Petition to make the ewok not buy able by cc

[Andryah]

Error on (1)

 

The Ewok is designed and intended to be a cash grab. By inflating the Legacy Level requirement it all-but-forces most casual players into spending CCs; by having a large credit cost it also adds to this same push to spend CCs.

 

Incorrect, because they are being consistent in offering different players different pathways to fluff and vanity items.

 

Incorrect.. because a majority of veterans can acquire Treek either way.

 

Whereas if you need legacy 40 but are a newer player to the game.. the veterans want to freeze you out and deny you access to Treek.

 

It's sad to me that game veterans think it's OK to petition to deny newer players access to vanity content. Especially when this particular vanity content (a companion) could be enjoyed by new players while still doing character leveling, whereas many veterans don't even use companions much.. and just want a bragging right or a "feel good" cookie for their Legacy level.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Andryah

[Ratajack]

1) The Ewok is designed and intended for everyone.

 

2) If you want something "nice" for being so "special"... how about ask for it rather then operate on the principle of denying, something intended for everyone, to others??

 

And whatever happened to "satisfaction" being it's own reward?

 

That's the beauty of it. EVERYONE can get the Ewok even if BW does not cave to the "have to have it now" crowd and allow the legacy 40 requirement to be bypassed. Some may not be able to have it now, but EVERYONE can get it if they <GASP> put out a little effort instead of throwing money around.

[KimbeFett]

Incorrect, because they are being consistent in offering different players different pathways to fluff and vanity items.

 

Incorrect.. because a majority of veterans can acquire Treek either way.

 

Whereas if you need legacy 40 but are a newer player to the game.. the veterans want to freeze you out and deny you access to Treek.

 

It's sad to me that game veterans think it's OK to petition to deny newer players access to vanity content. Especially when this particular vanity content (a companion) could be enjoyed by new players while still doing character leveling, whereas many veterans don't even use companions much.. and just want a bragging right or a "feel good" cookie for their Legacy level.

 

I feel like you aren't really arguing against my post so I am curious why you quoted me; The majority of your argument is against the thread not my reply to the thread.

 

Regardless the truth is there; it is a Cash Grab, you can't argue that. I don't care how people get access to the content but don't call it something it isn't. Giving the Legacy Level 40 players an option to get it with credits is being nice to the veterans; it is saying, Thank you for playing for so long, you don't have to pay, but be sure you show it off so that others will

 

Advertisement is a huge part of any Cash Grab; Veterans, you are our advertisers! Be the Sith Lord with the Cuddly Teddy Bear!

[Andryah]

Regardless the truth is there; it is a Cash Grab, you can't argue that.

 

Do you understand how to make a cash grab? In the real world.. where people who don't want to spend money are teased out of their money anyway? Here's the recipe:

 

1) make something everyone just has GOT TO HAVE

2) make is so the only way to get said item is to have to pay cash to get it.

 

Sorry KF... this is not a cash crab. It's "cash-optional_to_acquire"... like all perks in the Legacy system. Most players will probably purchase Treek with in game credits.. as that is the more economical approach for most players. Even for newer players.. they can wait until they hit Legacy 40 and buy with credits, or they can acquire earlier with coins.. AND.. in their case.. it's still not a cash grab because they can use the free coins that come with being a subscriber.

 

Personally, I feel you are hiding your true feelings behind the term "cash grab". Your real issue is with the CM is it not?

Edited July 4, 2013 by Andryah

[Ratajack]

Do you understand how to make a cash grab? In the real world.. where people who don't want to spend money are teased out of their money anyway? Here's the recipe:

 

1) make something everyone just has GOT TO HAVE

2) make is so the only way to get said item is to have to pay cash to get it.

 

Sorry KF... this is not a cash crab. It's "cash-optional_to_acquire"... like all perks in the Legacy system. Most players will probably purchase Treek with in game credits.. as that is the more economical approach for most players. Even for newer players.. they can wait until they hit Legacy 40 and buy with credits, or they can acquire earlier with coins.. AND.. in their case.. it's still not a cash grab because they can use the free coins that come with being a subscriber.

 

Personally, I feel you are hiding your true feelings behind the term "cash grab". Your real issue is with the CM is it not?

 

Allowing players to bypass the legacy 40 requirement for this new companion by using CC's is nothing but a cash grab and caving to the "have to have it now" crowd. By your own words " Even for newer players.. they can wait until they hit Legacy 40 and buy with credits", so NO ONE is being denied anything if they still required legacy 40. Some might just have to wait for that new shiny.

[KimbeFett]

Do you understand how to make a cash grab? In the real world.. where people who don't want to spend money are teased out of their money anyway? Here's the recipe:

 

1) make something everyone just has GOT TO HAVE

2) make is so the only way to get said item is to have to pay cash to get it.

 

Sorry KF... this is not a cash crab. It's "cash-optional_to_acquire"... like all perks in the Legacy system. Most players will probably purchase Treek with in game credits.. as that is the more economical approach for most players. Even for newer players.. they can wait until they hit Legacy 40 and buy with credits, or they can acquire earlier with coins.. AND.. in their case.. it's still not a cash grab because they can use the free coins that come with being a subscriber.

 

Personally, I feel you are hiding your true feelings behind the term "cash grab". Your real issue is with the CM is it not?

Who is the companion designed for?

 

The guy with 8 level 55s; Legacy level 50; never leaves the fleet except for operations, flashpoints and warzones; doesn't need a companion or ...

 

The new guy; doesn't have a healing companion yet, maybe thinks Ewok's are cute?

 

The guy with 8 level 55s getting the companion for Credits simply takes some credits out of the game, credits he may have spent on other CM items on the GTN (maybe forcing him to buy more CM items?) He gets the companion; he walks around the fleet because at 55 that is whatcha do.

 

The new guy sees the Ewok; says wow thats neat, how can I get it now --> BW just Grabbed his Cash!

 

Another important thing to note about the free CCs with your subscription is the idea of Accrued Liability. Now granted it isn't quite the same but conceptually there are some similarities. The basic premise is that when a company gives you Vacation Days, the longer you hold them the worse it is for the company because those days are still on the books; they still owe you those days. Think of the free CC credits similarly. These are outstanding units of money which allow the player to not spend their own money on CM items. They want you to spend those; they definitely don't want you to accrue a large amount of them (and therefore never need to insert your Personal CreditCard for more CartelCoins)

 

Finally I don't think I have ever hid my opinion of the CM; search my posts, I have from day 1 said it is a bad thing

[Andryah]

The new guy; doesn't have a healing companion yet, maybe thinks Ewok's are cute?

 

This person, if they want Treek as an early companion will most likely spend those free coins that come with the subscription to get Treek. Unless of course.. unlike you... they don't see the CM as a bad thing. In which case, they have more options to enjoy the game they way they want to play it then you do.

 

It's cash optional. There are multiple ways for subscribers to aquire things like Treek, even with little or no time delay without sending Bioware any incremental cash for the priviledge.

 

In closing.. it's cash optional. You have the option to acquire by purchasing cartel coins, if you like. But there are ample ways to avoid that entirely.

[kirorx]

Allowing players to bypass the legacy 40 requirement for this new companion by using CC's is nothing but a cash grab and caving to the "have to have it now" crowd. By your own words " Even for newer players.. they can wait until they hit Legacy 40 and buy with credits", so NO ONE is being denied anything if they still required legacy 40. Some might just have to wait for that new shiny.

 

While I too would like too see some more legacy related unlocks and/or items, we can't really call it bypassing the legacy requirement since this item has not really been released

 

Had Treek come out a month ago and they decided to change it to a buyable option from

CM that would a much different story

 

In this case this is just a new CM unlock with a credit option

 

On the plus side people will probably be able to buy the unlock and sell it on the GTN for less than the million required credits. Kinda like the species unlocks we see

 

Just change your perspective, had this came out on CM with no legacy or credit requirement, this would not even be a conversation and people would just buy it when it came out

[Andryah]

Another important thing to note about the free CCs with your subscription is the idea of Accrued Liability. Now granted it isn't quite the same but conceptually there are some similarities. The basic premise is that when a company gives you Vacation Days, the longer you hold them the worse it is for the company because those days are still on the books; they still owe you those days. Think of the free CC credits similarly.

 

Let's address this one separately since it's completely off topic....

 

There is no financial liability in free cartel coins as they provide no actual real tangible worth and therefore no deferred liability. Unlike vacation days accured.. which are a deferred liability of payment of real dollars to an employee.. cartel coins are simply free coupons to obtain non-real non-tangible content in a virtual world. Further, neither the coins, nor the content in the CM are inventory so that also is not a liability from an accounting and financial reporting standpoint.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Andryah

[Andryah]

While I too would like too see some more legacy related unlocks and/or items, we can't really call it bypassing the legacy requirement since this item has not really been released

 

Had Treek come out a month ago and they decided to change it to a buyable option from

CM that would a much different story

 

In this case this is just a new CM unlock with a credit option

 

On the plus side people will probably be able to buy the unlock and sell it on the GTN for less than the million required credits. Kinda like the species unlocks we see

 

Just change your perspective, had this came out on CM with no legacy or credit requirement, this would not even be a conversation and people would just buy it when it came out

 

/Agree.

[Ratajack]

While I too would like too see some more legacy related unlocks and/or items, we can't really call it bypassing the legacy requirement since this item has not really been released

 

Had Treek come out a month ago and they decided to change it to a buyable option from

CM that would a much different story

 

In this case this is just a new CM unlock with a credit option

 

On the plus side people will probably be able to buy the unlock and sell it on the GTN for less than the million required credits. Kinda like the species unlocks we see

 

Just change your perspective, had this came out on CM with no legacy or credit requirement, this would not even be a conversation and people would just buy it when it came out

 

 

On the PTS can you pay ANY amount of credits to purchase Treek without having legacy 40? NO. That would make legacy 40 a requirement. Do you expect that once it goes live that players will be able to spend that million credits to purchase Treek without legacy 40? That would make legacy 40 a requirement if a player cannot purchase her for credits without legacy 40.

 

BW could have chosen not to put this companion on the PTS and gated her behind a legacy requirement. They could have announced the new CM item, and advertised it all they wanted and made it clear from the start that it was a CM item.

 

Instead, they chose to put it in the PTS and gate it behind a high legacy requirement. Then, after all the whining on the forums from the "have to have it now" crowd, we get a statement that it will be available in the CM for CC's.

 

So, let's put this in order:

 

1) New companion is placed on PTS gated behind legacy requirement.

2) "Have to have it now" crowd complains and petitions to buy for CC's

3) BW announces new companion to be available on CM for CC's

 

The end result is that the "have to have it now" crowd can simply throw money at BW and bypass the legacy requirement.

[chuuuuucky]

Incorrect, because they are being consistent in offering different players different pathways to fluff and vanity items.

 

Incorrect.. because a majority of veterans can acquire Treek either way.

 

Whereas if you need legacy 40 but are a newer player to the game.. the veterans want to freeze you out and deny you access to Treek.

 

It's sad to me that game veterans think it's OK to petition to deny newer players access to vanity content. Especially when this particular vanity content (a companion) could be enjoyed by new players while still doing character leveling, whereas many veterans don't even use companions much.. and just want a bragging right or a "feel good" cookie for their Legacy level.

 

Noone wants to deny vanity items to new players. They can have the items if they have the right legacy level. Don't see a problem with that. Where is the problem with legacy 40? We need something for higher legacy levels in the future and something that is really worth it so newer people can look foreward to it.

For us veterans it is already to late.

If we give out everything with such a low barrier that everybody can have everything instant this will sooner or later lead to another drop of subscribers because of pure boredom.

There are already players that moan because they have to make another 4 legacy level to 40 even that is a joke and can be done in a few weeks they complain. Really?

The end result is that the "have to have it now" crowd can simply throw money at BW and bypass the legacy requirement

 

Is there already a statement that they will drop the legacy level if you buy it with CC?

Edited July 4, 2013 by chuuuuucky

[KimbeFett]

Let's address this one separately since it's completely off topic....

 

There is no financial liability in free cartel coins as they provide no actual real tangible worth and therefore no deferred liability. Unlike vacation days accured.. which are a deferred liability of payment of real dollars to an employee.. cartel coins are simply free coupons to obtain non-real non-tangible content in a virtual world. Further, neither the coins, nor the content in the CM are inventory so that also is not a liability from an accounting and financial reporting standpoint.

 

I like how you like to cut off part of the quote;

 

The point is you need to spend the free ones before you will bother buying new ones. This is their goal and don't forget it. When they project revenues from the game which is heavily based on CM purchases they will estimate that each player will spend X dollars a month (or year) in CM purchases. For subscribers they have to remove the free cartel coins from this estimate (however they also get to add in the subscription cost to the revenue)

 

If someone accrues the free CCs for 6 months they will have this accrued amount to use instead of spending their own money; I am sure this has to be somehow factored in.

 

The goal of the development team is to ensure that those X dollars are spent each month; that is why we get Fluff items for the CM rather than Quality Content

Edited July 4, 2013 by KimbeFett

[Andryah]

When they project revenues from the game which is heavily based on CM purchases they will estimate that each player will spend X dollars a month (or year) in CM purchases.

 

Actually, it's more fundamental then this.

 

They project average revenue per active user per month as the revenue projection metric in Freemium MMOs. There is even an industry acronym for it: ARPU

 

It does not matter in the end exactly what method the dollars are extracted. In fact.. in a freemium model of business, you expect and diversify the methods so that you are immune to any particular holdback or shortcoming in projections.

 

As for needing to flush free coins from the system to make way for coin purchases... that's essentially been proven to be a non issue in the genre for some time now. Again.. the business model is proliferating in the industry and the methods to flush the "free currency" out of the system is matured almost to a level of science now. They even have a specialty for this now.. it's called "monetization design". And it's not bad, and it's not evil... It's just that you and some others think it is and want the rest of us to buy in to your belief system.

 

The CM part of the business gives players more degrees of choice and freedom in how they pursue the game for their personal fun and enjoyment. It remains sad to me to see players such as yourself try to prosecute your dislike for the CM upon newer players in the game. The CM is particularly good for newer players in MMOs.. and less so for veterans. So it serves the freshest and most energetic component of the player base and does in a manner designed to give them personal choices and options. It's an expanding business model in the genre for a reason.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Andryah

[Andryah]

Is there already a statement that they will drop the legacy level if you buy it with CC?

 

Since November 2012, all legacy perks can be acquired through CCs OR Legacy+Credits. In every case, if purchased with CCs.. there is no legacy level requirement.

[Ratajack]

Since November 2012, all legacy perks can be acquired through CCs OR Legacy+Credits. In every case, if purchased with CCs.. there is no legacy level requirement.

 

This means that you can throw money at BW and BYPASS those pesky legacy requirements if you "have to have it now", or if you don't want to put forth the effort to <GASP> earn it.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Ratajack

[KimbeFett]

The CM part of the business gives players more degrees of choice and freedom in how they pursue the game for their personal fun and enjoyment. It remains sad to me to see players such as yourself try to prosecute your dislike for the CM upon newer players in the game. The CM is particularly good for newer players in MMOs.. and less so for veterans. So it serves the freshest and most energetic component of the player base and does in a manner designed to give them personal choices and options. It's an expanding business model in the genre for a reason.

The issue is when the main driving factor for revenue is purchasing from the CM that is where you will tend to spend your best resources.

 

This shouldn't be hard to understand, companies care about the bottom line; how can they best invest their money to get the greatest amount of money back.

 

If the main revenue stream comes from the CM you put your best and brightest on developing this content.

 

But what is this content? What is it adding to the game? Another skin for your character to run around in? What happens when you run out of places to run around?

 

MMOs are treadmills; Freemium games give you short cuts and ways to look cool during your run.

 

SWTORs class quests are not treadmills. They are in-depth engaging fun content.

 

Content that unfortunately I doubt we will see more of from a game whose revenue stream comes from the CM

[KimbeFett]

It remains sad to me to see players such as yourself try to prosecute your dislike for the CM upon newer players in the game.

 

I don't understand what you mean by this; I haven't really said I don't want the Ewok to be on the CM; I think that is where it belongs.

 

I just want new class content rather than a Teddy Bear following me around.

 

But a CM driven Revenue Stream points the developers to the Teddy Bear rather than the Engaging Content. Unless the Engaging content can have a price tag.

Edited July 4, 2013 by KimbeFett

[Andryah]

The issue is when the main driving factor for revenue is purchasing from the CM that is where you will tend to spend your best resources.

 

True. But it's not an issue in a well run business, with good user telemetry and good monetization design practices, as you build to appeal to a broad base of players. Further, you have the opportunity with good telemetry on the player base to tune to meet player demands. Further, you can tweak knobs and test the tuning to see how far player demand goes.

 

It's good business. Other MMO producers have proven the model and Bioware is adapting the model to this MMO property. And doing well IMO.

 

Sure it's pissing off some of the old guard subscriber only customers.. but they are not where the market force lies looking forward for an MMO like SWTOR. They are a segment of the market, but not a growing segment. They don't get to wag the dog anymore.

[Andryah]

I just want new class content rather than a Teddy Bear following me around.

 

I understand. You have a niche requirement, let's be honest about that. And we can even say that it's Biowares fault.. for making great story as an integral part of the MMO at launch. They have said they are moving in a different direction on story now.

 

Guess what.. you are a segment of the player base, NOT THE player base. If you did represent THE player base.. and where the majority of the business lays.. then we would be seeing new class story content. They are not stupid... they are in business to be successful. If you personally represented success at the million player level.. they would be all over story content. But the reality is.. this is a casual broad appeal style MMO.. and it must cater to a wide and diverse audience of players. It's not a niche MMO. It cannot please everyone.

 

As for "Teddy Bear"... a lot of people are looking forward to this companion. Have you already run all the class stories to completion on all classes? If not.. roll a new character and take "Teddy" with you... Or don't. The choice is yours.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Andryah

[KimbeFett]

It's good business. Other MMO producers have proven the model and Bioware is adapting the model to this MMO property. And doing well IMO.

 

Sure it's pissing off some of the old guard subscriber only customers.. but they are not where the market force lies looking forward for an MMO like SWTOR. They are a segment of the market, but not a growing segment. They don't get to wag the dog anymore.

 

But who benefits from this model? Do you actually think it is the player?

 

The old model was, Build a Good Enough Game that everyone will want to play it and keep playing it (Maybe design it to be addictive? This is where evil companies step in)

 

The new model is, build a game that requires you to spend your money on micro-transactions; ideally without realizing how much you are spending (This is why there aren't dollar amounts on purchases rather they use the in-game currency; detachment from the cost; and smaller cost things are better, lots of small things add up but most people don't bother counting them)

 

I am not one of the veterans you loath who wants you to have UO style death penalties (tho it sure was fun robbing someones house in UO back in the day... lol)

 

I just prefer a model where the emphasis was on good game design; where the game is fun regardless of how much cash you had in your wallet (or time you had available). A game designed for players not for taking the money of people.

Edited July 4, 2013 by KimbeFett

[Andryah]

But who benefits from this model?

 

Everyone with an open mind benefits. It's both win-win AND the_way the entire MMO market is moving. There is no stopping it. If you are unable or unwilling to adapt.. then you will find no MMOs to play in the future.

 

There are many reasons why MMOs are moving away from subscriber only production... but the reasons why are unimportant. That's where it is going. You are either along for the journey.. or you are not.

 

I'm old school myself. I prefer and will apply a subscription to any MMO I play. If there is a lifetime option.. I always buy it. But I also have no objection to a freemium business model and enjoy the extension that It brings to the genre. I am also pragmatic and understand that the market has changed and I either change with it or let go of playing MMOs.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Andryah

[KimbeFett]

I understand. You have a niche requirement.

This game was built for my niche requirement

 

From the swtor faq

"What makes Star Wars: The Old Republic unique?

 

Traditionally, MMOs are built on three pillars: exploration, combat, and progression. At BioWare and LucasArts, we believe most MMOs ignore an important fourth pillar: story. Our mission is to create the best story-driven games in the world, and we believe that the compelling, interactive storylines in The Old Republic are a significant innovation in the MMO genre."

 

http://www.swtor.com/info/faq

[Andryah]

This game was built for my niche requirement

 

Apparently not.. because you are complaining that it's not meeting your needs/wants and is moving in a direction you disagree with.

[KimbeFett]

Everyone with an open mind benefits. It's both win-win AND the_way the entire MMO market is moving. There is no stopping it. If you are unable or unwilling to adapt.. then you will find no MMOs to play in the future.

 

There are many reasons why MMOs are moving away from subscriber only production... but the reasons why are unimportant. That's where it is going. You are either along for the journey.. or you are not.

 

LOL; So you would prefer this model to a model based off simply good game design?

 

Just be honest;

 

2 options (subscription ISNT one of them)

 

(A) Micro-transactions required to have fun

 

(B) Game is fun regardless

 

Which do you pick?

 

Who here is actually the elitist if you picked (A)? Seems like anyone picking (A) just wants to be able to flex their disposable income (a term from the western world that I despise by the way...)

 

Money I spend in Childrens Aid in Africa Each Month: 60$ (not much I know I am not as rich as some of you who can drop 250 a month on this game)

Money I spend on SWTORs CM : 0$

 

There are better places to drop your cash