The REAL Most Powerful Lightsaber Duelists

[Aurbere]

Never said or was making the argument in that post that they were ahead of Kenobi. Just mentioning, or re-mentioning, skilled lightsaber duelists from a different era than the era highlighted by yourself to ensure that the nomination process is as thorough as can be.

 

Of course, but I doubt any of those you mentioned would make the list.

 

I see Obi-Wan Kenobi as the best candidate for #10.

[sell-dog]

Of course, but I doubt any of those you mentioned would make the list.

 

I see Obi-Wan Kenobi as the best candidate for #10.

 

I agree. Plagueis was mentioned on the last page. Plageuis disliked dueling but I think there is a character statement from Tenebrous saying that Plageuis was the man at it. I don't remember him doing anything too special in the novel but it's been a while since read the book. At the moment I don't see him pushing Kenobi off the inside track for #10.

[Beniboybling]

Nvm, re read the scenario, You declared them dead equals... That's different, i guess

Your confusing Force ability with lightsaber ability. An acceptable mistake as the two are often indistinguishably intertwined. Malgus defeated Kenobi out of raw Force power, but through fueling his Djem So onslaught with Force rage and through channeling his Force power's directly.

 

Regardless I'm not sure where you got the idea that Malgus was superior, Malgus failed to break Kenobi's Soresu while Kenobi managed to land a hit - I'd say that's pretty clear cut to me.

[AlexDougherty]

Obi-Wan Kenobi is certainly a contender for last spot, and I think he'll actually get it, but I think Kit Fisto might give him a run for his money, Kit is certainly a skilled saberist and nearly defeated General Greivous (wookiepedia), so definately not unskilled. Masters Micah Giiett and Plo Koon should probably be considered too.

[LadyKulvax]

What about Asajj Ventress? she was considered to be able to defeat any two Jedi single-handedly (apart from Yoda and Windu of course).

 

I think she should be deeply analysed and not dismissed out of default.

[Beniboybling]

What about Asajj Ventress? she was considered to be able to defeat any two Jedi single-handedly (apart from Yoda and Windu of course).

 

I think she should be deeply analysed and not dismissed out of default.

Asajj Ventress is skilled, but she never mastered a single form. So for that reason I'd put quite a few people above her i.e. Shan, Malgus, Darach, Maul, Fisto, Koon, Vos etc. Ventress was also unable to defeat Kenobi in single-combat, having her saberstaff cut in half and one saber disarmed before retreating.

 

And of course I'd always put Darth Maul above her. However I think Obi-Wan is superior to Maul.

 

I'd just like to elaborate on Kenobi's abilities and feats:

 

Has been touted as one of the greatest lightsaber duelists of his time and was a high level master of Ataru, Shii-Cho and Niman, he was an absolute master of Soresu and was also highly skilled in Jar'Kai.

 

As a Padawan, Kenobi defeated Mace Windu in a training duel, then went on to hold his own effectively against Darth Maul - a master lightsaber duelist - and cut his saberstaff in two. Arguably performing better than Jinn.

 

As a Master, Kenobi mastered Soresu to the highest extent and was described as literally being capable of walking unscathed through hornet-swarms of blasterfire. And using pure Soresu he

two of Grievous' hands before losing his lightsaber and forced Count Dooku into a backpedaling retreat.

 

Kenobi's mastery over Ataru and Jar'Kai was most evident when he took on the combined offense of Darth Maul and Savage Opress, in a confined space. Taking on two of Ataru's biggest weaknesses and beating them.

[Beniboybling]

Obi-Wan Kenobi is certainly a contender for last spot, and I think he'll actually get it, but I think Kit Fisto might give him a run for his money, Kit is certainly a skilled saberist and nearly defeated General Greivous (wookiepedia), so definately not unskilled. Masters Micah Giiett and Plo Koon should probably be considered too.

Kit Fisto is a great duelist. But I'm wouldn't say he's better than Kenobi. Kenobi arguably perfomed better than Fisto against Grievous and Fisto displayed a failure to perfect his Form when he was almost killed by Ventress' refined Makashi - an opponent Kenobi managed to defeat.

[Selenial]

Kit Fisto is a great duelist. But I'm wouldn't say he's better than Kenobi. Kenobi arguably perfomed better than Fisto against Grievous and Fisto displayed a failure to perfect his Form when he was almost killed by Ventress' refined Makashi - an opponent Kenobi managed to defeat.

 

Arguably, Fisto did better against grevious for the reason that Kenobi had to use the force to escape Grevious having him trapped.

 

Fisto sliced off an arm, and was beating him down until 6 magnaguards arrives, hell, Even Grevious himself noted that Fisto was beating him until they arrived, when he said:

How Quickly the tides can turn!

[marcelo_sdk]

Lol, how Jaina Solo was declared #6, I can't understand the logic on this thread, really.

[TalonVII]

Wow how could people not consider bladmaster Kas'im. Fights in every style possible, killed his own master and took the blademaster title and influenced the Rule of two of the apprentice slaying the master to prove the apprentice is worthy.

 

Aubere, how can you say Kas'im isn't worthy of the list? He was actually WIDELY regarded of the best saber duelest of his day! By both Sith and Jedi

[Beniboybling]

Lol, how Jaina Solo was declared #6, I can't understand the logic on this thread, really.

Perhaps you'd like to share your own logic with us...

[Selenial]

If we're looking for more to debate for number 10, I'd Nominate Qui-Gon Jinn

[Beniboybling]

If we're looking for more to debate for number 10, I'd Nominate Qui-Gon Jinn

I'd say Kenobi surpassed him and then some.

 

Not only was he a better Ataru duelist, but he perfected his fighting style by incorporating Soresu and Shien.

[Selenial]

I'd say Kenobi surpassed him and then some.

 

Not only was he a better Ataru duelist, but he perfected his fighting style by incorporating Soresu and Shien.

 

Damn, must have a terrible memory, could have sworn in his Prime he was a match for Dooku...

Eh, maybe I'm remembering it wrong..

[Aurbere]

Aubere, how can you say Kas'im isn't worthy of the list?

 

The argument kinda writes itself...

[TalonVII]

The argument kinda writes itself...

 

Still one of the best duelists of his day, if not THE best, just the dark side of the force that beat him.

[Aurbere]

Still one of the best duelists of his day, if not THE best, just the dark side of the force that beat him.

 

Again, the argument writes itself. Need I explain?

[TalonVII]

Again, the argument writes itself. Need I explain?

 

What because you consider Bane weak, and Bane took him out right? Up until Bane brought down that arch that Killed Kas'im, Bane was on the losing end of that Duel and had he not pulled that trick, would of died.

[Aurbere]

What because you consider Bane weak, and Bane took him out right?

 

Just one of many reasons.

[TalonVII]

Just one of many reasons.

 

again it isn't force power aurbere, it's skill with a blade. And if you've read the bane trilogy[which I know you have], you know why I said Kas'im. Best duelist of his day. Again had it not been for that use of the force to drop that ledge, Kas'im would of won the duel.

 

And remember Aurbere, this isn't about skill with the force, it's skill with a blade, put this guy up against obi-wan, he'd beat him IMO. Hell it's my opinion that Kas'im should be HIGHER on the list as I think he could beat Exar Kun, Jaina Solo, and Vader in a clash of sabers.

[UncleOst]

again it isn't force power aurbere, it's skill with a blade. And if you've read the bane trilogy[which I know you have], you know why I said Kas'im. Best duelist of his day. Again had it not been for that use of the force to drop that ledge, Kas'im would of won the duel.

 

And remember Aurbere, this isn't about skill with the force, it's skill with a blade, put this guy up against obi-wan, he'd beat him IMO. Hell it's my opinion that Kas'im should be HIGHER on the list as I think he could beat Exar Kun, Jaina Solo, and Vader in a clash of sabers.

 

YA MAN!!!!

 

 

Give these self-righteous color-tards Hell...

[Beniboybling]

YA MAN!!!!

 

 

Give these self-righteous color-tards Hell...

Please, don't demean Talon's argument by supporting him with your typical crudeness.

 

I think Kas'im is someone who should be discussed, but we have to remember that with the exception of Exar Kun, the majority of the most outstanding duelists - and those that would make this list - came after the era he existed in. So being touted as the best lightsaber duelist of his day, if not ever (which it should be noted is hardly from a reliable source) does not necessarily constitute a place on this list, which with the exception of Kun is all post-Old Republic.

 

Instead we should judge him by his own merits, he's a battlemaster, and highly skilled in the use of Ataru, Juyo and Jar'Kai. Such mastery in my opinion means he can ascend no higher than to 6th place. However I feel it is likely Jaina was a something of a battlemaster herself, and proved her abilities against Caedus. And Exar Kun, by taking Niman to his highest level, surpasses Kas'im as well. So in reality he can go no further than 8th place.

 

This is where the specialists come into play. A playing field in which you would expect a swordsmaster to rise to the top. However, as Count Dooku points out, a master of a single style can defeat a master of many. And Vader, Dooku and Obi-Wan were the masters of their respective styles. And on top of that possessed extensive knowledge of the other forms. Can the same be said for Kas'im? Is his Juyo on par with that of Maul, his Ataru on par with that of Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon? I would think not. And I don't feel 'dabbling', as Dooku would put it, in all forms constitutes a place on this list, no more than in would give Cin Drallig an edge. These guys simply didn't possess a high enough level of skill in their personal forms to content with those that had. Regardless of their knowledge of other styles.

 

Again I nominate Kenobi for #10 - and some complete consensus would be lovely.

[TalonVII]

Please, don't demean Talon's argument by supporting him with your typical crudeness.

 

I think Kas'im is someone who should be discussed, but we have to remember that with the exception of Exar Kun, the majority of the most outstanding duelists - and those that would make this list - came after the era he existed in. So being touted as the best lightsaber duelist of his day, if not ever (which it should be noted is hardly from a reliable source) does not necessarily constitute a place on this list, which with the exception of Kun is all post-Old Republic.

 

Instead we should judge him by his own merits, he's a battlemaster, and highly skilled in the use of Ataru, Juyo and Jar'Kai. Such mastery in my opinion means he can ascend no higher than to 6th place. However I feel it is likely Jaina was a something of a battlemaster herself, and proved her abilities against Caedus. And Exar Kun, by taking Niman to his highest level, surpasses Kas'im as well. So in reality he can go no further than 8th place.

 

This is where the specialists come into play. A playing field in which you would expect a swordsmaster to rise to the top. However, as Count Dooku points out, a master of a single style can defeat a master of many. And Vader, Dooku and Obi-Wan were the masters of their respective styles. And on top of that possessed extensive knowledge of the other forms. Can the same be said for Kas'im? Is his Juyo on par with that of Maul, his Ataru on par with that of Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon? I would think not. And I don't feel 'dabbling', as Dooku would put it, in all forms constitutes a place on this list, no more than in would give Cin Drallig an edge. These guys simply didn't possess a high enough level of skill in their personal forms to content with those that had. Regardless of their knowledge of other styles.

 

Again I nominate Kenobi for #10 - and some complete consensus would be lovely.

 

Disagree. I think his juyo surpassed Maul's he practiced a form of Ataru that was specialized for two sword fighting, so it went hand in hand with Jer'kai, and he was a smart teacher. He never taught his students two saber style of fighting so he'd always have an advantage over them. He mastered just about every fighting style in the book one handed, saber staff and DUAL wielding. I mean come on. From what I have read, he might of been the best at Jer'kai style of fighting. Plus he was the one that instilled bane[yes i know bane, but it's the example] that knowing the katas of a style is all well and good, it merely makes you a rote mechanical lightsaber fighter. But when you learn to make the style as much a part of you as it is breathing, so it's so fluid, so graceful, that you do it without thinking and can do even more with the style, don't you think he'd of mastered every single style like that since it was his philosophy Ben?

 

I mean go back to the sections when he was teaching Bane in secret and I mean REALLY teaching them, when he tells Bane about the katas he is teaching them is merely a tool to true mastery of a style.

[Aurbere]

again it isn't force power aurbere, it's skill with a blade. And if you've read the bane trilogy[which I know you have], you know why I said Kas'im. Best duelist of his day. Again had it not been for that use of the force to drop that ledge, Kas'im would of won the duel.

 

And remember Aurbere, this isn't about skill with the force, it's skill with a blade, put this guy up against obi-wan, he'd beat him IMO. Hell it's my opinion that Kas'im should be HIGHER on the list as I think he could beat Exar Kun, Jaina Solo, and Vader in a clash of sabers.

 

And yet, despite all of his vaunted skill, he could not best a neophyte Bane in lightsaber combat. Instead, he was forced to rely on a skill that Bane had no experience with.

 

Also remember that despite Cin Drallig's credentials, he was easily bested by Darth Vader.

 

Kas'im was the best of his day. Too bad his day played host to a collection of very pathetic Sith.

[Aurbere]

YA MAN!!!!

 

 

Give these self-righteous color-tards Hell...

 

Oh, please continue! I'm sure we could all benefit from your sophisticated vocabulary.