DD while healing, what's your take?

[Yazka]

Hi,

 

First of all, this post is mainly from PvE perspective. PvP healing is a lot more situational.

 

I'm interested in hearing your opinions on dealing damage while healing. Naturally it's only an option when incoming damage allows it and it doesn't hamper healer's resources. But even then, it seems to split players.

 

I, for one, always prefer to DD as a healer. I can abstain if it causes agitation but I have more fun if I can use my class to the fullest. As operative, I usually can use Explosive Probe and Backstab on cooldown and Shiv (which gives a tactical advantage) is a no-brainer. I always try to use Orbital Strike (since it deals oh-so-much pain) but long cast may prevent it at times. Because I itemize for mostly same things as a real DD (except accuracy), I do significant amount of damage with my skills.

 

Now, this may not come for free. I aim to keep everybody at 80%+ health and tank near (but not at) 100%. Overhealing feels a waste and that GCD could've been used to damage the enemies and shorten the encounter thus limiting the total amount of incoming damage. For the same reason I use my stun (Debilitate) and aoe mez (Flashbang) on cooldown.

 

This all assumes of course that healer knows the content, damaging while playing new content is risky and liable to get people killed. But we have only so much content to know and I can safely say I know the pulls.

 

My main is a tank so I do know the flipside of the coin. As a tank, I don't like it if I'm constantly under 50% health as I have to use my cooldowns outside of burst damage phases. But I do consider my HP to be a buffer for the healer. Me dipping lower at times is the natural order of things.

 

Please share your thoughts. I do feel like I'm in the minority, both in condoning healer DD and doing that as a healer.

 

-Y

[Xanatex]

I mainly play a Jug tank, which I've been playing since launch, so I know a lot from the tanking perspective. If my hp is fine and the group is doing well, (which I do pay attention to) then I love a healer who helps dps. Now, in the past few months I've been playing a lot of other toons, mainly a merc and a sorc. I love dps on them, but there have been several times in FP's where I switched to heals, for various reasons. Now I may not be the best healer out there, but I know the game and all very well, so I was able to effectively throw in dps between healing. It helped a lot, in fact in some lowbie fp's it made the difference between beating a boss or not. So if I can do it as an inexperienced healer bc I know the fights so well, then yea, I def think most healers should do so when situation allows it. Makes it a lot faster and nicer.

[Atramar]

I preffer not to.. even if every one is on their top.

unless it's a weak mob who dps missed on their race 'who will kill his elite mob first' that I can finish in 3 gcd...

from operative/scoundrel perspective*

 

you never know what's gonna happen, some one can pull, or be KB to other group... or tank will not wait and jump right after last mob is dead.

you won't make much difference.

 

if I have 15 seconds for my self while every one is HoTted and max hp, I preffer to grap a sip of juice or scratch my self...

[NoFishing]

In content that I consider to be easy, I will DPS *a lot* as a sage healer. Not so much at the beginning of trash pulls, when it is likely the tank or a DPS may take a lot of damage...but definitely towards the end of them. Sometimes the best heal you have is an AoE attack that finishes off the pack.

 

And if there are weak mobs hitting me, I see no reason why I shouldn't hit back. I am always hoping for a DPS to complain about that, so I can tell him to kill the weaks so I don't have to. :-)

 

But helping the fights end as quickly as possible is something most people appreciate. As long as you are not constantly lagging behind to regen energy (and delaying the next pull), or dropping people, keep on doing what you are doing.

[Sarielle]

I DPS when it's painfully obvious not a soul is in trouble, IE, everyone is pretty well topped off and most things are dead. I have 2 insta-cast DoTs (one with a snare, which I especially use on a mob whacking on me) that I use frequently because I'm not going to be stuck in a long cast, and I throw pebbles to help finish mobs off as we're mopping up because it's very energy efficient.

 

I don't do it if I'm under 60-75% force, though, because I don't want to be low for the next encounter. I prefer not to have to channel to regain force except in unusual circumstances -- and if the group is moving at a fast clip, I'm often not given the chance to anyways, heh.

 

Once accuracy becomes important (just level 34) I figure I'll be missing a lot anyways, so I'd rather save my force for what I'm good at.

[Darth_Dreselus]

While it is okay to throw in some DPS when things are going well I hate being 'required' to do it just to meet a tight enrage. This is mainly from a pre-nerf NiM DG perspective so now a moot point but it still annoys me when I have to juggle DPS and Heals in a fight which gives no leeway to either. EV Council was fine as it was designed with a healer in mind (low HP mob with bursty damage). Killing spheres on Operator is also fine as they die in a few hits and I tend to help out with DPS on the adds a lot (not too difficult to heal) and in fact having less of the adds running around actually makes the healing easier.

 

So I guess kinda split, outside of progression runs I will throw in some DoTs or a few short DPS phases (or outright respec mid fight on P3 Olok) as healing can get quite boring but in progression I kinda have my hands full and requiring the healers to DPS there is a bit strange (I do not mean making up for bad DPS, this is in context of 4 fully capable 2800+ DPS).

 

It also varies based on class. Scoundrels are great at casting Flyby, throwing Sab Charge, Vital Shot or Even Blaster Whip to get a UH to heal with and then just Diagnostic the difference up. Sages can also burn through a significant part of their Force and then resume healing to get it back up. Not sure about Mandos.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Darth_Dreselus

[Garretor]

Hi,

 

I've been levelling a sorc (heals) alongside my friend's Jugg (tank). We are both pretty well geared, and have been running a LOT of fp's.

 

I tend to find I can't do a lot of DD the first one or 2 times I run a new fp (as I don't know the fight, and early on in it's level range) - but after that I find I'm at at 100% force and not having to do that much outside of boss fights (the tank has great HP and mitigation for his level!)

 

Therefore, I spend a lot of the time throwing out AOE damage, putting DOT's on bosses, and in certain encounters, might only use 2 healing spells, and dps the rest of the time.

 

Think it depends on the encounter/flashpoint, and your group composition. But ultimately I like the diversity on offer, being able to dps and heal at the same time, whilst not putting the group at a disadvantage

[Satedbuffalo]

I'm interested in hearing your opinions on dealing damage while healing. Naturally it's only an option when incoming damage allows it and it doesn't hamper healer's resources. But even then, it seems to split players.

 

I will rarely/never deal damage while in a lolstomp raid or FP with pugs. In the most difficult content, if we're hitting enrage timers, I'll assist as much as I can. There are some fights (*cough* Dreadguard *cough*) where healer dps is pretty important.

 

Learning how to dps efficiently in a heal spec is something healers should do.

[Sarielle]

Learning how to dps efficiently in a heal spec is something healers should do.

 

Got any tips for sages? I'm definitely not at the level where it matters yet but I like to do my homework. IE, what spells are recommended for this? I assume your quick-cast DoTs + efficient channel, but I'd like more insight.

[Toraak]

I personally will DPS some in FP's when people look good, and not a lot of damage is going out. While saying that, I do not dps at all in Operations as a healer. (the 1 exception to that is the 2 adds at the very beginning of Operator 9 to take them down faster before the blue channel begins).

[Cleet_Xia]

I've long advocated that healers are more than capable of signifigant dps at the expense of a much smaller amount of healing. And there are plenty of reasons why it's a good thing to be good at.

 

1) Dead mobs don't do damage. Dpsing lowers the need for healing.

2) Waiting for someone to get hurt isn't as much fun, if we have the time & resources ~ we should use them.

3) Waiting for damage to heal doesn't develop the tight healing rotations needed for more difficult content.

4) Healers with solid dps play don't need anyone to rescue them from a trash mob.

5) A good player in heal spec can still do more damage than a bad one in a dps spec. ~ and still throw out a heal or two.

6) It promotes awareness of what the boss is doing, and develops good target management skills.

 

That said, whether or not I dps during a fight just depends on the rate at which damage is coming in, how much skill my teammates have, and how long I have before the next burst damage phase begins.

 

Little things Sages can do once they've taken off the "I must heal" blinders, that make a big difference

1) Thowing out weaken mind &/or Project on the boss while repositioning with Speed.

2) Casting Slow on the melee mob that has turned to focus on a ranged dps.

3) Using Force Wave to plant a mob within an AoE that a teammate is about to lay down.

4) Using Force Quake to immobilize trash & help dps teammates power them all down.

5) Using Stun & Interrupt to mitigate damage when everyone else is on CD.

6) Using Cleanse to remove a snare from a melee tank who'se gap closer is on CD.

7) Using Project to stun a weak for a few seconds & prevent their next attack or two.

8) Using Rescue to lower the threat of a dps who has just out aggroed the tank.

9) Using TK Throw to lay out big hits ~ when the situation permits. (never be afraid to end it early to lay out a heal)

10) Using any attack to finish off a gravely injured mob that no one else is attacking.

 

Scoundrels/ Commandos & all the mirrors have the abilities to do similar things.

 

Mind Crush isn't particularly useful to the healing Sage imho. It can be used to amp up the rate of dps when playing solo. But while grouped, it can be tough to find a situation where time permits the long cast ~ without a sacrifice in healing.

[Darth_Dreselus]

Got any tips for sages? I'm definitely not at the level where it matters yet but I like to do my homework. IE, what spells are recommended for this? I assume your quick-cast DoTs + efficient channel, but I'd like more insight.

 

My go-to rotation when in healing spec is

 

Mind Crush-Weaken Mind-TKT-Dis-Dis-TKT-Dis-Dis and repeat. I try to avoid using too much Project outside of killing blows, PvP and when I know it will stun standards as it eats up a lot of Force but still useful when moving or burst is needed. Sadly DPS is completely bad for Force so throw in some Healing Trances (even if they overheal) so you get stacks for your Noble Sacrifice. Quake and Wave are situational but do not be afraid to use them (just don't knock enemies away from the tank after he has put them in a neat pile)

[Sarielle]

Thanks for the tips guys

[Atramar]

[...]

3) Using Force Wave to plant a mob within an AoE that a teammate is about to lay down.

6) Using Cleanse to remove a snare from a melee tank who'se gap closer is on CD.

10) Using any attack to finish off a gravely injured mob that no one else is attacking.

[...]

 

3. just please make sure you are not saving tank this way.

I love nothing more then a healer who does aoe damage moving mobs away from my aoe threat dama

 

6. this should be printed to anyone who uses more then 5 skills up in healers tree... I mean really, how many times I've seen people going low on Athiss when healer says 'I don't cleanse, it's easier for me to heal it thro'... and I never ever seen clense on mandalorians after that bloody droid placed 70% slow on me.... instead of cleanse, healer is dpsing

on contrary, when I run healer and I cleanse most things, I get whispers 'damn, didn't know you could do that, last time it was different' etc.

 

10. that's just dps being stupid..damn that's annoying.

[Cleet_Xia]

2) Casting Slow on the melee mob that has turned to focus on a ranged dps.

3) Using Force Wave to plant a mob within an AoE that a teammate is about to lay down.

6) Using Cleanse to remove a snare from a melee tank who'se gap closer is on CD.

10) Using any attack to finish off a gravely injured mob that no one else is attacking.

 

Additional notes:

2) the snare from slow, weaken mind (if specced), & TK throw stack ~ you can slow a melee mob to about 25% of their normal speed if you cast "Weaken Mind>Slow>TK throw in that order. This can give the tank time to regain control, or slow the mob so severely that it will die long before it damages yourself or a dps. Slow + the slow from weaken mind wins huttball matches almost by itself.

 

3) yeah- don't knock mobs away from the tank.........

 

6) Should have made this #1 on the list - if you're not cleansing ~ don't DPS. This solves a lot of problems with tanks losing agro, and protects the dps players from taking damage that way. It also mitigates large amounts of damage if you get your cleanse in just after the effect is applied. It's also worth it to remove armor debuffs on the tank.

 

10) yeah... that situation shouldn't ever happen. But players lose track of targets, & weaks can be knocked around hard without ever actually being the intended target. But the way the game is structured the weaker oponents do a disproportionate amount of dps. 3 weaks dps harder than 2 strongs or 1 elite ~ in most cases. So in a "six pack" with that structure ~ the weaks are usually doing almost half of the incoming dps, but have much less than half of the hit points of the pack.

 

Always follow a good firing order - focus on the weakest mob first & avoid the tanked target until all other mobs are dead. If its done this way a good tank can hold agro on the elite with only 2 hits, and then tank the strongs. That equals dps not needed much healing at all ~ and the healer getting to spend a whole lot of time dpsing.

[NoFishing]

Got any tips for sages? I'm definitely not at the level where it matters yet but I like to do my homework. IE, what spells are recommended for this? I assume your quick-cast DoTs + efficient channel, but I'd like more insight.

 

Mind Crush+Weaken Mind every time Mind Crush comes off CD, Project if you have lots of force, then alternate Tk Throw and Disturbance. Oh, and Force Quake if there are at least 3 things to hit it with, but it will drain your force rapidly.

 

Project hits hard, but is major force hog, so I tend to use it as a "killing blow" or if I have lots of force available.

 

Also beware of pushback, which is a severe problem if things are hitting you. It can cut your Tk Throw damage in half, making it a bit of a force hog as well.

 

Bottom line is you have to be somewhat flexible in your rotation depending on the fight. As an example, for killing irregularities in the Terror From Beyond fight, I will start off with a Mind Crush + Weaken Mind. They have not started hitting me yet, so there is no pushback on MC, and WM is instant. Now it has started hitting me so I use project, which is also instant and immune to pushback. Then I'll just spam TkT and Disturbance on it until it dies.

[Atramar]

apart from some aoe on trash which clearly saves the hassle,

 

my fellow healers

 

don't DD. that makes DPSs lazy.

 

lazy dps is worthless dps.

[Ryluk_Shouja]

apart from some aoe on trash which clearly saves the hassle,

 

my fellow healers

 

don't DD. that makes DPSs lazy.

 

lazy dps is worthless dps.

 

If dpsers are lazy...kick them. If I am doing my job better than a dps is doing his, then you are just asking for a headache, particularly in raids...