Kaggath Tournament - Sol’yc Empire vs Krayt’s Vision

[tunewalker]

Esseles will be the sight of the first battle, it seems. A quick strike on the SE capital could kill its leaders and bring a quick end to the war.

 

With the small size of the ground force though it has the ability to move quickly as a cohesive group, I do believe an attack on esseles is garenteed but I am also 100% certain Tenel Ka will escape.

[Aurbere]

With the small size of the ground force though it has the ability to move quickly as a cohesive group, I do believe an attack on esseles is garenteed but I am also 100% certain Tenel Ka will escape.

 

Except for the Interdictors...

[tunewalker]

Except for the Interdictors...

 

Yes, and no I am certain a ship theft could take place or they could leave out the back side of the planet where the intradictors are not, with out the KV even knowing they are there before they are gone, kind of like the smugglers at the battle of bilbirigini in the thrawn trilogy.

[LadyKulvax]

Yes, and no I am certain a ship theft could take place or they could leave out the back side of the planet where the intradictors are not, with out the KV even knowing they are there before they are gone, kind of like the smugglers at the battle of bilbirigini in the thrawn trilogy.

 

Except the Infiltrator Probots will not only be taking over some of the ships, the Viper Probe Droids will also keep an eye on all ships, when killing your enemy leader is crucial, keeping your eye on ALL ships in the system is crucial and an enemy ship attempting an escape will have Ardent-class Fast Frigates waiting for them in their target system.

Edited July 29, 2013 by LadyKulvax

[tunewalker]

Except the Infiltrator Probots will not only be taking over some of the ships, the Viper Probe Droids will also keep an eye on all ships, when killing your enemy leader is crucial, keeping your eye on ALL ships in the system is crucial and an enemy ship attempting an escape will have Ardent-class Fast Frigates waiting for them in their target system.

 

Do those not take time to build this first skirmish would have to be done early on to catch Tenel there, also if this is the case there is a possibility she will just hide down on the planet there is enough room on the planet that 1000 people can disappear.

 

Also the space battle over head are there any defenses against space assault on esseles I am not aware reason I am asking.

[Beniboybling]

Esseles will be the sight of the first battle, it seems. A quick strike on the SE capital could kill its leaders and bring a quick end to the war.

Except the KV has no idea where on the planet they are. Its not just a case of bombarding the Imperial Citadel and done deal. Most likely the SE is going to be hiding in the mountains, Fort Cravus to be exact - and we have no reason to assume the KV will no of that location.

 

And even then the SE Leadership has plenty of time to evacuate.

[Beniboybling]

Except for the Interdictors...

Except the possibility that the SE might think "heck we're outnumbered, our fleets all the way at Bilbringi and our enemy is right on our doorstep... maybe we should leave?"

[LadyKulvax]

Do those not take time to build this first skirmish would have to be done early on to catch Tenel there, also if this is the case there is a possibility she will just hide down on the planet there is enough room on the planet that 1000 people can disappear.

 

Also the space battle over head are there any defenses against space assault on esseles I am not aware reason I am asking.

 

No they are given to me via my supplier and are actually part of the Imperial Army, they also saw sustained use after the Imperial Remnant.

 

Simply put the first thing coming in will be probe droids and probots, then immediately after the fleet attacks, the infiltrators can take over numerous ships in the battle and worse the Viper Probe Droids will keep track of all ships in the system, making them easy targets for Ardents to hunt down, lets face it the only viable remaining systems for them to retreat to would be either Mandalorian space itself or all the way to Telos IV and either of those are too far away to make it to before the Ardents catch up.

 

Also, even if she does hide down on Esseles, remember Base Delta Zero? the Sith did it before, they would do it again.

[Beniboybling]

Do those not take time to build this first skirmish would have to be done early on to catch Tenel there, also if this is the case there is a possibility she will just hide down on the planet there is enough room on the planet that 1000 people can disappear.

 

Also the space battle over head are there any defenses against space assault on esseles I am not aware reason I am asking.

As an unwritten rule, each faction will have a fair number of resources from their suppliers already available to them. Based on the in-universe reality that one is prepared for a Kaggath before a Kaggath begins.

 

However blockading a planet is an option, they managed it with Taris pretty fine...

 

EDIT: That said any ship would come out of the city of Taris, effectively one side of the planet.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

Also, even if she does hide down on Esseles, remember Base Delta Zero? the Sith did it before, they would do it again.

Esseles is a fortress world, so I'd assume they'd have planetary shields. So they'd have to find the generator and shut that down first.

[LadyKulvax]

Esseles is a fortress world, so I'd assume they'd have planetary shields. So they'd have to find the generator and shut that down first.

 

Since when? the wiki page says nothing of it being either a Fortress World or having a planetary shield?

[tunewalker]

Since when? the wiki page says nothing of it being either a Fortress World or having a planetary shield?

 

It had evolved into a military fortress world by the time the planet became one of the Core Founders of the Galactic Republic.[

 

 

First line of history section.

[LadyKulvax]

It had evolved into a military fortress world by the time the planet became one of the Core Founders of the Galactic Republic.

 

 

First line of history section.

 

Way back in the founding days sure, modern day? it was an industrial centre.

[Beniboybling]

Way back in the founding days sure, modern day? it was an industrial centre.

I doubt it devolved.

[LadyKulvax]

I doubt it devolved.

 

By the time of the Galactic Civil War it had become a major industrial planet, it would be more like evolving, there is no need for a fortress world when you're surrounded by Brentaal, Anaxes and Carida.

[LadyKulvax]

Regardless even if you take it as when it was a Fortress World, Planetary shielding wasn't developed till the GGW.

[tunewalker]

Way back in the founding days sure, modern day? it was an industrial centre.

 

Also look at points of interest many of the most noted points of interest are military bases suggesting it was still what it started as, so it still likely is a fortress world, also last I checked we could have a planet from when ever it was at, example obviously in later eras Alderaan was blown up yet we still are able to have it even if our other planets or naval or ground forces have stuff from after its destruction. Part of the Dream team portion of this It doesn't all have to be from the same era.

[StarSquirrel]

Well, I'd like to give a massive thanks to Beni and Warren with a shout-out to Tune for doing an excellent job at being impartial. I'll post my responses to the current arguments in an hour or so.

[LadyKulvax]

Nearly 1am here so signing off till late tomorrow, hopefully my supporters can pick it up for me.

 

And well done on the relative neutrality going around.

[StarSquirrel]

Ok, so I see we've moved on from leaders for a bit to focus on the big picture.

 

Tenel Ka is a smart leader. Between her and Jaina they are masters at psychological warfare and manipulation. Daala will be especially vulnerable considering her affair with Nek. Tenel Ka is also an expert at avoiding and/or surviving assassination attempts and coups so she'd certainly have a full-proof escape from Esseles planned should the need arrive.

 

Now we must remember here that KV is unaware of many of my movements. Even with probots, they'd have to survey thousands if not millions of systems before they'd even reach the Expansion Region in their attempt to find me. Best to say, the probes droids are best left to be used as the Empire did, perimeter scouts and advanced recon. They don't give you a perfect view of what I'm doing.

 

As for the Core. Nek is the master of tactics in the Core, hit and runs, traps, you name it he's been successful with it. The Core is extremely well mapped, so Nek could take the smaller SE fleet on a merry dance, devastating KV forces in small attacks. (this would of course be much later in the fighting.

 

Now, I agree I will likely lose Esseles in the opening stages (though KV will pay an extremely high price on the ground). The second attack would probably be Bilbringi yes, I agree to that as well. Thing is, I'd imagine that a small prod or sabotage in the time between would convince Krayt and especially Pallaeon to hold enough of the fleet back to ensure you don't make an extremely risky bet.

 

If they attack Bilibringi, yeah that would be bad, even with them holding back a force to defend I think I might just lose that too. I still think Nek would make them suffer for it. Also I still have Mandalore's shipyards plus Mandalmotors so its not like I'm hopeless in space.

 

From here though, it gets very hard for KV to move out. Also I'd like to mention that Foerost is not easily defended. Several factions throughout the galaxy repeatedly captured fleets at Foerost to use against the Republic. You'd think the Republic would guard entire fleets still in production so it stands to reason that Foerost is difficult to defend. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Boba and a strike force of commandos and HK-50's repeatedly infiltrated Foerost and dropped a fleet at the fringe of the system to pull the defenders out while they slipped out the back. No losses for SE and plenty of new warships.

 

Also Tenel Ka will likely be held up on Myrkr or Telos IV after Essesles, though not sure which...

 

As for the Neo Crusaders vs Mando Cabure in space? Well I'd prefer the supercommandos because they where more honorable, better trained, and well versed in hit-and-run tactics but if you (Beni) think I need to use the Neo Crusaders because they have more info them I'm willing to accept it.

 

As for Daala's allegiances, thank god for Warren! Daala did indeed have an affair with Nek, in fact he may have been her only true friend and love. She'd certainly have split convictions. If Nek showed for one second that he had a chance in hell of winning (so he'd need a major victory) I'd say Daala would turn. Daala respected Tenel Ka as a successful woman and she felt something of a kinship with Boba so that would help. Honestly Rayla don't feel bad about admitting this though, there are things we can never account for and it is debates like this that bring those to light. I'm just waiting for a side with Jango or Leia to appear and screw me over...

 

This Kaggath will stretch our factions to the edge and eventually something is going to give. Expect it for the rest of the tournament, cause that's where the fun comes from.

[tunewalker]

I'm just waiting for a side with Jango or Leia to appear and screw me over...

 

 

*curses self for improperly argueing his own team thus never getting to laugh as Jaina switches sides in a heart beat, and buying Boba Fett*

Edited July 30, 2013 by tunewalker

[Warren-Stride]

As for Daala's allegiances, thank god for Warren!

 

Thanks!

 

I felt like I hit the jackpot when I found that.

[Aurbere]

First off, Star, excellent work. But I owe a debt to Rayla so I'm afraid that I will have to counter this argument. Since it's late where I am, I'll be more impartial.

 

Ok, so I see we've moved on from leaders for a bit to focus on the big picture.

 

Tenel Ka is a smart leader. Between her and Jaina they are masters at psychological warfare and manipulation. Daala will be especially vulnerable considering her affair with Nek. Tenel Ka is also an expert at avoiding and/or surviving assassination attempts and coups so she'd certainly have a full-proof escape from Esseles planned should the need arrive.

 

Not a counter in and of itself, but Nek has his own vulnerability: a lack of knowledge of the Force. During the Dark Nest Crisis, Nek showed a complete and utter ignorance for Jedi capabilities. This will not affect his allegiance, but it will affect how he approaches Darths Krayt and Talon.

 

Now we must remember here that KV is unaware of many of my movements. Even with probots, they'd have to survey thousands if not millions of systems before they'd even reach the Expansion Region in their attempt to find me. Best to say, the probes droids are best left to be used as the Empire did, perimeter scouts and advanced recon. They don't give you a perfect view of what I'm doing.

 

I was under the impression that the enemy's planets were known to each faction.

 

As for the Core. Nek is the master of tactics in the Core, hit and runs, traps, you name it he's been successful with it. The Core is extremely well mapped, so Nek could take the smaller SE fleet on a merry dance, devastating KV forces in small attacks. (this would of course be much later in the fighting.

 

The Core is well-mapped. The Deep Core? Not so much. In fact, hyperspace lanes are constantly remapped, and hyperspace travel in the Deep Core is nigh impossible. The deeper you go, the worse it gets.

 

Hit and run tactics will not be effective here.

 

Also, in order to effectively enter the Deep Core, you pretty much have to go through Foerost.

 

Now, I agree I will likely lose Esseles in the opening stages (though KV will pay an extremely high price on the ground). The second attack would probably be Bilbringi yes, I agree to that as well. Thing is, I'd imagine that a small prod or sabotage in the time between would convince Krayt and especially Pallaeon to hold enough of the fleet back to ensure you don't make an extremely risky bet.

 

It's likely that the heavy resistance on Esseles alone would cause the KV to stall, if only for a short period of time.

 

If they attack Bilibringi, yeah that would be bad, even with them holding back a force to defend I think I might just lose that too. I still think Nek would make them suffer for it. Also I still have Mandalore's shipyards plus Mandalmotors so its not like I'm hopeless in space.

 

Not hopeless, but at a disadvantage. Your ship output would be greatly reduced.

 

From here though, it gets very hard for KV to move out. Also I'd like to mention that Foerost is not easily defended. Several factions throughout the galaxy repeatedly captured fleets at Foerost to use against the Republic. You'd think the Republic would guard entire fleets still in production so it stands to reason that Foerost is difficult to defend. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Boba and a strike force of commandos and HK-50's repeatedly infiltrated Foerost and dropped a fleet at the fringe of the system to pull the defenders out while they slipped out the back. No losses for SE and plenty of new warships.

 

Unless Boba or the HKs are in a stealthed vessel, infiltration is unlikely thanks to the massive HK Probot.

 

Also Tenel Ka will likely be held up on Myrkr or Telos IV after Essesles, though not sure which...

 

As a Force user, Myrkr is unsafe for Tenel Ka. Telos is a much safer place. It is out of the way, and not really an important target. Unless the KV knows about your HK factory.

 

As for Daala's allegiances, thank god for Warren! Daala did indeed have an affair with Nek, in fact he may have been her only true friend and love. She'd certainly have split convictions. If Nek showed for one second that he had a chance in hell of winning (so he'd need a major victory) I'd say Daala would turn. Daala respected Tenel Ka as a successful woman and she felt something of a kinship with Boba so that would help. Honestly Rayla don't feel bad about admitting this though, there are things we can never account for and it is debates like this that bring those to light. I'm just waiting for a side with Jango or Leia to appear and screw me over...

 

Since I have a hatred for Daala that burns with the fire of a thousand suns, I will not comment. I'll leave it to Rayla.

 

This Kaggath will stretch our factions to the edge and eventually something is going to give. Expect it for the rest of the tournament, cause that's where the fun comes from.

 

Every battle will be this way. I have no doubt that this will carry on past the 1000 post mark. I feel that this will be the tone for the rest of the Kaggaths.

[tunewalker]

I'm personally still unconvinced on both sides, but if Daala does switch over or become a spy it would be a huge asset to the SE and could spell doom for the KV, though the real difficulty will still be slaying Krayt if he is on Byss thanks to the Dark Side Nexus there, though I am unsure Jaina would truly be effected by it because of her experience with the Dark Side so she may be as amped as Krayt and if I had to hedge a bet on who between the 2 would win 1v1 it would most certainly be on Jaina, Dark transfer ability works as a form of Force lightning so its blockable by the same means at least that's what I have read.

 

 

I think Squirl is slowly winning me over with the idea of heavy losses at the start but causing the KV to spread itself to thin and thus allowing hit and runs to be more and more effective, along with potential betrayal and sabotage.

[Aurbere]

I'm personally still unconvinced on both sides, but if Daala does switch over or become a spy it would be a huge asset to the SE and could spell doom for the KV, though the real difficulty will still be slaying Krayt if he is on Byss thanks to the Dark Side Nexus there, though I am unsure Jaina would truly be effected by it because of her experience with the Dark Side so she may be as amped as Krayt and if I had to hedge a bet on who between the 2 would win 1v1 it would most certainly be on Jaina, Dark transfer ability works as a form of Force lightning so its blockable by the same means at least that's what I have read.

 

 

I think Squirl is slowly winning me over with the idea of heavy losses at the start but causing the KV to spread itself to thin and thus allowing hit and runs to be more and more effective, along with potential betrayal and sabotage.

 

Darth Krayt on one of the most powerful Dark Side Force nexi in Galactic History can't defeat Jaina Solo? How does that happen?