Spreadsheet Sniper 2.0+ for gear optimazition

[Sindariel]

Quick question...

 

"wasnt there only 437 accuracy required to get 100% ? what is the reasoning behind 470 ? only that u need a certain amount of acc enhancements and u will be undercaped if u remove 1 ? since there is 79 accuracy on an enhancement.. you would be really close to 100.. a little undercaped"

 

-nanok

 

470 accuracy is in Oriconian / Dread Forged gear

78 rating enhancements give you 94 accuracy per piece. With 4 acc enhancements, you end up with 376 accuracy, which puts you to 99,27%.

So, you either have to sacrifice DPS by taking another acc enhancements, acc augments or by missing a lot.

Most people prefer the safe way by taking an additional acc enhancement.

 

Edit:

In Underworld gear though, 395 accuracy (5 enhancements) are the best DPS tradeoff for all classes.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Sindariel

[paowee]

Thanks!

[IsapientiaI]

i found something odd in your spreadsheet

i wanted to know wether the additional OS-tick or getting more cunning is better

you calculate tooltip-dmg (2pc pvp or not, tooltip states the same and your calcs for it should be fine)

then you apply a multiplier to account for crit-chance, crit-multi and precision and call it average dmg (fine if no 2pc pvp is used, else it would be tooltip-dmg*multiplier*(4/3) because tooltip damage states the dmg for 3 ticks but you get 4 ticks)

now it get's weird:

Ability´s total inflicted damage is average dmg/4*number of hits (if no 2pc pvp is used it would have to be average dmg/3*number of hits, else it would be fine if you used to *4/3 on the average damage)

Ability´s total cast time divides by 4 to account for 4 ticks per cast (hinting at using 2pc pvp)

 

it's rather unimportant but i would like to know if i was to dumb to understand your formula or if you made a little misstake

as a side note: i use the german client in which tooltip-dmg doesn't get adjusted to account for additional dot-ticks

[Lightzzoutt]

SO should I be using cunning or power augments?

[X-Boson]

SO should I be using cunning or power augments?

Cunning is always better than power. You have to count 1.14cunning vs 1power because of skillpoints and buff (9%+5%=14%).

 

i found something odd in your spreadsheet

i wanted to know wether the additional OS-tick or getting more cunning is better

you calculate tooltip-dmg (2pc pvp or not, tooltip states the same and your calcs for it should be fine)

then you apply a multiplier to account for crit-chance, crit-multi and precision and call it average dmg (fine if no 2pc pvp is used, else it would be tooltip-dmg*multiplier*(4/3) because tooltip damage states the dmg for 3 ticks but you get 4 ticks)

now it get's weird:

Ability´s total inflicted damage is average dmg/4*number of hits (if no 2pc pvp is used it would have to be average dmg/3*number of hits, else it would be fine if you used to *4/3 on the average damage)

Ability´s total cast time divides by 4 to account for 4 ticks per cast (hinting at using 2pc pvp)

 

it's rather unimportant but i would like to know if i was to dumb to understand your formula or if you made a little misstake

as a side note: i use the german client in which tooltip-dmg doesn't get adjusted to account for additional dot-ticks

 

Thy for report, nice work. Indeed you right about that. If u have 2 pvp set, OS´s dmg wont be updated, but only its duration. Its just like 2/2 points for C.Dart I once discovered. Now about +100DPS for all specs. Thats a lot, but dont forget they are based on dummy log(Ofc optimization can be done for a real boss fight as well, compare log dmg with expected dmg in this case). Therefore I had to do some small adjustments on gear optimazition at this point.

 

The gear optimizing posted before:

 

 

---------------------MM----------------------

 

Build

 

Cunning 3770

Power 1606

Aim 155

Accuracy Rating 470

Surge Rating 282

Crit rating 69

Alacrity rating 188

max main-hand basic weapon dmg 863

max off-hand basic weapon dmg 575

 

 

 

---------------------Engineering----------------------

 

Build

Cunning 3770

Power 1606

Aim 155

Accuracy Rating 470

Surge Rating 282

Crit rating 69

Alacrity rating 188

max main-hand basic weapon dmg 863

max off-hand basic weapon dmg 575

 

 

 

------------------------Hybrid----------------------------

 

Build

Cunning 3770

Power 1675

Aim 155

Accuracy Rating 376

Surge Rating 470

Crit rating 0

Alacrity rating 94

max main-hand basic weapon dmg 863

max off-hand basic weapon dmg 575

 

 

 

---------------------Lethality----------------------

 

Build

Cunning 3770

Power 1675

Aim 155

Accuracy Rating 470

Surge Rating 376

Crit rating 0

Alacrity rating 94

max main-hand basic weapon dmg 863

max off-hand basic weapon dmg 575

 

Keyword is 470 Accuracy Rating (apply to Vanguard/PT as well), u can drop alacrity rating for surge as discussed before. Notice Relics and adrenal were not included, but sniper´s off cd. Compare to UW gear u now should have about 10% more DPS.

 

 

...and updated:

 

---------------------MM----------------------

 

Build

 

Cunning 3770

Power 1537

Aim 155

Accuracy Rating 376

Surge Rating 376

Crit rating 138

Alacrity rating 188

max main-hand basic weapon dmg 863

max off-hand basic weapon dmg 575

 

 

 

---------------------Engineering----------------------

 

Build

Cunning 3770

Power 1606

Aim 155

Accuracy Rating 376

Surge Rating 282

Crit rating 69

Alacrity rating 282

max main-hand basic weapon dmg 863

max off-hand basic weapon dmg 575

 

 

 

------------------------Hybrid----------------------------

 

Build

Cunning 3770

Power 1675

Aim 155

Accuracy Rating 470

Surge Rating 376

Crit rating 0

Alacrity rating 94

max main-hand basic weapon dmg 863

max off-hand basic weapon dmg 575

 

 

 

---------------------Lethality----------------------

 

Build

Cunning 3770

Power 1675

Aim 155

Accuracy Rating 470

Surge Rating 470

Crit rating 0

Alacrity rating 0

max main-hand basic weapon dmg 863

max off-hand basic weapon dmg 575

 

 

These are copy-paste numbers from spreadsheet using "blue" stims. Bonus power on relic is alrdy considered, but not relic´s proc/buff. Now in MM and Eng only 376 Accuracy Rating instead of 470. Probably dmg from tech ability has become stronger after update of OS. Anyway as a precaution 470 accuracy can still be recommended. For example if someone wants to replace all alacrity mods, always 470 accuracy first.

 

 

 

 

 

 

PS: Im not sure if the data used in spreadsheet had PvP set. But it seems to be, because OS´s number of hits is divisible by 4(12s) but not by 3(9s).

 

I think at least the first 2 logs were from Paowee.

 

Total cunning loss (+14% skill&buff considered) using 2 PvP armors:

 

DF vs Obroan -75

DF vs Conq -84

Edited October 28, 2013 by X-Boson

[GmstrOne]

Cunning is always better than power. You have to count 1.14cunning vs 1power because of skillpoints and buff (9%+5%=14%).

 

 

 

im pretty sure power > main stat even with the % buff. if you look at the bonus damage, main stat only adds .2 to bonus damage with a slight increase in crit where as power adds .23 to power.

[Torgru]

im pretty sure power > main stat even with the % buff. if you look at the bonus damage, main stat only adds .2 to bonus damage with a slight increase in crit where as power adds .23 to power.

 

You're absolutely correct! But, we count 1 cunning as 1.14 cunning instead. So, .2 * 1.14 = .228. In other words, power will provide .002 more bonus damage per point than cunning. To put that in perspective, if you get 500 cunning, you will have 114 bonus damage. If you get 500 power, you will have 115. Doesn't seem like an actual increase any more, does it? Especially when, as you said, you get an increase in crit from cunning.

[GmstrOne]

You're absolutely correct! But, we count 1 cunning as 1.14 cunning instead. So, .2 * 1.14 = .228. In other words, power will provide .002 more bonus damage per point than cunning. To put that in perspective, if you get 500 cunning, you will have 114 bonus damage. If you get 500 power, you will have 115. Doesn't seem like an actual increase any more, does it? Especially when, as you said, you get an increase in crit from cunning.

 

welll when i divide my added bonus from cunning which for me is 658.8/3295 i still get .2 and not .228 with or without the buff the number is the same. .2

 

the buffs and skills in the tree dont increase the value of cunning but rather the amount of it by a certain % which happens to be 14. so your getting 14% more cunning but the base value of it is still .2 compared to .23 for power.

Edited October 28, 2013 by GmstrOne

[X-Boson]

welll when i divide my added bonus from cunning which for me is 658.8/3295 i still get .2 and not .228 with or without the buff the number is the same. .2

 

the buffs and skills in the tree dont increase the value of cunning but rather the amount of it by a certain % which happens to be 14. so your getting 14% more cunning but the base value of it is still .2 compared to .23 for power.

 

I think u misinterpreted something. but np, lets go through it.

 

First, ratio 658.8/3295 = 0.2 is simply a constant factor. That is, you wont reach 3295 cunning and therefore 658.8 bonus dmg without +14% buff&skill.

 

Second, the concept of bonus dmg is basically superfluous or even useless for DPS calcutation. All u want to know is how can stats like power, cunning ect increase your DPS. And your DPS is not a function of bonus dmg, but different abilities used in your rotation which depend on stats. There is simply no explicit correlation between "bonus dmg" and DPS. Therefore u can not compare power with cunning in their tooltip bonus dmg, but only in their dmg increase for each ability or in resulted DPS.

Edited October 28, 2013 by X-Boson

[Torgru]

welll when i divide my added bonus from cunning which for me is 658.8/3295 i still get .2 and not .228 with or without the buff the number is the same. .2

 

the buffs and skills in the tree dont increase the value of cunning but rather the amount of it by a certain % which happens to be 14. so your getting 14% more cunning but the base value of it is still .2 compared to .23 for power.

 

A simple misunderstanding. 1 point of cunning is still worth .2 bonus damage, yes. The thing is, because you get 9% cunning from skills, and 5% cunning from the buff, 1 point of cunning is effectively worth 1.14 points of cunning. 9% + 5% = 14%. Because of 1 cunning on a peice of gear being the equivalent of 1.14 cunnng, then 1 cunning on a piece of gear is equivalent of .228 bonus damage. 1.14 * .2 = .228

Edited October 28, 2013 by Torgru

[GmstrOne]

well i understood the cunning/power thing. i guess i confused myself. but aside from that how else you would you see what gives you more damage output from one stat to another if not at the bonus damage? there is certainly a positive correlation with bonus dmg and dps

[Torgru]

well i understood the cunning/power thing. i guess i confused myself. but aside from that how else you would you see what gives you more damage output from one stat to another if not at the bonus damage? there is certainly a positive correlation with bonus dmg and dps

 

IT's a good approximation, of course. But it's just a lot more complex than that is what Boson is getting at, I believe.

[X-Boson]

Most ppl used to convert stats into bonus dmg first and then convert that into ability´s tooltip dmg or DPS by using some specific scaling factors. Mathematically its just like, for example divide a number by 3 and then immediately multiply it by 3 again , which is superfluous. As long as u dont know those specific factors, u wont be able to compare power and cunning against each other only based on bonus dmg.

 

In fact u can convert stats into DPS directly. Thats exactly what I did.

Edited October 28, 2013 by X-Boson

[Plicitous]

I've been combing through PVP logs from my Saboteur (aka Engineering) Gunslinger and it's apparent that the damage distribution is heavily tilted in favor of AoE abilities. With the 30% boost to crit damage that is inherent to the spec and the prevalence of AoE damage in warzones it seems likely that PvP BiS stats are significantly different than the PvE BiS stats. Lobbing grenades at a dummy doesn't tell us much!

 

It stands to reason that Crit % would be much more important, and I'm wondering if it's possible to determine what the target should be for those of us with little interest in PvE?

 

Also, as a PvP'er yourself, what is your opinion on Accuracy in warzones? Is 95%/105% enough? Or should we still shoot for 100%/110%?

Edited November 8, 2013 by Plicitous

[X-Boson]

I made a small update for PvP, so u can now consider 10% internal/elemental dmg reduction buff from inq/cons on your target.

 

 

 

 

I've been combing through PVP logs from my Saboteur (aka Engineering) Gunslinger and it's apparent that the damage distribution is heavily tilted in favor of AoE abilities. With the 30% boost to crit damage that is inherent to the spec and the prevalence of AoE damage in warzones it seems likely that PvP BiS stats are significantly different than the PvE BiS stats. Lobbing grenades at a dummy doesn't tell us much!

 

It stands to reason that Crit % would be much more important, and I'm wondering if it's possible to determine what the target should be for those of us with little interest in PvE?

 

Also, as a PvP'er yourself, what is your opinion on Accuracy in warzones? Is 95%/105% enough? Or should we still shoot for 100%/110%?

 

In purpose of PvP, simply update armor rating and defense chance from cell F4 to F7 and 10% internal/elmental reduction in cell F10. You surely will get a wrong DPS value because of AOE on multi-target. But optimazation will remain valid at this point. Because we count number of hits on the one hand(so the more targets u hit, the more counts u will have), and then on the other hand estimate time spent on those hits on a single target. So they are calculated independently. Only in Leth spec optimazation can be incorrect. Because for both DoTs, boost from WB is implanted. But u can only apply this boost to a single target. Also, keep in mind that many defensive CDs of your target will lower your dmg. In case u missed info about PvP defense, only Inq/cons has 10% defense on melee and ranged dodge, all other DD classes 5%.

 

According to calc, u should cap accuracy 95%/105% first, so 1 enh once u have +4% from skill&companion-buff. This should apply to all specs in PvP. Well, u dont rlly want to push 5% more only against inq/cons. But its rlly a matter of taste. Further it seems no crit mod should be used in all specs, only power. Im not sure if that will change using a real PvP log, coz we are using dummy logs in spreadsheet atm. However you could upload your PvP log into spreadsheet and check if u would have done higher dmg with another gearing.

Edited November 9, 2013 by X-Boson

[TheDuge]

I wanted to ask about current BIS gear. My main interest is PvE and the 36/3/7 build, but this question can be extended to all specs. So what about accuracy?

As I understand with the new 78 gear we have the following options:

1. Use 4 accuracy enhancements, which gives 376 accuracy rating resulting in 99,27% accuracy.

2. Use 5 accuracy enhancements, which will make our accuracy go over 100%, resulting in a "waste". (100,43%)

3. Use 4 accuracy enhancements and use one accuracy augment, which gives 408 accuracy rating, resulting in 99,67% accuracy.

4. Use 4 accuracy enhancements and use two accuracy augments, which gives 440 accuracy rating, resulting in 100,07% accuracy.

So is there a consensus on which of these options is the best? Or is this now purely a personal preference choice?

It may seem that the option number 4 is the best, but that may be tricky. Since in options 3 and 4 you trade cunning for accuracy, while in option 1 and 2 you trade alacrity or surge for accuracy. And cunning is more important.

 

Also I see a lot of mentions of having 188 alacrity. Is this the one that is only for dummy parses and is useless for real boss fights, because you can rarely do uninterrupted dps? Does alacrity have no place in a BiS gear, which is designed for real boss fights and not dummy parsing?

Edited November 18, 2013 by TheDuge

[Hardcora]

I wanted to ask about current BIS gear. My main interest is PvE and the 36/3/7 build, but this question can be extended to all specs. So what about accuracy?

As I understand with the new 78 gear we have the following options:

1. Use 4 accuracy enhancements, which gives 376 accuracy rating resulting in 99,27% accuracy.

2. Use 5 accuracy enhancements, which will make our accuracy go over 100%, resulting in a "waste". (100,43%)

3. Use 4 accuracy enhancements and use one accuracy augment, which gives 408 accuracy rating, resulting in 99,67% accuracy.

4. Use 4 accuracy enhancements and use two accuracy augments, which gives 440 accuracy rating, resulting in 100,07% accuracy.

So is there a consensus on which of these options is the best? Or is this now purely a personal preference choice?

It may seem that the option number 4 is the best, but that may be tricky. Since in options 3 and 4 you trade cunning for accuracy, while in option 1 and 2 you trade alacrity or surge for accuracy. And cunning is more important.

 

Also I see a lot of mentions of having 188 alacrity. Is this the one that is only for dummy parses and is useless for real boss fights, because you can rarely do uninterrupted dps? Does alacrity have no place in a BiS gear, which is designed for real boss fights and not dummy parsing?

 

I would go with 5 Acc enhancements because i don't want to trade 62 Cunning (from the 2 Augments) for 94 Surge. As i'm playing Leth/Eng Hybrid i need the energy restore from my crit Dots. So i decided to use 2 Crit mods and 5 Acc Enh and it works very good for me.

[X-Boson]

I think I´ve pointed out several times that accuracy augments should not be used. They are no match against pri stats augments. Probably they only usable for sent/marauder without any pri stats buff. But I honestly doubt that.

 

So 4 or 5 enhancements should be your best choice.

 

Also I see a lot of mentions of having 188 alacrity. Is this the one that is only for dummy parses and is useless for real boss fights, because you can rarely do uninterrupted dps? Does alacrity have no place in a BiS gear, which is designed for real boss fights and not dummy parsing?

 

That depends on how good u can do sustained dmg in a real fight. Simply because all the reduced cast time u gained from alacrity would be wasted, if u have to stop dps. While your DoTs or some quick "small hits" in movement still benifit from surge/accuracy well during a dynamic fight.

 

The point is that 0.04s gained from 188 alacrity for a single snipe is rlly negligible after dmg-interrupt. But not if we do like 10 sustained snipes, which means 0.4s.

Edited November 18, 2013 by X-Boson

[dipstik]

simulation craft was updated after 2.0 for sorcs only (thanks to korrig) and sosmoen found that using 1 accuracy augment was BiS using simulation craft. i have also seen 1 accuracy augment being BiS for sin dps specs (not sure about higher than 72 gear) based on Ino's spreadsheets. i do remember cunning classes not benifiting from 1 accuracy augment, but that could change with gear level.

[mongoosee]

I'm sure this question has been asked and answered many times. But I would like to get an updated information related to the BiS relics for MM sniper. What are the current BiS relics for MM Sniper? and what will be the BiS relics in 2.5?

[Hardcora]

Has somebody already simcafted the ptr changes to the relics? Will SA and FR be BIS?

 

http://dulfy.net/2013/11/17/swtor-relics-stats-adjusted-for-patch-2-5/

Edited November 26, 2013 by Hardcora

[Hardcora]

Has somebody already simcafted the ptr changes to the relics? Will SA and FR be BIS?

 

http://dulfy.net/2013/11/17/swtor-relics-stats-adjusted-for-patch-2-5/

 

Nobody? C'mon you crazy theory and simcrafters

[dipstik]

interested in picking this back up with 2.6 changes. the orbital numbers have changed, so we need to node grab those new values to plug in. if people spec into overload shot buffs, need to take that into account and see how many overload shots people are able to fit in for a best rotation.

[dipstik]

Nobody? C'mon you crazy theory and simcrafters

 

DF main stat proc and power proc are BiS unless you have self healing, where KD power proc is better than DF power proc.

[ArchangelLBC]

I wanted to ask about current BIS gear. My main interest is PvE and the 36/3/7 build, but this question can be extended to all specs. So what about accuracy?

As I understand with the new 78 gear we have the following options:

1. Use 4 accuracy enhancements, which gives 376 accuracy rating resulting in 99,27% accuracy.

2. Use 5 accuracy enhancements, which will make our accuracy go over 100%, resulting in a "waste". (100,43%)

3. Use 4 accuracy enhancements and use one accuracy augment, which gives 408 accuracy rating, resulting in 99,67% accuracy.

4. Use 4 accuracy enhancements and use two accuracy augments, which gives 440 accuracy rating, resulting in 100,07% accuracy.

So is there a consensus on which of these options is the best? Or is this now purely a personal preference choice?

It may seem that the option number 4 is the best, but that may be tricky. Since in options 3 and 4 you trade cunning for accuracy, while in option 1 and 2 you trade alacrity or surge for accuracy. And cunning is more important.

 

Also I see a lot of mentions of having 188 alacrity. Is this the one that is only for dummy parses and is useless for real boss fights, because you can rarely do uninterrupted dps? Does alacrity have no place in a BiS gear, which is designed for real boss fights and not dummy parsing?

 

I wonder if the same BiS will be true for both GS and Snipers. GS still gets a benefit from the extra accuracy because of offhand hits. I know this is the sniper forum. Just saying =)