Sage, or Shadow?

[mistformsquirrel]

So, I have a bit of a conundrum going... I've been having loads of fun on my Guardian of late, and particularly I'm enjoying the heck out of Force Push. Tossing mobs around is silly amounts of fun. I'm also enjoying having Force Stasis not require a channel time - it lets me, within 10m, basically control the opponent to the point where my Companion can kick the crap out of them without concern.

 

All this has inspired me to look at the Consular again. I've had a Shadow in the past, but I only got to level 25 with it, largely because I wasn't a fan of Theran or Qyzen... however I'm willing to push past that this time I think.

 

The problem is: I'm just not sure which class to go with. I love lightsabers, so that'd push me toward Shadow since they get actual saber attacks to go with their force powers... but on the other hand I really love the idea of tossing mobs all over the place and pummeling them with rocks, and that's more a Sage's domain I think.

 

I guess what I'm asking here is:

 

Just how much battlefield control (particularly knockdown/back) can a Sage leverage vs a Shadow? Range isn't a huge issue to me, but being able to send mobs flying is, or at least locking them down. If the Sage and Shadow are fairly close in that department, I'll lean Shadow, but if the Sage is head and shoulders above the Shadow I may just go with it instead.

[Gelgaroth]

The only thing sage has over shadow is that force lift lasts 60 secs for sage, and only 8 for shadows. However, shadows get their own 60 sec cc, but it doesn't work on droids. As far as knockback/knockdown, both make use of force wave but from what I've seen playing shadow tank, shadow tank gets a lot more use out of project than sages. We shadow tanks get a proc that makes our next project crit, which if spec'd into it, will activate our melee crit buff, giving us 9% extra melee crit chance, which helps our dps out a fair bit. I myself run a slightly unorthodox crit tank. Not much into surge rating, but I focus on defense rating, crit rating and absorb rating myself. and at higher affection levels, tharan's dialogue gets a lot better, and at 35+ he uses holiday as an aoe sleep. I'd say stun, but it breaks on damage like sleep effects from most mmos and rpgs (final fantasy anyone?). Also force wave helps out shadow tank's mob control as well, it lets us bunch em into tighter groups where our aoes have better chance of affecting them. and seemingly, I have better survivability as shadow over sage. But I also don't have an extreme amount of experience with sage either. XD

[Virshilas]

I'm a Sage (Seer/healing) and have a few problems:

- I can't withstand a lot of damage

- I don't deal a lot of damage

- So, I rely on Qyzen; he takes the damage, and I heal him. If he dies, I'll probably die too.

- I can't defeat >1 strong enemy at once. I must use Force Lift -- Qyzen has a VERY annoying habit of disturbing this, getting us killed.

- Qyzen has my back, but his culture is barbaric.

- I can't use other companions - they're healers/ranged (I'm a healer/ranged!) -- Nadia Grell has light armour, so can't take the damage for me.

-'Sage' is an unimaginative title.

- Lightsaber is USELESS.

- A lot of powers, including heals, are pointless - deal less damage/heal less/long cooldown. Seriously, what is the point of them?!

- I don't feel like a powerful Jedi!!

 

I like Force Earthquake; it attacks multiple enemies, knocking them down. It's fantastic for killing lots of weak enemies quickly. But it ONLY knocks down weak enemies. Force Wave interrupts attacks, and heals a little, but deals little damage and doesn't keep enemies knocked down.

 

I've never tried the Telekinetics skill tree, or even Shadow, so I guess I can't really answer your question, sorry. I'm also new, so probably don't know what I'm talking about.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Virshilas

[Master-Nala]

For what you're looking for, I would go with the Shadow. Shadows get Force Wave like Sages but they also get Spinning Kick which is a KD coming out of stealth (tanks can use outside stealth stealth).

[Gelgaroth]

@Virshilas

 

If you use the ~ key to open your companion's skill bar into a full length skill bar, you can right click skills to toggle them on/off, os you can stop qyzen from using his aoe if you desire. Might help you. And as for your survivability, in tougher fights, make sure you force armor yourself, and if you branch into the telekinetics tree a bit, tier 2 I think, you can make it absorb a bit more damage. Also in tier 2 of one of the trees is a talent that makes your force lift affect 2 additional nearby targets. Just some ideas that may help you. Also, if you get a set of fully moddable gear, put resolve mods in it, to get higher willpower than endurance to boost heals/damage, and then focus on power, crit, surge. Or, if you want more survivability but still decent willpower stat, use force wielder armorings/hilt/mods.

[Virshilas]

Thank you for help - very kind!

[Bodaxinho]

@Virshilas

 

I must say i've been having a widely different experience with my Sage, more of a breeze actually.

 

The tip the previous poster gave on disabling the AoE grenade attack from Qyzen is a must on fights that require the use of lift. Other than that pre-shield urself and ur comp, lift the strongest mob, send in Qyzen and assist on his target whilst the shield holds, refresh shield use a stun if needed, drop a heal if needed and resume assisting on Qyzen target.

 

When ur not using lift activate his aoe grenade for it does decent dmg and keeps mobs on him.

 

In terms of spec i've started with (0/7/2) before starting to put points in the healing tree and for leveling and the initial FPs seems fine.

 

In my experience (lvl25 on Nar Shaddaa atm, did all Taris missions) Champion mobs go down fairly easy and grps of up to 2 elite and 2 strong are doable. I try to keep all slots fairly up to date and give Qyzen a mod weapon and keep it up to date so that his dps keeps up.

 

So far Doing 2+ Hcs using solely my comp is not difficult and only LFG for the 4+ missions. Of course if u have a grp for 2+ missions it wil go faster.

 

Edit: typos

Edited July 16, 2013 by Bodaxinho

[Kagetori]

I'm a Sage (Seer/healing) and have a few problems:

- I can't withstand a lot of damage

- I don't deal a lot of damage

- So, I rely on Qyzen; he takes the damage, and I heal him. If he dies, I'll probably die too.

- I can't defeat >1 strong enemy at once. I must use Force Lift -- Qyzen has a VERY annoying habit of disturbing this, getting us killed.

- Qyzen has my back, but his culture is barbaric.

- I can't use other companions - they're healers/ranged (I'm a healer/ranged!) -- Nadia Grell has light armour, so can't take the damage for me.

-'Sage' is an unimaginative title.

- Lightsaber is USELESS.

- A lot of powers, including heals, are pointless - deal less damage/heal less/long cooldown. Seriously, what is the point of them?!

- I don't feel like a powerful Jedi!!

 

I like Force Earthquake; it attacks multiple enemies, knocking them down. It's fantastic for killing lots of weak enemies quickly. But it ONLY knocks down weak enemies. Force Wave interrupts attacks, and heals a little, but deals little damage and doesn't keep enemies knocked down.

 

I've never tried the Telekinetics skill tree, or even Shadow, so I guess I can't really answer your question, sorry. I'm also new, so probably don't know what I'm talking about.

 

My sage is my main and I enjoy it. She is full teleknetics dps, and crush enemies. I use Lt Iresso as my companion because he can dps from range and is a tank as well. Try using him instead of Qyzen. I found him to be more efficient than Qyzen. He has the same abilities as Qyzen but is a Trooper Vanguard. Learn to use your abilities to your advantage and you will be a top dps'er. trust me cause I am. And most groups/ops will like a range dps than melee. It helps the healer quite a bit.

 

Honestly as a sage, you can dps and heal. Thats what I like about it. As for companions, you have a more diverse selection than shadow. I switch and mix up my companion usage.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I agree with most of what Virshilas wrote - from a role-playing perspective.

But also from a fighting perspective. Light Armor ? I have to rely on a barbaric Tank ? Uh.

 

The "Sage" is actually a non-combat class twisted into being a combat class, so to say. It should never be. A Sage is rather a "bookworm" - and that's how I *originally* wanted to play him - that was, until I found out that SWTOR is a mere hack & slay with no real role-playing content at all.

 

I just can't play a "Consular" after what the word "Consular" suggests. I just can't. I'm forced into playing a hack & slay Action-RPG figure. And that's just "gah !".

 

I just can't play a bookworm in this game. No real "Sage" as the profession-word "Sage" implies.

Edited July 21, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[Vaerah]

I agree with most of what Virshilas wrote - from a role-playing perspective.

But also from a fighting perspective. Light Armor ? I have to rely on a barbaric Tank ? Uh.

 

The "Sage" is actually a non-combat class twisted into being a combat class, so to say. It should never be. A Sage is rather a "bookworm" - and that's how I *originally* wanted to play him - that was, until I found out that SWTOR is a mere hack & slay with no real role-playing content at all.

 

I just can't play a "Consular" after what the word "Consular" suggests. I just can't. I'm forced into playing a hack & slay Action-RPG figure. And that's just "gah !".

 

I just can't play a bookworm in this game. No real "Sage" as the profession-word "Sage" implies.

 

Not to burst your RP bubble, but in the SW IP the "consular" characters do have fighting.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I'm actually glad I have my TDE fantasy pen & paper group running besides of all this, too.

 

There, I can play an Half-Elf who does not much fighting at all. In fact, he is rather kind of a trader who happened to travel with the group.

 

And, beside, do "Consulars" do all the fighting in RL, too ?

What I mean with this sentence is this : Why choose a word for something which originally means something completely different ? Why did they name a fighting class "consular" in the first place ? To me, that's just bad design (and looking at this, I'm actually glad that I never began playing the WOTCStar Wars pen & paper RPG ... If they are so bad in this language aspect of designing a whole pen & paper RPG system, then how bad must they be with the whole system ß When they don't even care about these fine little details ?

Edited July 22, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[Kydran]

Sage

 

Telekinetic DPS.....

 

Instant blast waves for hammering groups at a time (immobilize and slow as well), throwing multiple boulders, force shields that stun everything around you when they fall.

 

I can round up 10+ weak mobs and dispose of them within a couple casts. Most of the time anything I target is dead before Qyzon has a chance to even settle up with his "scorekeeper". I rarely have to lift anything unless there are a couple strong mobs coming with a champion.

 

I wanted to play a true "wielder of the force" role...and sage was where it was at. If you want battlefield control, that would be my suggestion.

[Vikhr]

Hello. Can you give me an advice, which Shadow's skill tree are besl for solo leveling up?

[Righness]

My sage is my main and I enjoy it. She is full teleknetics dps, and crush enemies. I use Lt Iresso as my companion because he can dps from range and is a tank as well. Try using him instead of Qyzen. I found him to be more efficient than Qyzen. He has the same abilities as Qyzen but is a Trooper Vanguard. Learn to use your abilities to your advantage and you will be a top dps'er. trust me cause I am. And most groups/ops will like a range dps than melee. It helps the healer quite a bit.

 

Honestly as a sage, you can dps and heal. Thats what I like about it. As for companions, you have a more diverse selection than shadow. I switch and mix up my companion usage.

 

I am still working on figuring out Lt Iresso but Qyzen has worked out fine for me thus far. Either way, thanks for the tips from you and others here on Tele as I really liked the powers but still working on how to use him properly. I was using a Seer for a while with Qyzen and I would just take turns healing and dmging them as Qyzens health determined. The main thing I noticed is, as all would guess, Tele gave me far less need for constantly healing Qyzen as the fights were that much shorter.

 

I am pretty sure my gearing needs to be better for Lt Iresso and I just got Nadia so I will play with her too to see which one fits my playstyle the best. Thanks again for the tips all!!

[Righness]

Hello. Can you give me an advice, which Shadow's skill tree are besl for solo leveling up?

 

I don't have my shadow anymore but when I played him before I used the Kinetic Combat tree i.e. defense and it worked out pretty well. Infiltration is good for more dps, you really just have to decide which playstyle you prefer. Memory says those are the way to go, not the Balance tree for soloing. Having Qyzen at first might be better to use more dps but either is viable. All up to you.

[slafko]

Hello. Can you give me an advice, which Shadow's skill tree are besl for solo leveling up?

 

My personal preference is Defense.

 

It will start to kick in a bit later because you don't have tanking gear from the start but will grow more and more powerful. Some argue that dps build + Tharan are best way because you kill things faster but shadow tanks have great damage dealing potential while being able to withstand a lot of punishment. Tank + Tharan combo works great but once you finally get Nadia, use her. She can put your dps set to good use and is a great damage dealer. Been running all sorts of dailies with her since I can remember. <3

[DarthLeeloo]

I'm recently back from a lengthy break from the game and started playing my level 50 shadow again (now 52). Previously I had the kinetic combat spec, but since his points were reset I figured I'd give infiltration a go. So far I'm not really feeling it. The damage doesn't seem significantly better, and I'm missing the survivability the tank spec had. I'm gonna stick with it a little while longer. Perhaps I need to get better accustomed to it. I've started considering going back to kinetic though.

[ZioGio]

In the past, I couldn't level either a Sage or Shadow because I just didn't like the first two Jedi Consular companions. Now that I have Treek, who I find far less annoying than the other companions, I really enjoy leveling my Jedi Shadow (currently level 26, Kinetic tree, PvE).

 

To me, the Jedi Shadow is the complete Jedi character. The Jedi Shadow incorporates diverse force powers with their lightsaber skills. Standing in the middle of a group, I can cut and sweep while also using the force to throw objects at my enemies, blast them away from me, and debuff them. Not to mention that stealth allows me to explore without always having to hack my way to the objective.

 

To me, Guardians/Sentinels feel like they're all stick and Sages feel like they're all force. Jedi Shadow is a fun combination of the two.