Do something about the operative healers NOW

[Zunayson]

if DDs don't know they have more then 2 skills + interrupt, it might as well take 25 of them to kill a healer.

lack of brains in 79% of DD community is not reason to nerf.

 

^^^^This. There is absolutely no way that the <30% free heal out dpses 2 DPS. Ever. Eventually his hots will run out, reapplying it will kill him b/c he didn't use surgical probe.

[mulzii]

personally, i don't want to see them nerfed into the ground, but i would like to see something, anything, that gives a dps something to interupt to give us a fighting chance. And to have the op have to use energy.

 

When fighting the other healing classes, its a tough battle if they are good, but at least a combination of cc's and interupts at least give a fighting chance to kill them eventually. Against an OP, they immediately negate all your interupts, as there is nothing to interupt. so you have to rely completely on cc's. Against that, ops have all their cc's, stealth, healths, def cooldowns, etc.

 

I'd like to have something to interupt to give a chance to finish them off. Thats what makes to other healers at least semi balanced. If they doubled/tripled the energy cost on the roll, and increased the enrgy needed for all instant casts, maybe that would balance it out without effecting scrappers and other healers much..

[SpaniardInfinity]

So judging by your trolling, er...statement, is that you want the Operative to lose total viability as a healer class? If your solution is to make it to where they can't be a healer class anymore because its be "destroyed", what's the point in having healers at all?

 

Don't mind him -- most of us career Mercenaries/Commandos are just jaded. You see, they already did exactly what he was insinuating to Commando/Merc healers in Patch 1.2. The class has pretty much been universally considered the worst healer since then. Said another way, they destroyed them and most would say they have lost their total viability as a healer class.

 

PS - Two wrongs don't make a right (and there are much better approaches to balancing than the overkill nerfing in 1.2), but I'd be lying if I said a part of me wouldn't feel vindicated if Scoundrel/Op healers got nerfed to the degree of Commando/Merc. At this point they have the highest output, high burst with short cooldown, easy to build procs, are instant and thus immune to interrupts, can heal from cover preventing some gap closers, foolproof resource management, very good kiting capacity, sublte but strong defensives on relatively short CD, stealth, vanish, plenty of CC, smuggle, and their roll. Sages and Commandos both have distinct weaknesses (glass cannon and group healing, respectively), Scoundrels really don't have one and that should change.

Edited July 2, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity

[Atramar]

personally, i don't want to see them nerfed into the ground, but i would like to see something, anything, that gives a dps something to interupt to give us a fighting chance. And to have the op have to use energy.

 

When fighting the other healing classes, its a tough battle if they are good, but at least a combination of cc's and interupts at least give a fighting chance to kill them eventually. Against an OP, they immediately negate all your interupts, as there is nothing to interupt. so you have to rely completely on cc's. Against that, ops have all their cc's, stealth, healths, def cooldowns, etc.

 

I'd like to have something to interupt to give a chance to finish them off. Thats what makes to other healers at least semi balanced. If they doubled/tripled the energy cost on the roll, and increased the enrgy needed for all instant casts, maybe that would balance it out without effecting scrappers and other healers much..

 

make one. learn him. kill them.

was about to write a wall of text on 'how ti kill op/scoundrel healer', but it would be a waste.

one semi good dps will shut him down, two will kill him. guarded healer is not equal to one person. guarded healer is him+tank = 2 people, so there is no reason why one dps should kill guarded healer.

2 healers cross healing is not one healer to kill, it's again, 2 people. 2 dps will shut down 2 healers. there is no reason why one dps should shut down 2 healers by him self.

all healers have their escapes. Ops strong side is mobility and hots (which will not heal focus target). if they kill mobility, they will up something else.

 

operatives total healing numbers come from aoe heal and sprayed hots, it's not realy stopping anyone from dying, it just looks good.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Atramar

[Mookind]

make one. learn him. kill them.

was about to write a wall of text on 'how ti kill op/scoundrel healer', but it would be a waste.

one semi good dps will shut him down, two will kill him. guarded healer is not equal to one person. guarded healer is him+tank = 2 people, so there is no reason why one dps should kill guarded healer.

2 healers cross healing is not one healer to kill, it's again, 2 people. 2 dps will shut down 2 healers. there is no reason why one dps should shut down 2 healers by him self.

all healers have their escapes. Ops strong side is mobility and hots (which will not heal focus target). if they kill mobility, they will up something else.

 

operatives total healing numbers come from aoe heal and sprayed hots, it's not realy stopping anyone from dying, it just looks good.

 

LOL some one has clearly never been in a competitive match. Op heals blow why run em ? lol

 

I agree with some of your other points, but the idea that op healers don't have any burst is just *********** stupid. If you as an op healer are still spamming hots as some one is dying you are doing it wrong. They have surgical probe............And stacking every hot you have on some one then spamming surgical probe into them is some of the best single target healing that can be done in this game. And there is only one abil to int..................

[Cretinus]

make one. learn him. kill them.

was about to write a wall of text on 'how ti kill op/scoundrel healer', but it would be a waste.

one semi good dps will shut him down, two will kill him. guarded healer is not equal to one person. guarded healer is him+tank = 2 people, so there is no reason why one dps should kill guarded healer.

2 healers cross healing is not one healer to kill, it's again, 2 people. 2 dps will shut down 2 healers. there is no reason why one dps should shut down 2 healers by him self.

all healers have their escapes. Ops strong side is mobility and hots (which will not heal focus target). if they kill mobility, they will up something else.

 

Like most scouperatives, you're trying to turn this discussion into a discussion about healers in general and then you'll provide us with some indication as how to kill a sorc or a merc healer.

The breaking news is that nobody is complaining that he can't kill or shut down a sorc or a merc healer. Check the forums. People know how to do this, they know how to cc, they know how to interrupt and they're aware that a guarded healer, or 2 cross healers is actually 2 players.

Nevertheless, people keep complaining about scoundrel/operative healers. To kill or shut down one of these, be it a guarded one or a cross healed one, is not the same as to kill or to shut down a sorc or a merc under the same conditions. It's rather much, much, much more difficult. In many cases, if he's guarded or being cross healed, it's even nearly impossible without a team effort that won't leave enough people left for achieving the WZs objectives.

Not because of the roll, not because of the uninterruptable instants, not because of stealth, not because of the absurd energy management, not because of filling his resolve bar at high speed due to hard ccs being the only possible way of interrupting him, not because of him having enough cc to keep the whole WZ stuck in place - but because of the combination of all these together. And this is what needs to be looked at.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Cretinus

[DimeStax]

Like most scouperatives, you're trying to turn this discussion into a discussion about healers in general and then you'll provide us with some indication as how to kill a sorc or a merc healer.

The breaking news is that nobody is complaining that he can't kill or shut down a sorc or a merc healer. Check the forums. People know how to do this, they know how to cc, they know how to interrupt and they're aware that a guarded healer, or 2 cross healers is actually 2 players.

Nevertheless, people keep complaining about scoundrel/operative healers. To kill or shut down one of these, be it a guarded one or a cross healed one, is not the same as to kill or to shut down a sorc or a merc under the same conditions. It's rather much, much, much more difficult. In many cases it's even nearly impossible without a team effort that won't leave enough people left for achieving the WZs objectives.

Not because of the roll, not because of the uninterruptable instants, not because of stealth, not because of the absurd energy management, not because of filling his resolve bar at high speed due to hard ccs being the only possible way of interrupting him, not because of him having enough cc to keep the whole WZ stuck in place - but because of the combination of all these together. And this is what needs to be looked at.

 

This ^.

[Atramar]

LOL some one has clearly never been in a competitive match. Op heals blow why run em ? lol

 

I agree with some of your other points, but the idea that op healers don't have any burst is just *********** stupid. If you as an op healer are still spamming hots as some one is dying you are doing it wrong. They have surgical probe............And stacking every hot you have on some one then spamming surgical probe into them is some of the best single target healing that can be done in this game. And there is only one abil to int..................

 

I didn't say they can't burst,, I said that end numbers are being used as a reason to nerf. just like big damage numbers are epeen boost to some people. end numbers in argument 'but but, same skilled op can have 20% more total healing on end game then merc healer, nerf nerf' are invalid.

 

Like most scouperatives, you're trying to turn this discussion into a discussion about healers in general and then you'll provide us with some indication as how to kill a sorc or a merc healer.

The breaking news is that nobody is complaining that he can't kill or shut down a sorc or a merc healer. Check the forums. People know how to do this, they know how to cc, they know how to interrupt and they're aware that a guarded healer, or 2 cross healers is actually 2 players.

Nevertheless, people keep complaining about scoundrel/operative healers. To kill or shut down one of these, be it a guarded one or a cross healed one, is not the same as to kill or to shut down a sorc or a merc under the same conditions. It's rather much, much, much more difficult. In many cases, if he's guarded or being cross healed, it's even nearly impossible without a team effort that won't leave enough people left for achieving the WZs objectives.

Not because of the roll, not because of the uninterruptable instants, not because of stealth, not because of the absurd energy management, not because of filling his resolve bar at high speed due to hard ccs being the only possible way of interrupting him, not because of him having enough cc to keep the whole WZ stuck in place - but because of the combination of all these together. And this is what needs to be looked at.

 

 

again, make one, learn one, kill one. Operatives and scoundrels are my favorite targets when I play dps. why? becose slowed operative is a dead operative. (also, I knew me saying 'how to kill an operative' will be a waste of time, sigh..)

Edited July 2, 2013 by Atramar

[Cretinus]

(also, I knew me saying 'how to kill an operative' will be a waste of time, sigh..)

 

Well, enlighten us please. With something more than an empty l2p or "make one, learn one, kill one". And please not with banalities like "use CC", cause as I said above, people know how to kill a sorc or a merc. It's an operative that we want to kill.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Cretinus

[Atramar]

Well, enlighten us please. With something more than l2p or "make one, play one". And please not with banalities like "use CC", cause as I said above, people know how to kill a sorc or a merc. It's an operative that we want to kill.

 

just for fun...

 

 

nope

[Boch]

Dear BW please revert pyrotechs back to pre 1.2 status and when people call for nerfs just reply with "make one, learn one, kill one." Thank you. Edited July 2, 2013 by Boch

[PerinnAybara]

Don't mind him -- most of us career Mercenaries/Commandos are just jaded. You see, they already did exactly what he was insinuating to Commando/Merc healers in Patch 1.2. The class has pretty much been universally considered the worst healer since then. Said another way, they destroyed them and most would say they have lost their total viability as a healer class.

 

PS - Two wrongs don't make a right (and there are much better approaches to balancing than the overkill nerfing in 1.2), but I'd be lying if I said a part of me wouldn't feel vindicated if Scoundrel/Op healers got nerfed to the degree of Commando/Merc. At this point they have the highest output, high burst with short cooldown, easy to build procs, are instant and thus immune to interrupts, can heal from cover preventing some gap closers, foolproof resource management, very good kiting capacity, sublte but strong defensives on relatively short CD, stealth, vanish, plenty of CC, smuggle, and their roll. Sages and Commandos both have distinct weaknesses (glass cannon and group healing, respectively), Scoundrels really don't have one and that should change.

 

Darnit Spaniard, you're not supposed to give the jig up.

[Qaoz]

just for fun...

 

 

nope

 

You just rendered your opinion on the matter worthless. Good job.

[mulzii]

again, make one, learn one, kill one. Operatives and scoundrels are my favorite targets when I play dps. why? becose slowed operative is a dead operative. (also, I knew me saying 'how to kill an operative' will be a waste of time, sigh..)

 

You must play some very bad ops. When i play my op healer, if i see anyone try to 1v1 me, i can usually keep myself alive AND at least 1 of teammate or 2. No way 1 dps shuts me down completely. Yeah, i may have to heal myself for a bit and neglect the team, but they still wont kill me. In fact, i cannot remember the last time i died where it wasnt a 4v1 type of thing on my op. And i suck as a healer, but i know how to kite, as scrapper is my forte so to speak.

 

But i can say this: when playing my healing sorc, i always have to worry about interupts, ccs, energy and dmg aganst. On my OP, i can eliminate the interupts and energy completely and not worry at all about them. I never, ever watch my energy bar since 2.0 and there's only really one thing to interupt, and most people cant nail it if i pop it intelligently anyway. So as an op, i just worry about ccs, which there are only a few and i have stealth, purge, anti-cc to deal with many of them.

And i have my own cc's to counter any over foolishness.

 

Now granted, in regular WZs, i've seen some ops that are still learning how to kite, and they make 'easy kills'. Some stand around thinking they can tank, etc. But a true op healer, who played scrapper at some point and was force to learn to kite and kite good to do anything pre-2.0, will be next to impossible to kill 1v1....

[Atramar]

You just rendered your opinion on the matter worthless. Good job.

 

I already gave everything needed. if I'm being ignored, why keep giving tips to people who refuse to listen?

Mind of the thread is already set, nothing will change that.

[DimeStax]

I already gave everything needed. if I'm being ignored, why keep giving tips to people who refuse to listen?

Mind of the thread is already set, nothing will change that.

 

What's your RWZ rating and what class do you play? What's your name? What's your server? What guild do you play for? Let's establish some credibility for you.

[Cretinus]

I already gave everything needed. if I'm being ignored, why keep giving tips to people who refuse to listen?

Mind of the thread is already set, nothing will change that.

 

You didn't give sh.it. All you said were some empty "l2 focus" and "l2 cc" lines which describe what everybody fighting a healer will do anyway. Problem is that it only works against sorcs and mercs. The ominous tactics against scouperative healers that every good player apparently knows, but bads refuse to learn remains mysterious and unspoken, as always in threads like this.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Cretinus

[ObiJuanShenobi]

You didn't give sh.it. All you said were some empty "l2 focus" and "l2 cc" lines which describe what everybody fighting a healer will do anyway. Problem is that it only works against sorcs and mercs. The ominous tactics against scouperative healers that every good player apparently knows, but bads refuse to learn remains mysterious and unspoken, as always in threads like this.

 

Dude, you can kill an Op easy if you know how to kill them. Learn the Op class, learn your own class. My Op healer puts out very good heals and I keep my mates up well. I boss pug WZ's with 600-1mil heals and hardly no teammate deaths. But you know what? Everytime I come across a good premade or go into RWZ's, I come across pro's that ACTUALLY KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE GAME and it's all I can do to not die a quick death. When an OP healer comes across people that know their own class, knows how to focus, knows how to cc, and knows how to kill them, we are the same as everyone else and it proves to me that the classes in the game are way more balanced than people think. It doesn't take much to make us useless to our teammates if you just learn how to focus us and force us to heal ourselves instead...just stop being lazy and do it.

 

Can we be tweaked a little bit to give a slight edge back to the dummies out there? Sure. The new roll ability is, IMO, unneccassary to people like me who can stay alive just fine without it.