are are thoughts on this, the candidates for #2 seem to be Windu, Sidious and Yoda. To summarize:

 

Sidious was a Sith Swordsmaster who mastered all seven forms of lightsaber combat and stances. He is incredibly fast and incredibly strong and has schooled Jedi Council Members and even Luke Skywalker

 

Mace Windu was a Jedi Swordsmaster and considered one of the greatest lightsaber duelists produced by the Order, he was a master of all seven forms of lightsaber combat and developed his own deadly perfection of Form VII - of which he was the only Jedi to fully master.

 

Yoda was considered one of the greatest duelists of all time, mastering Ataru to the highest degree.

 

Now, apparently according to Aurbere Yoda is a better duelist than Windu. However this doesn't seem very much self evident. That said Yoda may only seem a slave to form because of poor directing if anything. I would say that Windu would lose to Sidious is a lightsaber duel, but lightsaber duels can be one through superior Force power rather than superior skill. And Sidious is a far more powerful Force user. Whereas Windu mastered the arguably perfect form that could even redirect lightning and in general was ridiculously bad@ss.

 

Its very difficult to call. I think I'd like to say Windu but we do have to respect canon if we want this to be an accurate list - anymore information on Windu's ranking in relation to Yoda would be appreciated.

 

Master Yoda was a master of all seven lightsaber forms.

 

The Power of the Jedi Sourcebook ranks Yoda above Windu, I believe. Paraphrasing: "Yoda is considered the Temple's greatest swordmasters."

 

Also, Windu admits his own inferiority to Yoda.

[Aurbere]

To be honest, I'd actually go with this layout for Top 2-4:

 

2.Mace Windu.

3.Darth Sidious.

4.Master Yoda.

 

Their so close that the spots could be interchangeable. Also considering that GL puts them all on the same level as the only ones that can fight each other on equal ground.

[TheSelkie]

Based on pure skill I'd probably say Sidious then Yoda then Mace. I think Mace beat Sidious, but only because Mace's style was particularly good against him - if it hadn't been for that advantage then Sidious would have won in my opinion. I recall reading somewhere that Yoda regularly beat Mace in duels, but I could be wrong on that.

[Aurbere]

Based on pure skill I'd probably say Sidious then Yoda then Mace. I think Mace beat Sidious, but only because Mace's style was particularly good against him - if it hadn't been for that advantage then Sidious would have won in my opinion. I recall reading somewhere that Yoda regularly beat Mace in duels, but I could be wrong on that.

 

Power of the Jedi Sourcebook, IIRC.

[Darth_Omega]

Master Yoda was a master of all seven lightsaber forms.

 

The Power of the Jedi Sourcebook ranks Yoda above Windu, I believe. Paraphrasing: "Yoda is considered the Temple's greatest swordmasters."

 

Also, Windu admits his own inferiority to Yoda.

 

I think Yoda should be number 2. I didn't read the novel, but episode 3 makes it seem like Sideous was trying to avoid enging in lightsaber dueling with Yoda. I feel like that's because Yoda was beating him when they first started their battle.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Darth_Omega

[TheSelkie]

Had a quick look at The Power of the Jedi Sourcebook, the most relevant quote I could find:

"In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents ever overcame [Windu] in battle. One was Master Yoda, who some said was the Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was former Master Dooku, whose own fighting style was archaic, yet stunningly effective."

No other quotes comparing the two seem to be specifically about lightsaber ability.

[Aurbere]

Had a quick look at The Power of the Jedi Sourcebook, the most relevant quote I could find:

"In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents ever overcame [Windu] in battle. One was Master Yoda, who some said was the Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was former Master Dooku, whose own fighting style was archaic, yet stunningly effective."

No other quotes comparing the two seem to be specifically about lightsaber ability.

 

Ah, that's it. I really should see if I can find my copy.

[UncleOst]

Greetings to all my color-lord friends from the rainbow brigade!!!

 

I look forward to joining another fun filled thread of adventure and debate!

 

My response is( you can geuss ),

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bane Bane Bane.

 

Thank you and have a great day !!!

[Aurbere]

Bane Bane Bane.

 

Thank you and have a great day !!!

 

I understand why you would nominate Bane (because he's your favorite character apparently), but I don't think he could make the list.

 

I would nominate my favorite character, but he would get shot down pretty quickly.

[wuzzuliki]

Could Galen Marek go up there?

[Aurbere]

Could Galen Marek go up there?

 

Possibly. It depends on where Vader is going to end up sitting.

[Aurbere]

Also, I would nominate Exar Kun for a spot. While Rayla could make the case better than I ever could, I am prepared to make one as well.

[Darth_Omega]

Also, I would nominate Exar Kun for a spot. While Rayla could make the case better than I ever could, I am prepared to make one as well.

 

Exar kun could definately make this list. His usage of Niman was amazing.

[Aurbere]

Exar kun could definately make this list. His usage of Niman was amazing.

 

He is the greatest Niman user of all time. An innovator with the form. He took the form's code of moderation, and threw it out the window, taking the form to its highest levels. Speed, unpredictability, and sheer power combined with the Dark Side mastery of the Old Republic's greatest Dark Lord of the Sith.

 

And that is not any sort of fanboysim talking.

[Darth_Omega]

He is the greatest Niman user of all time. An innovator with the form. He took the form's code of moderation, and threw it out the window, taking the form to its highest levels. Speed, unpredictability, and sheer power combined with the Dark Side mastery of the Old Republic's greatest Dark Lord of the Sith.

 

And that is not any sort of fanboysim talking.

 

Saying it like that makes it seem like he could be on Yoda's level. Do you think that's probable? I think so...

Edited August 4, 2013 by Darth_Omega