Xinika Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) Can you please stop advising people not to use it? That's just meh.. Why is that 'meh'? Because the idea of LS->CrD is 'cool'? Sure, it is cool, but cool is hardly efficient and I posted the mechanics behind why it is not. I've beaten it into the ground not to have a set rotation on any ability. That means if a situation calls for it, where 'the stars align', go ahead and use it. But against someone who's aware of this 'trick', it will not work. Again, I will not advise using this against good players. Edited July 31, 2013 by Xinika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Why is that 'meh'? Because the idea of LS->CrD is 'cool'? Sure, it is cool, but cool is hardly efficient and I posted the mechanics behind why it is not. I've beaten it into the ground not to have a set rotation on any ability. That means if a situation calls for it, where 'the stars align', go ahead and use it. But against someone who's aware of this 'trick', it will not work. Again, I will not advise using this against good players. It works on anyone. If you shroud my crd, gg.. free cooldown off of you for me. If you don't, it worked. So it will work. At the very best, you can phasewalk it as a sin. Otherwise it's going to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) It works on anyone. If you shroud my crd, gg.. free cooldown off of you for me.... That GCD that could've been a Maul is now nothing more than a 300 damage tick (or none) to which, your opponent now has reaction time so they can have deflection (or saber ward) up - ready to parry what could've been a 5 - 8k attack, in addition to yourself now being behind in force. (Which means less attacks out, which means less DPS) This isn't even an argument. Mechanics clearly show why using this religiously is putting yourself at a disadvantage. Once more, I'll repeat 'if the stars align' go for it. If it does not, this should be avoided nearly 9/10 times. Edited July 31, 2013 by Xinika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NamikazeNaruto Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) The enemy isnt doing anything when hes low slashed. It doesnt cost any time. That's what makes it so good. Because its free damage. Can you please stop advising people not to use it? That's just meh. Ofcourse you don't use it in a group fight.. but when do you find yourself in a group fight as a sin? When you're alone or 1v2.. you should most definitely use it. Believe me, I will have plenty of force to kill you. It's not free damage, there is a force cost to cast it. I wouldn't use it at all unless the enemy is stunned and has no type of cleanse up and also has no CC break. It is a very situational ability. If the enemy is not stunned, he is going to interrupt you, or worse, he will wait until your hard cast has 0.1 seconds left on it and then use his force shroud to block your damage, or instantly cleanse off the damage. Also CC breaks on Low Slash can happen as well, and you may have missed your chance to get your maul off before they break CC and turn around. Edited July 31, 2013 by NamikazeNaruto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andar Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 The only problem with doing this every time is it makes you predictable. So you low slashed follow up by mind crush. Your enemy can now pop shroud and you don't have low slash to counter it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 That GCD that could've been a Maul is now nothing more than a 300 damage tick (or none) to which, your opponent now has reaction time so they can have deflection (or saber ward) up - ready to parry what could've been a 5 - 8k attack, in addition to yourself now being behind in force. (Which means less attacks out, which means less DPS) This isn't even an argument. Mechanics clearly show why using this religiously is putting yourself at a disadvantage. Once more, I'll repeat 'if the stars align' go for it. If it does not, this should be avoided nearly 9/10 times. The CrD and maul go off at exactly the same time. Because CrD is a cast. The GCD is over before the cast is completed. Try and find an operative and ask him to mash his evasion when you have him lowslashed and cast CrD. Instantly maul after the CrD and watch how you will still get that maul off regardless of the Evasion mash. It might cost some force, but it's worth it. People can CC break the low slash while im casting but guess what.. i LOVE that because its absolutely terrible and allows me to play with them for the rest of the time we fight. So many options to stomp them into the ground at that point that you can basically already call yourself winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 The only problem with doing this every time is it makes you predictable. So you low slashed follow up by mind crush. Your enemy can now pop shroud and you don't have low slash to counter it. What if i LS > CrD > Electrocute > Maul? Can't shroud anymore now. You can break it, but then i have your breaker. You can sit it, then you will die. You can break and shroud at the same time.. and then it's christmas for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 The only problem with doing this every time is it makes you predictable. So you low slashed follow up by mind crush. Your enemy can now pop shroud and you don't have low slash to counter it. Pretty much this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Pretty much this. I will sit the shroud, doesn't matter. I'll shroud at the same time not a problem. Then the person shrouding will come out first, and i will followup with an electrocute.. Really, there is no downside to doing this for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow-scale Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 What if i LS > CrD > Electrocute > Maul? Can't shroud anymore now. You can break it, but then i have your breaker. You can sit it, then you will die. You can break and shroud at the same time.. and then it's christmas for me. Cant tell if trolling or serious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andar Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 It's a really silly argument. Thats a big IF to think you can get electrocute off (on GCD) before my resilience (off the global cooldown). You're very confident ill give up that, but you should sometimes consider the possibility that your not always right. It makes for a better living experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 It's a really silly argument. Thats a big IF to think you can get electrocute off (on GCD) before my resilience (off the global cooldown). You're very confident ill give up that, but you should sometimes consider the possibility that your not always right. It makes for a better living experience. The global cooldown is completed before the CrD is cast. You won't get your shroud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyDarkkitten Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 fascinating debate and all. I was pretty sure using CD didn't feel right, but I couldn't tell you why; big thank you to the experienced Sins here who have. Well your all here and debating though, Can I ask if Im supposed to win as a tankasin v deception in 1v1s on nodes? I find this fight difficult, more then any other in fact. Most classes even maras I can annoy and hold off for a bit hopefully until help arrives. Whereas snipers and dps sins murder me. Is that how its supposed to roll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 fascinating debate and all. I was pretty sure using CD didn't feel right, but I couldn't tell you why; big thank you to the experienced Sins here who have. Well your all here and debating though, Can I ask if Im supposed to win as a tankasin v deception in 1v1s on nodes? I find this fight difficult, more then any other in fact. Most classes even maras I can annoy and hold off for a bit hopefully until help arrives. Whereas snipers and dps sins murder me. Is that how its supposed to roll? Are you using Tank or DPS gear as Darkness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xethis Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I see both sides to this argument. You can us Crd inside of a Low Slash and take advantage of getting a 2 second cast off when other wise it would be next to impossible. If they pop their cc breaker and shroud it then that opens the door for them to be hard stunned and no way to avoid some potentially big Discharge and Shock crits. So they either eat the damage and you get to increase your burst for the next few seconds, or they blow cd's and put themselves in a bad spot for the rest of the fight. On the flip side, if I decide to use CrD inside a Low Slash, if they are able to cc break and interrupt me, or just wait and shroud the back end damage, if I don't have my hard stun then I just screwed myself out of some force and got to wait 3-4 seconds before I can Shock/Discharge. My maul will still be available so if I can gain positioning then I might still be able to do something. But if this happens you really just should have Mauled when you had time to get good positioning. Out of the three specs I run for pvp only one uses Low Slash but I chose to not use CrD because the spec I run has really bad force management and my force is better spent on abilities that can proc Energize. I am on the fence with this debate. The only thing I can say is that it is very situational and there are many variables that go into the pros and cons of using CrD inside of Low Slash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 fascinating debate and all. I was pretty sure using CD didn't feel right, but I couldn't tell you why; big thank you to the experienced Sins here who have. Well your all here and debating though, Can I ask if Im supposed to win as a tankasin v deception in 1v1s on nodes? I find this fight difficult, more then any other in fact. Most classes even maras I can annoy and hold off for a bit hopefully until help arrives. Whereas snipers and dps sins murder me. Is that how its supposed to roll? In tanking gear you will lose, given that it takes a while.. In dps gear not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) In tanking gear you will lose, given that it takes a while.. In dps gear not so sure. Assuming DPS gear with equal gear footing. A Darkness Sin with all CDs will absolutely destroy the Deception Sin. Edited August 1, 2013 by Xinika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) Assuming DPS gear with equal gear footing. A Darkness Sin with all CDs will absolutely destroy the Deception Sin. Not destroy, but it's definitely far easier to win. There is still the aspect of outplaying though. Edit: I'm levelling on your server btw, just to prove you wrong Edited August 1, 2013 by Evolixe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow-scale Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Not destroy, but it's definitely far easier to win. There is still the aspect of outplaying though. Edit: I'm levelling on your server btw, just to prove you wrong why do you find it necessary to be such a forum warrior on every post you make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 why do you find it necessary to be such a forum warrior on every post you make? I am who I am, deal with it or put me on ignore, either suits me fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I am who I am, deal with it or put me on ignore, either suits me fine. Dude take some friendly advice, Save yourself the bother. you have no chance I've seen Shin play and I have seen you play and their is no comparison. Shin and roudy would be different, but you? sorry computer says no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Dude take some friendly advice, Save yourself the bother. you have no chance I've seen Shin play and I have seen you play and their is no comparison. Shin and roudy would be different, but you? sorry computer says no. We'll see about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 We'll see about that. Aye you still streaming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Aye you still streaming? I could only do that from dreamhack sadly, should be from home sometime soon though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pizzel Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 What u all think about 1vX? Whats better. Darkness or deception? Before 2.0 kinetic was easier. But since i returned after 2.0 i do much better with deception in these instances. Also for node guard i am curious to hear more about dps gear darkness vs dps deception. For civil war i attack in beginning as deception or waka. Then when we take node i re spec to darkness. Is that what most sins do. Or does it depend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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